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Deadline Deals; PIT-NYI, PIT-CAR

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Old
01-16-2011, 07:44 PM
  #126
hctopcheds11
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As for the Hurricanes, if they are in the race then obviously, Jokinen isn't going anywhere.

However, if they fall out of the race, he's definitely trade-able. His value is tough to predict... I'd assume anywhere from a late late 1st round pick to a high end prospect to a 2nd paired with a good prospect.

From the Penguins, I'd offer:

2nd round pick to third round pick and Brian Strait.

2nd round pick is a decent piece and a poster just claimed that the Canes would like a solid defensive prospect. While Strait is no Despres, he's definitely a solid prospect in the Penguins system and he's having a nice year in WBS. He could be NHL ready by next season and was a former captain of the U.S WJC team (as someone said above).

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01-16-2011, 07:50 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I wasn't really commenting on the Jeffrey for Moulson bit in my response. I was touching on the size issue, which Jeffrey certainly does have, even if you were to go by the lowest estimate. He looks around 6'2" when you see him on the ice (for instance, he looks taller than Craig Adams, and Adams is 6'0" pushing 6'1"), but even at worst, he's taller than the four guys I listed on the Isles down the middle when they're all healthy. So Seph's comment about adding size is valid.

Also keep in mind this: maybe Jeffrey's the next Moulson? A high scorer in the AHL but who hasn't been given his chance to shine yet at the NHL level for a variety of reasons? Backtrack 5 years and how many people would scoff at any proposal that included a 22-year old Matt Moulson, writing him off as "garbage"?
I thought PA Parentau was the next Moulson.
I don't go overboard for prospects who tear up the AHL.It's a nice accomplishment,but Isle fans have been there with Papineau,Tambellini and several other young forwards.

Also,I never said Jeffrey was garbage.I said I didn't want him in exchange for my team's 25-30 goal nhl scorer and that I'd rather have the isles own forward prospects(Nino,Petrov,Martin,Joensuu),getting open roster spots.

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01-16-2011, 08:00 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
I think Moulson could be dealt but it'll take a solid deal for the Isles to the pull the trigger. They are out of the playoff picture and if they can't sign Moulson by the time the deadline comes around, it makes sense to deal him to get something for him. The thing is, the Isles are going to want MORE than fair value for him because they think he is part of their future plans. It's definetly a tricky situation.

If Moulson is traded:

2. If it's a short playoff run and Moulson doesn't mesh with the new team, he could very well go back to NY and get a nice piece with a pick/prospect.
.
If Moulson rejects the isles contract extension and gets traded to another team,I think it extremely unlikely that he ends up returning to sign with the NYI on July 1st.

The isles aren't making an 11th hour attempt to sign Moulson.They have plenty of time to put their best offer together.He and his reps have plenty of time to look it over.I doubt the isles would come back on July 1st with a much bigger offer.

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01-16-2011, 08:28 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Isles have a smart,two way 3rd line center in Frans Neilsen.
And no interest in flipping Dupuis for a 3rd,in a draft that lacks depth.
I'd rather see Moulson walk and get nothing,then see Snow make a lousy trade and later see Moulson help another team advance deep into the playoffs.
You're not a GM responsible for managing assets.

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01-16-2011, 08:47 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
If Moulson rejects the isles contract extension and gets traded to another team,I think it extremely unlikely that he ends up returning to sign with the NYI on July 1st.

The isles aren't making an 11th hour attempt to sign Moulson.They have plenty of time to put their best offer together.He and his reps have plenty of time to look it over.I doubt the isles would come back on July 1st with a much bigger offer.
So you'd say that if the Isles don't reach a deal with Moulson by trade deadline, you'd think he's gone for good?

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01-16-2011, 09:05 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
So you'd say that if the Isles don't reach a deal with Moulson by trade deadline, you'd think he's gone for good?
Any Isles fan who follows the team would say ....hell yes.

