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Briere and Hartnell in trouble with Campbell?

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Old
01-18-2011, 11:00 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
yeah I also hate when people feel the need to fight after every hit (like Doughty on Hall the other day.)

I was surprised Atlanta didn't try and Mug OD after he hit kane cleanly

And as Jester said, Pittsburgh leads the league in fighting majors, and really don't play pond hockey. Their team consists of 10 grinding forwards out of 12 so they can't.
When Timonen is getting nailed into the boards, legal or not, there should be players coming to defend him, yes. And the progression of the Pens is in part due to guys like Rupp, Engelland, and Godard defending their teammates after several years of guys getting run with no defense of their teammates.

The evolution of the game is that it is still a physical game and teams need to address hits to their best players, legal or not. It is still about imposing your will on teams.

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01-18-2011, 11:03 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
When Timonen is getting nailed into the boards, legal or not, there should be players coming to defend him, yes. And the progression of the Pens is in part due to guys like Rupp, Engelland, and Godard defending their teammates after several years of guys getting run with no defense of their teammates.

The evolution of the game is that it is still a physical game and teams need to address hits to their best players, legal or not. It is still about imposing your will on teams.
The progression? I mean, it isn't like they... ya know, reached back-to-back Cup Finals and won one.

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01-18-2011, 11:06 AM
  #103
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6'2", 192 lbs is no heavy weight. Bottom line is Richards wussed out in the moment and Timonen was left on the ice after being hit into the boards which could have resulted in an injury. Richards skated away like everything was honkey-dorey, sorry, do not agree considering that Carle had been hit and Prust was already involved in an altercation previously. When these guys know no one is going to hold them accountable the eventual result will be a Flyer does get injured.
Prust hasn't been 192lbs since he was a junior. Look at Prust compared to guys like Carter (your boy) and JVR who are 6'2"-6'3" 210lbs. Prust is more of a middleweight fighter but he would kill Richards ala Asham or Bieksa.

Prust probably won't really have to answer for his hit on Kimo because Boogey will be back in the line up by the next game and Walker will be out with Pronger back. It was a clean hard hit. Flyers will make Gabby, Wolski or Stepan types pay the next game from a guy like Hartnell, Carcillo or Powe.

I am willing to bet OD steps up to Avery next game.

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01-18-2011, 11:08 AM
  #104
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Rupp Engelland and Godard sure do rock at pond hockey....How many instigators do they have?

you are talking in circles man. Richards most likely did challenge him to a fight, but Prust wouldn't go. Richards didn't feel like taking extra penalties for instigating and instigating with a visor. Good call by our Captain, who also had the GWG in the game.

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01-18-2011, 11:13 AM
  #105
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The progression? I mean, it isn't like they... ya know, reached back-to-back Cup Finals and won one.
It is the last minute of the game, Timonen gets nailed big into the boards, Prust went out of his way to hit him. No retribution? I do not get it.

Progression to getting guys who will muck it up, they had been a pretty soft team. They went out and got guys like Cooke who will help keep their Malkin's and Crosby's on the ice healthy. Over the last couple years they have continued with that theory of team.

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01-18-2011, 11:15 AM
  #106
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It is the last minute of the game, Timonen gets nailed big into the boards, Prust went out of his way to hit him. No retribution? I do not get it.

Progression to getting guys who will muck it up, they had been a pretty soft team. They went out and got guys like Cooke who will help keep their Malkin's and Crosby's on the ice healthy. Over the last couple years they have continued with that theory of team.
Progression to being a less skilled team, and, therefore, less dangerous? Do you not realize how silly your argument is here?

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01-18-2011, 11:18 AM
  #107
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The flyers have plenty of toughness, and under Lavi it is much more controlled than with Stevens. He knows when to let the boys muck it up, and when to hold back

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01-18-2011, 11:18 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
When Timonen is getting nailed into the boards, legal or not, there should be players coming to defend him, yes. And the progression of the Pens is in part due to guys like Rupp, Engelland, and Godard defending their teammates after several years of guys getting run with no defense of their teammates.

The evolution of the game is that it is still a physical game and teams need to address hits to their best players, legal or not. It is still about imposing your will on teams.
I agree with you. Sometimes you have to lose a battle (a game) to win the war (the cup). If the Flyers jump a guy and ended up losing a game I would be OK with it.

I don't think Sunday's game was a good example of that. Carle was picked out of a scrum but he wasn't a traget getting run all game. It was cheap but something that could be dealt with another time. Prust hit was clean but I would be OK with them jumping him (based on who was on the ice) but I wouldn't want Richards to fight Prust one on one. It wouldn't serve the purpose you are looking for - deterent to big hits on your key players.

