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Deadline Deals; PIT-NYI, PIT-CAR

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Old
01-16-2011, 04:12 PM
  #101
wej20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
I certainly do realize that, but I also realize that both Tangradi and Letestu have passed him by in the eyes of Shero and most scouts,

why pray tell would we trade our 30 goal scorer for a guy who has been passed over by two other prospects you also have? wouldnt we be better off asking for the ones your own organization thinks are better?

put yourself in our shoes, wouldnt you think you were being offered your sloppy seconds?
Of course you'll ask for the better prospects but that doesn't mean you'll get them. Moulson was sloppy thirds and he's worked out alright for you.

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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
I agree whole heartedly, guys can and do mature later, but my point with Jeffery still stands, two years ago he was much more highly thought of,

since then Letestu has made the most of his opportunity and past him by, and Tangradi was acquired from anaheim and passed him by, so Jeffery has to do something to bring attention to himself, or he'll fall through the cracks
So Jeffrey was more highly thought of when he put up 37 pts in 63 gp than he was when he put up 71 pts in 77 gp? makes sense to me. Letestu is going to be 26 in February, Jeffrey's much further along than Letestu was at the same age.

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Originally Posted by DaMick View Post
No we havent...hence the discussion.


They have been negotiating one...main question is whether they get it done in time.


How would you know?
No point going there...trolling isnt a reason to post.


Thanks for contributing to the thread.

Now back to the thread...



Interesting comparison between the 2 ...though a few tidbits

-Poni never went above 23 goals in a season...
Moulson hit 30 last year...and is on a 26+ pace this year.

Poni,though a decent player wont be mistaken with a natural goal scorer
Moulson is a bit better in that department than Poni,

Who does Moulson remind me of?
Derek King from back in the day.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=2723

Streaky sneaky scoring winger from the left side.
Poni did have at least some playoff experience though (2 playoff series) and while Moulson is definitely the better goalscorer, Poni is probably the better passer. I can see Moulson fetching slightly more than Poni but not significantly more. Snow should definitely being doing his utmost to re-sign Moulson, I mean they have to get to the cap floor and they may as well do that by paying Tavares bff who's a lock for 25 goals.

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01-16-2011, 04:18 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMick View Post

Interesting comparison between the 2 ...though a few tidbits

-Poni never went above 23 goals in a season...
Moulson hit 30 last year...and is on a 26+ pace this year.

Poni,though a decent player wont be mistaken with a natural goal scorer
Moulson is a bit better in that department than Poni,
Yeah, he's been more productive than Poni, but he has a shorter track record; Poni had 4 or 5 20 goal seasons behind him. I think Moulson's value lies somewhere between Poni on the low end and Ray Whitney on the high end.

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01-16-2011, 04:28 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Poni did have at least some playoff experience though (2 playoff series) and while Moulson is definitely the better goalscorer, Poni is probably the better passer. I can see Moulson fetching slightly more than Poni but not significantly more. Snow should definitely being doing his utmost to re-sign Moulson, I mean they have to get to the cap floor and they may as well do that by paying Tavares bff who's a lock for 25 goals.
Yeah id agree Wej20....if he did get traded..
I'm somewhat curious to see how well Moulson would do on a playoff team.

Might he crumble under the constant pressure?

Might he be a player who does well in a non stressful environment?

Interesting questions to be sure..


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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Yeah, he's been more productive than Poni, but he has a shorter track record; Poni had 4 or 5 20 goal seasons behind him. I think Moulson's value lies somewhere between Poni on the low end and Ray Whitney on the high end.
Id agree...He's likely worth more to us than to most teams.


BTW...Lets try keeping it somewhat civil guys.
No need to get silly on this topic.

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01-16-2011, 05:06 PM
  #104
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If Pens did this i would guess the lines then become

Kunitz-Crosby-TK
Jokinen-Malkin-Moulson
Cooke-Staal-Letestu
Asham-Adams-Conner

I say let's target these players.


