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Deadline Deals; PIT-NYI, PIT-CAR

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Old
01-16-2011, 12:43 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
It isn't a lousy return but Snow might feel it's worth the risk to keep negotiating until July 1st (though if Moulson's agent's minimum price is more than Snow is willing to pay then he should probably trade him and see how the market sets Moulson's value on July 1st). Islanders do have a lot of unproven prospect but Jeffrey is outscoring all the ones in Bridgeport and if he beats out one of Islanders prospect then they can flip that prospect for another asset.
A 25-30 goal nhl scorer in exchange for a 2 way center prospect,who isn't pushing Tavares,Bailey,Grabner,KO,Neilsen or Comeau out of the top 6 is a lousy return.

And his outscoring potential 3rd liners like Martin/Joensuu at the ahl level means little.The Isles don't want those lower line players for their scoring,but for their physical presence and hitting.They are counting on Nino and Petrov to come in and push for top 6 spots and to help the team's scoring.I don't consider Jeffrey to be an upgrade on either of those two.

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01-16-2011, 12:44 PM
  #52
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60+ point winger's under 30 are worth more than a grinder and a second rounder from a playoff team. And oh yeah he makes less than 2 million this year.

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01-16-2011, 12:46 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
actually no im not, I just dont like being lied to by someone I know knows better. Sid is a very intelligent guy and he made a comment that he knows I know is false.

I worked in very close contact for 7 years with the NHL and I have many professional acquaintances with people who know better,
I dont know Dustin Jeffery from a hole in the ground but when a professional tells me he organizational filler i believe them, because they are paid to do a job
Well see, here's a professional who might know a little more about the subject giving his rankings and opinion:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10359/1113353-61.stm

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01-16-2011, 12:50 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
You're incapable of having a discussion without insults. I don't even know why I bother with you, since you don't actually refute anything. You either resort to just rude name calling, or making up stuff like knowing Scotty Bowman or something.

So stop with the "I was talking to a scout" nonsense. You always try to make it sound like you're connected, when all you are is just like one of us fans whose only connection to an NHL scout/player/GM is when they signed your autographed jersey for you.

To enlighten you, for starters, Jeffrey hasn't cracked the Pens' line up because they are deep at the position he plays. Maybe you've heard of guys named Crosby, Malkin and Staal? There's also Adams on the fourth line, who fills a role that you don't even want Jeffrey filling (ie. fourth line plugger).

Second, with the injury to Staal earlier in the year, that left a spot open at center. The choice was between Jeffrey and Letestu for that spot. A combination of Letestu having a strong camp and the fact Letestu was subject to waivers, while Jeffrey could be sent down without having to pass through waivers and risk getting claimed, made the choice an easy one.

Third, Jeffrey's not going to be a star. But to say he's garbage is beyond ridiculous. He's got the potential to be a solid 2nd/3rd line tweener who can play both ends of the rink. To say otherwise just further proves you're lack of knowledge on the subject (and bringing up these make believe scouts you want everyone to think you know doesn't change that).
sid im tempted to have him come on here to show you up, but I'll just let shero prove my point, how much do you wanna bet shero resigns Jeffery when his contract is up?

and sideline, neilsen wasnt even signed til he was 22, he was with the Isles 6 months later . Jeffrey has been with the penguins organization for 3 years and is still trying to crack the lineup.

at one time he was highly rated but isnt thought so now

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01-16-2011, 12:53 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
There have been a few times in the past,where Snow's gotten criticism for not trading impending ufas he'd shopped.I know he let Satan walk.I think he also shopped,but ended up letting Ruslan Fedentko walk.

Is it better to take a lousy return for Moulson or keep his rights,negoiating right up until July 1st?

and the isles have a glut of unproven prospects who will be fighting for a limited number of roster spots.Snow has some decisions to make as far as who to sign and who to move over the next few seasons.
Moulson's rights are going to worth even less at the UFA July 1st date, they'll max out at the deadline where he'll garner a prospect + pick where as at July 1st will bring back a pick only. The last part, just because they have prospects doesn't mean their better than the one(s) they would get back in return.

People are seriously underrating Jeffery here.

Pens may end up holding onto him anyways, the complete bottom six is gone save Cooke, and I'll go on a limb and say Letestu is very much resigned.

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01-16-2011, 12:55 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
Moulson's rights are going to worth even less at the UFA July 1st date, they'll max out at the deadline where he'll garner a prospect + pick where as at July 1st will bring back a pick only. The last part, just because they have prospects doesn't mean their better than the one(s) they would get back in return.

People are seriously underrating Jeffery here.

