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Paul Holmgren earns 3-year contract extension

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01-18-2011, 03:58 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
The deal isn't sad, it's the fact that we have already traded away picks for a draft 2 drafts away. I love Mez, but it just shows how awful Holmgren is at pick management. He should have had a 2011 pick to trade for Mezaros
He has made pretty good work of his picks in the past. For my first round pick in the 2009 and 2010 draft the Philadelphia Flyers select - Chris Pronger.

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01-18-2011, 04:00 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
First off, my point was that Detroit and Philly both ran into cap problems due to their top paid player being on LTIR for a majority of the season in markets spending to the cap. I didn't put it as a feather in Homers cap, just pointing out that both teams lost good players due to major injuries and the adjustments made to the roster to make up for them - which is understandable. We lost Upshall and Detroit lost Leino. I wasn't writing a novel about the comparisons between the two trades, so I can leave out any details I want.
So, basically you get to be biased and present skewed information how you see fit? OK.

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The point is valid. P.S. Detroit did have to take back O.K. to make the deal and waived him, it just so happened the player we got back ended up becoming the most popular Flyer for a long period of time. Fear the stash!!!
Shrooms are awesome, I agree.

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Waiving Leighton, and signing Carter and Giroux to fair deals has helped me ease up on him. I never expected Carter to get less than Richards. I was a big supporter of Mezaros and OD since day one (still found timing of Mez deal weird, and it is a big contract. I had originally assumed that Carle was going to be traded.) I have never said he was the worst GM in the league or anything like that, it's just that sometimes he seems downright stupid

If he calls Leighton up on re-entry waivers, I will 100% hate him again. Or if he trades our first away in a bad deal.

This deadline he needs to look at goalies, (but not overpay if he is going to get one), trade Walker(if anyone wants him), and maybe acquire a 3rd liner (Glencross is my target).
Well, if you'd known Carter was going to get 11 years I'd bet you'd expect him to get less than Richards.

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01-18-2011, 04:05 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
He has made pretty good work of his picks in the past. For my first round pick in the 2009 and 2010 draft the Philadelphia Flyers select - Chris Pronger.
I am fine with the Pronger trade(though one of them should have been conditional really.) And there is still the issue of him apparently not understanding the 35+ rule. I kind of have faith that Pronger will play his whole deal out, so hopefully it won't matter

But we traded a 2nd with Gauthier to get rid of him, and same with Upshall apparently. 2nd rounders are still pretty good picks to hang on to, or at least not to waste on useless deals

Not to mention we could have Carlson or Markstrom now if we had kept that Eminger pick


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01-18-2011, 04:07 PM
  #79
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I am fine with the Pronger trade(though one of them should have been conditional really.)

But we traded a 2nd with Gauthier to get rid of him, and same with Upshall apparently. 2nd rounders are still pretty good picks to hang on to, or at least not to waste on useless deals
The vast majority of NHL players are taken in the first two rounds.

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01-18-2011, 04:22 PM
  #80
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I'm fine with this. I wish he was better at the cap though, and we have yet to see how he will replenish the prospect pool.

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01-18-2011, 04:35 PM
  #81
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I will get smoked for defending this, but whatever. When JOnes was signed he came off an amazing playoffs and was an important part of a makeshift defense
Yeah, unless I remember wrong here, Jones was certainly not amazing during that playoff run. He wasn't bad, but it was fairly obvious that he was nothing more than a bottom pairing defender who could play on the second PP. I mean, to get a lot of minutes when the rest of the defense is No-Legs-Hatcher, Two-Dislocated-Shoulders-Smith, No-Brains-Kukkonen, a Jaroslav Modry who had nothing left in his tank except an ability to pass the puck fairly well, and Ryan Parent called up from the AHL, that's not such a big feat.

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01-18-2011, 04:36 PM
  #82
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I'm fine with this. I wish he was better at the cap though, and we have yet to see how he will replenish the prospect pool.
By attacking the problem via free-agent prospects. We've already seen how he's going to handle it.

What we've yet to see is how long he will hold out before he finally feels it's necessary to hold onto a 1st/2nd round pick. Hopefully this year is the year.

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01-18-2011, 04:37 PM
  #83
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Yeah, unless I remember wrong here, Jones was certainly not amazing during that playoff run. He wasn't bad, but it was fairly obvious that he was nothing more than a bottom pairing defender who could play on the second PP. I mean, to get a lot of minutes when the rest of the defense is No-Legs-Hatcher, Two-Dislocated-Shoulders-Smith, No-Brains-Kukkonen, a Jaroslav Modry who had nothing left in his tank except an ability to pass the puck fairly well, and Ryan Parent called up from the AHL, that's not such a big feat.
Honestly, I hate Jones but when Timonen and Coburn went down to injury, Jones did step in big time. He and Hatcher were the top pairing and they did good

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01-18-2011, 04:39 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Honestly, I hate Jones but when Timonen and Coburn went down to injury, Jones did step in big time. He and Hatcher were the top pairing and they did good
Jones ended that stint with Alberts as his partner as I recall... and Alberts had a complete meltdown at the end of the year for whatever reason. His play went off the cliff. Jones was playing hurt and it showed in his physical abilities. Never a good skater, but he really couldn't get around at all and then had hip surgery immediately following the season.

