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Dustin Penner to MTL

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Old
01-16-2011, 02:58 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
Tinordi is not an average prospect. Penner is worth the same deal that Horton was traded for and that is a mid 1st which Tinordi is. Yes, a pick can be added in like a 2nd or Edm could add another player in like Cogs or another player and Montreal can add thier 1st but 1st rounders just aren't traded that often any more.
The full deal was this:

Nathan Horton (first-line, 30 goal forward)
Greg Campbell (cheap roster player)

for

Dennis Wideman (30 point top four defender)
1st round pick
3rd round pick

Now, Penner is a bit older than Horton, but that in no way should cause the deal to drop from what Boston got to a singular late first rounder. Using the above template, a fair deal would be this:

Dustin Penner
Andrew Cogliano

for

Gorges/Wisniewski
mid 1st round pick
3rd round pick

Tinordi and a 1st is a slight underpayment if anything; there's zero justification that it's this massive gulf in value. I'd ask what Habs fans think those two could get them, but I have a feeling the answer would involve Crosby, Malkin or Stamkos.

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Old
01-16-2011, 03:15 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post

Tinordi and a 1st is a slight underpayment if anything; there's zero justification that it's this massive gulf in value. I'd ask what Habs fans think those two could get them, but I have a feeling the answer would involve Crosby, Malkin or Stamkos.
Tinordi and a 1st for a guy who has once cracked the 60pt mark and is paid 4.25 million / season? LOL


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Old
01-16-2011, 03:30 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Tinordi and a 1st for a guy who has once cracked the 60pt mark and is paid 4.25 million / season? LOL

A prospect who has taken a step back in his development and 18th overall(as it sits now) for a guy that averages 25 goals a season, and next to impossible to knock off the puck is. LOL

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Old
01-16-2011, 03:33 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Tinordi and a 1st for a guy who has once cracked the 60pt mark and is paid 4.25 million / season? LOL

A late 1st who failed to crack the WJC and appears to be a future #3/4 at best and another late first for a bona fide first-line power forward?

Tell me, just who do you think Tinordi and a 1st could fetch?

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01-16-2011, 03:38 PM
  #30
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I expect Tinordi + 1st to fetch a bonafide 60+ point producer. Not one who has reached the mark once in his career and has underperformed for the bulk of his contact.

Tinordi was drafted as a longterm project. He has all the tools to become a top shutdown d-man in the league. But for those who write him off because he didn't crack his WJHC roster clearly lack foresight. He's a good 3 years away (at least) from competing regularly in the NHL .

I get that Penner is arguably the Oilers best forward. But that doesn't mean a heck of a lot on a team that is the worst in the league 2 years running...

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Old
01-16-2011, 03:40 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
A prospect who has taken a step back in his development and 18th overall(as it sits now) for a guy that averages 25 goals a season, and next to impossible to knock off the puck is. LOL
Leblanc didn't crack the WJHC roster for Canada the year he was drafted. PK Subban didn't as well. I guess they took a step back in their development as a result!

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Old
01-16-2011, 03:56 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
If you watched the game you would of seen that Penner does have speed. They talked about that last night how he blew by Scuderi and beat him to the puck by three strides.

If he's as slow as people say he is theres no way he should have gotten the shot off here


He just looks really goofy because he's so big. A crotch rocket doing 120km/h will alway look fast than a semi doing the same
He didn't really look goofy, just not the tempo rest of team has. Doesn't seem like Penner is a total good fit for the Habs. He had some qualities but not enough considering what we have to give up to acquire Penner. I would pass on Penner

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Old
01-16-2011, 03:57 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
The full deal was this:

Nathan Horton (first-line, 30 goal forward)
Greg Campbell (cheap roster player)

for

Dennis Wideman (30 point top four defender)
1st round pick
3rd round pick

Now, Penner is a bit older than Horton, but that in no way should cause the deal to drop from what Boston got to a singular late first rounder. Using the above template, a fair deal would be this:

Dustin Penner
Andrew Cogliano

for

Gorges/Wisniewski
mid 1st round pick
3rd round pick

Tinordi and a 1st is a slight underpayment if anything; there's zero justification that it's this massive gulf in value. I'd ask what Habs fans think those two could get them, but I have a feeling the answer would involve Crosby, Malkin or Stamkos.