Damn shame if that happens.

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01-16-2011, 09:18 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Syrinx View Post
You're not a GM responsible for managing assets.
Yeah, I can't imagine a GM turning down assets for a player that he thinks he can't re-sign. Maybe Snow thinks he can still sign Moulson. I don't know. I just can't see him turning down assets if he thinks he can't.

A lot of fans are also claiming this draft won't be deep, but plenty of good players have been drafted in drafts that people said weren't deep and GM's usually have enough ego/confidence to think they'll find one of the good ones in those drafts. They like having the extra picks, as well. The more picks, the more chances you have to strike gold and find one of those hidden gems. Hell, some of the GM's may not even agree that this draft isn't deep. Matter of opinion.

All that said, I'd still want more than a pick if I were trading Moulson. Id want at least a 2nd and a pretty good prospect. He won't get Tangradi, Bennett or Despres, but he could holdout for one of Bortuzzo, Strait, Jeffrey etc. All 3 of those guys will be NHL'ers for the Pens or another team in the not too distant future. Not sure they fit a need, but they're still good assets to acquire with a draft pick, especially for a guy that they may lose for nothing.

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01-16-2011, 09:24 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Syrinx View Post
You're not a GM responsible for managing assets.
Well Snow is and a few times we've seen him shop impending ufas at the trade deadline,only to keep those players as the deadline passed when he didn't get offers he liked.Off the top of my head I can remember Satan and Fedetenko both being shopped,remaining for the rest of the season and later walking.

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01-16-2011, 09:33 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
So you'd say that if the Isles don't reach a deal with Moulson by trade deadline, you'd think he's gone for good?

I think if the isles and Moulson are making good progress in his extension talks and the trade deadline arrives,the isles would keep Moulson,keep negoiating and try to get him signed before July 1st.

They don't want him talking to other teams,seeing what other teams would offer and being tempted by teams more liklely to make the postseason next season.

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01-16-2011, 10:41 PM
  #135
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Yeah, I can't imagine a GM turning down assets for a player that he thinks he can't re-sign. Maybe Snow thinks he can still sign Moulson. I don't know. I just can't see him turning down assets if he thinks he can't.

A lot of fans are also claiming this draft won't be deep, but plenty of good players have been drafted in drafts that people said weren't deep and GM's usually have enough ego/confidence to think they'll find one of the good ones in those drafts. They like having the extra picks, as well. The more picks, the more chances you have to strike gold and find one of those hidden gems. Hell, some of the GM's may not even agree that this draft isn't deep. Matter of opinion.

All that said, I'd still want more than a pick if I were trading Moulson. Id want at least a 2nd and a pretty good prospect. He won't get Tangradi, Bennett or Despres, but he could holdout for one of Bortuzzo, Strait, Jeffrey etc. All 3 of those guys will be NHL'ers for the Pens or another team in the not too distant future. Not sure they fit a need, but they're still good assets to acquire with a draft pick, especially for a guy that they may lose for nothing.
Yeah but Moulson is a 30 goal scorer and thats not usually available, from my Blackhawks I'd give a first and Skille or Hendry,
plus why would Snow trade him in Division? so he could be haunted by it. especially giving the Penguins exactly what they need.

That would be the height of stupidity plenty of teams can use a proven scorer, Id think the Islanders should try to keep him or trade him out west

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01-16-2011, 10:52 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by joeyp View Post
Yeah but Moulson is a 30 goal scorer and thats not usually available, from my Blackhawks I'd give a first and Skille or Hendry,
plus why would Snow trade him in Division? so he could be haunted by it. especially giving the Penguins exactly what they need.

That would be the height of stupidity plenty of teams can use a proven scorer, Id think the Islanders should try to keep him or trade him out west
My point was they should get assets for him if they know he won't re-sign. Maybe another team, like your Hawks, will offer a better package for him than the Pens. I don't think you worry about trading within the division though. You worry about getting the best assets. Word is he's working toward and hoping to get an extension with the Isles. I think I saw that posted somewhere, so maybe he stays with the Isles. I kind of hope he does.

