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Two way Top Four defenseman to San Jose.

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Old
01-18-2011, 11:40 PM
  #101
DrFeelgood
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Originally Posted by MoreMogilny View Post
I know he is.

But you are asking for our best defenseman, our biggest minute eater (who has actually been pretty good this season despite what some insist) as well as a second and third.

That is a huge return for a guy who hasn't yet hit 60 points so far in his career.
It was meant as a 2nd OR a 3rd, I suppose I should have specified that

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01-18-2011, 11:47 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by DrFeelgood View Post
Nope. Not interested in just Beachemin. Our forward corps was just re-stocked today, don't need more bottom 6 guys.

edit: I just noticed I misspelled Kadri's name
An that spelling error is what will cost us getting him. It's all your fault

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01-18-2011, 11:47 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by DrFeelgood View Post
It was meant as a 2nd OR a 3rd, I suppose I should have specified that
Oops, that was a mere typo on my part, i understood what you meant.

I just think it's a bit much to ask for. The Leafs may not be playing well, so it doesn't reflect kindly upon certain players, especially defensemen, but you picked two guys who can be very important to the team.

Perhaps replace Schenn with Gunnarsson in the proposal? He has struggled a bit this season, but has looked good of late, is cheap, and has top 4 upside. He was the most consistent, and arguably best defenseman the Leafs had last year (until Schenn broke out of his slump).

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01-18-2011, 11:49 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by MoreMogilny View Post
Oops, that was a mere typo on my part, i understood what you meant.

I just think it's a bit much to ask for. The Leafs may not be playing well, so it doesn't reflect kindly upon certain players, especially defensemen, but you picked two guys who can be very important to the team.

Perhaps replace Schenn with Gunnarsson in the proposal? He has struggled a bit this season, but has looked good of late, is cheap, and has top 4 upside. He was the most consistent, and arguably best defenseman the Leafs had last year (until Schenn broke out of his slump).
The value is there (at least in the long-term) but the Sharks need someone that could play Top-4 right now, not in a few years. Our system is full of kids that are capable of playing defense, but not quite at the level, so adding to that pool doesn't really address a current need.

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01-18-2011, 11:58 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by DrFeelgood View Post
The value is there (at least in the long-term) but the Sharks need someone that could play Top-4 right now, not in a few years. Our system is full of kids that are capable of playing defense, but not quite at the level, so adding to that pool doesn't really address a current need.
So essentially you are in need of two players that can take on full time top 4 minutes? I guess in that case the only realistic options really are Schenn and Beauchemin. Unfortunately it would really be a backwards step removing Schenn from the lineup. At 21, he is the best defensemen that the Leafs have, and nobody else on the team can do what he does.

It's a shame that something couldn't be worked out just involving Beauchemin. Though i certainly understand the skepticism from Sharks fans here. He hasn't exactly been a shining example of great play this season. He has had his moments of both good and bad, and i think he would fit nicely into the Sharks' lineup, but it is pretty steep to ask for Pavelski/Clowe in return.

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01-19-2011, 12:05 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreMogilny View Post
So essentially you are in need of two players that can take on full time top 4 minutes? I guess in that case the only realistic options really are Schenn and Beauchemin. Unfortunately it would really be a backwards step removing Schenn from the lineup. At 21, he is the best defensemen that the Leafs have, and nobody else on the team can do what he does.

It's a shame that something couldn't be worked out just involving Beauchemin. Though i certainly understand the skepticism from Sharks fans here. He hasn't exactly been a shining example of great play this season. He has had his moments of both good and bad, and i think he would fit nicely into the Sharks' lineup, but it is pretty steep to ask for Pavelski/Clowe in return.
Oh no, i'm not saying something can't be worked out, but if Clowe/Pavelski is what you're after, the price is going to be steep.

If you're just looking to unload Beauchemin, we'd definitely be interested but not at the price of one of the top guys on our team. It would be more in the ballpark of like Setoguchi, <mid pick or mid-prospect> for Beauchemin

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01-19-2011, 12:11 AM
  #107
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Fedor Tyutin?

