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TB/TOR Trade Proposal

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Old
01-18-2011, 08:37 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by mohare View Post
for a 7.7 million hit per year the leafs could sign Brad Richards, and they could make that contract shorter term.
And they could have signed Thornton ... and they could have signed Nash ... etc

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01-18-2011, 08:41 AM
  #52
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A simple no from Toronto. Lecavalier makes $7.7m for the next 8 years (7 at big money) , is 30 years old, and has been a fair bit off a point per game in the last 3 seasons. Toronto obviously needs a #1 centre, but not at that kind of dollar figure.

I suspect that the most Toronto would offer up is Komisarek because he's overpaid (especially for the role he's playing), but even that's a real tough sell because of how substantial Vinny's contract is. Komisarek could problably be ditched much easier and for a contract that doesn't last 8 years.
Be real dude.. If Toronto could land Lecavalier for Komisarek & some schmuck prospects & mid picks that be considered a steal. Say what you want about Vinny's contract, but he's still a very good #1 center & would look real niiiice centering Kessel. This is exactly the type of deal Burke should be looking for, unfortunately the way Tampa is playing I highly doubt they trade their captain.

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01-18-2011, 08:45 AM
  #53
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Only Vinny can trade Vinny, no one else has any say in it. Full NMC means you cannot even threaten him with the AHL, like Boyle.

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01-18-2011, 08:55 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Be real dude.. If Toronto could land Lecavalier for Komisarek & some schmuck prospects & mid picks that be considered a steal. Say what you want about Vinny's contract, but he's still a very good #1 center & would look real niiiice centering Kessel. This is exactly the type of deal Burke should be looking for, unfortunately the way Tampa is playing I highly doubt they trade their captain.
Be real dude... Lecavalier makes $7.7m for the next 8 years, and has been on a decline over the past 2 1/2. He's not a really good #1 centre anymore, he's become a mediocre 1st line C that then got pushed down the depth chart to #2. He's currently the 5th highest paid C in the league (where 6th makes $400k less), and that does not seem destined to change anytime soon. Richards will be looking at a paycut and Stamkos might get into that range.

Burke should be looking for a young guy to grow with our team.....not an albatross contract to a declining player that is going to screw us over for the next 8 years -- the time frame when we actually have a chance to be good. If Toronto wanted to get rid of Komisarek, they could do it with a lot less pain.

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01-18-2011, 08:58 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Quality>Quantity
Except that Lecavailier is a figment of his former self and has one of the worst contracts in the NHL. Toronto does not do this.

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01-18-2011, 09:00 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Be real dude... Lecavalier makes $7.7m for the next 8 years, and has been on a decline over the past 2 1/2. He's not a really good #1 centre anymore, he become a mediocre 1st line C that then got pushed down the depth chart to #2. He's currently the 5th highest paid C in the league (where 6th makes $400k less), and that does not seem destined to change anytime soon. Richards will be looking at a paycut and Stamkos might get into that range.

Burke should be looking for a young guy to grow with our team.....not an albatross contract to a declining player that is going to screw us over for the next 8 years -- the time frame when we actually have a chance to be good. If Toronto wanted to get rid of Komisarek, they could do it with a lot less pain.
#6 in league scoring, #7 last year and if he makes it to free agency he will be the only first-line center.... Richards is going to be able to name his price and term. Think $8 million or a 10-year contract. He's earned it.

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01-18-2011, 09:06 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
I would Consider Komisarek + Mitchel + Lebda for Vinny, but probably not...

Vinny's contract makes him have zero value... can't see any team taking on that contract. Lol at the people who actually think he has value... Go Look at his numbers the past 2 years, he's getting older, his numbers are declining and although he is a legit number 1 centre his contract that pays him over 7.5 million through 2020 makes him impossible to move.


Are you kidding?

