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Wolski deal a gamble/potential Grachev fallout

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Old
01-17-2011, 12:22 AM
  #51
wolfgaze
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Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
Mm, that's funny because Glen was checking his messages this afternoon and teams are LINING UP for Williams, Weise and Dupont.
.....

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Old
01-17-2011, 12:34 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
What kind of return do you think Rozsy could've fetched that would've been better than Wolski???
that is the point

we don't know

but the closer to the deadline the cheaper his cap hit right ?

for the record I am satisfied with the return in Wolski but am left wondering if "MORE" could have been had. I feel the same way about Sanguinetti

but c'est la guerre

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01-17-2011, 01:02 AM
  #53
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Grachev scored two goals tonite. 2 goals, one assist this weekend. I would not trade Grachev. This gives Grachev another year in the AHL to develop and work on his game. Grachev is a 3rd round pick. No pressure to rush him.

There had to be some risk in the Wolski Trade. You dont get a guy like Wolski for a32 year old 5 million dollar cap hit broken down defenseman without risk. The reward far exceeds the risk. Great move for Sather.

Now we just need Gaborik to start burying the puck.

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Old
01-17-2011, 01:28 AM
  #54
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I believe Grachev is on a 7 points in 8 game roll. Remember when you (not all you) Ranger fans were impatient with Sauer? Boyle? Eminger? and to a lesser extent, Gilroy. Heck, some people were labeling MZA a bust cause he didn't make the team out of camp and started out slow in the A. I am firmly in the patient camp. Grachev needs time to develop. If his current streak is any indication that he has found his game, he could get another late season call up just to gauge his improvement but otherwise, he will have to show up to camp next season and make it impossible for management to cut him much like how Stepan did. If not, no big deal. He'll keep on developing and we'll eventually see him up for good. Brooks is just trying to say anything so he can make his deadline submission.

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He either was upset because his partner and friend Marek Malik was being mistreated, or he couldn't handle Jaromir Jagr yelling at him at the bench, or he missed Malik, or he missed Jagr, or he couldn't handle playing on the last year of his contract, or he couldn't deal with the responsibilities of being on a multi-year deal worth $5 million per.
^ that isn't exactly what I'd call Pulitzer caliber journalism there. That isn't even what I'd call intelligent speculation!

from the Whale thread.

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byndblueshirts Laurie Carr
Biggest difference I've noticed in Grachev's game? Assertiveness. He's making plays, skating w/purpose, not waiting for game to come to him.
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Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
Nice to see Grachev finally waking up, 7 points in 8 games since the new year. If he keeps around a point per game ratio for the rest of the games then i would be thrilled.

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Old
01-17-2011, 02:11 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by xxxZENxxx View Post
I think what Brooks meant was that Grachev could be moved for some quality asset. Sather isn't going to just give him away (a la Sanguinetti). I am sure Grachev still has value around the league, given how slow Russian players and power forwards are known to develop. Grachev is both.
yea, the Red Wings will pick him up and he'll be scoring like Johan Franzen in the playoffs and people around the league will continue to wonder how in the world Detroit "keeps on doing it."

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Old
01-17-2011, 12:05 PM
  #56
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......or how the Rangers keep blowing it.

But seriously I think those days are in the past. I've said it once but it bears repeating: Patience has been the deciding factor in turning this organization around post lockout. We see it with virtually every game the Rangers play even when we lose.

I see a great battle shaping up for left wing next season between Feds, Wolski, Grachev and Krieder. It just wows me that the Rangers....of all teams have that much talent walking into camp to battle for a spot.

Plus the youngest blueline inthe NHL.

Plus the best goalie in the world arguably.

Plus all our other young talent.

Pretty good to be a Rangers fan right now.

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01-17-2011, 12:29 PM
  #57
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Highlight vs the baby ice chicks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn13Zz7J0WE

Grachev shows some nice hands at 3:40.

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01-17-2011, 01:05 PM
  #58
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I think Wolski has been awesome so far.

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Old
01-17-2011, 01:16 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Highlight vs the baby ice chicks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn13Zz7J0WE

Grachev shows some nice hands at 3:40.
Hey, look! A guy that can hit an open net!

Bring 'em up, Slats!

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01-17-2011, 01:24 PM
  #60
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I would LOVE to see Grachev shipped out in a deal for a strong D or C.

