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Kaberle for Wheeler

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Old
01-17-2011, 09:21 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Not happening, not ever.

First off, we already overpaid Boston for a heartless and overrated player, we don't want any more.

Second, It would be Wheeler +....Kaberle, again, is near the top 10 in defense scoring on one of the most offensively challenged teams.

Regardless of his expiring contract, he is the mobile PP QB that our division rival covets... He isn't going to Boston unless we fill a big need in the process.

Think Kabby + for 1 of Bergeron or David Krejci.

If thats not a fair deal, the B's can look for another 4.2m pp qb in the top 10-15 in d scoring. Good luck.
Hahahahaha. Really?

Kaberle is a rental, guy. A good player, but a rental. Lower those expectations.

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01-17-2011, 09:21 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by GoBs View Post
He has been playing pretty well this year. He developed a solid 2 way game, and is constantly one of the harder working B's this year.

Far from a sad story. We also found he is a pretty solid center if needed. He started hitting more. I don't know what people expected of him, but he is playing pretty solid this year.
This. He is what he is, and unfortunately when you're the 5th overall pick, there are justifiably elevated expectations in terms of point production. But after a disappointing sophomore season where he looked completely lost after a solid rookie season, Wheeler has been markedly better this year in every aspect of his game.

He's shown some versatility that nobody knew he had in terms of being able to play any forward position effectively, he's much more physically engaged and willing to battle for space this year, he's become a really good penalty killer and defensive player, and he's shown a lot of that offensive creativity that was gone last year for some reason. I'm not going to even comment on the Kaberle for Wheeler rumor in terms of their relative values, etc, because I don't know at this point. But Wheeler's overall game has improved by leaps and bounds this year, and there are a few of us that believe his career arc is heading in a similar direction to Patrick Sharp's. Will he ever be as good as Sharp? Probably not, but stranger things have happened and their development at the same ages is pretty similar.

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01-17-2011, 09:22 AM
  #78
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Upcoming UFA's rarely, if ever, return what most people here on HF expect. Very few first round picks and significant prospects are dealt near deadline day. I expect Kaberle to stay a Leaf anyway.

I'm not a Blake Wheeler fan, but he's FAR from garbage. He's a very good two-way 2nd/3rd line winger with size and the ability to skate. Great PK'er too.

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01-17-2011, 09:23 AM
  #79
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Well he certainly isnt the same player he was a few years ago judging by his stats.....and looks like he is prone to taking some stupid penalties too

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01-17-2011, 09:25 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by 2fast4u2 View Post
Well he certainly isnt the same player he was a few years ago judging by his stats.....and looks like he is prone to taking some stupid penalties too
Kaberle or Wheeler?

Kaberle has taken only ONE penalty this year .. plus most of Kabbys shot on net are deflected.

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01-17-2011, 09:26 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I agree with the part of your assesment that Ryder, Penner, Bodnarchuk and Arniel really aren't at all desirable to the Leafs.

But, Wheeler and Colborne/Caron would be too high of a price to pay for 30 or so games of kaberle in my opinion.

We are talking about 30 or so games here unless he was re-signed and that is not a sure thing. Boston's 1st round pick is the what I would offer up and I wouldn't go any further than that unless it is adding a player to make it work salary wise. Of course I am not a GM, but it seems like a deal that fits the need of both teams to me.

Both teams take a risk, the Bruins that Kaberle would re-sign and the Leafs that the pick turns into an NHL player.
Wheeler's contract is up at the end of the season as well. And though he is a RFA, it remains to be seen if he'll be resigned. Is Wheeler at $3m next year any better than Caron at $1m?

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01-17-2011, 09:28 AM
  #82
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I'm not knocking on Kaberle, he is a lil soft for my liking but there's no doubt in my mind he'd be a great asset on the Bruins blue line.. I like Wheelers' play this year, he's really evolving into a good player. Imo Wheeler is becoming a 25 goal scoring top-6 winger (or center). He shouldn't get more than 2.5 to 3m, what more can you ask for that money.. I'm not suggesting that a Wheeler for Kaberle swap is even value, I'm just stating that Wheeler is a better player than most Leaf fans here are describing him as. If Wheeler plays such an important role in Boston, I'm a believer that he'd play an even more important role on a less talented Toronto squad.

I hope Toronto re-signs Kaberle so all this Wheeler/ Kaberle talk fizzles.. & Chiarelli can go out & attempt to trade for another pmd.. Hopefully a Boston 1st & prospect can get it done.

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01-17-2011, 09:29 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
You just don't know anything about Wheeler then. He has a great work ethic and is willing to do anything the coach asks of him. He has made himself into one of the best defensive players on one of the best defensive teams in the league.

It would be understandable if you said this a year ago, but times have changed and so has Wheeler.