#1 He is a first line center, something the Leafs are 3 or 4 years from developing. To obtain one you would be paying a very similar amount and thats if the player wants to come

#2 He signed that contract before he was 35 therefore it's off the books if he retired and guys like Vinnie generally don't overstay their welcome

#3 He is only 30 years old

#4 You don't offer crap like you did to get a number one center, by doing that you insult the Lightning

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01-18-2011, 09:08 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BruinsButton View Post
#6 in league scoring, #7 last year and if he makes it to free agency he will be the only first-line center.... Richards is going to be able to name his price and term. Think $8 million or a 10-year contract. He's earned it.
Think again. Teams just aren't prepared to fork out that kind of money anymore (especially on veterans) because it makes them completely non-competitive with the 10+ year deals. Richards will likely be looking at a cap hit in the low 7s/high 6s on a normal deal (see Thornton/Marleau), or a mid 6s / high 5s on a retirement deal.

I'm not saying Toronto will get Richards -- simply that if a #1 centre is going to cost us $7.7m on the cap for the next 8 years and be Vincent Lecavalier, we're better off spending money on the wings, and running with Bozak/Grabo/Kadri and a veteran 3rd line C for the forseeable future.


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01-18-2011, 09:13 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Be real dude... Lecavalier makes $7.7m for the next 8 years, and has been on a decline over the past 2 1/2. He's not a really good #1 centre anymore, he's become a mediocre 1st line C that then got pushed down the depth chart to #2. He's currently the 5th highest paid C in the league (where 6th makes $400k less), and that does not seem destined to change anytime soon. Richards will be looking at a paycut and Stamkos might get into that range.

Burke should be looking for a young guy to grow with our team.....not an albatross contract to a declining player that is going to screw us over for the next 8 years -- the time frame when we actually have a chance to be good. If Toronto wanted to get rid of Komisarek, they could do it with a lot less pain.
99% of centers in the league would gets "pushed down the depth chart to #2" if Stamkos were on their team.

Richards will not "be looking for a paycut", he's having a career year & is looking perhaps to get his last contract (big dough, long term).

The only way Burke rids himself of Komisarek is if he sends him to the Marlies (ala Finger). No way any team takes him in a trade unless an equally ugly contract comes back to Toronto (Redden?).

You are the typical homer fan. Always knocking center options when your team is a basement team who has very lil prospect depth, no 1st round picks 2 years in a row, & your resident Sniper is rotting away w/ crap centers. Kessel would be ecstatic to get a legit center to play w/. Where is this "young center to grow w/ the team" coming from jfried??? You counting on B.Richards?? As a previous poster mentioned, you will be let down once you find out that another star UFA doesn't want to play in Toronto (Thornton, Nash etc..) Burke will have to take a chance on a prime aged center who perhaps is a lil overpaid (just as he did w/ Phanuef). That is unless he trades Schenn, which I dont think he will.

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01-18-2011, 09:48 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Realistically, it would take:

Kaberle + Reimer + 2012 1st if the Lightning even thought about trading Lecavalier. But they likely aren't, therefore, this is absolutely god awful.
No it really wouldn't. Vinny is nowhere near the player he was three seasons ago (since his injury). Decent player now (not a superstar anymore). Plus that contract makes it virtually impossible to get anything of value for him considering only a few teams in the NHL could even afford it (let alone fit it).

Its a moot point though. Vinny isn't being moved. Not because the Lightning wouldn't like to but because no GM in this league is going to be stupid enough to take that contract. Granted Vinny isn't a terrible player (like the Gomez contract) but that contract is a killer contract.

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01-18-2011, 10:04 AM
  #61
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I can't foresee any team in the league locking their cap into this willingly. Right now he is still only slightly overpaid, but if it slides any more, it will be a titanic failure for Burke, and he is still possibly looking at one with the Kessel trade. The minus stat in a great year like this really speaks volumes to.

Lecavalier was one of my favourite players not in a leafs uniform, as I always love high offence PF's. But his play the last 3 years, combined with such a massive boat anchor of a contract makes it way too risky IMO. I may consider trading a bad contract for him, as even now he would be great for us, but the long term risk is way too big.