Pens may end up holding onto him anyways, the complete bottom six is gone save Cooke, and I'll go on a limb and say Letestu is very much resigned.
i wasnt questioning letestu being resigned, I was questioning Jeffery being resigned. he needs to do something to move himself up the depth chart


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01-16-2011, 01:00 PM
  #57
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bull spit, Jeffery had a 14 game trial two years ago, even getting limited time with Crosby and Malkin anf failed miserably, I dont know who youre trying to kid but you aint fooling anyone

letestu got ten games last year, Jeffery got 14 two years ago and Letestu passed him by, The pens see Jeffery as AHL filler and you know it
Jeffrey got limited time with Crosby? the whole reason he played those 14 games was because Crosby was injured. According to Dobber hockey stats, Jeffrey played less than 5 % of his time with Malkin and his biggest combo with Malkin was 1.81 % on the PK.

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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
A 25-30 goal nhl scorer in exchange for a 2 way center prospect,who isn't pushing Tavares,Bailey,Grabner,KO,Neilsen or Comeau out of the top 6 is a lousy return.

And his outscoring potential 3rd liners like Martin/Joensuu at the ahl level means little.The Isles don't want those lower line players for their scoring,but for their physical presence and hitting.They are counting on Nino and Petrov to come in and push for top 6 spots and to help the team's scoring.I don't consider Jeffrey to be an upgrade on either of those two.
An unsigned 25-30 goal scorer. Jeffrey may not push anyone out of the top 6 but he does allow Nielsen to play in the top 6 full time (Jeffrey's AHL numbers are actually better than Grabner as it happens). Jeffrey has good size and while he's not especially physical, they're are plenty of NHL bottom 6ers who aren't especially physical. Adding a bit of offensive skill to the bottom 6 is an advantage (lots of teams have 3 scoring lines) as long as the player plays a smart two way game to (which Jeffrey does). I was comparing Jeffrey's AHL scoring to the guys currently in Bridgeport (Rakhshani, Ullstrom, Figren, etc).

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01-16-2011, 01:00 PM
  #58
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Why? I get not trading him if he's willing to re-sign, but it doesn't mean a damn thing to the Islanders if someone in the East is stronger this year.
Agreed. You're cutting your nose off to spite your face if you refuse to make deals to make your team better because it might make another team better.

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01-16-2011, 01:07 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
and sideline, neilsen wasnt even signed til he was 22, he was with the Isles 6 months later . Jeffrey has been with the penguins organization for 3 years and is still trying to crack the lineup.
What's your point? That it's easier to crack into Islanders' lineup than it is to Pens lineup? Wow, I'm shocked.

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01-16-2011, 01:09 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
Moulson's rights are going to worth even less at the UFA July 1st date, they'll max out at the deadline where he'll garner a prospect + pick where as at July 1st will bring back a pick only. The last part, just because they have prospects doesn't mean their better than the one(s) they would get back in return.

People are seriously underrating Jeffery here.

Pens may end up holding onto him anyways, the complete bottom six is gone save Cooke, and I'll go on a limb and say Letestu is very much resigned.
Keeping Moulson past the trade deadline, lets the isles keep negoiating right up until July 1st.I'd rather gamble that Tavares' best friend on the team is serious, when he says he appreciates the faith the isles showed in him when signing him and that he is truthfull when he says he wants to stay.

I'd rather see Snow keep Moulson,keep pushing for that extension instead of taking a weak return.

I don't see Jeffrey pushing out the players currently in the team's top 6.I don't think he's an upgrade on the isles own forward prospects who'll be fighting for jobs in training camp.

If the Pens are able to acquire a 25-30 goal scorer and the trade chip they use is Jeffrey,then I'll tip my hat to the Pens gm.I doubt the other gm in the trade will be Snow though.

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01-16-2011, 01:10 PM
  #61
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you're underrating Jeffrey. I think his price is likely a 2nd + 4th/long shot prospect if he's being shopped so I think my offer of Jeffrey + 3rd is fair.
Dude plays in the AHL how in the hell is he worth a second.

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01-16-2011, 01:12 PM
  #62
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What's your point? That it's easier to crack into Islanders' lineup than it is to Pens lineup? Wow, I'm shocked.
no sideline was saying that Nielsen was quite old crqacking the Isles lineup. I was merely showing he wasnt signed by the Isles till he was already 22

its kind of hard to crack a teams lineup untill they have your rights

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01-16-2011, 01:15 PM
  #63
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LOL @ some Islander fans thinking Jeffrey is garbage. He'd be in the NHL on a lot of teams right now. He plays a very solid two way game and was leading the AHL in points this season for quite some time until his couple of call-ups to Pittsburgh (which he played very well and should've stuck, but like someone said before...it's a numbers game for forwards right now).

