HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Visnovsky to the Bruins

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-17-2011, 10:25 AM
  #1
DucksFan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 46
vCash: 500
Visnovsky to the Bruins

First proposal so be gentle.

To bos: Lubomir Visnovsky, 2nd, Sexton
To Ana: boston's 1st, Blake Wheeler, Ryder (salary purposes)

Why does boston do it? From what I've read the bruins are looking for a PMD. Visnovsky moves the puck very well. He's 5th in scoring among defensemen and can QB the PP. He's a good skater and is a constant offensive threat. Though not the best defensive D man he's pretty solid in his own end. Paired with a good defensive D man he's great to have. The 2nd will probably be in the mid 40's. Sexton is a small speedy winger with the heart of a lion. Too bad he lacks size.

Why does Anaheim do it? They're playing pretty well and might make The Playoffs. But if we make it to The Playoffs it'll probably be for a short run due to a lack of depth. They have to look at the future and Visnovsky's value is pretty high right now.
Behind Ryan, Getzlaf, Perry and maybe Lupul there's little depth at forward. Wheeler might be a good fit with Getz & Perry or with Ryan. If not he'll be a very good 3rd liner. The Ducks also take back ryder for salary purposes. His contract comes off the books at the end of the year so The Ducks have cap space to go after a UFA in the offseason.

DucksFan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 10:35 AM
  #2
mightyquack
Reverse Tank
 
mightyquack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Perth, WA
Country: Germany
Posts: 15,605
vCash: 500
We can't afford to trade Lubo. He's the only one capable of QB'ing a 1st unit PP.

Yes Fowler is having a good season, but he's only 19 years old. Not to mention Lubo and Lydman are bringing out the best of each other.

No reason for the Ducks to trade Lubo. Even if it's a short playoff run if we make it this season, Lubo and Lydman are going to be our #1 pairing till 2013 as far as I'm concerned. We're not that far off contending, it would set us back 5 years if we traded Lubo.

mightyquack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 10:36 AM
  #3
NinthSpoke06
HFBoards Sponsor
 
NinthSpoke06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chestnut Hill
Country: United States
Posts: 9,142
vCash: 50
I'd do.

NinthSpoke06 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 10:38 AM
  #4
Caballo Blanco
2014 Conn Smythe
 
Caballo Blanco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bergen
Country: Norway
Posts: 16,477
vCash: 500
Pretty good value wise. but Boston doesn't have enough offensive depth to pull that move. We don't even have a 1st line forward, trading 2 of our remaining forwards including our leading PP scorer won't help fix the problem.

Caballo Blanco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 10:41 AM
  #5
PADevil3034
Mooooooooooooooooose
 
PADevil3034's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,035
vCash: 500
The value's there, but I just question how effective the move would actually be. If the B's had great scoring depth, it'd be a no-brainer. However, I don't think they'd do this solely because of shedding the majority of their winger depth.

PADevil3034 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 10:46 AM
  #6
leafsfan7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 17
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
We can't afford to trade Lubo. He's the only one capable of QB'ing a 1st unit PP.

Yes Fowler is having a good season, but he's only 19 years old. Not to mention Lubo and Lydman are bringing out the best of each other.

No reason for the Ducks to trade Lubo. Even if it's a short playoff run if we make it this season, Lubo and Lydman are going to be our #1 pairing till 2013 as far as I'm concerned. We're not that far off contending, it would set us back 5 years if we traded Lubo.
As long as Lydman is on your top pairing, you're a little ways from contending.

leafsfan7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 10:51 AM
  #7
Kaoz
Ima Krejciist.
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartysBetter30 View Post
The value's there, but I just question how effective the move would actually be. If the B's had great scoring depth, it'd be a no-brainer. However, I don't think they'd do this solely because of shedding the majority of their winger depth.
Not so much of an issue.

Caron comes up to replace Wheeler, and Marchand slots up into a scoring line slot to replace Ryder.

