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Kaberle for Wheeler

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Old
01-17-2011, 05:55 AM
  #51
nmbr_24
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Originally Posted by Antropovsky View Post
So let me get this straight, I just said that Wheeler is a pansy who doesn't back check, and you came back at me with, "you know nothing about Wheeler...Claude Julien told Wheeler that he's a pansy who doesn't back check, and Wheeler is working on improving these aspects of his game"

???

For years, numerous Leaf coaches "tried" to get Alexei Ponikarovsky to play physical.
No, Wheeler backchecks better than just about anyone on the team other than Patrice Bergeron who should be a candidate for the Selke trophy and he hits as well, he also uses his big body to prtect the puck while he is carrying it.

Defense has never been a problem for Wheeler but Julien wanted him to get even better so he could be one of the top PK'ers on the team.

You said Wheeler could be a bad influence on Kessel when that is so far from the truth it is laughable.

You just don't know about Wheeler if you think the things you said because they are way off base.

Imagine if Kessel put in 1/10th the effort Wheeler puts in working on his game. Kessel would be a great player, he has that potential but previously Kessel has refused to put in the extra work it takes to get better at things like defense where Wheeler has done everything asked of him.

Wheeler could be the Leafs #1 penalty killer right now, he is great defensively. Every big player doesn't have to be Chris Pronger. Wheeler brings so much more than just being a big body and what the Bruins are working on with him is using it more effectively and he has been doing just that.

There might have been validity to people saying he was soft last year, but not this year unless you just mean he isn't a fighter.

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01-17-2011, 06:51 AM
  #52
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How but we give Kessel back first? then talk kaberle.

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01-17-2011, 07:32 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
I'm not a Bruins fan. I think toronto fans are really over valuing what you can get out of a half a season for an UFA coming up. It seems likes teams aren't trading 1st's at the deadline like they use to in the past. Kaberle will NOT bring back a top 3 forward. At best toronto will get a 1st or a player like Wheeler or if they get really really lucky they can get Setoguchi.


Kaberle is simply a rental at this point.
Think he gets maybe a high 2nd rd pick or a very late 1st, but Nobody gives up a first rd pick for a rental unless they are sure they can sign him longer term.

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01-17-2011, 07:39 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by fireworks View Post
I highly doubt that Toronto and Boston will make any more trades for awhile. I personally have no interest in Kaberle! Way,way too soft. Yes, the Bruins could use a puck moving defenseman...but I do not want Kaberle on the Bruins!!


There has to be a better,more interesting available defenseman

The Bruins have assets that they could offer such as:

draft picks
Hamill
Colborne
Caron
Wheeler
Ryder
Bodnarchuk
Penner
Sauve
Arniel
Ryder is not an asset - he's a liability - with his play and pay.

Hamil is a small scoring forward with 3 goals in the AHL this year.

Joe Colborne is like every other 6'5" prospect around HF - overhyped - he projects to be a solid player not a star. 20 points in 40 AHL games this year. By comparison the Leafs whipping boy Kadri is at a ppg in the AHL even with the circus surrounding him, injuries, and limited ice-time.

Caron is another 1st round pick of the Bruins under-performing.

Penner is a dime a dozen D prospect and the Leafs have plenty of those.

Overall it's a list of players that really has underperformed and a typical HFboards offer. Your top 10 scoring D man - pick from my pile of under-performing players.

Wheeler and Colborne are the only two on that list that intrigue but both are playing well below expectations.

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Old
01-17-2011, 07:41 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by remer View Post
:

Kaberle is simply a rental at this point.
Think he gets maybe a high 2nd rd pick or a very late 1st, but Nobody gives up a first rd pick for a rental unless they are sure they can sign him longer term.
You might want to take a look at trades that involved a top 10 scoring defenceman - even as a rental - you'll be surprised since all the evidence shows you are wrong. Plenty a top UFA has garnered a hefty price at the deadline.

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01-17-2011, 07:50 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
No, Wheeler backchecks better than just about anyone on the team other than Patrice Bergeron who should be a candidate for the Selke trophy and he hits as well, he also uses his big body to prtect the puck while he is carrying it.

