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Emelin's requirements to come in NA

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Old
01-17-2011, 08:35 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Toro View Post
well i guess it might be a UFA defenceman in the offseason if money and a spot is given to Emelin.

Say we give the kid his clause an 15 games into the season he just cant stay in the lineup. We lost the chance to sign an NHL vet in the offseason.
Why ? He would have a base salary of 1mil... and not assured... it's like saying we can't invite Brandon Nash next year, because it will prevent us from getting an UFA.

If he's good enough to make our Top 6, UFA or not, it's a great pick-up.

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01-17-2011, 08:38 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I don't see why anyone has a problem with this at all.

He wants to come for the NHL or bust. If he can't make it, he goes home. Big ****ing deal.

The way I see it, he comes over and sticks or he goes home. If he goes home, we don't have him, just like we don't if we never sign him to a contract. If we sign him AT LEAST we have a chance at having one of our better prospects play for our team.
Read post 73.

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01-17-2011, 08:40 AM
  #78
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This is career changes for him. Look to be establish in the KHL with probably dreams of playing in the NHL, the risk is huge for both parties. The habs have been keeping a good tabe and for good reason. The thing is, every year, there is talk about it and in the end, he vever makes it over.

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01-17-2011, 08:44 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
I'm sure we've scouted him pretty thoroughly and if he warranted that kind of clause, he'd have it.
Ever since the playoffs last season he's been playing much better so it'll be interesting to see if the Habs would feel more comfortable to give him the clause. Over the year he's put up minutes and numbers unlike he's ever done in the KHL/RSL. If I'm not mistaken, he can only be signed to q one year entry level deal so it's not really much of a risk.

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01-17-2011, 08:45 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I don't see why anyone has a problem with this at all.

He wants to come for the NHL or bust. If he can't make it, he goes home. Big ****ing deal.

The way I see it, he comes over and sticks or he goes home. If he goes home, we don't have him, just like we don't if we never sign him to a contract. If we sign him AT LEAST we have a chance at having one of our better prospects play for our team.
I agree in principle since it seems we'll have something rather than nothing. But the guy's really just hurting himself by skipping over the AHL. Streit looked terrible when he first landed with us, not being used to the style and pace of the NA game. I guess I don't see the harm, other than to him, in giving him his request.

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01-17-2011, 08:55 AM
  #81
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A different perspective..........

1. If he's that good and confident why be worried about it.

2. If he fails so to speak and goes back to the KHL, the organization just lost an asset that somehow may have to be replaced.

3. I guess it depends on how it's written but what if he simply doesn't like Montreal then he can underperform and go back to where he came from I guess.

Give me the guy that's committed to the organization unless the Habs are that desperate.

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01-17-2011, 09:23 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
He'll be 25 next year. If he doesn't have the talent to make the team at that age, let him go back. If he does have the talent, and its a matter of a little adjustment, convince him that he should have a conditioning type stint of 10 games in hamilton, if he doesn't recieve a call up by a certain date, he's free to use his out clause.
Pretty much what I would try to get him over. That being said I have pretty much lost hope of that happening.

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01-17-2011, 09:42 AM
  #83
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Do the Habs need him?

Markov - Wizniewski
Hammer - Spacek
Gorges - Subban
Weber or Emelin?

Our top 6 is pretty good, sign Hammer to a 1 or 2 year contract (I know, rookie > vet here, but lets be reality, Hammer is still a very good dman, whereas who knows if this Russian can even crack a NHL roster?). Emelin > Weber? Bring him in on a full pay 2-way contract, he can start season in AHL for conditioning and when he looks comfortable, bring him up as a #7 D man for injury sub?

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01-17-2011, 10:12 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Do the Habs need him?

Markov - Wizniewski
Hammer - Spacek
Gorges - Subban
Weber or Emelin?

Our top 6 is pretty good, sign Hammer to a 1 or 2 year contract (I know, rookie > vet here, but lets be reality, Hammer is still a very good dman, whereas who knows if this Russian can even crack a NHL roster?). Emelin > Weber? Bring him in on a full pay 2-way contract, he can start season in AHL for conditioning and when he looks comfortable, bring him up as a #7 D man for injury sub?
Do the habs need a young 6'1 215 gritty stay-at-home defencemen? Yes please!

I'd put him over Spacek and Weber if I'd need to replace someone.
Try to find a way to get rid of Spacer and/or package Weber in a trade.

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01-17-2011, 10:19 AM
  #85
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Who cares about this guy

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01-17-2011, 10:20 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by HiGGy View Post
Do the habs need a young 6'1 215 gritty stay-at-home defencemen? Yes please!

