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Old
01-16-2011, 12:21 AM
  #51
The Head Crusher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaFats View Post
Let me get this straight: your point is, the team is already spending money on other bad players so they might as well add one more ***** log to the ***** bonfire that is this team?! OK bud. Good one.
Except Vandermeer's contract is over at the end of this season so we will need to find someone to replace him. Commodore is a cheaper replacement and arguably better.

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01-16-2011, 06:06 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by The Head Crusher View Post
Except Vandermeer's contract is over at the end of this season so we will need to find someone to replace him. Commodore is a cheaper replacement and arguably better.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=842141

Lots of ufa dmen that I'd take over Commodore. The guy is a pilon; not new NHL material. Hitchcock loved those kinds of guys which is why Commodore stuck around. New coach has it figured out and Commodore is gone.

We spend money on worse players and he is better than Vandermeer are piss poor reasons to support picking this guy up. I don't get this board's obsession with waiver garbage.

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01-16-2011, 09:21 AM
  #53
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Quick correction... Commodore is this year, next year and the year after. His contract ends after the 2012/13 season.

A couple of things to consider.

1. Columbus put him on re-entry waivers which means that they feel they can find a defenceman who makes about $1.8 mil that will be better than Commodore.

2. The Oilers cannot trade him this year without putting him on waivers first. Not only that, but if a team felt they could use Commodore they'd probably just claim him now.

3. In the future, if the Oilers want to rid themselves of the contract via waivers, the team who picks him up is responsible for the cap hit along with Columbus (not bad). If the Oilers have to put him on re-entry waivers, the Oilers and the new team would be responsible for the cap hit (Columbus gets out).

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01-16-2011, 11:53 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
3. In the future, if the Oilers want to rid themselves of the contract via waivers, the team who picks him up is responsible for the cap hit along with Columbus (not bad). If the Oilers have to put him on re-entry waivers, the Oilers and the new team would be responsible for the cap hit (Columbus gets out).
I did not know that. That's reason enough, by itself, to say no.

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01-16-2011, 02:08 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan Marsh View Post
You said we need a high end defender.

I asked if we had any.

you reply? How would you know.

Enough said. Might as well make due with what's out there, and if it's an upgrade take it. No, I'm not one of those who jump at every player at waivers. That's not the point.

The way I see it is: Defence is our weakness. Commodore could help it. Makes sense to me at least.
I thought you asked if any high end defencemen were on waivers/available. Obviously, none are on waivers, but I don't know if any are available.

I agree that defence is a weakness for the Oilers. I guess we disagree that Commodore could help the team. We have enough D-men for the second and third pairing for the next year or two (Peckham, Smid, Gilbert, Foster, Petry), especially with Commodore being signed for two additional years. If he's a UFA, fine, roll the dice to see if he can help, but not with his current contract, even at half price.

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01-16-2011, 04:10 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaFats View Post
Let me get this straight: your point is, the team is already spending money on other bad players so they might as well add one more ***** log to the ***** bonfire that is this team?! OK bud. Good one.
Let me help you get it straight then, because clearly you misrepresented what I was saying:

Commodore would be Vandermeer's replacement, not something we'd just be adding for the hell of it. Commodore is both cheaper (thanks to re-entry) and a better hockey player. So how is that adding to the problem?

With a cap hit less than $2M, bringing in Commodore is a risk this team is more than capable of taking even if he proves to be 3rd pairing quality.

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01-16-2011, 04:11 PM
  #57
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If the logic is that Commodore is only kind of bad and Strudwick is really bad, then yeah, he's our guy.


Last edited by Seedling: 01-16-2011 at 05:19 PM.
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01-16-2011, 04:19 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
Quick correction... Commodore is this year, next year and the year after. His contract ends after the 2012/13 season.

A couple of things to consider.

1. Columbus put him on re-entry waivers which means that they feel they can find a defenceman who makes about $1.8 mil that will be better than Commodore.

2. The Oilers cannot trade him this year without putting him on waivers first. Not only that, but if a team felt they could use Commodore they'd probably just claim him now.

3. In the future, if the Oilers want to rid themselves of the contract via waivers, the team who picks him up is responsible for the cap hit along with Columbus (not bad). If the Oilers have to put him on re-entry waivers, the Oilers and the new team would be responsible for the cap hit (Columbus gets out).
Hmmmm. I may have been wrong here. 2 more years after this and waiving means a 1.8M cap hit? We should give him a pass and play the kids.

Thanks for the info db.

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01-16-2011, 04:21 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
Quick correction... Commodore is this year, next year and the year after. His contract ends after the 2012/13 season.

A couple of things to consider.

1. Columbus put him on re-entry waivers which means that they feel they can find a defenceman who makes about $1.8 mil that will be better than Commodore.

2. The Oilers cannot trade him this year without putting him on waivers first. Not only that, but if a team felt they could use Commodore they'd probably just claim him now.