Wheeler has gone from a guy who was expected to be a scorer to a guy who can be used in any situation and relied upon to be great defensively.

Now don't misunderstand, I'm not saying Wheeler is an elite talent, but what he is, is a guy who can play on the checking line and score 20 goals per year, a great penalty killer, and a guy who can fill in at any forward position on any line.
In fairness, if Wheeler is a different player this year I wouldn`t know. I`ve seen maybe one Bruins game this season. However, watching him at times last season he looked Russian; Incredible skillset, but forgets to turn the switch on every night.

Leafs need top 6 forwards, not 2-3rd line tweeners.

As I said, fair or not, IMO Leafs need one of Bergeron or Krejci in return for a Kaberle package.

Wheeler may be a better play this season, but he still isn`t worth Kaberle straight up.

A lock to finish in the top 10-15 in d scoring every year, Wheeler alone wont fetch Kaberle.

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01-17-2011, 09:34 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Boston BROin View Post
Hahahahaha. Really?

Kaberle is a rental, guy. A good player, but a rental. Lower those expectations.
Not expectations, just how it is.

Burke, though he wont admit it, realizes the one sided trade he made, and I can guarantee he wont make another one sided deal with a division rival if he hopes to keep his job.

A year ago everyone was on the Burke train.....after last season and the beginning of this, Burke is on the hot seat. He better chose his next moves wisely, or they`ll cost him his job.

Oh, and regarding the rental......I will almost guarantee you, IF Kaberle is traded, he`ll resign before he waives. He may play for one more team in his career.....He doesn`t want to be a 20 game + playoff rental.....and his NTC will prevent any action he hasn`t agreed to.

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01-17-2011, 09:38 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Inform us.

To me, he is another sad story. All the skills in the world, but no work ethic or heart to apply them.
No work ethic or heart? He's easily been one of the most hard working Bruins all season long (Bergeron and Marchand being the only two that can give him a run for his money in that regard).

As for whether or not he can put up the numbers to support being a top6 player... hard to say. Boston's system isn't exactly condusive to offensive output.

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01-17-2011, 09:40 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by thebluewhiteandused View Post
Kaberle or Wheeler?

Kaberle has taken only ONE penalty this year .. plus most of Kabbys shot on net are deflected.
Not Kaberle.....Wheeler.......Kaberle is still good but he isnt what he used to be either.I am actually surprised he is still with the Leafs IMO

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01-17-2011, 09:41 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
In fairness, if Wheeler is a different player this year I wouldn`t know. I`ve seen maybe one Bruins game this season. However, watching him at times last season he looked Russian; Incredible skillset, but forgets to turn the switch on every night.

Leafs need top 6 forwards, not 2-3rd line tweeners.

As I said, fair or not, IMO Leafs need one of Bergeron or Krejci in return for a Kaberle package.
Wheeler may be a better play this season, but he still isn`t worth Kaberle straight up.

A lock to finish in the top 10-15 in d scoring every year, Wheeler alone wont fetch Kaberle.
Won't happen. Fair or not Kaberle is a rental, as much as Leaf fans are attempting to ignore this fact when gauging his value. Last season Kaberle would've been worth more than he is today. Unfortunately Burke has mishandled Kaberle, from the botched Kessel trade, to the waiving his ntc request, & now saying he respects him & won't ask him to waive... It just has been a nightmare for this guy.

It seems like the Kaberle Toronto romance is coming to an end, & Kaberle holds all the cards. Burke has no say at all. If Kaberle wants to help Burke, he'd approach him about waiving & give him a list of teams he'd be willing to go to. Then in the offseason if the interest is mutual, Kaberle & Burke can work out a contract. The fact that Kaberle hasn't re-signed yet smells fishy to me, perhaps Kaberle is going to finish the season in Leaf land & bolt in the offseason ala Sundin hence giving Burke a big effyoo & laughing last.


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01-17-2011, 09:48 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
In fairness, if Wheeler is a different player this year I wouldn`t know. I`ve seen maybe one Bruins game this season. However, watching him at times last season he looked Russian; Incredible skillset, but forgets to turn the switch on every night.

Leafs need top 6 forwards, not 2-3rd line tweeners.

As I said, fair or not, IMO Leafs need one of Bergeron or Krejci in return for a Kaberle package.

Wheeler may be a better play this season, but he still isn`t worth Kaberle straight up.

A lock to finish in the top 10-15 in d scoring every year, Wheeler alone wont fetch Kaberle.
I'd describe Wheeler's season like this:

Early on the guy was doing everything right. Playing well, making passes, hustling, playing some D... but just not getting pts. But overall he LOOKED better than in other years.

Since then the pts have come somewhat, but I'm starting to see some of the old bad habits.