NO.

Penner has value for sure but wow dont get carried away. This is a guy who you couldnt give away for free less than 2 years ago and all of a sudden he is worth a high prospect and a #1? NO chance.

IMO he is worth a mid level prospect (Weber) and a 2nd. You would be lucky to get that much.

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Old
01-16-2011, 03:59 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
I expect Tinordi + 1st to fetch a bonafide 60+ point producer. Not one who has reached the mark once in his career and has underperformed for the bulk of his contact.
Assuming "bonafide" to mean "three consecutive seasons of 60+ points", here are a list of power wingers matching your criteria:

-Rick Nash
-Jarome Iginla
-Nathan Horton (close, so I'll include him)
-That's it

By all means, go to the Jackets board and pitch them Tinordi + 1st for Nash or Tinordi + 1st for Iginla. Go on, I'll wait.

Once they've succeeded in laughing you off their board, come back here and maybe re-assess what you're offering vs. what you're looking for.

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Old
01-16-2011, 04:00 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post
NO.

Penner has value for sure but wow dont get carried away. This is a guy who you couldnt give away for free less than 2 years ago and all of a sudden he is worth a high prospect and a #1? NO chance.

IMO he is worth a mid level prospect (Weber) and a 2nd. You would be lucky to get that much.
Less than two years ago he was the centerpiece for a trade for Dany Heatley. Since then, his stock has only risen.

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Old
01-16-2011, 04:02 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post
NO.

Penner has value for sure but wow dont get carried away. This is a guy who you couldnt give away for free less than 2 years ago and all of a sudden he is worth a high prospect and a #1? NO chance.
.
Once again, what's Tinordi and a 1st worth to you? Oh, and what exactly is a "high prospect"?

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01-16-2011, 04:02 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Joseppi View Post
Less than two years ago he was the centerpiece for a trade for Dany Heatley. Since then, his stock has only risen.


The last time I checked Danny Heatly was traded to San Jose.

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Old
01-16-2011, 04:05 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Kaen View Post
Tinordi with a non-Gomez salary dump coming back if you want.
I would hate to trade him, but, I agree Tinordi and maybe Montreal's 1st for our 2nd and 4th?

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Old
01-16-2011, 04:05 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Assuming "bonafide" to mean "three consecutive seasons of 60+ points", here are a list of power wingers matching your criteria:

-Rick Nash
-Jarome Iginla
-Nathan Horton (close, so I'll include him)
-That's it

By all means, go to the Jackets board and pitch them Tinordi + 1st for Nash or Tinordi + 1st for Iginla. Go on, I'll wait.

Once they've succeeded in laughing you off their board, come back here and maybe re-assess what you're offering vs. what you're looking for.

now I know you arent saying that Penner is in the same league as Iginla and Nash....

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01-16-2011, 04:05 PM
  #40
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Penner means a lot to Oilers right now, with their young players. To get him I see the Habs giving up a core player or a bunch of future.

Would the move Eller in a trade for Penner? Not even up but Eller as main component

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Old
01-16-2011, 04:07 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
The full deal was this:

Nathan Horton (first-line, 30 goal forward)
Greg Campbell (cheap roster player)

for

Dennis Wideman (30 point top four defender)
1st round pick
3rd round pick

Now, Penner is a bit older than Horton, but that in no way should cause the deal to drop from what Boston got to a singular late first rounder. Using the above template, a fair deal would be this:

Dustin Penner
Andrew Cogliano

for

Gorges/Wisniewski
mid 1st round pick
3rd round pick

Tinordi and a 1st is a slight underpayment if anything; there's zero justification that it's this massive gulf in value. I'd ask what Habs fans think those two could get them, but I have a feeling the answer would involve Crosby, Malkin or Stamkos.
Horton is a better player then Penner. So comparing what Horton got to what Penner is worth is not accurate. Penner has one season over 50 points Horton has 3. You could round up and in general consider Horton a 60 point player and Penner a 50 point player.

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Old
01-16-2011, 04:10 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Assuming "bonafide" to mean "three consecutive seasons of 60+ points", here are a list of power wingers matching your criteria:

-Rick Nash
-Jarome Iginla
-Nathan Horton (close, so I'll include him)
-That's it

By all means, go to the Jackets board and pitch them Tinordi + 1st for Nash or Tinordi + 1st for Iginla. Go on, I'll wait.