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01-18-2011, 04:40 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
By attacking the problem via free-agent prospects. We've already seen how he's going to handle it.

What we've yet to see is how long he will hold out before he finally feels it's necessary to hold onto a 1st/2nd round pick. Hopefully this year is the year.
Yes, but it's yet to really yield anything not named "Bob." Unless I'm thoroughly forgetting someone, that's a good stopgap but will be far less successful than drafting.

I agree, this year needs to be the year where drafting resumes. Another year of FA prospects puts the future in serious question, especially with Pronger getting old, and Timonen following suit.

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01-18-2011, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Jones ended that stint with Alberts as his partner as I recall... and Alberts had a complete meltdown at the end of the year for whatever reason. His play went off the cliff. Jones was playing hurt and it showed in his physical abilities. Never a good skater, but he really couldn't get around at all and then had hip surgery immediately following the season.
I am talking about 07-08, his 31 point year

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Yes, but it's yet to really yield anything not named "Bob." Unless I'm thoroughly forgetting someone, that's a good stopgap but will be far less successful than drafting.

I agree, this year needs to be the year where drafting resumes. Another year of FA prospects puts the future in serious question, especially with Pronger getting old, and Timonen following suit.
Gustaffson and Testwuide were looked at as top 10 NCAA UFA last year. Pither was 3rd in scoring after Hall and Seguin as an overager. They are definitely longshots, but they are decent replacements and stopgaps like you said. We definitely need our first this year

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01-18-2011, 04:45 PM
  #87
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Yes, but it's yet to really yield anything not named "Bob." Unless I'm thoroughly forgetting someone, that's a good stopgap but will be far less successful than drafting.
I still really like Gustafsson, and I think Holmstrom and Testwuide have solid NHL potential. Outside of that is pretty hit or miss. People seem to forget Manning, but I have high hopes for him. He's a great leader, two-way defenseman, and works hard. He's an overager, but like I said, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Of course adding Da Costa is always welcome.

And you're right. Outside of Bob, nothing has shown so far, but I like the way it's been. Having no picks he's done a pretty good job getting talent.

The problem is that I'd rather have some picks. I still don't think it's a viable strategy for a long-term investment. It's okay for now, but anymore than this and he's pushing it. We need some top-end talent to flow into the pool.

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I agree, this year needs to be the year where drafting resumes. Another year of FA prospects puts the future in serious question, especially with Pronger getting old, and Timonen following suit.
Agreed.

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01-18-2011, 04:48 PM
  #88
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I still really like Gustafsson, and I think Holmstrom and Testwuide have solid NHL potential. Outside of that is pretty hit or miss. People seem to forget Manning, but I have high hopes for him. He's a great leader, two-way defenseman, and works hard. He's an overager, but like I said, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Of course adding Da Costa is always welcome.

And you're right. Outside of Bob, nothing has shown so far, but I like the way it's been. Having no picks he's done a pretty good job getting talent.

The problem is that I'd rather have some picks. I still don't think it's a viable strategy for a long-term investment. It's okay for now, but anymore than this and he's pushing it. We need some top-end talent to flow into the pool.



Agreed.
Ah yes, Gustafsson. I have hopes for him as well, but nothing too great. I know nothing of the others.

Luckily the core of this team is largely young, and a lot of it will be around for close to 3 more seasons. I'm not horribly concerned about the lacking pool right now.

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01-18-2011, 04:52 PM
  #89
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Honestly, I hate Jones but when Timonen and Coburn went down to injury, Jones did step in big time. He and Hatcher were the top pairing and they did good
He did step up, but not so much that he should have received that ridiculous contract.

Btw, I think it was the game that Coburn got injured, Hatcher played nearly 30 minutes despite clearly being in pain. The way he and Smith played that spring was pretty remarkable considering what kind of injuries they had.

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01-18-2011, 04:53 PM
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Ah yes, Gustafsson. I have hopes for him as well, but nothing too great. I know nothing of the others.
My biggest fear is that he turns into Randy Jones. I still think he or Lehtivuori would've been able to jump into our defense next year. I still think that about Gustafsson being able to replace Carle (not fully but to an extent), but Lehtivuori's comments recently were disheartening, as if he's another ruined prospect thanks to Gilbert.

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Luckily the core of this team is largely young, and a lot of it will be around for close to 3 more seasons. I'm not horribly concerned about the lacking pool right now.
I'm on the fence about throwing some money (Carle) and a 1st at Florida for Vokoun. I think that'd get it done, and we're not in critical danger yet. I just don't want this year to be the year we really need to pick someone or else risk being in critical danger.

In the salary cap world, you definitely want that constant flow of talent. Right now Nodl, Wellwood, Holmstrom, and Testwuide are what we have to work with offensively. That's not enough in my opinion.