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01-18-2011, 11:19 AM
  #109
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I agree with cartsiephan that a stronger response to a potentially dangerous charge by Prust, especially on an essential player like Timonen, should have elicited a stronger response. I was disappointed to see only a couple of bumps and some yapping from Richards. This wasn't akin to O'Donnell taking out Kane with a clean hockey check. Prust lined up Timonen with no regard to a hockey play; he charged at him and slammed into an off-balance Timonen at a dangerous distance from the corner boards.

There were fewer than 5 clicks on the clock, so any penalties would, for all intents and purposes, have been academic. Rather than Richards being the one to challenge Prust, it should have been the whole team making a beeline to him. Plus, they would have to be careful about instigating a fight, as they would then be liable to a game misconduct. But there was plenty of reason to make the point to Prust.

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01-18-2011, 11:22 AM
  #110
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It is the last minute of the game, Timonen gets nailed big into the boards, Prust went out of his way to hit him. No retribution? I do not get it.

Progression to getting guys who will muck it up, they had been a pretty soft team. They went out and got guys like Cooke who will help keep their Malkin's and Crosby's on the ice healthy. Over the last couple years they have continued with that theory of team.
They also only have the cap space to sign Grinders. They would much rather have another goal scorer then Asham, Godard, Englaand. They signed freakin Comrie and Asham because they have no cap space.

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01-18-2011, 11:22 AM
  #111
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Look I don't care what your philosophy is, you don't take a penalty on purpose with a few minutes left to go in a one goal hockey game. Period. The team is there to win first and send messages second.

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01-18-2011, 11:30 AM
  #112
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I agree with cartsiephan that a stronger response to a potentially dangerous charge by Prust, especially on an essential player like Timonen, should have elicited a stronger response. I was disappointed to see only a couple of bumps and some yapping from Richards. This wasn't akin to O'Donnell taking out Kane with a clean hockey check. Prust lined up Timonen with no regard to a hockey play; he charged at him and slammed into an off-balance Timonen at a dangerous distance from the corner boards.

There were fewer than 5 clicks on the clock, so any penalties would, for all intents and purposes, have been academic. Rather than Richards being the one to challenge Prust, it should have been the whole team making a beeline to him. Plus, they would have to be careful about instigating a fight, as they would then be liable to a game misconduct. But there was plenty of reason to make the point to Prust.
Not every hit is deserving of an instigator, but less than a minute left in the game and possibly the most valuable asset on the blueline gets hammered dangerously into the boards it is a no-brainer IMO. I have no issue with the hit, I have an issue that Prust eyed up Timonen and labeled him into the boards in a dangerous position. If Timonen had been injured and 8-10 weeks on the IR would folks still be so casual?

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01-18-2011, 11:35 AM
  #113
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Not every hit is deserving of an instigator, but less than a minute left in the game and possibly the most valuable asset on the blueline gets hammered dangerously into the boards it is a no-brainer IMO. I have no issue with the hit, I have an issue that Prust eyed up Timonen and labeled him into the boards in a dangerous position. If Timonen had been injured and 8-10 weeks on the IR would folks still be so casual?
Why wouldn't Prust eye up Timonen? That's exactly who you WANT to hit if your the opposition.

The idea that guys like Prust aren't going to do that if you go and fight them is completely ridiculous. Guys like Prust justify their roster spot (and thus job) by being willing to go and do that. That's the fallacy of the enforcer and response... if guys like Prust could be cowed by a response from the other team, then they wouldn't be in the NHL and someone else would be.

Do you really not think there is someone else in the AHL that can pop 20-25 pts a year? Prust's job description is to go hit guys like Timonen. He's not going to stop doing that.

So, you have two options:

1) Give up the faulty belief that you are going to stop that from happening by engaging in stupid activities that can only hurt your own team further.

2) Keep shouting into the wind about the "protection" a team needs to offer for those types of plays.

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01-18-2011, 11:43 AM
  #114
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Why wouldn't Prust eye up Timonen? That's exactly who you WANT to hit if your the opposition.

The idea that guys like Prust aren't going to do that if you go and fight them is completely ridiculous. Guys like Prust justify their roster spot (and thus job) by being willing to go and do that. That's the fallacy of the enforcer and response... if guys like Prust could be cowed by a response from the other team, then they wouldn't be in the NHL and someone else would be.