Last edited by 66-29-33: 01-16-2011 at 05:13 PM.
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01-16-2011, 05:29 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
If Pens did this i would guess the lines then become

Kunitz-Crosby-TK
Jokinen-Malkin-Moulson
Cooke-Staal-Letestu
Asham-Adams-Conner

I say let's target these players.
No. I'm thinking they'd look like this ....

Kunitz / Crosby / Moulson
Jokinen / Staal / Malkin
Cooke / Letestu / Kennedy
Talbot / Adams / Asham

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01-16-2011, 05:32 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
If Pens did this i would guess the lines then become

Kunitz-Crosby-TK
Jokinen-Malkin-Moulson
Cooke-Staal-Letestu
Asham-Adams-Conner

I say let's target these players.
If that was the case I'd rather see

Kunitz - Crosby - Jokinen
Letestu - Malkin - Moulson
Cooke - Staal - Kennedy
Asham - Talbot - Adams

Conner can float in and out depending on play and/or injuries.

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01-16-2011, 06:04 PM
  #107
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I guess I'm the only Islanders fan that would be interested in acquiring Jeffrey. He's definitely not garbage and he'd add size up the middle which we could certainly use. He is also more skilled than our NHL-readyish forwards (Martin/Joensuu) and gives us more time to let Ullstrom develop. I think Islanders fans are being a little silly saying that he has no value to us.

That said, IMO, Jeffrey's value to the Islanders is less than an extra 4 months of exclusive rights to hammer out an extension with Moulson, and Dupuis does not make up the difference. If it is the best offer at the deadline and Moulson has flat out told Islanders management that there is no possible way he'll ever sign with them, then I'd pull the trigger, but I don't see that as being a likely situation.


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01-16-2011, 06:09 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Seph View Post
I guess I'm the only Islanders fan that would be interested in acquiring Jeffrey. He's definitely not garbage and he'd add size up the middle which we could certainly use. He is also more skilled than our NHL-readyish forwards (Martin/Joensuu) and gives us more time to let Ullstrom develop. I think Islanders fans are being a little silly saying that he has no value to us.

Kudos to you for actually having some insight into players not on your own team's roster, but unfortunately you're one of the exceptions rather than the rule. It's refreshing to be able to read a post from another team's fans without having to cringe at how unbelievably biased it is.


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Old
01-16-2011, 06:11 PM
  #109
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That is truly a horrible, horrible trade for the Hurricanes. I assume the OP has no idea what the Canes need

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01-16-2011, 06:15 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by ANTON HIS HOLINESS View Post
That is truly a horrible, horrible trade for the Hurricanes. I assume the OP has no idea what the Canes need
what are the Canes needs? Given they're current position they're probably not looking to move Jokinen at the deadline. What would Canes want for Jokinen if they were out of the picture at the deadline and decided they didn't want/couldn't re-sign Jokinen?

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01-16-2011, 06:34 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Seph View Post
I guess I'm the only Islanders fan that would be interested in acquiring Jeffrey. He's definitely not garbage and he'd add size up the middle which we could certainly use. He is also more skilled than our NHL-readyish forwards (Martin/Joensuu) and gives us more time to let Ullstrom develop. I think Islanders fans are being a little silly saying that he has no value to us.

That said, IMO, Jeffrey's value to the Islanders is less than an extra 4 months of exclusive rights to hammer out an extension with Moulson, and Dupuis does not make up the difference. If it is the best offer at the deadline and Moulson has flat out told Islanders management that there is no possible way he'll ever sign with them, then I'd pull the trigger, but I don't see that as being a likely situation.
What size?Jeffrey's 6'0/6'1

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01-16-2011, 06:38 PM
  #112
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Two things:

1. If Carolina made that trade, everyone invovled in their front office should go in front of a firing squad.

2. I don't know why people are slagging Jeffrey's development. He's a 22 year old sixth round pick. He plays center in an organization loaded with center depth and is one of the leaders in scoring in the AHL despite playing less games due to call ups. He plays in all situations and is second in the league in short handed goals, one behind the league leader in 7 less games.

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01-16-2011, 06:43 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
What size?Jeffrey's 6'0/6'1
The shortest I've seen him listed at is 6'1, which is what the NHL site has him at. On the AHL site, they have him at 6'2, and HockeyDB has him at 6'3. He's also listed anywhere between 191 (AHL site) to 199 (HockeyDB) to 205 lbs. (NHL site).