That still gives them some decent depth on the farm as well with guys like Sauve, Arniel and Colborne.

Lucic - Savard - Horton
Recchi - Bergeron - Marchand
Caron - Krejci - Seguin
Paille - Campbell - Thornton

I'd love to have Visnovsky as well, so color me sold. I think it would work better were it Beleksey in the deal however, then Caron stays in the minors as depth.

Kaoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 10:51 AM
  #8
Hampe
The Hampster
 
Hampe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Charleston, S.C.
Country: United States
Posts: 6,432
vCash: 500
I would consider doing this, despite the fact that we're not really aching to trade Lubo. I'm kind of in the middle. Maybe the Bruins add a tiny bit more?

Hampe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 10:59 AM
  #9
Elvs
Registered User
 
Elvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pitea
Country: Sweden
Posts: 6,434
vCash: 500
The Ducks are desperate to make the playoffs, if they end up losing in the 1st round then so be it. The market needs them to make the playoffs.

You're forgetting Selanne and Koivu. Selanne is still a PPG player and Koivu is still a legit 2nd line center. Brandon McMillan has been a nice surprise and has been looking good on the 3rd line. The Ducks don't have any problems scoring goals. Besides, Ryder and Wheeler couldn't even replace the offense coming from Lubo despite being forwards.

Visnovsky isn't easily replaced either, which wouldn't just be devastating for this season, but perhaps for the next 2 years as well. Visnovksy is as important to the Ducks this year as Scotty and Pronger used to be. If one of them went down we always had the other guy to lean on. Not to mention, it puts an awful lot of pressure on Fowler to develop super quickly.

If the Ducks are out of the race before the deadline, I think it's still a longshot Murray trades Visnovsky. He's not showing any signs of slowing down and we will be competing for a playoff spot again next year.

Quote:
As long as Lydman is on your top pairing, you're a little ways from contending.
An All Star nominee this year, that's how good he's been. But yeah, I wouldn't count on him being this good 2013, but for this year he's excellent in his role. If the Ducks miss the playoffs it won't be because of having Lydman in the 1st pairing, it will be because having Lilja/Mara/Sutton on the 2nd pairing playing 18-21 minutes per night.


Last edited by Elvs: 01-17-2011 at 11:12 AM.
Elvs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 11:06 AM
  #10
mightyquack
Reverse Tank
 
mightyquack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Perth, WA
Country: Germany
Posts: 15,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leafsfan7 View Post
As long as Lydman is on your top pairing, you're a little ways from contending.
You clearly haven't watched Lydman this season. He's become a legit #2 defencemen.

Run along.

mightyquack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 11:16 AM
  #11
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 23,990
vCash: 406
Anaheim actually does this? What are they gaining?

joestevens29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 11:32 AM
  #12
Elvs
Registered User
 
Elvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pitea
Country: Sweden
Posts: 6,434
vCash: 500
Quote:
Anaheim actually does this? What are they gaining?
Short break down:

- Ducks gets a bad 2nd line forward who is overpaid and also a pedning UFA.

- They get a forward who has some upside, but has had trouble putting things together. A player like him can be found in the summer, although older.

- A 1st round pick, likely to be in the bottom 10 of the 1st round. Which sometimes ends up being Perry and Getzlaf, but a lot more often ends up being 3rd or 4th liners.

So, without Lubo the Ducks misses the playoffs, the 2nd round pick going to Boston ends up being in the top 40. So we're trading the #40th pick overall, a 60+ point defenseman with 2 years remaining on his contract after this year, and we get the #25th overall pick and an average 2nd liner. And that's just short term.


Last edited by Elvs: 01-17-2011 at 11:37 AM.
Elvs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 11:34 AM
  #13
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 23,990
vCash: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvstrand View Post
Short break down:

- Ducks gets an overpaid forward who is also a pedning UFA.

- They get a forward who has some upside, but has had trouble putting things together. A player like him can be found in the summer, although older.