3. In the future, if the Oilers want to rid themselves of the contract via waivers, the team who picks him up is responsible for the cap hit along with Columbus (not bad). If the Oilers have to put him on re-entry waivers, the Oilers and the new team would be responsible for the cap hit (Columbus gets out).
1. Columbus is a budget team, and already aren't capable of spending to the cap. Commodore's demotion had less to do with him being no good, rather the fact that he asked for a trade and clearly wants out. If they've decided that he isn't going to be on the team (as a result of the trade demand), and can't work out a trade or have a team claim him on waivers, then re-entry represents saving $3.425M in actual dollars remaining on his deal. That's a major factor (probably the biggest IMO) that you seem to be leaving out here.

2. If the Oilers claim him, it would be because they think he'd be an upgrade on at least one of the defensemen currently on the roster, not as an asset to trade.

3. So if the Oilers are on the hook for $1.875M regardless of whether or not he's on the roster (assuming he gets claimed if/when they waive him), then why would they bother waiving him in the first place? Either way, at that price, and the Oilers' cap situation, they can afford to have him in a lesser role. The potential benefit of having a quality defenseman who brings a number of things they're desperately missing at a bargain price far outweighs the risk of him being no good (which I personally don't see).

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01-16-2011, 05:35 PM
  #60
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I love Smid's play over the last few years, but I think he could be reaching his ceiling with regards to capability. He is a great 4th defender, but I don't think he will be much more. Last night, Smid was getting powerplay minutes. Our past two coaches were not able to find any reason to play Smid with the man advantage, and I don't see why Renney does unless the team has decided to showcase him, and get the most out of his value while it is at it's potential highest.

Packaging Smid and Cogliano would potentially be a great deal as they will hold low cap numbers, as well as their youth. Both have established themselves, and on a team that should rebuild, such as Toronto or Florida, they could pan out to be wonderful assets. We do not need to see any more influx of prospects into the Oilers system. These two should be traded together to garner a defensemen who is roughly 26-28 and is established as a strong option on the second pairing with the ability to fill in on the first pairing. I don't know who fits this description and is available, but Tambo is able to find these players who are quietly available. Was there any indication that Lubo was going to be traded?

Anyway, picking up Commodore would make it so that the Oilers are able to move Smid. I probably could have said this in less words.

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01-16-2011, 07:57 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
Let me help you get it straight then, because clearly you misrepresented what I was saying:

Commodore would be Vandermeer's replacement, not something we'd just be adding for the hell of it. Commodore is both cheaper (thanks to re-entry) and a better hockey player. So how is that adding to the problem?

With a cap hit less than $2M, bringing in Commodore is a risk this team is more than capable of taking even if he proves to be 3rd pairing quality.
I didnt misrepresent anything. Your point was Commodore is better than Vandermeer, we are already paying Vandermeer, so we might as well give the less bad player dollars too.Your point didnt need any misrepresentation to be weak.

Commodore is a bum. Is he better than Vandermeer, Foster, and Strudwick? Arguably, yes, but that doesnt make him a good player and certainly not a player we should commmit cap space to. There are plenty of marginal defenseman on the UFA market this summer. If you want to pay a marginal player, lets at least find one that isnt a pilon.

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01-17-2011, 09:39 AM
  #62
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I think you have to take him at that price.

The bad influence is that he likes to go out to the bars with the young guys. You really mean to tell me they aren't going to do it on their own? Just doesn't fit Arniel's style of play and had fallen out last year, so this isn't really a shock.

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01-17-2011, 09:42 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaFats View Post
I didnt misrepresent anything. Your point was Commodore is better than Vandermeer, we are already paying Vandermeer, so we might as well give the less bad player dollars too.Your point didnt need any misrepresentation to be weak.

Commodore is a bum. Is he better than Vandermeer, Foster, and Strudwick? Arguably, yes, but that doesnt make him a good player and certainly not a player we should commmit cap space to. There are plenty of marginal defenseman on the UFA market this summer. If you want to pay a marginal player, lets at least find one that isnt a pilon.
We have plenty of cap space and if the Oilers think Commodore is a player they would want then they better take him. We've had problems signing guys in the past and we need to take advantage of moves like this, that is if ST really thinks Commodore can help this club.

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01-17-2011, 10:09 AM
  #64
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Next year as it stands I hope we have Whitney, Petry, Gilbert, Smid and Peckham. If we end up with Larsson, then one can assume he plays in Edmonton and that makes 6. If not Larsson, then hopefully a VERY solid young defenceman is brought in to really solidify the corps, someone that is a top 2 pairing guy. Yeah that won't be cheap, but we have the young assets to make it happen. I don't think I want Commodore as the 7th defenceman since he would be a 2 year burden. Apparently lots of his displeasure this year comes from being a healthy scratch, so I doubt it would take long to be an issue here. We also will possibly have Foster unless we find a taker, and I wouldn't want both him and Commodore in the lineup at the same time too often.

I think next year we need to have moved onto phase 2 of the rebuild, and realistically expect to make the playoffs. Not contend for the division, but EXPECT to at least be in the 6th-8th spot in the west, with a feeling that it is just the beginning. We start screwing around with bringing in a Commodore type at this stage of both his career and our rebuild changes the path that I personally thing we should be on.

