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Old
01-16-2011, 03:25 PM
  #26
Roughneck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfong View Post
Its not just about age though, its about the role you take on the team. Jaybo has never "had" to become better on the Panthers because he was already their top.

Dion on the other hand was still considered the #2/3 guy in a Flames uniform behind Reggie and arguably Hammer. So he was still in a position to learn if you think about it.
After that Norris nomination, he didn't consider himself a #2/3 guy or felt he was in a position to need to learn.

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Now he has Kaberle and what not to follow after (whishful thinking of course) while Jaybo is more or less the clearcut top guy given his price tag and youth versus Reggie. So in a mental assumption, he has nothing to "prove".
So Jaybo is a clearcut top guy because of his salary and relative youth, but Phaneuf who was the youngest and highest paid defenseman on the Flames, and now the highest paid defenseman on the Leafs has Kaberle to follow? Make up your mind.

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18 months is also a pretty long time too. Look at Gio in between 18 month intervals. Half way through one year he is the #4/5 guy, then he goes to the KHL and comes back and can can be a #1 guy (offensively and all around imo) or at worst a #2/3.
Or look at Phaneuf in that exact same 18 months.

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I didn't say over the hill, but I think Jaybo matured a lot faster, while Dion isn't "mature" really so potentially he could become better when he reaches a mature state. Its like saying Jaybo peaked earlier because he matured mentall faster.
Can't argue that Phaneuf is immature.

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Old
01-16-2011, 05:14 PM
  #27
Johnny Hoxville
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Lets break it down, please feel free to critique me:

Defence/Positional Play (in own zone): < Bouw. This area is not even close. And being a defenceman, this is crucial to the position they play. Bouw is heads and shoulders better in his own end than Dion. Bouwmeester does not get skated around nearly as often as Dion, and knows how to positionally take opponents out of the play.

Offence: < Dion. This is alot closer than some think. Over the last 2 seasons, Dion has 40 pts in 109 games (an avg of 0.37 PPG) and Bouw has 127 pts in 127 games (an avg of 0.29 PPG). So while it is close, Dion has the edge here.

Skating: < Bouw. Again, this is Bouwmeester's biggest asset. His skating gives him the ability to recover from pinching and also allows his partner to take more chances. Not to mention he is excellent at carrying the puck out of his own end and does need to look at the puck when skating like Dion. Dion is not to shabby here either, but Bouw is better.

Passing: < Bouw. Whether its the first pass out of his own end, or down low in the offensive zone, Bouw is the better passer. He makes more crisp and tape to tape passes than Dion.

Physicality: < Dion. This area is not really close either. Being physical and aggressive is one of Dion's biggest assets. He is known for his bone crushing hits and putting fear into the opposition, although he has not been hitting much lately.

Stickwork: < Bouw. Bouwmeester is among the best d-man in the league at using his stick in the passing lane, and makes up for his lack of physciality by pouching the puck off of the oppositions stick.

Overal Hockey IQ: < Bouw. Sometimes Dion will go for the big hit to take himself out of the play (although he's been improving here) and he will go for the big shot, which often misses wide and results in the puck going out of the offensive zone. Bouw takes more low shots, trying to get the puck on the net which is a higher percentage play. And as previously mentioned, defensively Bouw is much smarter than Dion.

Durability: < Bouw. Not much needs to explained here. Bouwmeester is the ironman in the NHL and his style of play takes a less physical tole on his body.

Locker Room Factor (being a team guy) < Draw. I'll call this even. Bouw does not say much, and just leads by example and appears to be somewhat of a non vocal leader. Dion on the other hand is the exact opposite. He was labelled a cancer in Calgary, but appears to be great in TO.

All in all, if you factor in their cap hits and age which is close, its hard to argue otherwise that Bouw is better than Dion. I'd rather have Bouw on my team any day, and I'm glad that Dion got moved. Its just to bad that we did not get a better return for him.


Last edited by Johnny Hoxville: 01-16-2011 at 05:19 PM.
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Old
01-16-2011, 05:44 PM
  #28
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I'd say Passing is a wash.

And while Bouw is better at skating without the puck, Dion is better at skating with it.

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01-16-2011, 06:17 PM
  #29
tfong
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I didn't say in their current state that Dion was better than Jaybo anyways. I just think that while Jaybo has a peaked, I think it is possible for Dion to get better.

In regards Kaberle vs Jaybo as a "mentor" I would take Kaberle over Jaybo anyday unfortunately. While not knowing how things work in the Leafs, if Dion learned a few things from Kaberle, it could be arguable that he would be more valuable than Jbo.

Keeping in mind this is not a hit on Jaybo. But typically offensive dmen with avg defensive skills are more valued over defensive dmen with avg off skills.

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Old
01-16-2011, 09:38 PM
  #30
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Dion reminds me of Al Iafrate, he may already have started to break down like Al did at a young age.

Wendel Clark and Eric Lindros are 2 others.

You just can't play a robust style like those guys for a long period of time. You have to re-invent yourself. The problem with Dion is - does he have the hockey sense to re-invent himself?

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Old
01-16-2011, 09:39 PM
  #31
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I cant believe the Flames agreed to pay Bowmeister that much money.

He gets April to September off every year to boot. I think the flames should rebuild , like now. Get a 5 year plan. The guy is already 28 years old I would try to trade him

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01-16-2011, 10:19 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeygeek View Post
Dion looks he's trying to play a more responsible defensive game instead of the more rambuctious style that he used to play. That's just not sitting well with most Leaf fans who expected him to dominate every game with bone crushing hits. He wouldn't be judged so harshly if his reputation wasn't so overblown
I think this is it, but come on, sooner or later you gotta realize it's not workin' for ya, time to go with the horse that brought ya there. He plays best when being a rambunctious animal looking for physical domination and shooting the glass off the boards. He's not a good defensive dman, and never will be, he and the Leafs hierarchy need to accept that.

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Old
01-16-2011, 10:24 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedved1 View Post
I cant believe the Flames agreed to pay Bowmeister that much money.

He gets April to September off every year to boot. I think the flames should rebuild , like now. Get a 5 year plan. The guy is already 28 years old I would try to trade him
I think you should go back to the NYR board before Luny sees what you said can blasts you

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Old
01-16-2011, 10:54 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfong View Post
I didn't say in their current state that Dion was better than Jaybo anyways. I just think that while Jaybo has a peaked, I think it is possible for Dion to get better.
It should be possible, only one of them has been nominated for the Norris. Why you think one has reached their peak while the other hasn't while bringing age into it is the issue.

Quote:
In regards Kaberle vs Jaybo as a "mentor" I would take Kaberle over Jaybo anyday unfortunately. While not knowing how things work in the Leafs, if Dion learned a few things from Kaberle, it could be arguable that he would be more valuable than Jbo.
Dion was more valuable than JBo only a couple seasons ago. Since then he disappeared offensively without improving defensively. Kaberle isn't going to mentor the captain and highest paid player on the Leafs, just like Bouwmeester wasn't brought in to mentor anybody, especially not a guy who is an entire 18 months younger and separated by a single draft class (Ovechkin and Crosby have a greater difference in age) who was getting paid the same as he was.

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