I'd prefer to keep Jeffrey. If someone ended up getting him, they're going to get a very good all-around player that's 22 years old and ready to be a solid NHLer.

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01-16-2011, 01:17 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Keeping Moulson past the trade deadline, lets the isles keep negoiating right up until July 1st.I'd rather gamble that Tavares' best friend on the team is serious, when he says he appreciates the faith the isles showed in him when signing him and that he is truthfull when he says he wants to stay.

I'd rather see Snow keep Moulson,keep pushing for that extension instead of taking a weak return.

I don't see Jeffrey pushing out the players currently in the team's top 6.I don't think he's an upgrade on the isles own forward prospects who'll be fighting for jobs in training camp.

If the Pens are able to acquire a 25-30 goal scorer and the trade chip they use is Jeffrey,then I'll tip my hat to the Pens gm.I doubt the other gm in the trade will be Snow though.
Jeffrey doesn't have to play in the top 6 though. Shero managed to get a 3 time 20 goal scorer (Ponikarovksy) for Luca Caputi so getting something decent for Dustin Jeffrey shouldn't be out of the question.

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Dude plays in the AHL how in the hell is he worth a second.
Mikkel Boedker (8th overall in 2008) spent the vast majority of last year in the AHL, do you think the Yotes would have traded him for a 2nd?

Plenty of good nhl players were playing in the AHL at the same age as Dustin Jeffrey.

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01-16-2011, 01:19 PM
  #65
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An unsigned 25-30 goal scorer. Jeffrey may not push anyone out of the top 6 but he does allow Nielsen to play in the top 6 full time (Jeffrey's AHL numbers are actually better than Grabner as it happens). Jeffrey has good size and while he's not especially physical, they're are plenty of NHL bottom 6ers who aren't especially physical. Adding a bit of offensive skill to the bottom 6 is an advantage (lots of teams have 3 scoring lines) as long as the player plays a smart two way game to (which Jeffrey does). I was comparing Jeffrey's AHL scoring to the guys currently in Bridgeport (Rakhshani, Ullstrom, Figren, etc).
Not many Isle fans are expecting Ullstrom or Rakhshani to land in the isles top 6.Figren's a prospect who's struggled for a few seasons in the AHL and I'm surprised he's still playing in Bridgeport.I thought he'd bolt back to Europe since he's had so little success in NA.


As I said,the isles are looking for 6'3 Martin and 6'3 Joensuu to add lower line physical presence.They are looking for 6'2 Nino and 6'3 Petrov to join the top 6.Pens fans think Jeffrey's got higher upside then those prospects fine.I disagree.

If the Pens get Moulson for Jeffrey,feel free to come to the Isles board and have me eat crow.It won't happen.

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01-16-2011, 01:20 PM
  #66
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no sideline was saying that Nielsen was quite old crqacking the Isles lineup. I was merely showing he wasnt signed by the Isles till he was already 22

its kind of hard to crack a teams lineup untill they have your rights
No, I was saying Matt Moulson was quite old cracking the Islanders lineup.

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01-16-2011, 01:20 PM
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i wasnt questioning letestu being resigned, I was questioning Jeffery being resigned. he needs to do something to move himself up the depth chart
You do realise that Pens have the best centre depth in the NHL? Crosby - Malkin - Staal and it's better for his development to get big minutes in the AHL than 4th line minutes at the NHL level (which he could easily handle).

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01-16-2011, 01:23 PM
  #68
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LOL @ some Islander fans thinking Jeffrey is garbage. He'd be in the NHL on a lot of teams right now. He plays a very solid two way game and was leading the AHL in points this season for quite some time until his couple of call-ups to Pittsburgh (which he played very well and should've stuck, but like someone said before...it's a numbers game for forwards right now).

I'd prefer to keep Jeffrey. If someone ended up getting him, they're going to get a very good all-around player that's 22 years old and ready to be a solid NHLer.
When exactly was that, it seems to me that corey locke whose played all of 2 more games than Jeffery has been way ahead of him all year ?

The great Jason Krog who we isles fans know all too well was ahead of him too

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01-16-2011, 01:25 PM
  #69
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no sideline was saying that Nielsen was quite old crqacking the Isles lineup. I was merely showing he wasnt signed by the Isles till he was already 22

its kind of hard to crack a teams lineup untill they have your rights
Nielsen had also played 4 full seasons in one of the best leagues in Europe before joining Islanders. While this is only Jeffrey's 3rd year as a professional.

