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Old
01-17-2011, 11:31 PM
  #1
Curtinho
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Trade with Ottawa

To Nashville:
Daniel Alfredsson
Mike Fisher
3rd

To Ottawa:
Patric Hornqvist
David Legwand

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Old
01-17-2011, 11:38 PM
  #2
braindead
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If I regret reading a proposal, will replying make it better?

Salary plus age plus needs makes this a bad proposal. A third never salvages a bad proposal.

Any propsal to bring Mr. Underwood to Nashville will fail unless Mrs. Underwood agrees to buy a chunk of the team for an amount far beyond his yearly overpayment.

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Old
01-17-2011, 11:41 PM
  #3
Soundgarden
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Legwand means a lot more to the Predators then Fisher does to the Sens. With Alfredsson getting up there and Hornqvist just breaking out this is a no deal.

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01-18-2011, 12:08 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braindead View Post
If I regret reading a proposal, will replying make it better?

Salary plus age plus needs makes this a bad proposal. A third never salvages a bad proposal.

Any propsal to bring Mr. Underwood to Nashville will fail unless Mrs. Underwood agrees to buy a chunk of the team for an amount far beyond his yearly overpayment.
Erm? The salary is basically the same, but you're gaining a better center, and a better right wing plus a pick in return for youth. Nashville could make a run at the cup this year (lol, maybe) and having Fisher + Alfredsson who are both doing better than their counterparts in the trade despite being on worse teams will only make Nashville better...and they get a pick out of it.

Just thought it would be something worth throwing out there.

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Old
01-18-2011, 12:58 AM
  #5
I Will Son
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You forgot to put the sarcasm smiley at the end of your proposal.

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Old
01-18-2011, 01:07 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenixM
Erm? The salary is basically the same, but you're gaining a better center, and a better right wing plus a pick in return for youth. Nashville could make a run at the cup this year (lol, maybe) and having Fisher + Alfredsson who are both doing better than their counterparts in the trade despite being on worse teams will only make Nashville better...and they get a pick out of it.

Just thought it would be something worth throwing out there.

Except that we're counting on Hornqvist to be a core of this team for a long time. He's only in his 3rd season. He's 24 years old. He's our leading goal scorer and 2nd in points.

Alfredsson is playing in his 15th year and will be near retirement (maybe retired) when Hornqvist is approaching his prime. He's 38 years old.


This does not help Nashville at all. Patric is helping us NOW, a 3rd round pick won't help for at least a year or two.

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Old
01-18-2011, 09:25 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
Erm? The salary is basically the same, but you're gaining a better center, and a better right wing plus a pick in return for youth. Nashville could make a run at the cup this year (lol, maybe) and having Fisher + Alfredsson who are both doing better than their counterparts in the trade despite being on worse teams will only make Nashville better...and they get a pick out of it.

Just thought it would be something worth throwing out there.
sorry, we disagree. it wasnt worth the time you spent typing it nor the time i spent reading it and replying to it... (so i guess the jokes on me, huh?)

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Old
01-18-2011, 09:35 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkle twin View Post
Except that we're counting on Hornqvist to be a core of this team for a long time. He's only in his 3rd season. He's 24 years old. He's our leading goal scorer and 2nd in points.

Alfredsson is playing in his 15th year and will be near retirement (maybe retired) when Hornqvist is approaching his prime. He's 38 years old.


This does not help Nashville at all. Patric is helping us NOW, a 3rd round pick won't help for at least a year or two.
Ok, I was just wondering. Maybe a 2nd rounder in stead of a 3rd? I just know that moving Fisher is something we've been looking at, and I know that Nashville is a spot that he would be open to.

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Old
01-18-2011, 09:52 AM
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I actually don't think the value is that horrible.

Fisher is better than Legwand (and he less years on his contract). Alfy is better than Hornqvist, for now at least. Don't know how much is skills are slipping, but he had 71 points last year in 70 games.

The difference in age of Alfy and Horqvist is what likely kills it.

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Old
01-18-2011, 10:18 AM
  #10
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Legwand>Fisher (for this team)

And Hornqvist is too young to give up for a midround pick and a guy who is soon to retire.

I would be interested in Milan Michalek though.

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Old
01-18-2011, 10:24 AM
  #11
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Do not want is right.

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Old
01-18-2011, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I actually don't think the value is that horrible.

Fisher is better than Legwand (and he less years on his contract). Alfy is better than Hornqvist, for now at least. Don't know how much is skills are slipping, but he had 71 points last year in 70 games.

The difference in age of Alfy and Horqvist is what likely kills it.
Why is Fisher better than Legwand? He had his career year of 25 goals last year and right now has 19 pints in 46 games, or a .41 ppg average and makes 4.2 million. Legwand has 15 points in 27 games or a .55 ppg average.

The two guys came from the same draft, Legwand has been more durable (he has played in 731 games to Fisher's 666) and has 80 more points. So other than I hate Legwand as a basis, how is Mike Fisher better than David Legwand? And remember fishers whopping 19 points comes on a team where he sees PP time with Alfreddson and Spezza, not quite Joel Ward and JP Dumont.