- A 1st round pick, likely to be in the bottom 10 of the 1st round. Which sometimes ends up being Perry and Getzlaf, but a lot more often ends up being 3rd or 4th liners.

So, without Lubo the Ducks misses the playoffs, the 2nd round pick going to Boston ends up being in the top 40. So we're trading the #40th pick overall, a 60+ point defenseman with 2 years remaining on his contract after this year, and we get the #25th overall pick and an average 2nd liner. And that's just short term.
That's kinda how I saw it.

joestevens29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 11:34 AM
  #14
mightyquack
Reverse Tank
 
mightyquack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Perth, WA
Country: Germany
Posts: 15,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvstrand View Post
Short break down:

- Ducks gets an overpaid forward who is also a pedning UFA.

- They get a forward who has some upside, but has had trouble putting things together. A player like him can be found in the summer, although older.

- A 1st round pick, likely to be in the bottom 10 of the 1st round. Which sometimes ends up being Perry and Getzlaf, but a lot more often ends up being 3rd or 4th liners.

So, without Lubo the Ducks misses the playoffs, the 2nd round pick going to Boston ends up being in the top 40. So we're trading the #40th pick overall, a 60+ point defenseman with 2 years remaining on his contract after this year, and we get the #25th overall pick and an average 2nd liner. And that's just short term.
But all the good prospects turn out, this is HF after all!

mightyquack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 11:50 AM
  #15
DucksFan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 46
vCash: 500
Anaheim gains a 1st rounder. 2st rounders are always a good thing. Maybe you can package them to trade up. Wheeler could be a very good match with Getz & Perry. If not he can work with Ryan who makes every player around him better. Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, Lupul & Wheeler. Pretty decent if you ask me.

I know Visnovsky is playing great and if we don't trade him I'm fine with it. But looking at the future it may not be a bad move. Lydman, Fowler & Sbisa are playing awesome right now. Sutton is also starting to play better. By trading Visnovky we create a lot of cap room. Cap room which we can use to sign a younger D man (pitkanen for example).
Visnovsky has a big contract. If his game gets worse next season and the seasen after that we're stuck with $ 5,6 mil. I think trading him now when his value is high will benefit us in the long run.

I didn't want to include Beleskey because we're pretty thin up front. Beleskey will be a very solid 3rd liner. Something we really need.

Oh and Lydman is awesome. That guy is so underrated. He's a plus 26 or something on a mediocre defense. He's also chipping in nicely on the offense.

DucksFan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 11:56 AM
  #16
mightyquack
Reverse Tank
 
mightyquack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Perth, WA
Country: Germany
Posts: 15,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DucksFan08 View Post
Anaheim gains a 1st rounder. 2st rounders are always a good thing. Maybe you can package them to trade up. Wheeler could be a very good match with Getz & Perry. If not he can work with Ryan who makes every player around him better. Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, Lupul & Wheeler. Pretty decent if you ask me.

I know Visnovsky is playing great and if we don't trade him I'm fine with it. But looking at the future it may not be a bad move. Lydman, Fowler & Sbisa are playing awesome right now. Sutton is also starting to play better. By trading Visnovky we create a lot of cap room. Cap room which we can use to sign a younger D man (pitkanen for example).
Visnovsky has a big contract. If his game gets worse next season and the seasen after that we're stuck with $ 5,6 mil. I think trading him now when his value is high will benefit us in the long run.

I didn't want to include Beleskey because we're pretty thin up front. Beleskey will be a very solid 3rd liner. Something we really need.

Oh and Lydman is awesome. That guy is so underrated. He's a plus 26 or something on a mediocre defense. He's also chipping in nicely on the offense.
And what happens if we don't sign a FA d-man, or if we do one that's on a ridiculously inflated contract?

It's just not a good deal for Anaheim, we get minimal assets in return, I'd be looking for something better then Wheeler or Ryder tbh. And trading him for a first rounder, well what happens if the first rounder doesn't pan out? We're not a selling team so I don't see why we would trade him and leave us so thin on defence?