He would only be just overpaid if continues to produce at a 70pt pace throughout the contract, and the leafs could deal with it in the same way NYR do, sending down undervalue contracts, but they don't do it so willingly.

It really comes down to the term. Not so much the annual cap hit. If it wasn't so god damn long, it wouldn't be bad to eat it for 2-3 years.

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01-18-2011, 10:11 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
99% of centers in the league would gets "pushed down the depth chart to #2" if Stamkos were on their team.

Richards will not "be looking for a paycut", he's having a career year & is looking perhaps to get his last contract (big dough, long term).

The only way Burke rids himself of Komisarek is if he sends him to the Marlies (ala Finger). No way any team takes him in a trade unless an equally ugly contract comes back to Toronto (Redden?).

You are the typical homer fan. Always knocking center options when your team is a basement team who has very lil prospect depth, no 1st round picks 2 years in a row, & your resident Sniper is rotting away w/ crap centers. Kessel would be ecstatic to get a legit center to play w/. Where is this "young center to grow w/ the team" coming from jfried??? You counting on B.Richards?? As a previous poster mentioned, you will be let down once you find out that another star UFA doesn't want to play in Toronto (Thornton, Nash etc..) Burke will have to take a chance on a prime aged center who perhaps is a lil overpaid (just as he did w/ Phanuef). That is unless he trades Schenn, which I dont think he will.
Yeah -- and it happened to Lecavalier before Stamkos even became good. He's taken a significant step back over the last few years.

Richards will be looking for the most money he can get. That will be a paycut because teams aren't willing to pay it.

You're the typical homer fan, suggesting that team should address a need regardless of cost. Boston needs a puckmover, that doesn't mean they should be trading for Brian Campbell. Kessel may be ecstatic to get a guy like Lecavalier, but that will wear off quickly when his cap hit forces us to create more holes on the team as his career declines. The young centress to grow with this team are Nazem Kadri, Mikhail Grabovski & Tyler Bozak. If he's unable to get a #1 centre with a reasonable contract, he'll have to develop one and/or go with a team who's strength is on the wings and blueline.

Toronto isn't going to win the cup in the short term, so there's no sense in taking on long term cap cripping contracts.

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01-18-2011, 10:33 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Be real dude.. If Toronto could land Lecavalier for Komisarek & some schmuck prospects & mid picks that be considered a steal. Say what you want about Vinny's contract, but he's still a very good #1 center & would look real niiiice centering Kessel. This is exactly the type of deal Burke should be looking for, unfortunately the way Tampa is playing I highly doubt they trade their captain.
Aquiring a player on the decline and with a big cap hit is far from a steal. You may want to look at his career plus minus as well. I hope the Leafs don't aquire him.

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01-18-2011, 10:40 AM
  #64
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To Toronto:
Vincent lecavalier

To Tampa Bay:
Ben scrivens
Clarke mcarthur
Mike komisarek
Jerry D'amingo
2 things with this

First, the Bolts wouldn't consider this. Komisarek has a bad contract and I doubt the Bolts would have any interest at all. Scrivens is really not needed, the Bolts have better young goalies in the system. D'Amigo is just a decent prospect and MacArthur is useful but not necessary.

Second, the Leafs shouldn't touch Vinny's contract. We already have a disappointment with a big ticket in Dion, no need for another. Vinny will never live up to that contract and he handcuffs you for a number of years.

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01-18-2011, 10:41 AM
  #65
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Aquiring a player on the decline and with a big cap hit is far from a steal. You may want to look at his career plus minus as well. I hope the Leafs don't aquire him.
See Phaneuf, Dion

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01-18-2011, 10:58 AM
  #66
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See Phaneuf, Dion
How old is Dion? How long is Dion's contract length vs Lecavalier? Has Dion played in the NHL for 12 years? Are you honestly being serious, because either you're trolling for Leaf fans as you usually do, or know very little of what you are talking about. Which is it?