Defense has never been a problem for Wheeler but Julien wanted him to get even better so he could be one of the top PK'ers on the team.

You said Wheeler could be a bad influence on Kessel when that is so far from the truth it is laughable.

You just don't know about Wheeler if you think the things you said because they are way off base.

Imagine if Kessel put in 1/10th the effort Wheeler puts in working on his game. Kessel would be a great player, he has that potential but previously Kessel has refused to put in the extra work it takes to get better at things like defense where Wheeler has done everything asked of him.

Wheeler could be the Leafs #1 penalty killer right now, he is great defensively. Every big player doesn't have to be Chris Pronger. Wheeler brings so much more than just being a big body and what the Bruins are working on with him is using it more effectively and he has been doing just that.

There might have been validity to people saying he was soft last year, but not this year unless you just mean he isn't a fighter.
With all you say and Wheeler's production it appears we have a nice 3rd line player who is defensively responsible. Why would the Leafs trade a top 10 scoring D man for a 3rd liner.

Chia Pet has a man crush on Kaberle going back to the days in Ottawa when Kabs outplayed Chara and Redden in multiple playoff series. Chia tried to get Kabs for Kessel, so you know the interest is there. Bruins D is struggling. Kabs would be the perfect fit with Chara.

Burke on the other hand is lothe to trade players performing wel,l and not interested in picks, since he desperately wants to save face by staying out of the top 5 picks in the NHL draft. Since he's stated this - why would he trade his best d-man - especially to a divisional rival. A divisional rival that owns his first round pick. He's not going to weaken this years team - repeatedly stated.

I could see some interest from the Leafs for Wheeler but expect it to be Wheeler ++ as Burke tries to save face.

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01-17-2011, 07:56 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I doubt this happens, it sounds like somebody trying to sell newspapers or generate hits on their site to me.

One thing I find funny is how little most of the people who have posted in this thread actually know about Wheeler.

They guy is one of the best defensive forwrds on one of the best defensive teams in the league and is still a 20 goal scorer yet people say he sucks. He has been way more physical than he has ever been berfore and his all around game has progressed very well, so far in fact that the Bruins coaching staff trusts him to fill in at any forward position on any line, yet people are saying he regressed.

I'm not saying the Leafs should want him, I am just saying that the people who say he sucks, plays small, has regressed, etc. really don't know what they are talking about.

Wheeler has a great attitude and does everything the coach asks of him. The coach asked him to be a 3rd line checking forward, no problem, he does it, he asks him to fill in at center while Krejci is injured so all he does is go out and play the best hockey of his career, the coach asks him to play wing on the 2nd line, no problem, he just goes out and does the job.

Wheeler used to get a bad rap on these boards from Bruins fans, but this year, most of us can see that his game has changed and it has changed for the better.

Wheeler centering Kessel would be a good line, better than anyone the Leafs have centering Kessel now. I'm not saying Leaf fans should want him, but I really doubt the Bruins would trade Wheeler and a 1st for a guy who will be an UFA. I could be wrong but I hope I am not, Wheeler is a very useful player and i am happy he is on the Bruins.
^This.

Who is on the ice in the closing minutes of a close game? Wheeler
Who is in his 3rd year & averaging 20 goals per season (this yr again)? Wheeler
Who is 6'5" & has this year finally started to use it? Wheeler
Who is one of our top PK'ers? Wheeler
Who plays center when one of our centers is injured? Wheeler

$2.2m for a 6'5" 24yr old kid who can play wing/ center, is incredible in his own zone, is great on PK, & scores you 20 goals per season & has a fantastic work ethic... I'll take that all day. Can't understand how he & Kessel are close friends seeing as he is the "Anti-Kessel".. Opposites attract!

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Old
01-17-2011, 08:00 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
I could see some interest from the Leafs for Wheeler but expect it to be Wheeler ++ as Burke tries to save face.
I can see that. I'm not sure I buy that Toronto has much interest in Wheeler either. They already have several versatile players on their roster who are pretty good on both sides of the puck and can play multiple forward positions.