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01-18-2011, 04:59 PM
  #91
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Homer has made a few questionable moves but the good outweighs the bad. And we have been winning and have Chris Pronger.

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01-18-2011, 05:05 PM
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This is a fine move. I would prefer Homer do a few things differently. I thought he had a bad off-season but it could have been worse. everyone killed him for not signing a goalie to go with Leighton and Boucher and it turned out getting a goalie would have been a terrible idea. Leino for OKT, a 5th, and Wolfy was the steal of the past 2 seasons. He has a few head scratchers and most GM's do, but right now we are defending Eastern Conference Champions and current #1 seed. He gives out some weird contracts but he is also in position to let someone sit in the minors and spend more money (like rathje)

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01-18-2011, 05:13 PM
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This is a fine move. I would prefer Homer do a few things differently. I thought he had a bad off-season but it could have been worse. everyone killed him for not signing a goalie to go with Leighton and Boucher and it turned out getting a goalie would have been a terrible idea. Leino for OKT, a 5th, and Wolfy was the steal of the past 2 seasons. He has a few head scratchers and most GM's do, but right now we are defending Eastern Conference Champions and current #1 seed. He gives out some weird contracts but he is also in position to let someone sit in the minors and spend more money (like rathje)
Don't forget getting Lappy.

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01-18-2011, 05:14 PM
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My biggest fear is that he turns into Randy Jones. I still think he or Lehtivuori would've been able to jump into our defense next year. I still think that about Gustafsson being able to replace Carle (not fully but to an extent), but Lehtivuori's comments recently were disheartening, as if he's another ruined prospect thanks to Gilbert.



I'm on the fence about throwing some money (Carle) and a 1st at Florida for Vokoun. I think that'd get it done, and we're not in critical danger yet. I just don't want this year to be the year we really need to pick someone or else risk being in critical danger.

In the salary cap world, you definitely want that constant flow of talent. Right now Nodl, Wellwood, Holmstrom, and Testwuide are what we have to work with offensively. That's not enough in my opinion.
Carle has never seen the sun, he wouldn't last in Florida. He only lasted six games in Tampa Bay.

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01-18-2011, 05:55 PM
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I know pretty much everyone on here hates Homer and complains about all the bad moves he has done (which really aren't as numerous as most people on here would lead you to believe), but Homer has turned this team into what it is now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but outside of Richards, Giroux, and Carter, I think the entire team is from acquisitions that Homer made. That very team is currently in first place in the East, went to the SCF last season, playoffs the year before, and ECF the year before that. I am not entirely sure what else people would like him to do.

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01-18-2011, 06:00 PM
  #96
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I know pretty much everyone on here hates Homer and complains about all the bad moves he has done (which really aren't as numerous as most people on here would lead you to believe), but Homer has turned this team into what it is now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but outside of Richards, Giroux, and Carter, I think the entire team is from acquisitions that Homer made. That very team is currently in first place in the East, went to the SCF last season, playoffs the year before, and ECF the year before that. I am not entirely sure what else people would like him to do.
It isn't everyone, and it generally isn't an irrational hatred. If you think well-deserved criticism concerning the offseason and his handling of the cap is "hate," well I don't know what to tell you.

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01-18-2011, 06:08 PM
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It isn't everyone, and it generally isn't an irrational hatred. If you think well-deserved criticism concerning the offseason and his handling of the cap is "hate," well I don't know what to tell you.
Well no I don't think criticism is hate, I think that people jumping on him for every single move and people saying he is the worst GM ever and that he should have been fired ages ago and so forth and so on. I don't feel like looking back at old threads and finding these instances of mass Homer hating, but it's there.

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01-18-2011, 06:31 PM
  #98
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I know pretty much everyone on here hates Homer and complains about all the bad moves he has done (which really aren't as numerous as most people on here would lead you to believe), but Homer has turned this team into what it is now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but outside of Richards, Giroux, and Carter, I think the entire team is from acquisitions that Homer made. That very team is currently in first place in the East, went to the SCF last season, playoffs the year before, and ECF the year before that. I am not entirely sure what else people would like him to do.
Homer was involved with Richards, Giroux and Carter drafts also. I call it like I see it. Is Homer a Great Gm? No. But he is a dam good one and I like the team he as built. Keep up the good work Lets Go Flyers

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01-18-2011, 06:41 PM
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I am surprised! The comments is this thread are very fair. I thought homer would be ripped, not at all from what I am reading. Awesome

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01-18-2011, 06:50 PM
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I am surprised! The comments is this thread are very fair. I thought homer would be ripped, not at all from what I am reading. Awesome
He hasn't done anything to warrant getting canned. He definitely has his work cut out for him moving forward. We'll see what happens.

It would be nice if he stops doing 1-2 completely egregious things per year (mishandling Jones, sighing Leighton before FA, etc.) But his wins are often larger in scope than his losses. Which is what has saved his ass so many times.

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