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Old
01-18-2011, 10:30 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I actually don't think the value is that horrible.

Fisher is better than Legwand (and he less years on his contract). Alfy is better than Hornqvist, for now at least. Don't know how much is skills are slipping, but he had 71 points last year in 70 games.

The difference in age of Alfy and Horqvist is what likely kills it.
Further more, Alfie has 27 points and Hornquist has 23 on the year. Is four points worth losing an early twenty year old forward not afraid to go to the net in return for yet another perimeter euro? Keep the tough ones!

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01-18-2011, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
Why is Fisher better than Legwand? He had his career year of 25 goals last year and right now has 19 pints in 46 games, or a .41 ppg average and makes 4.2 million. Legwand has 15 points in 27 games or a .55 ppg average.

The two guys came from the same draft, Legwand has been more durable (he has played in 731 games to Fisher's 666) and has 80 more points. So other than I hate Legwand as a basis, how is Mike Fisher better than David Legwand? And remember fishers whopping 19 points comes on a team where he sees PP time with Alfreddson and Spezza, not quite Joel Ward and JP Dumont.
In this context, Fisher is better than Legwand because Fisher's name isn't David Legwand

Legwand is hugely important to this club, and trading him away for another two-way center who has yet to have a better year points-wise than the offensively inept Leggy doesn't really pique my interest. I'd wager Legwand is better defensively, too, and it's guaranteed that Legwand is a better fit in this system considering it's the only system he has ever known.

Horny for Alfy doesn't work with me either. Patric has all of the upside between the two for obvious reasons, and taking a risk on an aging playing like Alfredsson at $4.5mil next season when we still have to replace Sullivan, replace or re-sign Ward, re-sign Goc, replace or re-sign SOB, and extend Weber isn't even close to worth it. Especially without knowing what we need to do about Lombardi.

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Old
01-18-2011, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
Further more, Alfie has 27 points and Hornquist has 23 on the year. Is four points worth losing an early twenty year old forward not afraid to go to the net in return for yet another perimeter euro? Keep the tough ones!
And that's in four fewer games played for Patric

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Old
01-18-2011, 12:33 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
Keep the tough ones!
So David Legwand is "tough" compared to Mike Fisher? Quite the opposite. Legwand is a perimeter player most of the time that gets tossed around physically. Fisher does the tossing.

I know we like to dream up every intangible for our first born son (Lewgand), but Fisher is better in most people's eyes.

The reason Legwands career highs are slightly better is because Fisher was on the 3rd line for the better part of this 1st 5 years in the league, where as Legwand was on a scoringline most of that time. As for the recent, Fisher scored 25g to Legwand's 11g in similar ice-time. He's got twice the goals this year, on an Ottawa team that is not clicking at all.

But here, reason is thrown out the window when it comes to our 1st born. People say they wouldn't trade Lewgand for Zetterberg. So the only way to solve this is create a poll on the main board. I think we all know what the outcome would be, but of course, they don't know all the "intangibles" he brings to the team such as "talking at practice", etc.

So create a poll, I dare ya

And I said, I wouldn't do this trade because of the age difference in Afly and Horqnvist.

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Old
01-18-2011, 12:35 PM
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I think Legwand's defensive game is getting underrated around here.

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01-18-2011, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
So David Legwand is "tough" compared to Mike Fisher? Quite the opposite. Legwand is a perimeter player most of the time that gets tossed around physically. Fisher does the tossing.

I know we like to dream up every intangible for our first born son (Lewgand), but Fisher is better in most people's eyes.

The reason Legwands career highs are slightly better is because Fisher was on the 3rd line for the better part of this 1st 5 years in the league, where as Legwand was on a scoringline most of that time. As for the recent, Fisher scored 25g to Legwand's 11g in similar ice-time. He's got twice the goals this year, on an Ottawa team that is not clicking at all.

But here, reason is thrown out the window when it comes to our 1st born. People say they wouldn't trade Lewgand for Zetterberg. So the only way to solve this is create a poll on the main board. I think we all know what the outcome would be, but of course, they don't know all the "intangibles" he brings to the team such as "talking at practice", etc.

So create a poll, I dare ya

And I said, I wouldn't do this trade because of the age difference in Afly and Horqnvist.
The lines Legwand were on his first 1-5 years were better than a 3rd line anywhere else in the league? Or the Smithson, Ward, Legwand combo wouldn't be a 3rd line (at best) for most teams? Really, other than when we ran the Kariya, Erat, Legwand line did Leggy have 2nd line wingers on both sides?

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01-18-2011, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
The lines Legwand were on his first 1-5 years were better than a 3rd line anywhere else in the league? Or the Smithson, Ward, Legwand combo wouldn't be a 3rd line (at best) for most teams? Really, other than when we ran the Kariya, Erat, Legwand line did Leggy have 2nd line wingers on both sides?
It comes down getting ice-time. I don't think anyone would consider guys like Kjellberg, Johansson, and Krivo anything special offensively (or deserving of a NHL scoringline roloe), but they too put up 'Legwand-eqse' stats on a scoringline here.