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01-17-2011, 12:42 AM
  #137
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The one thing to take from this thread is that if you think a 22 year old who's been a fantastic AHLer is a prospect reject simply because he hasn't cracked an NHL contender laden with veteran one-way contracts, you probably need to bone up on hockey history.


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01-17-2011, 02:24 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
The one thing to take from this thread is that if you think a 22 year old who's been a fantastic AHLer is a prospect reject simply because he hasn't cracked an NHL contender laden with veteran one-way contracts, you probably need to bone up on hockey history.
either that or you have a bunch of pittsburgh homers who know less than they think they do.....I never said he cant play I just said he's failed in his opportunities and he sure as hell isnt worth a 30 goal scorer like Moulson.

you guys think hes so damn good Why isnt he playing on your team? the fact is you were trying to pawn him off as a good forward prospect, when the real prize prospect in your system is Tangradi.

Penguin fans just dont like that Isles fans wouldnt fall for the Bullsh*t.... he is a suspect prospect at this point simply because hes had 2 call ups and done nothing so far

I'll tell you this though if the kid ever scores 20 goals in a season Ill come to your board and say I was wrong and take whatever abuse you can dish out, but I want the penguin fans to do the same when he doesnt and he's traded or cut. Penguin fans were feeding Isles fans a load of garbage about how good he is and I was told differently

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01-17-2011, 02:44 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
either that or you have a bunch of pittsburgh homers who know less than they think they do.....I never said he cant play I just said he's failed in his opportunities and he sure as hell isnt worth a 30 goal scorer like Moulson.

you guys think hes so damn good Why isnt he playing on your team? the fact is you were trying to pawn him off as a good forward prospect, when the real prize prospect in your system is Tangradi.

Penguin fans just dont like that Isles fans wouldnt fall for the Bullsh*t.... he is a suspect prospect at this point simply because hes had 2 call ups and done nothing so far

I'll tell you this though if the kid ever scores 20 goals in a season Ill come to your board and say I was wrong and take whatever abuse you can dish out, but I want the penguin fans to do the same when he doesnt and he's traded or cut. Penguin fans were feeding Isles fans a load of garbage about how good he is and I was told differently
Big difference between a signed Matt Moulson and Matt Moulson as an unsigned rental though. Jeffrey isn't worth anything close to a signed Moulson, but he with a pick isn't bad value at all for a rental player.

Also, Jeffrey hasn't really failed when he was up here. He's actually done fine. We knew Letestu could play in the NHL last year. The numbers didn't show it, but you could see it. There just wasn't any room for him until this year. Jeffrey is probably in the same boat. We just wont have room for him until next year when a lot of contracts expire.

I'd also add that I think Jeffrey's a better player right now than Tangradi. Tangradi has more hype and is more of a need since he's a winger/power forward and Jeffrey is just another center, which we're overflowing with. No question in my mind that Jeffrey has played better at both the AHL and NHL level than Tangradi this year, though. He just doesn't fill a need for us right now when you have Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Letestu and Talbot as centers at the NHL level.


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Old
01-17-2011, 04:52 AM
  #140
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Well Snow is and a few times we've seen him shop impending ufas at the trade deadline,only to keep those players as the deadline passed when he didn't get offers he liked.Off the top of my head I can remember Satan and Fedetenko both being shopped,remaining for the rest of the season and later walking.
You don't think that was good asset managment do you?

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01-17-2011, 05:33 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
either that or you have a bunch of pittsburgh homers who know less than they think they do.....I never said he cant play I just said he's failed in his opportunities and he sure as hell isnt worth a 30 goal scorer like Moulson.

you guys think hes so damn good Why isnt he playing on your team? the fact is you were trying to pawn him off as a good forward prospect, when the real prize prospect in your system is Tangradi.

