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Globe and Mail ranking defensemen and defensive forwards

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Old
01-14-2011, 10:34 AM
  #1
SuburbanRhythm
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Globe and Mail ranking defensemen and defensive forwards

As always, there is not a perfect statistic to measure defensive impact. Still nice to see Orpik ranked #1, and Cooke and Talbot #4 and #5 at forward.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1867013/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1868922/

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Old
01-14-2011, 01:39 PM
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TravisUlrich
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As I've already stated, I'd love to have Brooks Laich (ranked #1 defensive forward) on the Pens next season. That's a pretty big statement for him to be that highly ranked on a team like the Caps.

Funny, Brooks and Brooks are both #1.

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01-14-2011, 02:24 PM
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Crosberry87
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Ryan Kesler at #28? Please.

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Old
01-14-2011, 03:01 PM
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eXile59
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Junk. All these stats are based on QualComp which is described as...."Average Relative Plus-Minus of opposing players, weighted by head-to-head ice time."

Anything based off of +/- is not going to be a correct representation of a players true defensive worth.

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Old
01-14-2011, 03:47 PM
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Coach John McGuirk
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Apparently Spacek, and some guy named Jason Garrison are better D-men than Shea Weber and Ryan Suter. And many, many defensemen are better than Lidstrom.

Just can't take this seriously.

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01-14-2011, 04:09 PM
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I saw Spacek very early on the D-man list... you cannot just judge defensive ability on stats. Can't put any stock into this.

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01-17-2011, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
I saw Spacek very early on the D-man list... you cannot just judge defensive ability on stats. Can't put any stock into this.
This. "Defensive" stats are garbage.

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01-17-2011, 02:07 PM
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Pick87your71Poison
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Wow these lists mean nothing...

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Old
01-18-2011, 08:37 AM
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It's really a lot more accurate than you all think, for the defensemen a least. The major reason for the disparity your all noticing is PK and Goals against success. Orpik is booned by our #1 rank, as well as letang and Martin. Detroit is 18th in the league and Lidstrom has been on for the majority of the PP goals against. Even Chara and the Nashville boys have been on the ice for the majority of their PP goals against and many more at ES.

ES goals against this year.
Orpik - 19
Tanger - 25
Chara - 28
Spacek - 24
Weber - 30
Suter - 16 (only 34 of 45 games)
Lidstrom - 34
So yea, at ES Weber, Chara, and Lidstrom are poo compared to Orpik this year defensively.

PP goals against this year.
Orpik - 7
Tanger - 8
Chara - 14
Spacek - 11
Weber - 8
Suter - 7 (only 34 of 45 games)
Lidstrom - 14
So yea again, they're all worse on the PK too.

And these stats don't accopunt for QualComp, which is actually helping the other guys more than it is our players. Specific to this year, this ranking is pretty good. Orpik leads the league in both major "goal against" categories.

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Old
01-18-2011, 09:38 AM
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AquaticBirdman
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PRetty laughable list. It's rather difficult to statistically quantify someone's defensive ability. The best way to do this is by actually WATCHING these guys play the game, which is why I really don't buy into these lists at all.

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01-18-2011, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by AcquaticBirdMan66 View Post
PRetty laughable list. It's rather difficult to statistically quantify someone's defensive ability. The best way to do this is by actually WATCHING these guys play the game, which is why I really don't buy into these lists at all.
I love how certain statistics are just thrown out the window around here when they don't coencide with everyones opinions (like all my stats about Jayblow being uber-overrated, who btw doesn't sniff the top 30 in this list). Statistics are facts, regardless of how much weight you think they deserve. Look at the goals against stats I listed. It's clear that list reflects the reality of THIS season. This isn't ranking these guys careers, it's ranking their play this season.

Not a hard concept to understand. I honestly feel like there's such a back lash towards what eklund does that it carries over to pieces like this one and everyone gets their rocks of bashing it like its the cool thing to do. Of any "rankings" type articles this is probably one of the better ones, and it uses more informative and specific metrics, going beyond the simple stats you'll find on nhl.com. I think it's really really really ridiculous how bitter the response has been to this article. Wake up folks, things change year by year and Nick Lidstrom is 40 and a -1 this year. One of, if not the only, time he's ever been a minus this far into the season. But lets all pretend he's the exact same norris winner of 3-4 years ago and disregard +/- and goals against because they're stats we don't think matter...

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Old
01-18-2011, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by sina220 View Post
I love how certain statistics are just thrown out the window around here when they don't coencide with everyones opinions (like all my stats about Jayblow being uber-overrated, who btw doesn't sniff the top 30 in this list). Statistics are facts, regardless of how much weight you think they deserve. Look at the goals against stats I listed. It's clear that list reflects the reality of THIS season. This isn't ranking these guys careers, it's ranking their play this season.

Not a hard concept to understand. I honestly feel like there's such a back lash towards what eklund does that it carries over to pieces like this one and everyone gets their rocks of bashing it like its the cool thing to do. Of any "rankings" type articles this is probably one of the better ones, and it uses more informative and specific metrics, going beyond the simple stats you'll find on nhl.com. I think it's really really really ridiculous how bitter the response has been to this article. Wake up folks, things change year by year and Nick Lidstrom is 40 and a -1 this year. One of, if not the only, time he's ever been a minus this far into the season. But lets all pretend he's the exact same norris winner of 3-4 years ago and disregard +/- and goals against because they're stats we don't think matter...
Except you are missing the fact that there are 5 other people on the ice besides the one player in question (including the goalie).

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Old
01-18-2011, 10:46 AM
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I really want Laich on the Pens.

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Old
01-18-2011, 10:47 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
I really want Laich on the Pens.
You could say that you... Laich him...


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Old
01-18-2011, 10:52 AM
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I'll just leave this here.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/2010/gvt....gp=&team=&pos=

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Old
01-18-2011, 11:33 AM
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I hate statistics

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