I'd put him over Spacek and Weber if I'd need to replace someone.
Try to find a way to get rid of Spacer and/or package Weber in a trade.
Well Im not against him, but do you really want to dump Spacek than find out Emelin is not quite ready for the NHL? I mean we don't even know how effective Emelin will be in the AHL, it's a little too early to pencil him in over a guy with 800 NHL games no matter how much of a goat he is with certain Montreal fans. Lots of top Euro league players don't get shots in the NHL because they do go to the AHL and cant even really stand out there. Who's to guarantee Emelin will be an effective NHLer? Not even the Habs' scouts can which is why they want to be sure he can do some AHL time.

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01-17-2011, 10:22 AM
  #87
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The people who want to give him the clause scare me.

Why give prospects contracts, then? Every European player will want to just go back home if they can't struggle to play from the minors to the main club. Alex Avtsin must look stupid now. Has to work his butt off learning the North American game but his buddy Emelin can just walk onto the team and if it doesn't work? Go back home and make millions!

Hey, lets not leave North American players out of this either! If they don't work out, we can just cut them loose and let them play for whatever AHL team feels more comfortable and hey, maybe there is an NHL team they'd rather play for! Let's make it easy on these guys, eh?

If Emelin isn't willing to learn the North American hockey game in the Canadien's system, and can't bear the embarrassment of being sent to the AHL, then he doesn't belong in the National Hockey League. I don't want players of fragile emotions and ego.

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01-17-2011, 10:28 AM
  #88
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I don't see the harm. Give him the clause. As mentioned by others. A 10 game stint in the AHL might be beneficial also. THere is really nothing to lose. It isn't like he will break the bank anyways and at his age, I believe his entry level contract is a one year contract. Sign him, 10 game in the AHL, out clause to return to the KHL. Everyone is happy. Personally, I think he makes the team out of camp.

Gorges, Spacek, Subban, Weber.
We resign Markov
Try to resign Wiz or someone else.
Add Emelin, that's 7.

Play the top 6.

The people afraid that every European will want this clause. Who. Niclas Torp, Maxim Trunev. If they are good enough for the Habs to accept, give it to them. If not, stay home. Not everyone can demand. If Natinen wants this clause in his contract and Gauthier doesn't think that he can do enough at the NHL level to warrent it, then no clause or stay home.

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01-17-2011, 10:30 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
The people who want to give him the clause scare me.

Why give prospects contracts, then? Every European player will want to just go back home if they can't struggle to play from the minors to the main club. Alex Avtsin must look stupid now. Has to work his butt off learning the North American game but his buddy Emelin can just walk onto the team and if it doesn't work? Go back home and make millions!

Hey, lets not leave North American players out of this either! If they don't work out, we can just cut them loose and let them play for whatever AHL team feels more comfortable and hey, maybe there is an NHL team they'd rather play for! Let's make it easy on these guys, eh?

If Emelin isn't willing to learn the North American hockey game in the Canadien's system, and can't bear the embarrassment of being sent to the AHL, then he doesn't belong in the National Hockey League. I don't want players of fragile emotions and ego.

While I understand your perspective completely, the comparison to Avtsin doesn't hold water. Emelin will be a 25 year old with many years in the KHL under his belt, while Avtsin, now 19, is the youngest player in the AHL and had previously been struggling to secure his spot in the KHL.

Of course, I can't imagine Avtsin is too happy at the moment bouncing in and out of the Bulldogs' line-up, but that is beside the point. Avtsin and Emelin are very different cases. At 25, Emelin is more like signing a UFA out of Europe than giving a contract to a prospect.


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Originally Posted by Mad Habber View Post
I don't see the harm. Give him the clause. As mentioned by others. A 10 game stint in the AHL might be beneficial also. THere is really nothing to lose. It isn't like he will break the bank anyways and at his age, I believe his entry level contract is a one year contract. Sign him, 10 game in the AHL, out clause to return to the KHL. Everyone is happy. Personally, I think he makes the team out of camp.

Gorges, Spacek, Subban, Weber.
We resign Markov
Try to resign Wiz or someone else.
Add Emelin, that's 7.

Play the top 6.
Now if only we could trick the NHL this summer into swapping Hamrlik's contract for Spacek's, so we can keep the better Czech.

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01-17-2011, 10:38 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by #11 Saku Koivu View Post
Of course, I can't imagine Avtsin is too happy at the moment bouncing in and out of the Bulldogs' line-up, but that is beside the point. Avtsin and Emelin are very different cases.