That's decent size. More than what the Isles currently have with Tavares/Shremp/Nielsen/Konopka down the middle.

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01-16-2011, 06:43 PM
  #114
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What size?Jeffrey's 6'0/6'1
When did he shrink 2-3 inches? Everywhere I've seen him listed its 6'2"-3"

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01-16-2011, 06:47 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
What size?Jeffrey's 6'0/6'1
I've seen him listed between 6'1 and 6'3.

My friend and I took his son to get some autographs during camp this year and Jeffrey was around the same height as me, and I'm 6'3. So there's my anecdotal and totally unscientific evidence.

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01-16-2011, 07:15 PM
  #116
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what are the Canes needs? Given they're current position they're probably not looking to move Jokinen at the deadline. What would Canes want for Jokinen if they were out of the picture at the deadline and decided they didn't want/couldn't re-sign Jokinen?
You're correct, currently the Canes would probably be buyers at the deadline and would probably be looking for an offensive 2nd line Center. We can debate for a while about whether Sutter/Skinner could fill that role, but it comes down to Sutter being more useful as a shutdown 3rd line Center, and the jury is still out on whether Skinner is more useful at wing or center. If they do end up as sellers at the deadline, its very iffy on whether or not they would want to move Jokinen. We have plenty of young talent that could be ready to take his position next season, but if we could get him at a similar value to what he is now we would probably keep him. The asking price would probably be a 2nd rounder and mid/high level prospect considering how well Jokinen has been playing recently and how great his contract is.

But enough about the Canes proposal, can we please get back to arguing about Jeffrey?

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01-16-2011, 07:36 PM
  #117
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You're correct, currently the Canes would probably be buyers at the deadline and would probably be looking for an offensive 2nd line Center. We can debate for a while about whether Sutter/Skinner could fill that role, but it comes down to Sutter being more useful as a shutdown 3rd line Center, and the jury is still out on whether Skinner is more useful at wing or center. If they do end up as sellers at the deadline, its very iffy on whether or not they would want to move Jokinen. We have plenty of young talent that could be ready to take his position next season, but if we could get him at a similar value to what he is now we would probably keep him. The asking price would probably be a 2nd rounder and mid/high level prospect considering how well Jokinen has been playing recently and how great his contract is.

But enough about the Canes proposal, can we please get back to arguing about Jeffrey?
Sounds like the asking price would be 2nd + Jeffrey, which might be a little rich for the Pens blood. Prospect wise what positions would Canes be looking for?

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I've seen him listed between 6'1 and 6'3.

My friend and I took his son to get some autographs during camp this year and Jeffrey was around the same height as me, and I'm 6'3. So there's my anecdotal and totally unscientific evidence.


That's a pic from his NHL goal this year in Buffalo, Ben Lovejoy is listed as 6'2 and it looks like Jeffrey is a tiny bit taller. Adams is 6'0 but even though he's not standing straight you can tell Jeffrey's comfortably taller than him.

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01-16-2011, 07:37 PM
  #118
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Sounds like the asking price would be 2nd + Jeffrey, which might be a little rich for the Pens blood. Prospect wise what positions would Canes be looking for?
Canes have pretty decent depth in most positions, but a solid defensive defenseman would be best, the closer to NHL ready the better. Another option could be either a forward/defenseman with very high potential. And of course per Carolina policy no Russians or players from the Q

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01-16-2011, 07:48 PM
  #119
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Canes have pretty decent depth in most positions, but a solid defensive defenseman would be best, the closer to NHL ready the better. Another option could be either a forward/defenseman with very high potential. And of course per Carolina policy no Russians or players from the Q
Well Shero shares the no Russians policy (apart from Geno) but we do have players from the Q as it's the junior league we scout most. Brian Strait might be a good fit, he's a solid defensive dman who played 3 years at Boston University and is now in his 2nd year in WBS. He captained the US at the 2008 WJC. He's not going to rack up a lot of points but he can make a good enough first pass to get the puck moving north. More of a smart positional guy who uses his stick but isn't afraid to lay the body. Should be able to challenge for a spot next year.