He's a hard guy to gauge because OTOH there may be some room to grow still, on the other, he really hasn't progressed much in 3 NHL seasons. He looks to me to be exactly what he has been:

a 20-20-40 guy with not a lot else. Yes he does kill penalties (2nd unit pk) but I'm not sure that's enough to up his value much.

He really is not that different from Kulemin, McArthur and Versteeg. While another 20 goal scorer won't hurt Toronto, it may not be their top priority. He has played a little center this year, perhaps if Toronto moved him there, he'd have more value to them.

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01-17-2011, 09:49 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
In fairness, if Wheeler is a different player this year I wouldn`t know. I`ve seen maybe one Bruins game this season. However, watching him at times last season he looked Russian; Incredible skillset, but forgets to turn the switch on every night.

Leafs need top 6 forwards, not 2-3rd line tweeners.

As I said, fair or not, IMO Leafs need one of Bergeron or Krejci in return for a Kaberle package.

Wheeler may be a better play this season, but he still isn`t worth Kaberle straight up.

A lock to finish in the top 10-15 in d scoring every year, Wheeler alone wont fetch Kaberle.
At times last year Wheeler looked like he wasn't sure what he was supposed to do, this year it is a different story.

I have no problem with you saying it would take more than Wheeler to get Kaberle, I tend to think that is probably how it is.

However, for Krejci or Bergeron I doubt it would happen. Maybe if they were UFA's to be, but they aren't and it would take Toronto adding a significant piece to land one of those guys I would think.

As good as Kaberle is, he isn't worth what the top d-men in the league are worth. He just doesn't have the defensive skills to command the same type of deal that Pronger or Chara type of players would get. He is what he is, an offfensive minded playmaking d-man that any team trading for knows it is a very good possibility that he will only play 30 or so games plus the playoffs for their team.

It is probably far better for the Leafs to re-sign him long term and I am really surprised that Burke hasn't been more active in trying to accomplish this. Who knows though, they may be having talks now and we just don't know about it.

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01-17-2011, 09:49 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Won't happen. Fair or not Kaberle is a rental, as much as Leaf fans are attempting to ignore this fact when gauging his value. Last season Kaberle would've been worth more than he is today. Unfortunately Burke has mishandled Kaberle, from the botched Kessel trade, to the waiving his ntc request, & now saying he respects him & won't ask him to waive... It just has been a nightmare for this guy.

It seems like the Kaberle Toronto romance is coming to an end, & Kaberle holds all the cards. Burke has no say at all. If Kaberle wants to help Burke, he'd approach him about waiving & give him a list of teams he'd be willing to go to. Then in the offseason if the interest is mutual, Kaberle & Burke can work out a contract. The fact that Kaberle hasn't re-signed yet smells fishy to me, perhaps Kaberle is going to finish the season in Leaf land & bolt in the offseason ala Sundin hence giving Burke a big effyoo & laughing last.
Agreed. The thought of Boston giving up Bergeron or Krejci for Kaberle is complete fantasy.

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01-17-2011, 10:21 AM
  #91
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Lol wut? I would love for you to find a tough pmd that u could actually possibly get for wheeler and not break your core with?
Tough pmd are very rare.
Wisniewski is a tough pmD who is outscoring Kaberle, and was just traded for a 2nd round pick. I'd say a 2nd is worth considerably less than Wheeler.

And if I had a choice, at the same price, I would take the 26 year old Wiz over the 32 year old Kaberle, given the physical aspect of Wiz's game and with the hopes of resigning one of them, that the younger player would continue to improve as he entered his prime.

(And fwiw, I've always been a Kaberle defender on the B's board.)

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01-17-2011, 10:22 AM
  #92
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Wheeler's contract is up at the end of the season as well. And though he is a RFA, it remains to be seen if he'll be resigned. Is Wheeler at $3m next year any better than Caron at $1m?
I'm not sure. But I think having Wheeler and Caron and no Kaberle is better than not having all 3 of them.

Wheeler's value may not be equal to Kaberle, but adding Caron or Colborne pushes it too far the other way. A lesser prospect or pick would be ok, or Boston's 1st alone.

The thing is that when those names are being talked about, and if Chiarelli is willing to part with them, I would hope they would go all out and try to get a player who will be around for more than 30 or so games and the playoffs.

If Kaberle's price was less, it would be a no brainer, I just am not sure that an UFA to be #2 d-man can get a solid forward and a teams best prospect. That just seems pretty steep for 30 or so games.

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01-17-2011, 10:26 AM
  #93
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I'm not a Bruins fan. I think toronto fans are really over valuing what you can get out of a half a season for an UFA coming up. It seems likes teams aren't trading 1st's at the deadline like they use to in the past. Kaberle will NOT bring back a top 3 forward. At best toronto will get a 1st or a player like Wheeler or if they get really really lucky they can get Setoguchi.
I agree. I think TO would be lucky to get Wheeler for Kaberle.