We're not even that thin upfront for next season, specially if Ryan stays at center. We give up even more defence, why?

Sutton has played better for the last game or two, but who says he will sustain that?

And if we make Fowler our #1 PMD then I feel we will seriously jeopardize his development, he's already under a lot of pressure being on that second pairing, I wouldn't be in favor of putting even more pressure on the lad.

I just don't get this at all

mightyquack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 11:57 AM
  #17
Elvs
Registered User
 
Elvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pitea
Country: Sweden
Posts: 6,434
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DucksFan08 View Post
Anaheim gains a 1st rounder. 2st rounders are always a good thing. Maybe you can package them to trade up. Wheeler could be a very good match with Getz & Perry. If not he can work with Ryan who makes every player around him better. Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, Lupul & Wheeler. Pretty decent if you ask me.

I know Visnovsky is playing great and if we don't trade him I'm fine with it. But looking at the future it may not be a bad move. Lydman, Fowler & Sbisa are playing awesome right now. Sutton is also starting to play better. By trading Visnovky we create a lot of cap room. Cap room which we can use to sign a younger D man (pitkanen for example).
Visnovsky has a big contract. If his game gets worse next season and the seasen after that we're stuck with $ 5,6 mil. I think trading him now when his value is high will benefit us in the long run.

I didn't want to include Beleskey because we're pretty thin up front. Beleskey will be a very solid 3rd liner. Something we really need.

Oh and Lydman is awesome. That guy is so underrated. He's a plus 26 or something on a mediocre defense. He's also chipping in nicely on the offense.
Yes, a late 1st rounder that is, in a draft that looks to be worse than the last 3-4 years it seems. Sbisa is playing well in a limited role, Sutton has been ok in a limited role for the last 3-4 games. But do you honestly think that:

Fowler - Lydman
Sutton - Sbisa
Mara/Brookbank - Lilja

Looks even close to being solid?

Visnovsky could just as well be a bargain at the end of his contract. I don't see how you think his contract could be a problem. Ryan, Getzlaf, Perry, Lupul, Lydman, Fowler and Hiller are all tied up until or beyond Visnovsky's contract expires. How much do you think he will regress? Into a 20-30 point defenseman next year?

Signing a guy like Wheeler is easy in the summer. Signing a guy at Visnovsky's level is more or less impossible. There's really only two options that comes close i july, Pitkanen and Ehrhoff. If Blake is bought out and Selanne retires or takes a paycut there will still be room to sign one of them.

Sorry, I just don't see the point in trading a consistant 50-60 point defenseman this year who isn't showing any signs of regressing only to get a overpaid and peding UFA and a 35-40 point winger only to move up 13-18 spots in the draft. You may call it a 1st round pick, but the differance between an early and a late 1st round pick is much bigger than the differance between a late 1st and an somewhat early 2nd.

A player of Wheelers caliber can be had in the summer, meaning that we could also keep Visnovsky in the meantime and try to make the playoffs this year and next year.


Last edited by Elvs: 01-17-2011 at 12:08 PM.
Elvs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 11:58 AM
  #18
Vipers31
Moderator
Advanced Stagnostic
 
Vipers31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bergisch Gladbach
Country: Germany
Posts: 9,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvstrand View Post
Short break down:

- Ducks gets a bad 2nd line forward who is overpaid and also a pedning UFA.

- They get a forward who has some upside, but has had trouble putting things together. A player like him can be found in the summer, although older.

- A 1st round pick, likely to be in the bottom 10 of the 1st round. Which sometimes ends up being Perry and Getzlaf, but a lot more often ends up being 3rd or 4th liners.

So, without Lubo the Ducks misses the playoffs, the 2nd round pick going to Boston ends up being in the top 40. So we're trading the #40th pick overall, a 60+ point defenseman with 2 years remaining on his contract after this year, and we get the #25th overall pick and an average 2nd liner. And that's just short term.
Completely agreed. I don't see the value or upside for the Ducks.