The only two +'s I can see Chia adding to the deal though would be a salary dump and Bos 1st which I can't imagine Burke going for.

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01-17-2011, 08:04 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
^This.

Who is on the ice in the closing minutes of a close game? Wheeler
Who is in his 3rd year & averaging 20 goals per season (this yr again)? Wheeler
Who is 6'5" & has this year finally started to use it? Wheeler
Who is one of our top PK'ers? Wheeler
Who plays center when one of our centers is injured? Wheeler

$2.2m for a 6'5" 24yr old kid who can play wing/ center, is incredible in his own zone, is great on PK, & scores you 20 goals per season & has a fantastic work ethic... I'll take that all day. Can't understand how he & Kessel are close friends seeing as he is the "Anti-Kessel".. Opposites attract!
This post has Bruins homer all over it.

Wheeler is a solid defensive player, who kills penalties, and is on pace for 18 goals (10 goals in 44 games). Sounds like a good third liner. No disrespect but do people around here actually think top 10 scoring dmen are traded for 3rd liners?

Before we all get on the 'rental' bandwagon - take a look at top UFA's and what they were dealt for as rentals.

As far as the Kessel crack - Kessel is struggling this year with 19 goals - a sure bet to crack 30 goals for the third straight season. How many 30 goal men are on the Bruins? Kessel is also doing this with Joey Crabb and Tyler Bozak as his line-mates. So if by 'anti' you mean someone that has the ability to break open a game - then yes this is Kessel.

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01-17-2011, 08:14 AM
  #60
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Toronto could do better than that unless Kabs limits them to teams with his NTC.. i.e he wants to stay in the North East. Wheelers a good kid who could probably be a 50-60 point guy but I think Kabs could return a 1st and maybe even a decent prospect. It depends how you think of Wheeler. He's still a project and he's still growing into his body but its hard to tell with guys that size.

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Old
01-17-2011, 08:23 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireworks View Post
I highly doubt that Toronto and Boston will make any more trades for awhile. I personally have no interest in Kaberle! Way,way too soft. Yes, the Bruins could use a puck moving defenseman...but I do not want Kaberle on the Bruins!!


There has to be a better,more interesting available defenseman

The Bruins have assets that they could offer such as:

draft picks
Hamill
Colborne
Caron
Wheeler
Ryder
Bodnarchuk
Penner
Sauve
Arniel
Hamill is a bust with no value
Colborne has some value as a former mid 1st round pick who has progressed at an "ok pace"
Caron has value but not to get a dman better than Kaberle
Wheeler... see abovle
Ryder- UFA and not good, no value
Penner- career minor leaguer, no value
Bodnarchuk and Arniel are dime a dozen fringe prospects
Sauve prospect with some skill but not a lot of value

You aren't getting a better dman than Kaberle for any of those guys. I guess if you package Wheeler and Colborne/Caron you might get a dman like Kaberle (ufa) but a lot of the stuff you are offering is of no value to teams.

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Old
01-17-2011, 08:25 AM
  #62
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Want no part of Wheeler. Starts with Colborne.

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Old
01-17-2011, 08:29 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
With all you say and Wheeler's production it appears we have a nice 3rd line player who is defensively responsible. Why would the Leafs trade a top 10 scoring D man for a 3rd liner.

Chia Pet has a man crush on Kaberle going back to the days in Ottawa when Kabs outplayed Chara and Redden in multiple playoff series. Chia tried to get Kabs for Kessel, so you know the interest is there. Bruins D is struggling. Kabs would be the perfect fit with Chara.

Burke on the other hand is lothe to trade players performing wel,l and not interested in picks, since he desperately wants to save face by staying out of the top 5 picks in the NHL draft. Since he's stated this - why would he trade his best d-man - especially to a divisional rival. A divisional rival that owns his first round pick. He's not going to weaken this years team - repeatedly stated.