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01-18-2011, 11:32 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Vinny Lecavalier is not a top end player anymore, and hasn't been for the past 2 1/2 seasons.



You've gotta ask yourself a pretty simple question.... would Toronto take Lecavalier for free? The answer to which I really don't know. He might return to being a good #1 centre, but he'll likely never actually earn his paycheque unless the cap skyrockets quickly. That's a very big 8 year risk, especially when Toronto has some potential in the system.

The package originally proposed is well beyond the "take him for free category", as MacArthur & d'Amigo are pretty valuable to the Leafs, while Komisarek could most likely be ditched for a guy like Andy Sutton at the very least.
Vinny's not a top end player anymore, but Komi is - jfried you are becoming a HF board joke

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01-18-2011, 11:37 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
Vinny's a great player, and it would take a lot more quality from us if we want him a leaf

He is kind of going down hill(might just need a place where he is the star) and 7.7 long term is not exactly something Burke likes.
St. Louis is a great player, Vinny is a good player who is very overpaid.

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01-18-2011, 11:44 AM
  #69
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Someone really needs to make a value of: Lecavalier thread, because I'm honestly not sure that he has any...paying a guy who may very well be in decline $8 million/season for the next 10 years probably isn't very attractive to anyone.

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01-18-2011, 11:45 AM
  #70
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irrespective of vinny's value as a player.....once he signed that contract his actual value plummeted. there are only a handful of teams in the nhl who could handle a player making $7+ million a season nevermind for the next 8 years or so. the fact that he might be productive now is only one part to consider for a team who would consider trading for vinny. they need to look at how he will produce in 5 years from now. the chances of him being like selanne or lidstrom at 40 is slim in my opinion so really any team taking him on is looking at 3-5 years of~60 point production + leadership + good lockerroom/team guy then a decline in points while still maintaining the same salary/cap hit.

if i were burke i would consider taking my chances as money is not really an issue and the cap is likely to go up enough over then 8 yeas that by the time his contract expires it likely will be an insignificant amount. having said that i would not mortgage the future for vinny.

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01-18-2011, 11:46 AM
  #71
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Ring ring

“Stevie it’s Brian, I’d like to talk to you about Vincent”

“Hey Burkie, I’m listening what didja have in mind”

“Well I was wondering if you feel the need to move his 80+m”

“Jeez I don’t know Burkie, he’s still doing a pretty good job for us”

“Steve lets just cut to the chase, would you rather have four firsts for Stamkos or would you rather move the Lecavalier contract off your books”

“Brian you’re not saying you’d offer sheet my guy would you”

“Not necessarily but someone else might, LA is hungry y’know, I’m not sayin they would, but I’ll bet they kick tires”

“did you hear something, I mean that would be a disaster if that happened, we’ve got some good kids coming up and things are really happening here, but I’m handcuffed by this budget I have to adhere to”

“Yep I know that and thats why I’m willing to help you out, heres the deal, I like Tyler Bozak he’s a good kid and plays well and maybe deserves a shot at winning it all and the bottom line is you still may not have the goaltending, but next year, you might if you go after Breezy. With Vincents contract still on the books you may have a hard time putting all those moves together”

“So whats the offer other than Bozak, whom I’ll admit is a good looking kid and I think will be a solid Pk/2nd line centre, but I can’t do this one up, I’ll look foolish”

“I’ll send you Tyler, Jerry D’Amigo and my 1st in 2012, you can send me back Vincent and your 1st this summer and considering the money I’m taking off your payroll another 1st in 2013”

“How about we swap firsts in 2013”

“Sure Steve, but only if you throw in you’re 2nd in 2012”

“Done Brian and thanks a lot, I really appreciate it”

“No problem kid and call me Burkie all my friends do!"
Maybe we can then turn around and trade our 2013 first for Gomez, why not offer our 2014 for Wade Redden. I think Burke has learned his lessons on dealing first rounders. I don't care what Bolts fans or any other fans for that matter think how good Vinny is, the contract would be a disaster for the Leafs. If Vinny wmpas to come to Toronto, the Leafs might as well give up of any hope of winning the Cup for the next decade.