His big weakness is when he gets pressured in his own end. He's more valuable to the Jackets than most Jackets fans realize, but maybe Tyutin + for Setoguchi or something to do with San Jose's 1st + a player?
I would like Tyutin. I also love his name. but DW dislikes Russians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyutah View Post
beauchemin for charlie coyle. Sorry dude but i'm afraid coyle is NOT untouchable
Er, Team USA best forward at the World Juniors, only 18, having a good season at BU... Not for Beauch, or I will shoot someone.

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Originally Posted by johnnyutah View Post
coyle is the only prospect you have that can get you a 2 way top 4 defenseman which is what beaucheman is. However, the guy i REALLY want from the sharks is logan couture. I would love to do a deal like couture for beauch +
Sure. Couture for Beauch and Schenn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Axel View Post

RW Devin Setoguchi
D Derek Joslin


D Joni Pitkanen
I'd be down for this. I hear the Canes want Joslin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreMogilny View Post
Well according to Eklund, the Leafs and Sharks are talking trade.

Beauchemin and Pavelski are the main pieces, so...
Dear God no..... Wait, why would the Leafs be interested in a Playoff warrior?

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01-19-2011, 12:16 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
I would like Tyutin. I also love his name. but DW dislikes Russians.



Er, Team USA best forward at the World Juniors, only 18, having a good season at BU... Not for Beauch, or I will shoot someone.



Sure. Couture for Beauch and Schenn.



I'd be down for this. I hear the Canes want Joslin.



Dear God no..... Wait, why would the Leafs be interested in a Playoff warrior?

Why does our GM have this need to sign former cup winners? I think Burke believes Pavs and Kessel will click and the Leafs will become instant cup contenders.

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01-19-2011, 12:19 AM
  #109
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Any team is going to be hard-pressed to get Setoguchi out of San Jose. Pavelski and Clowe are untouchable during the season, plain and simple.

The Sharks just need a puck-moving, 20+ minute logging d-man that will contribute offensively. They just need a more developed Jason Demers. Keeping some sort of realistic expectation, Carolina would likely be the most ideal partner. Either Joni Pitkanen or Ian White. Neither of them are ideal fits but either would be the best fit they could hope for in terms of what is out there. Everyone else that is likely available is just not good enough at puck-moving and minute-eating.

And with both Pitkanen and White being rentals, it would depend on the price tag if Carolina does become sellers. I'd only assume that if they wanted to clear salary more than compete for that last spot. I'd likely do McGinn, Joslin, and a 1st for Pitkanen and probably Joslin and a 2nd for White. The Sharks would have to find a home for Huskins elsewhere most likely since I'd assume salary wouldn't be desired in return by Carolina in such a scenario.

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01-19-2011, 12:21 AM
  #110
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dump huskins for a draft pick? then aquire Pitkanen for joslin+1st+ roster player torrey mitchell or mcginn.

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01-19-2011, 12:22 AM
  #111
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Lol why would the Sharks trade Pavelski for anyone on the Leafs short of Schenn? Toronto fans are so delusional. Couture for Beauch+? Seriously? There's literally no one your team could add to that package to make DW even think twice. Leafs fans need to realize the extent to which Burke has run that organization into the ground and how few pieces of value (basically just Schenn) they have.

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01-19-2011, 12:44 AM
  #112
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Spacek is your man

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01-19-2011, 01:25 AM
  #113
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The Tyutin for 1st+ proposal's caught my interest though its the only one.

I'd love to have Pitkanen, but I think he will be too expensive and don't want to spend on someone who is unlikely to stay.

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01-19-2011, 01:34 AM
  #114
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Why is he unlikely to stay? Give him a good contract and he will.

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01-19-2011, 01:36 AM
  #115
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Vandermeer for Mitchell

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01-19-2011, 01:47 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Davidhye View Post
Why is he unlikely to stay? Give him a good contract and he will.
Sorry, I should not have said unlikely, but realistically how confident are you that he would stay? We have a history of having some trouble with free agents and I am not convinced Pitkanen would be different. The good news is that we probably won't be competing with Philly, Pitt, Toronto (assuming Kaberle re-signs), Montreal (assuming Markov), Detroit (Lidstrom), Vancouver (Ehrhoff), Calgary, Washington, or Chicago for his services. And those teams are typically involved in big signings or are contenders. New York, Boston, New Jersey, and Colorado will likely have some degree of interest in improving their d-corps, and it wouldn't surprise if Pitkaken ended up preferring one of those destinations or staying in Carolina to joining San Jose. I just don't know that I want to give up a valuable asset like Setoguchi or a 1st for a player who will help us to the second round at best (okay 3rd is a slight possibility).