Do you really not think there is someone else in the AHL that can pop 20-25 pts a year? Prust's job description is to go hit guys like Timonen. He's not going to stop doing that.

So, you have two options:

1) Give up the faulty belief that you are going to stop that from happening by engaging in stupid activities that can only hurt your own team further.

2) Keep shouting into the wind about the "protection" a team needs to offer for those types of plays.

Thats what I dont think people here get. These guys dont get scared... If we go and hit Prust, he isnt going to huddle into a ball, quit hockey, and go watch Lifetime. Us hitting him illegally with a few minutes left would get us a penalty, and get him even madder and hit our star players more. Players dont get as scared as many people here think.

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01-18-2011, 11:50 AM
  #115
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Why wouldn't Prust eye up Timonen? That's exactly who you WANT to hit if your the opposition.

The idea that guys like Prust aren't going to do that if you go and fight them is completely ridiculous. Guys like Prust justify their roster spot (and thus job) by being willing to go and do that. That's the fallacy of the enforcer and response... if guys like Prust could be cowed by a response from the other team, then they wouldn't be in the NHL and someone else would be.

Do you really not think there is someone else in the AHL that can pop 20-25 pts a year? Prust's job description is to go hit guys like Timonen. He's not going to stop doing that.

So, you have two options:

1) Give up the faulty belief that you are going to stop that from happening by engaging in stupid activities that can only hurt your own team further.

2) Keep shouting into the wind about the "protection" a team needs to offer for those types of plays.
So your option is:

3) Do nothing and hope a player does not get injured. Thank goodness I never played a competitive sport with you.

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01-18-2011, 11:59 AM
  #116
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The option and result wass: Challenge him to a clean fight, win the hockey game and hopefully punish him next game

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01-18-2011, 12:07 PM
  #117
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The option and result wass: Challenge him to a clean fight, win the hockey game and hopefully punish him next game
Oh, next game. OK, all is good then.

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01-18-2011, 12:10 PM
  #118
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The option and result wass: Challenge him to a clean fight, win the hockey game and hopefully punish him next game
I agree with this. Hopefully next game, when someone challenges Prust, not only do they beat him, but they beat him to a bloody pulp. If there's one thing I really think the Flyers lack, it's that type of player that has an intimidation factor to their game. Look at a guy like Tocchet for instance. If there was a Tocchet type player on this team (and please, don't even start saying Hartnell is a Tocchet-type player because Hartnell couldn't even hold Tocchet's protective cup), Prust and all those other guys wouldn't be running around the way they do because there would be retribution for their acts. It might not be that game, but you know next game, they'd certainly have to keep their head on a swivel.

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01-18-2011, 12:12 PM
  #119
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Oh, next game. OK, all is good then.
I really don't understand what you are thinking. Richards challenged him to fight, Prust like Avery declines to stand up for their actions, making them look cowardly. It isn't Richards job to take 19 minutes of penalties with 5 minutes left, with a 1 goal lead.

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I agree with this. Hopefully next game, when someone challenges Prust, not only do they beat him, but they beat him to a bloody pulp. If there's one thing I really think the Flyers lack, it's that type of player that has an intimidation factor to their game. Look at a guy like Tocchet for instance. If there was a Tocchet type player on this team (and please, don't even start saying Hartnell is a Tocchet-type player because Hartnell couldn't even hold Tocchet's protective cup), Prust and all those other guys wouldn't be running around the way they do because there would be retribution for their acts. It might not be that game, but you know next game, they'd certainly have to keep their head on a swivel.
Well Pronger definitely makes people pay, but lucky for the cowards on the rags, he wasn't playing.

Remember when he choke-slammed Kunitz against the glass last year?

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01-18-2011, 12:14 PM
  #120
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So your option is:

3) Do nothing and hope a player does not get injured. Thank goodness I never played a competitive sport with you.
Yeah, I was a rather good pitcher with a penchant for throwing at people... so, whatever. I have no problem with exacting a pound of flesh.

Of course, you getting your panties in a twist over Timonen getting hit and thinking you're going to stop that from happening makes me think you're all talk on how you played competitive sport.

However, your experience playing sports is completely and utterly worthless as an assessment of how to handle Prust. You don't seem to grasp that he has gotten to the point where he is (playing in the NHL) entirely because he's willing to take the punishment (and then some) that you are suggesting is going to make him stop doing what he's doing.

Prust is making $800,000 a year because he's willing to hit Timonen (and anyone else). You are not going to make him hesitate in doing that, because if that was the case he wouldn't be making $800,000 a year in the first place...