Tampa seems happy with him at the moment so keep him there, that might his best fit

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01-18-2011, 11:50 AM
  #72
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Someone really needs to make a value of: Lecavalier thread, because I'm honestly not sure that he has any...paying a guy who may very well be in decline $8 million/season for the next 10 years probably isn't very attractive to anyone.
I think Vinny has value but you are not going to get 1st rd picks, high end prospects or good young players.

A package based around a couple of decent prospects and a decent roster player seems close. His contract and recent play make it very difficult for the Bolts to deal him.

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01-18-2011, 12:23 PM
  #73
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Yeah -- and it happened to Lecavalier before Stamkos even became good. He's taken a significant step back over the last few years.

Richards will be looking for the most money he can get. That will be a paycut because teams aren't willing to pay it.

You're the typical homer fan, suggesting that team should address a need regardless of cost. Boston needs a puckmover, that doesn't mean they should be trading for Brian Campbell. Kessel may be ecstatic to get a guy like Lecavalier, but that will wear off quickly when his cap hit forces us to create more holes on the team as his career declines. The young centress to grow with this team are Nazem Kadri, Mikhail Grabovski & Tyler Bozak. If he's unable to get a #1 centre with a reasonable contract, he'll have to develop one and/or go with a team who's strength is on the wings and blueline.

Toronto isn't going to win the cup in the short term, so there's no sense in taking on long term cap cripping contracts.


I could have a field day responding to your lunacy but I'll stick to your last remark.

IF that's the case then why did Burke trade for Kessel??????????????

If the vision is long term, then why not go w/ Kadri, Schenn, Seguin, (this years 1st).??

& you of all people, arent you the guy shooting down EVERY Kaberle proposal saying "you dont want picks & prospects but players who will help the Leafs win now" Im 100% sure if I take the time I can pull up ten posts of yours saying such.

& "before Stamkos became good"???? He was good the 2nd half of his rookie year, he scored 51 goals his sophmore year... so when did Stamkos bump Lecavalier? From juniors??


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01-18-2011, 12:39 PM
  #74
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Deal. Where do we sign?

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01-18-2011, 01:18 PM
  #75
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Vinny's not a top end player anymore, but Komi is - jfried you are becoming a HF board joke
Where did I say that Komisarek is a top end player? I said that he's a top 4 defenceman on most teams, and would happen to play on the top pair of a few teams.

Vinny's obviously a better forward than Komisarek is a defenceman, but it doesn't justify $3.2m more in cap hit and 5 more years on his contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
[/B]

I could have a field day responding to your lunacy but I'll stick to your last remark.

IF that's the case then why did Burke trade for Kessel??????????????

If the vision is long term, then why not go w/ Kadri, Schenn, Seguin, (this years 1st).??

& you of all people, arent you the guy shooting down EVERY Kaberle proposal saying "you dont want picks & prospects but players who will help the Leafs win now" Im 100% sure if I take the time I can pull up ten posts of yours saying such.

& "before Stamkos became good"???? He was good the 2nd half of his rookie year, he scored 51 goals his sophmore year... so when did Stamkos bump Lecavalier? From juniors??
Burke traded for Kessel because he had no potential high end goalscorers in the system. The vision is long term, in the sense of trying to win now without sacrificing the future, and that trade was made with a long term objective. That pick wasn't Tyler Seguin when it was traded, and if both picks ended up outside of the top 5, then Burke would've been foolish to not make the trade.

That being said, Toronto doesn't want prospects / picks. They want young players who can help them win now and in the future. Toronto needs to resign Kaberle.

Lecavalier stopped producing as soon as Stamkos arrived. If he was still a top player he would've found a way to compliment Stamkos (especially on the powerplay).

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