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01-16-2011, 08:13 PM
  #120
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Well Shero shares the no Russians policy (apart from Geno) but we do have players from the Q as it's the junior league we scout most. Brian Strait might be a good fit, he's a solid defensive dman who played 3 years at Boston University and is now in his 2nd year in WBS. He captained the US at the 2008 WJC. He's not going to rack up a lot of points but he can make a good enough first pass to get the puck moving north. More of a smart positional guy who uses his stick but isn't afraid to lay the body. Should be able to challenge for a spot next year.
That sounds like he could work, but again right now its really hard to tell where the Canes will be come trade deadline, and what they will be looking to do with Jokinen after the season is over.

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01-16-2011, 08:14 PM
  #121
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The shortest I've seen him listed at is 6'1, which is what the NHL site has him at. On the AHL site, they have him at 6'2, and HockeyDB has him at 6'3. He's also listed anywhere between 191 (AHL site) to 199 (HockeyDB) to 205 lbs. (NHL site).

That's decent size. More than what the Isles currently have with Tavares/Shremp/Nielsen/Konopka down the middle.
Those are considerable differences in height and weight.

I still can't get excited about moving a 25-30 goal nhl scorer for Jeffrey.If he's the best offer Snow gets,I'd rather have Snow keep Moulson past the deadline,keep contract talks going right up until July 1st.

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01-16-2011, 08:20 PM
  #122
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That sounds like he could work, but again right now its really hard to tell where the Canes will be come trade deadline, and what they will be looking to do with Jokinen after the season is over.
I imagine they'd like to re-sign him if possible, I can't imagine he's going to cost a ton to re-sign.

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01-16-2011, 08:20 PM
  #123
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Those are considerable differences in height and weight.

I still can't get excited about moving a 25-30 goal nhl scorer for Jeffrey.If he's the best offer Snow gets,I'd rather have Snow keep Moulson past the deadline,keep contract talks going right up until July 1st.
I wasn't really commenting on the Jeffrey for Moulson bit in my response. I was touching on the size issue, which Jeffrey certainly does have, even if you were to go by the lowest estimate. He looks around 6'2" when you see him on the ice (for instance, he looks taller than Craig Adams, and Adams is 6'0" pushing 6'1"), but even at worst, he's taller than the four guys I listed on the Isles down the middle when they're all healthy. So Seph's comment about adding size is valid.

Also keep in mind this: maybe Jeffrey's the next Moulson? A high scorer in the AHL but who hasn't been given his chance to shine yet at the NHL level for a variety of reasons? Backtrack 5 years and how many people would scoff at any proposal that included a 22-year old Matt Moulson, writing him off as "garbage"?

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01-16-2011, 08:39 PM
  #124
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I think Moulson could be dealt but it'll take a solid deal for the Isles to the pull the trigger. They are out of the playoff picture and if they can't sign Moulson by the time the deadline comes around, it makes sense to deal him to get something for him. The thing is, the Isles are going to want MORE than fair value for him because they think he is part of their future plans. It's definetly a tricky situation.

If Moulson is traded:

Pros:
1. They get a nice piece added for their future. Anywhere from a 1st round pick (highest they can get IMO) to a 2nd round pick and a decent prospect.
2. If it's a short playoff run and Moulson doesn't mesh with the new team, he could very well go back to NY and get a nice piece with a pick/prospect.
3. If they hold onto him and can't get a deal on July 1st, they lose him for nothing. In this scenario they did the best they could. You can't risk losing him to UFA for nothing.

Cons:
1. They can end up losing him... for good for nothing. Obviously they lose him for the short-term at the very least and he's a solid NHL player.
2. He's a part of their future plans, that's clear and it's simply just tough to trade him.
3. You don't want to piss of JT. As someone said above, this is a business and JT should know that. Even still, I imagine it's at least a small factor.

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01-16-2011, 08:43 PM
  #125
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As is the case with any player putting up numbers on a bad team I'm a little leery about giving up a ton for Moulson.

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