I could see some interest from the Leafs for Wheeler but expect it to be Wheeler ++ as Burke tries to save face.
I never said the Leafs should want to trade kaberle for Wheeler, I was pointing out that Wheeler is not the soft, bad defensive, player with a bad attitude that some people were saying he was. As a matter of fact, I said in a post in this thread that I wasn't saying the Leafs should want to trade kaberle for Wheeler.

I am actually a person who thinks the Leafs should lock up Kaberle long term. One of the reasons is that he will be an UFA and could walk for free, so if they aren't going to trade him, i think they should lock him up for the foreseeable future.

Now, if they are going to trade him, Boston is one of the teams that has the assets and the need for a player like Kaberle so I can see where all the rumors come from, that and the fact that they tried to trade for him before.

At the same time, i don't expect Chiarelli to trade Wheeler++ for a guy who could walk for free at the end of the season. I would expect Kaberle to be traded in a deal much more like Jay Bouwmeester at this point than what people are asking for in these trade rumors. What is 30 or so games of Kaberle worth? I think a Boumeester/Kaberle comparison is pretty fair.

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01-17-2011, 08:32 AM
  #64
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95% of people posting in this thread have absolutely no idea about Blake Wheeler.

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01-17-2011, 08:42 AM
  #65
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Not happening, not ever.

First off, we already overpaid Boston for a heartless and overrated player, we don't want any more.

Second, It would be Wheeler +....Kaberle, again, is near the top 10 in defense scoring on one of the most offensively challenged teams.

Regardless of his expiring contract, he is the mobile PP QB that our division rival covets... He isn't going to Boston unless we fill a big need in the process.

Think Kabby + for 1 of Bergeron or David Krejci.

If thats not a fair deal, the B's can look for another 4.2m pp qb in the top 10-15 in d scoring. Good luck.

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01-17-2011, 08:43 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by BruinsButton View Post
95% of people posting in this thread have absolutely no idea about Blake Wheeler.
Inform us.

To me, he is another sad story. All the skills in the world, but no work ethic or heart to apply them.

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01-17-2011, 08:55 AM
  #67
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I feel that Burke is shoppin a little harder then usual because he doesnt want to take the chance of holding a bag of nothing if Kabby tries the open market.

Kabby has a NTC? Kabby doesnt want to leave TO? Bull. If kabby had a chance to "test out" another team with no risk of a long term commitment and play in the playoffs, forget what the leaf media says was said or who can read the minds of players, kabby will no doubt wave his NTC to go. hmmmm... play in the playoffs? make more money? check out another team? OR play golf? hmmmm...

Burke on the other hand, if he doesnt trade Kabby and get a good return for him OR he doesnt sign him to stay in TO then burkie might not be able to recover from that one.

If Kabbie was staying in TO he'd be signed already like all the other top Dman with there respective teams. You usually only hold out unless a trade is an option or consideration of the open market.

As for Wheeler for kabbie... I believe that as the deadline gets closer that kabbies value will decrease instead of raise because of time restraints to trade him and get a return. If TO trades with Boston it will be at the deadline and not before.

I hate long comments...

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01-17-2011, 08:59 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Hamill is a bust with no value
Colborne has some value as a former mid 1st round pick who has progressed at an "ok pace"
Caron has value but not to get a dman better than Kaberle
Wheeler... see abovle
Ryder- UFA and not good, no value
Penner- career minor leaguer, no value
Bodnarchuk and Arniel are dime a dozen fringe prospects
Sauve prospect with some skill but not a lot of value

You aren't getting a better dman than Kaberle for any of those guys. I guess if you package Wheeler and Colborne/Caron you might get a dman like Kaberle (ufa) but a lot of the stuff you are offering is of no value to teams.
I agree with the part of your assesment that Ryder, Penner, Bodnarchuk and Arniel really aren't at all desirable to the Leafs.

But, Wheeler and Colborne/Caron would be too high of a price to pay for 30 or so games of kaberle in my opinion.

We are talking about 30 or so games here unless he was re-signed and that is not a sure thing. Boston's 1st round pick is the what I would offer up and I wouldn't go any further than that unless it is adding a player to make it work salary wise. Of course I am not a GM, but it seems like a deal that fits the need of both teams to me.