Also you made it sound like Nielsen made the jump to NHL directly. That's just not true. He spend the majority of his first 2 seasons in North America in AHL and only became full-time NHL'er at the age of 24.

And I like how you downplay Jeffrey because he couldn't stay in the Pens' lineup as a 20 year-old in his 1st year as a professional. You know the same year the Pens won the Stanley Cup. Must be a bad prospect for not being good enough to become a key factor for a Stanley Cup winning team as a 20 year old while playing his 1st year as a professional. Yeah right. If anything it shows he's a good prospect for even getting NHL games under his belt back then. And since then Jeffrey has improved each and every year.

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01-16-2011, 01:26 PM
  #70
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Dude plays in the AHL how in the hell is he worth a second.
So do Kyle Palmieri, Dylan Olsen, and Eric Tangradi. Any of them worth a draft pick? Guys are not forever representative of where they were drafted or of the teams they played on. Sometimes they *GASP* develop when playing in development leagues!

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01-16-2011, 01:29 PM
  #71
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No, I was saying Matt Moulson was quite old cracking the Islanders lineup.
oh ok. that id agree with. but hasnt Shero said that was a mistake by the previous regime in pittsburgh and that Moulson kind of " fell through the cracks" the year he took over?

Id say Moulson was more of a penguins mistake than he was an islander one, wouldnt you?

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01-16-2011, 01:29 PM
  #72
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going back to the OP, islanders are going to do everything in their power to keep moulson here.

moulson is best friends with tavares, and even though most people think tavares wants out he wants to stay and be the face of this franchise. since JT is staying, moulson will stay as well.

if moulson does leave the island, i cant see it happening unless he's here through several more years of the same stuff thats happening here now. we should be able to sign him to a 3-year deal.

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01-16-2011, 01:36 PM
  #73
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Nielsen had also played 4 full seasons in one of the best leagues in Europe before joining Islanders. While this is only Jeffrey's 3rd year as a professional.

Also you made it sound like Nielsen made the jump to NHL directly. That's just not true. He spend the majority of his first 2 seasons in North America in AHL and only became full-time NHL'er at the age of 24.

And I like how you downplay Jeffrey because he couldn't stay in the Pens' lineup as a 20 year-old in his 1st year as a professional. You know the same year the Pens won the Stanley Cup. Must be a bad prospect for not being good enough to become a key factor for a Stanley Cup winning team as a 20 year old while playing his 1st year as a professional. Yeah right. If anything it shows he's a good prospect for even getting NHL games under his belt back then. And since then Jeffrey has improved each and every year.
no all I said was neilsen signed later, and Im not saying jeffery hasnt improved, Im just saying he's been passed by, by other prospects

Ive repeatedly said he needs to do something to be noticed again

Im just saying I wouldnt trade a 30 goal scorer for someones failed or passed over prospect

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01-16-2011, 01:37 PM
  #74
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When exactly was that, it seems to me that corey locke whose played all of 2 more games than Jeffery has been way ahead of him all year ?

The great Jason Krog who we isles fans know all too well was ahead of him too
Jeffrey was leading the AHL in scoring before his first call up if I remember right. Just because he's putting up points n the AHL doesn't mean he's automatically the next Jason Krog (who was in his last year in college at Jeffrey's current age)

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no all I said was neilsen signed later, and Im not saying jeffery hasnt improved, Im just saying he's been passed by, by other prospects

Ive repeatedly said he needs to do something to be noticed again

Im just saying I wouldnt trade a 30 goal scorer for someones failed or passed over prospect
who has passed him? Eric Tangradi? Tangradi was an early 2nd rounder and has only passed over Jeffrey because he's a natural winger. What does Jeffrey need to do to be noticed again? he's 7th in AHL scoring while playing responsible two way hockey and is the Pens first call up.

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01-16-2011, 01:42 PM
  #75
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oh ok. that id agree with. but hasnt Shero said that was a mistake by the previous regime in pittsburgh and that Moulson kind of " fell through the cracks" the year he took over?

Id say Moulson was more of a penguins mistake than he was an islander one, wouldnt you?
Technically it was Shero that let him walk, but he took over right as that off-season's roster decisions were being made so he had to defer a lot of things to the scouting staff. In hindsight giving up on him was a mistake for the Pens and for LA two seasons later. Shero has said as much.

My point was you're willing to write off a 22 year old centre as "garbage" because can't crack the deepest group of centres in the NHL. I was pointing out the irony involved because the Moulson took 4 more years and 2 more teams before he cracked an NHL roster. Clearly players can be good NHLers even if they're in the minors at 22; Moulson is just one of may guys that prove this.

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