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01-19-2011, 01:56 AM
  #117
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I guess the safest route for us is to trade for a signed defenseman and then hope he doesn't request a trade.

We'd be in great position if we had him though, say til '14. Then, re-sign him again if there isn't anyone in the farm and he'll take Boyle's position, or let go if someone is ready to replace.

Then, in 4 years you get a really nice d group:
Pitkanen-Vlasic
Demers-Murray
Braun-Petrecki

Wassup.

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01-19-2011, 03:02 AM
  #118
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Coliacovo for Wellwood
I LOLed. Thought about posting that as well.

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01-19-2011, 03:24 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Any team is going to be hard-pressed to get Setoguchi out of San Jose. Pavelski and Clowe are untouchable during the season, plain and simple.

The Sharks just need a puck-moving, 20+ minute logging d-man that will contribute offensively. They just need a more developed Jason Demers. Keeping some sort of realistic expectation, Carolina would likely be the most ideal partner. Either Joni Pitkanen or Ian White. Neither of them are ideal fits but either would be the best fit they could hope for in terms of what is out there. Everyone else that is likely available is just not good enough at puck-moving and minute-eating.

And with both Pitkanen and White being rentals, it would depend on the price tag if Carolina does become sellers. I'd only assume that if they wanted to clear salary more than compete for that last spot. I'd likely do McGinn, Joslin, and a 1st for Pitkanen and probably Joslin and a 2nd for White. The Sharks would have to find a home for Huskins elsewhere most likely since I'd assume salary wouldn't be desired in return by Carolina in such a scenario.
Setoguchi's trade value is very low right now. A puck-moving, 20+ minute logging d-man that will contribute offensively is worth more. D-men in general are worth more than forwards. It's simple supply and demand. D-men in general, much less a two-way or offensive d-men of the top four variety, are hard to come by.

The only Sharks forwards of any trade value right now are Couture, Pavelski, and Clowe (Heatley, Thornton, and Marleau are untradeable cap-wise).

No team is going to want to give up a puck-moving, 20+ minute offensive d-man.....if you're not willing to part with one of those three forwards.

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01-19-2011, 04:39 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by clyankees47 View Post
Setoguchi's trade value is very low right now. A puck-moving, 20+ minute logging d-man that will contribute offensively is worth more. D-men in general are worth more than forwards. It's simple supply and demand. D-men in general, much less a two-way or offensive d-men of the top four variety, are hard to come by.

The only Sharks forwards of any trade value right now are Couture, Pavelski, and Clowe (Heatley, Thornton, and Marleau are untradeable cap-wise).

No team is going to want to give up a puck-moving, 20+ minute offensive d-man.....if you're not willing to part with one of those three forwards.
We've already had a Columbus fan propose Tyutin+ for our 1st+ (and I assume he meant McGinn, or a non-Coyle prospect).

Wisniewski went for a 3rd.
B. Stuart for a 2nd and 4th.
D. Seidenberg for a 2nd.
Corvo for salary dump, 2nd, B prospect
NHL player Derek Morris for a conditional pick (2nd or 3rd- can't remember)
Grebenshekov for a 2nd round pick
Leopold for a 2nd
Sutton for a 2nd
Wallin for a 2nd
Montador for Nokelinan

D-men get traded for non-roster assets all the time. Even if the Sharks pull the top 6 and Setoguchi off the table, Charlie Coyle, Nick Petrecki, Taylor Doherty, Brandon Mashinter, Marek Viedensky, Justin Braun our 1st, 2nd, 3rd in each of the next two drafts, Torrey Mitchell, Benn Ferrerio, Jamie McGinn, and several others would draw varying degrees of interest. If Kaberle is going to be moved- Toronto likely considers Mashinter/Doherty+1st+2nd. If someone like Leopold is moved, a 2nd+Viedensky could get it done. Tyutin? 1st+McGinn. It's all a matter of who is on the block and the team needs. If a team is rebuilding we'll have assets that interest, because its not like a re-building team is going to get a blue-chipper for their #3 d-man.