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01-17-2011, 10:31 AM
  #65
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pass.
not needed.
not worth paying.

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01-17-2011, 11:17 AM
  #66
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Well he cleared that is kinda suprising. Thought someone would take him, even if it wasn't the Oil.

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01-17-2011, 11:30 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by dieselmonkey16 View Post
John Shannon on Hockeycentral Saturday's Sources Say, just said "he might be going to Phoenix". So, I guess we'll see how accurate that is. Anywhere but here as far as I'm concerned.
Apparently not accurate at all.

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01-17-2011, 12:00 PM
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wow I can't believe no one picked him up off re-entry. Glad the Oilers passed though.

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01-17-2011, 12:25 PM
  #69
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Woot! Drinks all around!

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01-17-2011, 12:59 PM
  #70
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I've noticed allot of players clearing rentry waivers and waivers lately. I think the entire league is in a cap hit rebuilding process. Good. That means younger guys will come up to replace them!

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01-17-2011, 01:25 PM
  #71
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I've noticed allot of players clearing rentry waivers and waivers lately. I think the entire league is in a cap hit rebuilding process. Good. That means younger guys will come up to replace them!
It will be interesting to see what happens when the current CBA expires. Last time all players were united, but now you might see the veteran players realizing they've lost their job security. Many serviceable veterans are being forced to try out for teams or sit out half a season before getting a contract. The new NHL has definitely shifted, and it's the vets that will suffer.

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01-17-2011, 01:39 PM
  #72
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It will be interesting to see what happens when the current CBA expires. Last time all players were united, but now you might see the veteran players realizing they've lost their job security. Many serviceable veterans are being forced to try out for teams or sit out half a season before getting a contract. The new NHL has definitely shifted, and it's the vets that will suffer.
Vets suffer but at the same time teams seem to be rushing younger players in before they should be.

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01-17-2011, 01:50 PM
  #73
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Honestly at this point in the Oilers current situation, Commodore serves no purpose. I'd rather we just cut Vandermeer and Strudwick loose too. Bring up Belle or Petiot and just rotate the kids in and out. Let them cut their teeth. We might as well go for the lottery at this point (as much as I hate the thought).

Having Commodore here for 3 years is senseless. If we were heading into the playoffs and needed a little insurance, I'd feel differently.

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01-17-2011, 11:16 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
1. Columbus is a budget team, and already aren't capable of spending to the cap. Commodore's demotion had less to do with him being no good, rather the fact that he asked for a trade and clearly wants out. If they've decided that he isn't going to be on the team (as a result of the trade demand), and can't work out a trade or have a team claim him on waivers, then re-entry represents saving $3.425M in actual dollars remaining on his deal. That's a major factor (probably the biggest IMO) that you seem to be leaving out here.
I'm not leaving it out... they still have to spend money to replace him, meaning they'll end up saving a lot less than that $3.425M. So what I said is 100% accurate. They believe that they have a defenceman (or can find one) that can provide the same thing for less than $1.8 mil (otherwise they wouldn't waive him because they'd be in the same position as keeping him).

Quote:
2. If the Oilers claim him, it would be because they think he'd be an upgrade on at least one of the defensemen currently on the roster, not as an asset to trade.
The point was brought up that he could be traded at the deadline. I was confirming that he cannot be.

Quote:
3. So if the Oilers are on the hook for $1.875M regardless of whether or not he's on the roster (assuming he gets claimed if/when they waive him), then why would they bother waiving him in the first place?
Again, the point was brought up the Oilers could waive him in the future and be rid of his cap hit (true) or re-entry waivers and be rid of his cap hit (false).

Quote:
Either way, at that price, and the Oilers' cap situation, they can afford to have him in a lesser role. The potential benefit of having a quality defenseman who brings a number of things they're desperately missing at a bargain price far outweighs the risk of him being no good (which I personally don't see).
It's not a question of whether or not he's no good, it's a question of whether he's worth the cap hit and will continue to be worth the cap hit down the road.

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01-18-2011, 12:43 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
I'm not leaving it out... they still have to spend money to replace him, meaning they'll end up saving a lot less than that $3.425M. So what I said is 100% accurate. They believe that they have a defenceman (or can find one) that can provide the same thing for less than $1.8 mil (otherwise they wouldn't waive him because they'd be in the same position as keeping him).
How is that 100% accurate? They didn't waive him because they felt they could get equal or better for half of his cap hit. They waived him because he needed to be replaced either way, and they want to spend as little of the $6.85M left on his contract as possible (plus half of whatever is left of the $3.8M he's owed this year). And because they're a budget team, and not a cap team, the money spent was more important than carrying an additional $1.8M cap hit. The only difference between the situation with Commodore in Columbus and Souray in Edmonton is that the Oilers can afford to spend the money to have their guy play in the minors. Neither were waived because the team had better options for less money.


Last edited by misfit: 01-18-2011 at 12:55 AM.
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