At 25, Emelin is more like signing a UFA out of Europe than giving a contract to a prospect.
But Emelin *is* a Montreal Canadiens prospect. Who likely needs time in the AHL to develop his game. He wants a risk free contract. No! Who wants players to treat Montreal as risk free? This isn't the Florida Panthers! Pay the risk or play elsewhere.

If Emelin is as good as he thinks he is, why should there be any risk of going to the AHL? There are several open spots right now on the Canadiens roster for the blueline and clearly we would have used him now. And he has as great a chance as anyone, as Montreal would love to use his cap savings. If he's good enough to play in the NHL, why ask for such a stupid clause?

Because he doesn't want to work for it.

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01-17-2011, 10:40 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Toro View Post
Trade his ass if he don't want to come over with a 2 way deal
That's the attitude!!

Let's be as inflexible as possible with our players. That really works... they need to know who is boss. And if it means we have to give up on a potentially solid player just to make a point then that is what we should do.

God forbid we should encourage anyone to come here and give it a try.

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01-17-2011, 10:41 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
But Emelin *is* a Montreal Canadiens prospect. Who likely needs time in the AHL to develop his game. He wants a risk free contract. No! Who wants players to treat Montreal as risk free? This isn't the Florida Panthers! Pay the risk or play elsewhere.

If Emelin is as good as he thinks he is, why should there be any risk of going to the AHL? There are several open spots right now on the Canadiens roster for the blueline and clearly we would have used him now. And he has as great a chance as anyone, as Montreal would love to use his cap savings. If he's good enough to play in the NHL, why ask for such a stupid clause?

Because he doesn't want to work for it.
You're not making any sense...if you don't understand that it's a big risk for a guy that's established in the KHL to come across the ocean in a new country, with new teamates, etc then I don't know what to say.

I don't blame Emelin one bit personally...he's got it made in Russia right now, I wouldn't want to leave if it wasn't under the right circumstances either.

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01-17-2011, 10:42 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
God forbid we should encourage anyone to come here and give it a try.
Give it a try?

He's not asking to give it a try.

He's asking to be given a spot on the Canadiens or else. The team must give him a place in our seven defencemen or he can be allowed to bolt back to Russia. No adapting to the game. Play him or he goes to Russia.

Yes. Montreal is the one being inflexible.

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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
You're not making any sense...if you don't understand that it's a big risk for a guy that's established in the KHL to come across the ocean in a new country, with new teamates, etc then I don't know what to say.

I don't blame Emelin one bit personally...he's got it made in Russia right now, I wouldn't want to leave if it wasn't under the right circumstances either.
I'm making perfect sense. Hundreds of European players wish they could get a chance in the NHL. Vladislav Tretiak considers not getting a chance to play for the Canadiens when we drafted him due to communist Russia to be one of the things he missed out on his career. Players who never got the chance to struggle. Players who never got the chance to try. And Emelin wants to waltz in on a spot because he's comfortable in Russia. Either you want to play for the NHL or you don't. Stop dancing around the issue? You want to play? You play by the same rules as every player in the league.

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01-17-2011, 10:46 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
But Emelin *is* a Montreal Canadiens prospect. Who likely needs time in the AHL to develop his game. He wants a risk free contract. No! Who wants players to treat Montreal as risk free? This isn't the Florida Panthers! Pay the risk or play elsewhere.
Clearly you have a superiority attitude. Montreal and Florida are both NHL teams and, on occasion, Florida even beats us.

Develop in the AHL? I know the league plays a style closer to the NHL than they do in the KHL but c'mon... the talent in the AHL is also a notch below the KHL.


Quote:

If Emelin is as good as he thinks he is, why should there be any risk of going to the AHL? There are several open spots right now on the Canadiens roster for the blueline and clearly we would have used him now. And he has as great a chance as anyone, as Montreal would love to use his cap savings. If he's good enough to play in the NHL, why ask for such a stupid clause?
It's not an unreasonable request. He wants to give it a try. If it works, it is great for both sides. If it doesn't work, do we really want him in Hamilton? He isn't asking for a guranteed spot, he is asking for flexibility if he doesn't make it.

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Because he doesn't want to work for it.
Wow! That is quite a comment.

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01-17-2011, 10:56 AM
  #95
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I'm making perfect sense. Hundreds of European players wish they could get a chance in the NHL.
And hundreds of them have gotten a chance and have bad experiences forcing them to return to Russia without having been given a fair shot (at least in their opinion).

Quote:
Vladislav Tretiak considers not getting a chance to play for the Canadiens when we drafted him due to communist Russia to be one of the things he missed out on his career.
Not sure what that has to to with how things are today? Different times...