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01-17-2011, 05:51 PM
  #61
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Grachev will play w/ some playmaking wiz...if the NYR are patient it'll be Stepan...

They only have 1 power Center in their prospect pool at the moment as Werek is already listed by Mckeen's as a Winger but time will tell

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01-17-2011, 06:06 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
Mm, that's funny because Glen was checking his messages this afternoon and teams are LINING UP for Williams, Weise and Dupont. In fact, I heard there were some offers for a package of all three...

People talk about Grachev because he actually has, you know, some value as a prospect.
This is one of those posts I wish I had written. Spot on Zetterqvist!

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Old
01-17-2011, 06:11 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post

But seriously I think those days are in the past. I've said it once but it bears repeating: Patience has been the deciding factor in turning this organization around post lockout. We see it with virtually every game the Rangers play even when we lose.

I see a great battle shaping up for left wing next season between Feds, Wolski, Grachev and Krieder. It just wows me that the Rangers....of all teams have that much talent walking into camp to battle for a spot.

Plus the youngest blueline inthe NHL.

Plus the best goalie in the world arguably.

Plus all our other young talent.

Pretty good to be a Rangers fan right now.
It's a great time to be a Rangers fan. Next year should be fun...and 2012 could be a very good year.

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Old
01-17-2011, 06:42 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
It's a great time to be a Rangers fan. Next year should be fun...and 2012 could be a very good year.
Kreider and Grachev will prove to be very valuable in 2-3 years.

We need to focus on acquiring 2 key pieces for the future. I'm not talking about this year, i'm talking about the sustained success of this team.

A 1st line center - First and Foremost.
A top 6 forward
Depth

Our blue line will be scary in 3-4 years. Staal, Girardi, Sauer, Del Zotto, McDonough, McIltrath, Valentenko, Gilroy - all young and have the potential to be a part of it if they play well.

Hank hopefully has another 5-8 years of stellar play left in him.

Then we have Kreider, Grachev, Werek, and Bourque who all project to be NHL'ers.

In addition to Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Stepan, Wolski, Zucarello Aasen, Boyle, and Prust.

Wow.

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Old
01-17-2011, 06:46 PM
  #65
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An elite D-man, perhaps?
To the trade board!

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01-17-2011, 07:08 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
I would LOVE to see Grachev shipped out in a deal for a strong D or C.
I would LOVE to see Ranger fans exhibit an iota of patience. Mike Sauer anyone?

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Old
01-17-2011, 07:11 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
I would LOVE to see Ranger fans exhibit an iota of patience. Mike Sauer anyone?
i know and im willing to wait on Grachev unless its a nobrainer, not just any move for the playoffs.. Sauer was drafted in 2005. it took him 5 years from his draft year to be a regular player in the NHL... not all players make the NHL fulltime at 20 like Stepan did.

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Old
01-17-2011, 10:02 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
i know and im willing to wait on Grachev unless its a nobrainer, not just any move for the playoffs.. Sauer was drafted in 2005. it took him 5 years from his draft year to be a regular player in the NHL... not all players make the NHL fulltime at 20 like Stepan did.
Sauer was always effective as a defensive D-man... in juniors and at Hartford. He just couldn't stay healthy.

But Grachev, and Kreider too for that matter, have not shown consistent development in their young careers as scoring forwards. This is not to say that they won't make a Boyle-like breakthrough at some point, but that is far from a certainty. Yes, they have a nice combination of size & skating ability. But unless and until they demonstrate they can put the puck in the net with aplomb at their respective levels, let alone at the NHL level, they cannot be considered sure things.

I AM NOT giving up on them! I'm simply saying that most of us here are overstating their value, either as trading chips or top 6 forwards for the Rangers anytime soon. They are projects... projects with upside, but projects nonetheless. Neither of them is likely to step in and score 25 goals in the NHL next year.

That Brooks would suggest that the Rangers should not pick up a reasonably established goal scorer like Wolski because he might block Grachev next year is silly. Grachev isn't ready now, and he might not be for years. If he does pan out as we hope, Wolski won't block him. In the meantime, the Rangers should not miss out a chance to improve to wait for a project.