Penguin fans just dont like that Isles fans wouldnt fall for the Bullsh*t.... he is a suspect prospect at this point simply because hes had 2 call ups and done nothing so far
Get your head out of your ass. Done nothing so far in his callups? How about a goal and an assist in his first game this year. Actually Jeffrey has done very well with the limited minutes he's been getting in his 4 games this year. You'd know this if you had any clue about Dustin Jeffrey.

Why isn't he playing regularly on our team? How about because we have Crosby, Malkin, Staal and Letestu down the middle and Jeffrey is better off playing in AHL than being our 4th line C. That and because we have a team full of players who'd have to pass waivers to be sent down and quite frankly all of our player are NHL caliber and therefore we won't risk losing them for nothing. I know it's a difficult consept to understand for an Islanders fan when your team is full of AHL'ers and guys who don't have to clear waivers to be sent to AHL.

Since you like to trash Jeffrey and are in love for Tangradi why not get your facts straight. Tangradi was handed out a top-6 role straight from the training camp this year and now he's playing in AHL. Using your terminology he failed his chances so let me ask you why you want him?

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01-17-2011, 08:48 AM
  #142
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You don't think that was good asset managment do you?

I think it comes town to reputation and how Snow wants to be perceived by other gms.

If Snow's in talks with another gm and getting an offer he's unhappy with,does he want to roll over annd take the lousy return?Or send the message for future trade talks, that he's not the type who'll roll over?

Unlike some nyi fans,I don't rant over his refusal to take a crappy return.Either a trade is good and he'll make it or it isn't and he'll pass.Snow's added a glut of unproven prospects and we're now seeing them start to make their way to the isles roster.I like Snow a lot more then most NYI fans

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01-17-2011, 08:57 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
The one thing to take from this thread is that if you think a 22 year old who's been a fantastic AHLer is a prospect reject simply because he hasn't cracked an NHL contender laden with veteran one-way contracts, you probably need to bone up on hockey history.
NY Newsday and ESPN report that both Moulson and the isles want to get an extension done.I expect an extension agreement will be reached,so Jeffrey's NHL potential isn't a concern for me,but I gotta point out that there have been plenty of guys who played very well in the AHL,then been unable to bring that success to the NHL.

My isles have had several Papineau and Tambellini were the latest.


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01-17-2011, 11:03 AM
  #144
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I am a die hard Pens fans, but Penguins fans tend to overrate ALL OF THEIR prospects/ahl players. I cant tell you how many people were outraged when Luca Caputi was traded. Most fans thought this guy was going to be a top 4 winger. He has been nothing but a bust thus far and cant even crack the Leafs roster unless there are injuries.

Now they are all getting fired up at the possibility of trading Jeffrey!?!?! The guy is a great AHL player. We have way too many centers so he likely wont make the team. There is no point of just having a career AHL player, trade him while he has some value.

Everyone thought Tangradi would be a starter on the Pens this year. But he was awful in 9 or 10 games early in the year. But it FINALLY looks like he is showing some progress in the AHL.

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01-17-2011, 11:04 AM
  #145
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I am a die hard Pens fans, but Penguins fans tend to overrate ALL OF THEIR prospects/ahl players. I cant tell you how many people were outraged when Luca Caputi was traded. Most fans thought this guy was going to be a top 4 winger. He has been nothing but a bust thus far and cant even crack the Leafs roster unless there are injuries.

Now they are all getting fired up at the possibility of trading Jeffrey!?!?! The guy is a great AHL player. We have way too many centers so he likely wont make the team. There is no point of just having a career AHL player, trade him while he has some value.

Everyone thought Tangradi would be a starter on the Pens this year. But he was awful in 9 or 10 games early in the year. But it FINALLY looks like he is showing some progress in the AHL.
He didn't look awful in his 9 game audition.