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01-18-2011, 12:19 PM
  #121
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Sounds like Prust learned his lesson, no need to retaliate:

stevezipay Steve Zipay
Prust wasn't aware of Briere's $1,000 fine for punch in head from bench. "You made my day." To Biron: "Tell your pal he's a pigeon."

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01-18-2011, 12:19 PM
  #122
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I agree with this. Hopefully next game, when someone challenges Prust, not only do they beat him, but they beat him to a bloody pulp. If there's one thing I really think the Flyers lack, it's that type of player that has an intimidation factor to their game. Look at a guy like Tocchet for instance. If there was a Tocchet type player on this team (and please, don't even start saying Hartnell is a Tocchet-type player because Hartnell couldn't even hold Tocchet's protective cup), Prust and all those other guys wouldn't be running around the way they do because there would be retribution for their acts. It might not be that game, but you know next game, they'd certainly have to keep their head on a swivel.
Comparing anyone to Tocchet is unfair, as the rules and officiating of the NHL have changed completely. What Tocchet could do, and what modern guys can do are two different things.

We have Shelley (supposedly) for a reason.

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01-18-2011, 12:29 PM
  #123
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Yeah, I was a rather good pitcher with a penchant for throwing at people... so, whatever. I have no problem with exacting a pound of flesh.

And the reason why you throw at a guy is because one his teammates either threw at one of your teammates or he was showing you up as a pitcher. Got it. And if I am the batter and I know it is coming you take your lumps unless it is at the head. Thanks, got it.


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Of course, you getting your panties in a twist over Timonen getting hit and thinking you're going to stop that from happening makes me think you're all talk on how you played competitive sport.
Actually you would be totally wrong, but playing a non-contact sport like baseball I can understand the lack of understanding. Even had the chance to learn competitively in England for two summers playing under Sir Bobby Charlton coaching staff. Three sport captain my senior HS year and senior year at college for my soccer team, so got the leadership thing under wraps as well

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However, your experience playing sports is completely and utterly worthless as an assessment of how to handle Prust. You don't seem to grasp that he has gotten to the point where he is (playing in the NHL) entirely because he's willing to take the punishment (and then some) that you are suggesting is going to make him stop doing what he's doing.
Hockey is a sport where the ultimate in showmanship takes place and where guys like Prust make their money by taking out players like Timonen, thus why guys in the O&B should be more fierce in making sure when it happens someone is on his back making sure he knows they are not only watching but will do something about it. Thus next time he will be looking over his shoulder. This is how the game is played and a shame that the instigator is in place, fringe players are not being held accountable for their actions on the best players. Not hard to grasp.


Quote:
Prust is making $800,000 a year because he's willing to hit Timonen (and anyone else). You are not going to make him hesitate in doing that, because if that was the case he wouldn't be making $800,000 a year in the first place...

See above, you take action and I guarantee he thinks twice about finishing that hit or turning back up ice.

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01-18-2011, 12:35 PM
  #124
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Actually you would be totally wrong, but playing a non-contact sport like baseball I can understand the lack of understanding. Even had the chance to learn competitively in England for two summers playing under Sir Bobby Charlton coaching staff. Three sport captain my senior HS year and senior year at college for my soccer team, so got the leadership thing under wraps as well
Actually, played football too... so good on you for avoiding a real contact sport to play soccer.

Quote:
See above, you take action and I guarantee he thinks twice about finishing that hit or turning back up ice.
Did you learn nothing from watching Riley Cote get his faced smashed in on a regular basis and coming back for more each and every time?

I guarantee you Richards or anyone else instigating a fight with Prust would not have ANY impact on how he plays his game.


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01-18-2011, 12:51 PM
  #125
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Actually, played football too... so good on you for avoiding a real contact sport to play soccer.

Since I see your location as St Andrews, I think you understand that soccer can be played on several different levels of competitiveness. Also took the spring of my senior year in college to play flyhalf/fullback on the rugby team, but enough of the pissing match.

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Did you learn nothing from watching Riley Cote get his faced smashed in on a regular basis and coming back for more each and every time?
Riley Cote was washed up last year, he was on the roster due to Stevens.

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I guarantee you Richards or anyone else instigating a fight with Prust would not have ANY impact on how he plays his game.

I am not changing the aspect of how he plays, but it certainly would put a target on his back that guys like Richards or Hartnell will hold him accountable for hitting Timonen. Last thing I want to see is having Timonen take things into his own hands. Or Briere. Or Giroux. Richards and Hartnell can hold their own, Richards was on the ice when it happened, do not see why he could not handle it on his own.

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