I'd inquire about Wideman, Polak, Jackman, Tyutin, Pitkanen, Brewer Russel, Klesla, Hejda, Kaberle, Beauchmein (though I wouldn't offer a 1st, and he is far from my favorite choice), Leopold, Liles, Montador, White, Wisniewski, Bieska Gilbert, Martinek, Green, Gunnarsson, Butler, and Sekera. Only a select few of those guys may be available, but even fewer should garner a 1st (Tyutin, Pitkaken, Russel, Kaberle- though I'd be against all but the Columbus duo).

In the offseason, Brewer, Jovo, McCabe, Kaberle, Markov, and Wisniewski become more possible with 6.2 million coming off in the form of Niemi, Huskins, and Wallin, and only Setoguchi (500k max) and Demers (750k) getting raises, while Thornton takes a meager pay cut.

Meanwhile, I'd keep close taps on Seabrook, Weber, Suter, Burns, and the rest of the elite young d-men. If an opportunity comes up great, but don't plan on it.

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01-19-2011, 04:49 AM
  #121
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An that spelling error is what will cost us getting him. It's all your fault
unless this post was a joke, it's just too funny to ignore.

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01-19-2011, 05:24 AM
  #122
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I think it's pretty obvious that if you want a top 4 defenseman in a salary neutral trade (I assume that is a necessity, correct me if I'm wrong), Vancouver is your team.

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01-19-2011, 06:37 AM
  #123
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I think it's pretty obvious that if you want a top 4 defenseman in a salary neutral trade (I assume that is a necessity, correct me if I'm wrong), Vancouver is your team.
I disagree... Vancouver will not want to give up a top 4 defenseman to a rival this late in the season... during the summer months is one thing but approaching the ASG not likely... a better bet is a team like Calgary who may be rebuilding and might listen to offers for Regehr, Bouwmeester, Sarich & Babchuk...

New Jersey and Colin White is another option as saving $3 million next season might be a good thing for the Devils...

Ottawa is another option, I would think outside Karlsson no one on their blueline is untouchable

the Leafs would likely entertain offeers for anyone but Schenn, Phaneuf and Gunnarsson

perhaps the Panthers and one of McCabe, Wideman or Allen

Sheldon Souray is an option too

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01-19-2011, 07:25 AM
  #124
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Chris Phillips for Devin Setoguchi? It would give San Jose a good defensive defenseman and Ottawa a good young top 6 forward, filling needs both teams have.

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01-19-2011, 07:26 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by clyankees47 View Post
Setoguchi's trade value is very low right now. A puck-moving, 20+ minute logging d-man that will contribute offensively is worth more. D-men in general are worth more than forwards. It's simple supply and demand. D-men in general, much less a two-way or offensive d-men of the top four variety, are hard to come by.

The only Sharks forwards of any trade value right now are Couture, Pavelski, and Clowe (Heatley, Thornton, and Marleau are untradeable cap-wise).

No team is going to want to give up a puck-moving, 20+ minute offensive d-man.....if you're not willing to part with one of those three forwards.
Setoguchi's value right now is slightly higher than what Steve Bernier's was when he was young, struggling to be a consistent player, and looked like he needed a change of scenery. He was part of the rental of Campbell. So unless a team wants him and a draft pick for a top pairing PMD, which the Sharks don't necessarily need nor could afford, you're taking less for a rental.

It's simple supply and demand that d-men are more valuable than forwards but that doesn't equate to the only way the Sharks will get one is by trading Clowe, Couture, or Pavelski. That is just plain ridiculous. There are a hell of a lot more instances of top four d-men in general going for dumps and/or off-roster assets than there are of them getting traded for established top six players...and especially mid-season for a rental.

Teams will be willing to give up those d-men to cut salary and look towards next year. Sharks have plenty of assets that will help in that regard. You and a lot of other people seriously need to reign in your expectations of what a rental will return because this kind of post is not anywhere close to reality. What your home run scenario is for whatever player is being discussed is not something you should actually argue about like it should happen because it's not.

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