Vipers31 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 12:02 PM
  #19
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 23,990
vCash: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by DucksFan08 View Post
Anaheim gains a 1st rounder. 2st rounders are always a good thing. Maybe you can package them to trade up. Wheeler could be a very good match with Getz & Perry. If not he can work with Ryan who makes every player around him better. Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, Lupul & Wheeler. Pretty decent if you ask me.

I know Visnovsky is playing great and if we don't trade him I'm fine with it. But looking at the future it may not be a bad move. Lydman, Fowler & Sbisa are playing awesome right now. Sutton is also starting to play better. By trading Visnovky we create a lot of cap room. Cap room which we can use to sign a younger D man (pitkanen for example).
Visnovsky has a big contract. If his game gets worse next season and the seasen after that we're stuck with $ 5,6 mil. I think trading him now when his value is high will benefit us in the long run.

I didn't want to include Beleskey because we're pretty thin up front. Beleskey will be a very solid 3rd liner. Something we really need.

Oh and Lydman is awesome. That guy is so underrated. He's a plus 26 or something on a mediocre defense. He's also chipping in nicely on the offense.
Sure you open up cap space, but unless you acquire another in a trade there really is no gurantee that the cap space gets you one come July 1st. Plus anything close to Lubo's talent will probably cost you 5 years at over 6mil a year. Is that something you want to do? That is if you can even sign one of the UFA's.

joestevens29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 12:21 PM
  #20
Seguins Dragon*
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: In Carls Garage
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,613
vCash: 500
Bruins say yes...

Not sure on Ducks though.

Good proposal though, not often you see the proposer of the team perhaps having his team over pay

Or where the original proposal has at least some members of both teams agreeing

Seguins Dragon* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 12:50 PM
  #21
DucksFan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 46
vCash: 500
Ok if the value isn't there from a Ducks point of view maybe change the 1st to toronto's 1st. That may be a top 5 pick. And The Ducks send a 3rd back instead of a 2nd.

I'm not saying Visnovsky is gonna be terrible 2 years from now but $ 5,6 mil is a lot of money for a then 36-37 year old defenseman (not named Lidstrom or Pronger). Look at gonchar for example. I don't think many ottawa fans are happy about him being paid $ 5,5 mil.

Anyway at least I got one side to agree with me

DucksFan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 12:54 PM
  #22
Force951
Registered User
 
Force951's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 2,219
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by DucksFan08 View Post
Ok if the value isn't there from a Ducks point of view maybe change the 1st to toronto's 1st. That may be a top 5 pick. And The Ducks send a 3rd back instead of a 2nd.

I'm not saying Visnovsky is gonna be terrible 2 years from now but $ 5,6 mil is a lot of money for a then 36-37 year old defenseman (not named Lidstrom or Pronger). Look at gonchar for example. I don't think many ottawa fans are happy about him being paid $ 5,5 mil.

Anyway at least I got one side to agree with me
It isn't about the value coming back. Its about trading our #1 and having no one to replace him.

Force951 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 12:56 PM
  #23
mightyquack
Reverse Tank
 
mightyquack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Perth, WA
Country: Germany
Posts: 15,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Force951 View Post
It isn't about the value coming back. Its about trading our #1 and having no one to replace him.
Yeah spot on.

mightyquack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 12:57 PM
  #24
almostawake
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,982
vCash: 500
The Bruins can't take on a 5M+ contract that goes 2 more years.

CBA uncertainty + Krejci and Rask RFA after next season simply rule it out.

almostawake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-17-2011, 01:04 PM
  #25
DucksFan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 46
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Force951 View Post
It isn't about the value coming back. Its about trading our #1 and having no one to replace him.
True. That's why I mentioned going after Pitkanen for example. But if we don't get a good D man in free agency we're in trouble. It's a huge risk.

DucksFan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:30 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.