Kaberle is not a 28 year old Brian Campbell in his prime, in the middle of a career season.

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01-17-2011, 10:29 AM
  #94
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God help us, one just can't kill Kaberle trade rumors, they are like undead or vampires or something.

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01-17-2011, 10:32 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Inform us.

To me, he is another sad story. All the skills in the world, but no work ethic or heart to apply them.
Wheeler is a high-energy player with speed and size. One of the hardest workers on the ice for the B's. He gets in on the forecheck and yes, hits and disrupts the play. He works the corners and the front of the net. He's added a bit of a chippy edge to his game this season (which IMO, is why so many B's fans have changed their tune about him this year). He protects the puck. He can skate and he has good hands. He's one of our best PK'ers and imo, the only Leaf PK'er better is Sjostrom. He doesn't get much PP time, but when he does he's used at the top of the crease, screening the goalie, which he's very good at. He can play center, arguably his best position. And if there's a knock on him, it's that he's more of a pass-first player than a shooter, which would explain why he doesn't have a great shot, but may also explain why he looks more comfortable at C. And he's 24 and still progressing.

IMO, he'd jump onto your 2nd line with Kessel (either at C or LW) and it would be intriguing to see where he goes from there. I think most B's fans would expect him to be more productive in a more offensive role. And it would be interesting to see how his offensive game and chemistry with Kessel evolves.


Last edited by PlayMakers: 01-17-2011 at 10:54 AM.
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01-17-2011, 10:38 AM
  #96
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Kaberle won't agree to be traded just to spite management because he was treated so poorly through the media by Burke and Wilson.

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01-17-2011, 10:50 AM
  #97
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I've said it before, if Toronto moves Kaberle it's a very bad move. Resign him to a 3-4 year contract and be glad you have a quaterback for the PP for the duration of the 'rebuild'.

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01-17-2011, 10:50 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Want no part of Wheeler. Starts with Colborne.
I get why folks would say this but it's a little peculiar to me because they are very similar players. Or at least, they were.

They're both 6'5" guys who played inferior Jr hockey and are/were considered long-term projects. They both played C and W in college and put up almost identical numbers their first two years in the WCHA. (At which point Colborne left for the AHL, while Wheeler stayed one more year, then made the jump directly to the NHL.)

And the knock on Colborne is the same as what the knock on Wheeler was: that he was (or in Colborne's case IS) a big kid who didn't know how to use it. Now, Wheeler has overcome his biggest weakness and Colborne is where Wheeler was 3 years ago, working through it. If anything, playing with high-energy/jam comes more naturally to Wheeler. (And I'd give Colborne the edge when it comes to shooting the puck.)

And even now, they're both still trending up and improving. You'd like to think Colborne has the higher upside, but I don't know how anyone could know that for sure considering the fact that Wheeler is also noticeably better and still improving.

Bottom line- you could trade for Colborne and end up with a player who is identical to Wheeler.

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01-17-2011, 10:59 AM
  #99
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Wheeler is a high-energy player with speed and size. One of the hardest workers on the ice for the B's. He gets in on the forecheck and yes, hits and disrupts the play. He works the corners and the front of the net. He's added a bit of a chippy edge to his game this season (which IMO, is why so many B's fans have changed their tune about him this year). He protects the puck. He can skate and he has good hands. He's one of our best PK'ers and imo, the only Leaf PK'er better is Sjostrom. He doesn't get much PP time, but when he does he's used at the top of the crease, screening the goalie, which he's very good at. He can play center, arguably his best position. And if there's a knock on him, it's that he's more of a pass-first player than a shooter, which would explain why he doesn't have a great shot, but may also explain why he looks more comfortable at C. And he's 24 and still progressing every year.

IMO, he'd jump onto your 2nd line with Kessel (either at C or LW) and it would be intriguing to see where he goes from there. I think most B's fans would expect him to be more productive in a more offensive role. And it would be interesting to see how his offensive game and chemistry with Kessel evolves.
I totally agree with you and I'll even go as far as saying I don't think we will see Wheeler at his best unless/until he is playing as a center.

That opens another can of worms for the Bruins since they are overstocked at center. Savard, Bergeron, Krejci, Seguin, Wheeler and that isn't even including their prospects.

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01-17-2011, 11:04 AM
  #100
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I can see that. I'm not sure I buy that Toronto has much interest in Wheeler either. They already have several versatile players on their roster who are pretty good on both sides of the puck and can play multiple forward positions.

The only two +'s I can see Chia adding to the deal though would be a salary dump and Bos 1st which I can't imagine Burke going for.
Yep. You wonder with time passing each day how far Burke has backed himself into the proverbial corner, and if he will be forced to make a move with Kaberle.

Still Wheeler alone isn't enough to save Burke from getting ripped apart by the Toronto media. He'll need more just to save face.

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