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01-17-2011, 11:11 AM
  #146
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Now they are all getting fired up at the possibility of trading Jeffrey!?!?! The guy is a great AHL player. We have way too many centers so he likely wont make the team. There is no point of just having a career AHL player, trade him while he has some value.
I haven't seen anyone who's fired up at the possibility of trading Jeffrey. We're only fired up because some idiot is saying is he's garbage, reject or whatever. Couldn't be farther from truth.

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01-17-2011, 11:27 AM
  #147
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I haven't seen anyone who's fired up at the possibility of trading Jeffrey. We're only fired up because some idiot is saying is he's garbage, reject or whatever. Couldn't be farther from truth.
Pretty much this.

I couldn't care less if Jeffrey got traded, if it yielded the Pens a player that could help them win. I just think it's ridiculous that someone with limited knowledge of the player would refer to him as garbage.

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01-17-2011, 04:39 PM
  #148
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I never said he cant play I just said he's failed in his opportunities and he sure as hell isnt worth a 30 goal scorer like Moulson.
You called him a "reject" several times. Way off-base.

You also said he failed in his opportunities, which is also misinformed.

Quote:
you guys think hes so damn good Why isnt he playing on your team? the fact is you were trying to pawn him off as a good forward prospect, when the real prize prospect in your system is Tangradi.
It's been explained to you. He's caught up in a numbers game on a team filled with Cup-winning vets on one-way contracts. Next year, with vets coming up on UFA in the summer and Jeffrey almost certainly looking for a one-way deal, he'll be in the NHL. He has nothing more to prove in the A.

You're right about one thing though - Tangradi is the prize forward in the Pens system. But Tangradis don't get dealt for UFA Moulsons - however, if you can find an example of a similarly well-regarded prospect getting dealt for a playoff unproven UFA like Moulson, we'd all love to hear it.

I'll wait.

Quote:
I'll tell you this though if the kid ever scores 20 goals in a season Ill come to your board and say I was wrong and take whatever abuse you can dish out, but I want the penguin fans to do the same when he doesnt and he's traded or cut. Penguin fans were feeding Isles fans a load of garbage about how good he is and I was told differently
Jeffrey may never score 20 goals in a year - his future NHL role is still very much undecided. But seeing as how his value isn't restricted to scoring goals, that's really not a pressing concern.

But he sure isn't getting cut...by all accounts, he's been the Baby Pens' best player by a country mile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
NY Newsday and ESPN report that both Moulson and the isles want to get an extension done.I expect an extension agreement will be reached,so Jeffrey's NHL potential isn't a concern for me,but I gotta point out that there have been plenty of guys who played very well in the AHL,then been unable to bring that success to the NHL.
Of course. That was never in doubt.

The problem is when people start labeling a 22 year old who's playing great in the minors as a "reject" simply because he's caught up in a numbers game.

That's dumb. Several current quality NHLers have taken a similar route to the NHL.


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01-17-2011, 05:00 PM
  #149
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Solid point...though im not sure Sid recruited Armstrong. (How Tavares got Moulson on the Isles)

Plus Tavares and Sid are 2 vastly different creatures...
(Sid being a generational talent,Tavares is still growing into the role of the franchise)

Id think the Islanders would want to baby him a bit more based on what little help Tavares has around on the Islanders.
I respect your opinion completely, but even though there is a difference in the talent between Tavares and Crosby, there is no difference in their standing with their respective teams. Crosby also lobbied for Armstrong to be on his line, from what I read back in the day, so that's pretty similar.

Tavares has help. His help is just hurt/on their way through the system. I mean, the Isles aren't in any hurry to win. They still have some pieces that they need, so they can afford to wait. Moulson isn't at all pivotal to the Islanders going forward.

If I were the Isles and someone offered me a decent pick and a prospect for Moulson...I'd probably do it. This is all hinging on Moulson's salary demands, of course. If he is affordable, then you sign him.

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01-17-2011, 05:05 PM
  #150
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Damn....wasted my 8000th post on this.


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