Both teams take a risk, the Bruins that Kaberle would re-sign and the Leafs that the pick turns into an NHL player.

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01-17-2011, 09:01 AM
  #69
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1. leafs need centers not more 2nd/3rd line wingers

2. kaberle has more points as a defenseman then wheeler so trading them straight up would make the leafs worse in terms of point production and because we would have no puck moving defenseman.

3. as long as boston is holding the leafs 1st round pick burke wont do anything that would make us worse and improve the boston pick


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
^This.

Who is on the ice in the closing minutes of a close game? Wheeler
Who is in his 3rd year & averaging 20 goals per season (this yr again)? Wheeler
Who is 6'5" & has this year finally started to use it? Wheeler
Who is one of our top PK'ers? Wheeler
Who plays center when one of our centers is injured? Wheeler

$2.2m for a 6'5" 24yr old kid who can play wing/ center, is incredible in his own zone, is great on PK, & scores you 20 goals per season & has a fantastic work ethic... I'll take that all day. Can't understand how he & Kessel are close friends seeing as he is the "Anti-Kessel".. Opposites attract!

wheeler would not be on the ice on the closing minutes for the leafs in my opinion. usually it is the kulemin-grab-mac line or the versteeg-boyce-army line. either way i cant see wheeler being on the ice. he might be for boston but boston is a little shallow on the wing. its not surprising that wheeler would be on the ice.

even if wheeler is an excellent penalty killer i dont consider him to be better then versteeg, armstrong, kulemin, bozak, brown, or sjostrom. so while it is a good feature to have it would do little to benefit the leafs.

wheeler had 21 goals once, last season he had 18, and is on pace for 18 goals again this season. if wheeler is a 20 goal scorer then kessel is a 40 goal scorer.

boston is having a great season and could go on a great playoff run. kaberle would definitely help with that. why would boston want to trade a winger when they are shallow there.

considering boston is in compete now mode i would think any assets they trade would be futures not from the roster. while there are assets boston could trade to bolster their defense/offense burke has said countless times he wants immediate help. based on that i dont see any more trades going down between the leafs-bruins during the season.

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01-17-2011, 09:02 AM
  #70
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Inform us.

To me, he is another sad story. All the skills in the world, but no work ethic or heart to apply them.
He has been playing pretty well this year. He developed a solid 2 way game, and is constantly one of the harder working B's this year.

Far from a sad story. We also found he is a pretty solid center if needed. He started hitting more. I don't know what people expected of him, but he is playing pretty solid this year.

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01-17-2011, 09:09 AM
  #71
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I like Wheeler, but i would prefer a first round pick for Kaberle.

Please give it back Boston...

Sometimes i really hate being a Leafs fan.

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01-17-2011, 09:11 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Inform us.

To me, he is another sad story. All the skills in the world, but no work ethic or heart to apply them.
You just don't know anything about Wheeler then. He has a great work ethic and is willing to do anything the coach asks of him. He has made himself into one of the best defensive players on one of the best defensive teams in the league.

It would be understandable if you said this a year ago, but times have changed and so has Wheeler.

Wheeler has gone from a guy who was expected to be a scorer to a guy who can be used in any situation and relied upon to be great defensively.

Now don't misunderstand, I'm not saying Wheeler is an elite talent, but what he is, is a guy who can play on the checking line and score 20 goals per year, a great penalty killer, and a guy who can fill in at any forward position on any line.

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01-17-2011, 09:15 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by MoreMogilny View Post
I like Wheeler, but i would prefer a first round pick for Kaberle.

Please give it back Boston...

Sometimes i really hate being a Leafs fan.
I wouldn't have a problem with giving up Boston's 1st, TO's pick is another story though..

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01-17-2011, 09:17 AM
  #74
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^^ agreed,

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreMogilny View Post
I like Wheeler, but i would prefer a first round pick for Kaberle.

Please give it back Boston...

Sometimes i really hate being a Leafs fan.
but he did say please

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01-17-2011, 09:20 AM
  #75
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.. because a inconsistent player is worth veteran leadership and playoff experience?

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