Once they've succeeded in laughing you off their board, come back here and maybe re-assess what you're offering vs. what you're looking for.
Iginla is a PPG player 40 goal scorer Nash is a little under a PPG player. Both Nash and Iginla at worst are 30 goal scorers they are much more then 60 point power forwards.

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Old
01-16-2011, 04:12 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
I expect Tinordi + 1st to fetch a bonafide 60+ point producer. Not one who has reached the mark once in his career and has underperformed for the bulk of his contact. Tinordi was drafted as a longterm project. He has all the tools to become a top shutdown d-man in the league. But for those who write him off because he didn't crack his WJHC roster clearly lack foresight. He's a good 3 years away (at least) from competing regularly in the NHL .

I get that Penner is arguably the Oilers best forward. But that doesn't mean a heck of a lot on a team that is the worst in the league 2 years running...

Penner had 1 bad season as an Oiler where his work ethic and weight were questioned, and he still had 17 goals! MacT used him as a whipping boy that season. This season Penner has been the Oilers best player, next to Whitney before he went down.


Last edited by kurtcobang: 01-16-2011 at 04:22 PM.
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Old
01-16-2011, 04:16 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by kurtcobang View Post
Penner had 1 bad season as an Oiler where his work ethic and weight were questioned, and he still had 17 goals! MacT used him as a whipping boy that season. This season Penner has been the Oilers best player, next to Whitney before he went down.
ftfy

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Old
01-16-2011, 04:16 PM
  #45
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I want Gorges in return even if he is injured or this thread needs to be closed, appreciating the love for Penner but he'd be valuable for Montreal with his physical game and he can put the puck in the net. You have to consider how valuable he is to the Oilers as well, they're not just going to let him walk for free, Habs fans should know this, most are fairly hockey smart.


Last edited by lakai17: 01-16-2011 at 05:40 PM.
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Old
01-16-2011, 04:17 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post
NO.

Penner has value for sure but wow dont get carried away. This is a guy who you couldnt give away for free less than 2 years ago and all of a sudden he is worth a high prospect and a #1? NO chance.

IMO he is worth a mid level prospect (Weber) and a 2nd. You would be lucky to get that much.
So in your mind, players never improve their value?

Gotcha.

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Old
01-16-2011, 04:20 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
The full deal was this:

Nathan Horton (first-line, 30 goal forward)
Greg Campbell (cheap roster player)

for

Dennis Wideman (30 point top four defender)
1st round pick
3rd round pick

Now, Penner is a bit older than Horton, but that in no way should cause the deal to drop from what Boston got to a singular late first rounder. Using the above template, a fair deal would be this:

Dustin Penner
Andrew Cogliano

for

Gorges/Wisniewski
mid 1st round pick
3rd round pick

Tinordi and a 1st is a slight underpayment if anything; there's zero justification that it's this massive gulf in value. I'd ask what Habs fans think those two could get them, but I have a feeling the answer would involve Crosby, Malkin or Stamkos.

Wideman was bordering on a salary dump after having a very bad 09-10 season. Horton had scored at least 20 goals in all of his NHL season and over 60 points twice is 2 years younger than Penner, signed for an extra year and cheaper. Gorges value is much greater than Wideman's value at the time.

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Old
01-16-2011, 04:21 PM
  #48
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No. If we trade Kostitsyn, we need a clear upgrade. Penner is not. Andrei is also more physical than Dustin. At best, it's a lateral move. So the reason you want to do this trade is why... oh I guess it's the same reason why RDS hates AK, because he is not a North American...

Every trade proposal with Andrei Kostitsyn need to be in a package for a signifiant upgrade who can play as much physical as #46. If not, we don't improve the team. It's like trade for the fun.
Sorry I didn't know AK was more physical than Penner.

Because I can't find him on the ice. Ever.

Seriously where is he? Does he even play anymore?

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Old
01-16-2011, 04:22 PM
  #49
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So in your mind, players never improve their value?

Gotcha.


I didnt say that. He has improved his value alot. He went from ZERO value to a mid level prospect and a 2nd. That a massive improvment.

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01-16-2011, 04:30 PM
  #50
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If or when Penner is traded, a lot of fans will be eating their socks as rarely do players like him get the return fans expected. MMW.

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