Quote:
Players who never got the chance to struggle. Players who never got the chance to try. And Emelin wants to waltz in on a spot because he's comfortable in Russia. Either you want to play for the NHL or you don't. Stop dancing around the issue? You want to play? You play by the same rules as every player in the league
Well that's where your wrong, there's no transfer agreement between the NHL and the KHL, so Emelin is just taking advantage of the current situation. So he doesn't have to 'play by the same rules as every player in the NHL'.

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01-17-2011, 10:58 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Either you want to play for the NHL or you don't. Stop dancing around the issue? You want to play? You play by the same rules as every player in the league.
He's not the first europeen to ask for such a clause... and most russian prospects have that clause in their KHL contract.

Also, the fact that he doesn't want to go to the AHL shows how much he wants to be in the NHL, nowhere else.

Stop thinking that everyone in this world would love to live in NA. Would you go live in Siberia for a year to maybe get a chance to work the same job you got at home but a little bit more well paid ?

Hamilton is a ****ing hole, people, no europeen likes getting stuck there and riding buses... when you already have a pretty decent career home, it's definitive you don't want to spend a minute there.

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01-17-2011, 11:00 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
Develop in the AHL? I know the league plays a style closer to the NHL than they do in the KHL but c'mon... the talent in the AHL is also a notch below the KHL.
Then he should be fine to make the NHL, no?

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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
It's not an unreasonable request. He wants to give it a try. If it works, it is great for both sides. If it doesn't work, do we really want him in Hamilton? He isn't asking for a guranteed spot, he is asking for flexibility if he doesn't make it.
Which is a guaranteed spot. What if it took 30-40 games for him to adapt to the NHL game? Then game 41 comes around, he comes back to the Canadiens lineup and gives us great depth for the second half of the season to be energized for the playoffs.

Think if this was THIS SEASON. Emelin doesn't work in November, January comes and with Markov and Gorges hurt, Emelin is now ready for the NHL game and playing. Think if THIS SEASON, Emelin doesn't work in November and then with his return clause leaves back to Russia when we could have used him in January with Gorges and Markov hurt. Would you really be just saying, "Oh. It was a very harmless clause. Didn't hurt the team at all!"

Bending to the player causes the team to break.

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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
Wow! That is quite a comment.
If it was not true, Emelin would be fine to join the Canadiens in North America and work hard for his spot, which includes if he doesn't adapt to the game immediately, taking the time to play with his future teammates to adapt to the game and come up onto the main roster.

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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Stop thinking that everyone in this world would love to live in NA. Would you go live in Siberia for a year to maybe get a chance to work the same job you got at home but a little bit more well paid ?
I once took the opportunity to work in Sudan because it was available to me. Less pay. So I would be the wrong person to ask.

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01-17-2011, 11:07 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
I once took the opportunity to work in Sudan because it was available to me. Less pay. So I would be the wrong person to ask.
Good for you... would you have liked it if they had changed the place where you were suppose to work and the working conditions were much less than what they offered... with no garantees whatsoever when you came back home ?

... I mean you get the point... I love travelling, I would live and work in other countries just for the fun of it... but most people wouldn't...

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01-17-2011, 11:11 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Good for you... would you have liked it if they had changed the place where you were suppose to work and the working conditions were much less than what they offered... with no garantees whatsoever when you came back home ?
If a part of my job was that if I wasn't doing well enough in Sudan I would be transferred to Iran, that's a part of my job and I have to accept it. If I don't like it? I go find a new job. Or I keep my current job. My daughter used to work at Wal-Mart and when she became an assistant manager, they immediately moved her 100km from the store she trained at. At the same pay. After two years of that, she went back to college. Point is, this isn't something diabolical in the real world.

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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
... I mean you get the point... I love travelling, I would live and work in other countries just for the fun of it... but most people wouldn't...
Okay. So why does Emelin even consider it at all? If he likes Russia, stay in Russia. Stay where you are comfortable. Don't try to tease things and say you will only come over if it's on your terms.

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01-17-2011, 11:12 AM
  #100
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Then he should be fine to make the NHL, no?
Maybe, but the best players don't always make it out of camp.

What if the Habs sign a couple of veterans on one way contracts? He'll be the last cut but cut nonetheless. An organization's best players don't always play in the NHL, contracts, age and experience come to play. Its normal for him to ask insurance about that, and I think he's in a bit of a different situation because he's not a 18-20 years old like, say, Avstin.

Even in the worst case situation that he can't consistantly play as a top6 d he could always be kept as a reserve 7th D. The role Picard currently has in other words. You can't have a team with 7 Markovs, you need some low pay defensemen that don't mind playing less.

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