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01-17-2011, 10:45 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Just to make this conversation more interesting... Grachev scored 2 this afternoon and is now 4-3-7 in 8 games this month.
Thanks BRF - saved me the trouble of posting the exact same thing.

As I said in another thread, if the Rangers give up on Grachev now, it's idiotic and incredibly shortsighted. The types of things we haven't been doing since Gordie Clark has been here.

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Old
01-17-2011, 10:50 PM
  #70
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Memo to Glen Sather:

DO NOT TRADE GRACHEV

There's more than enough time for this young man to be an important part of the Rangers future. This is going to be the man that replaced Fedotenko and provides 15-15 per year from the 3rd line.

There's no need to move him today, it would not make sense.

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Old
01-19-2011, 03:59 AM
  #71
Jxmarts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Memo to Glen Sather:

DO NOT TRADE GRACHEV

There's more than enough time for this young man to be an important part of the Rangers future. This is going to be the man that replaced Fedotenko and provides 15-15 per year from the 3rd line.

There's no need to move him today, it would not make sense.
Yes. A realistic projection.

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Old
01-19-2011, 07:05 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Memo to Glen Sather:

DO NOT TRADE GRACHEV

There's more than enough time for this young man to be an important part of the Rangers future. This is going to be the man that replaced Fedotenko and provides 15-15 per year from the 3rd line.

There's no need to move him today, it would not make sense.
I think 15-15 projection is REALLY low projection for a player of Grachev's talent. If that is his projection then he should be traded as there is no upside to wait for...

There are tons of NHL players that can be 15-15 type players.

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Old
01-19-2011, 08:37 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
but I also feel there was an opening, an opportunity here that was missed by Grachev.
Maybe so, but if the Rangers are only going to give a prospect one chance when they're 19-20 years old, then something is wrong with this franchise.

That's not to say that I'm happy with Grachev's progress...but I'm saying that even if he missed a chance here, there *should* be another chance in his future provided he improves his game.

It sounds like he's playing better now, so hopefully he can carry that forward through the rest of the season and finish strong. I think he still needs another year in the AHL before we'll be able to tell what's going on with him, but we'll see how it pans out.

But I think it's kind of silly to make the Wolski trade out to be a big indication that Grachev is out of favor. It's just a team being smart...they shouldn't be sitting there and banking an important roster spot indefinitely on a prospect, even if they're high on that player. Wolski improves the team, which is what a GM should be doing.

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Old
01-19-2011, 12:19 PM
  #74
Pizza
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Maybe so, but if the Rangers are only going to give a prospect one chance when they're 19-20 years old, then something is wrong with this franchise.

That's not to say that I'm happy with Grachev's progress...but I'm saying that even if he missed a chance here, there *should* be another chance in his future provided he improves his game.

It sounds like he's playing better now, so hopefully he can carry that forward through the rest of the season and finish strong. I think he still needs another year in the AHL before we'll be able to tell what's going on with him, but we'll see how it pans out.

But I think it's kind of silly to make the Wolski trade out to be a big indication that Grachev is out of favor. It's just a team being smart...they shouldn't be sitting there and banking an important roster spot indefinitely on a prospect, even if they're high on that player. Wolski improves the team, which is what a GM should be doing.
Good Points.

I don't think Grachev is out of favor. He may be the object of frustration, but he has too many tools and is still very, very young.

Perhaps this is an opportunity to make a point with a young player.

One man's fate is another man's fortune. Frolov goes down for the season. So the man with opportunity right now is Wolski. Next time the man with the opportunity should be you.

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Old
01-19-2011, 01:38 PM
  #75
Orr Nightmare
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Ranger fans are so short sighted maybe Sather was right...u can't bottom out because there are so many uneducated fans.

Please look @ the Red Wings...they have 1st rounders in the minors for years until they develop and then get promoted.

Jimmy Howard spent 4 years in the minors.

Jon Ericsson spent 3 years in the minors.

Jacob Kindl spent 3 years in the minors.

Franzen spent 5 years in Sweden before coming over.

Yet...Grachev has been given less than a year and half to prove himself before the peanut gallery is shipping him off for the likes of Jiri Hudler and Jovo...propose those trades to the GM's and see how fast they pull the trigger.

Guy is 6'4" 220 pounds right now, has soft hands and is a good skater...let's get rid of that bum...amazing.

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