Legwand lead the team in ice-time per game among forwards last year (as he does most years). It was the first year he got less than 2m of PP time, and was eventually regulated to the 3rd line for the first time in his career for an extended period. And he responded to with a 40 game goal drought.

Like I said, the only way to solve this is to do a Fisher v Legwand poll.

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01-18-2011, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Soundgarden View Post
I think Legwand's defensive game is getting underrated around here.
I actually think it's the most talked about topic on this board! Not sure how you missed it.

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01-18-2011, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
It comes down getting ice-time. I don't think anyone would consider guys like Kjellberg, Johansson, and Krivo anything special offensively (or deserving of a NHL scoringline roloe), but they too put up 'Legwand-eqse' stats on a scoringline here.

Legwand lead the team in ice-time per game among forwards last year (as he does most years). It was the first year he got less than 2m of PP time, and was eventually regulated to the 3rd line for the first time in his career for an extended period. And he responded to with a 40 game goal drought.

Like I said, the only way to solve this is to do a Fisher v Legwand poll.
Look at the situations he was on the ice. Led the team in PK ice time among forwards .... 2nd in ES time for forwards .... 8th in PP TOI. Much of his time at ES was with Ward and Smithson. Legwand is capable of putting up decent numbers as long as he has quality linemates.

Most years? Last year he led forwards in TOI/g by one second. The year before he did. The three seasons before that he wasn't even in the top three in forward TOI per game.

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Old
01-18-2011, 01:41 PM
  #22
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I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone say they wouldn't trade Legwand for Zetterberg. When Detroit wins another Cup and Holland drunkenly calls up Poile I say we jump on that deal!

Legwand gets a lot of TOI, yes, but isn't always the leading forward on this team in that respect. He plays a lot of minutes because, usually, the players Trotz likes to match him up against get a lot of TOI. Toss in the PK and whatever he gets on the PP and you have a recipe for lots of minutes. I don't see how Legwand can be overpaid at $4.5mil, but Fisher is a $4mil player (edit: I know no one said this, but it seems that the biggest knock on Legwand is consistently him not being worth his contract). Legwand has one sixty pt season with another couple of high 40s tossed in (one of which he only played 64 games, and is the same year he basically carried the team to a post season). Fisher has one fifty point season with a couple of high-40s tossed in, and is currently only 4 points ahead of Leggy with 19 more games played. If one is overpaid they both have to be. At that point we're trading one overpaid, offensively inept, defensively-overrated player for another. Leggy is a couple of months younger, and knows the team. I'll keep him, thanks.

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01-18-2011, 01:58 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone say they wouldn't trade Legwand for Zetterberg.
I could bring up the old thread, but I will save the person the embarrassment.

I take Fisher over Legwand. Consistently goes in high traffic areas vs. rarely for Legwand. Physical v non-physical. Better goal scorer. And a similar defensive game. And has one less year on his contract.

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01-18-2011, 03:10 PM
  #24
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I understand wanting the grit, but if he goes into the "high traffic areas" without anymore more to show for it than Legwand has to show for playing soft what's the difference? The difference is you trade a guy who not only knows, but has shown he will sacrifice himself for, the system, players, and coaching staff for a guy who doesn't know those things only to save $500k, lose some defensive ability down the middle, and see a guy throw some hits. This team does need grit, but not this way.

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Old
01-18-2011, 03:18 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
So David Legwand is "tough" compared to Mike Fisher? Quite the opposite. Legwand is a perimeter player most of the time that gets tossed around physically. Fisher does the tossing.

I know we like to dream up every intangible for our first born son (Lewgand), but Fisher is better in most people's eyes.

The reason Legwands career highs are slightly better is because Fisher was on the 3rd line for the better part of this 1st 5 years in the league, where as Legwand was on a scoringline most of that time. As for the recent, Fisher scored 25g to Legwand's 11g in similar ice-time. He's got twice the goals this year, on an Ottawa team that is not clicking at all.

But here, reason is thrown out the window when it comes to our 1st born. People say they wouldn't trade Lewgand for Zetterberg. So the only way to solve this is create a poll on the main board. I think we all know what the outcome would be, but of course, they don't know all the "intangibles" he brings to the team such as "talking at practice", etc.

So create a poll, I dare ya

And I said, I wouldn't do this trade because of the age difference in Afly and Horqnvist.

one-I was referring to keeping the tough europeans....
two-who in their right mind would keep legwand over zetterburg
three-legwand has a higher ppg rate than fisher this year (.55 to .44) and over his career (.58-.51) You say Legwand played on scoring lines, but other than the 9-10-11 line for two years, he hasn't, and when he has, it is playing with the vlad orzaghs, scott walkers, and yachemnevs of the world. far cry from alfreddson, heatley, spezza, hossa, vermette and I am sure I am forgetting a few talented scorers.

I am not saying Legwand is a world beater, he is a good defensive centerman with speed and decent hands. I still don't know where you got the keep legwand over zetterburg mess.

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