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Kaberle to NYR

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Old
01-19-2011, 10:01 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
How is it so far-fetched? St Louis did it with Weight and Tkachuk a couple of times. Instead of just throwing out unsubstantiated absolutes, how about offering some actual reasoning?
Trading Kaberle as a 2 month rental will not bring back anything substantial, then you have to hope your bird flies home which might never happen.

I'd rather keep him in the city he loves and use those couple months to re-sign him.

How's that for reasoning?

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01-19-2011, 10:03 AM
  #52
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Not sure if its been mentioned, but reports indicate Kaberle would be willing to waive his NTC if a contract extension is worked out with the team. So if NYR want him, they would need to sign him to an extension after the trade. That being said, you arent trading for 2-3months of Kaberle, it would be Kaberle signed for the next few years. That will drive his price up, and it wont be for a 2nd and mediocre prospect.

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01-19-2011, 10:03 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
OK. I'll ask you then. Why wouldn't Burke trade him and then sign him 7/1?
I don't think Kaberle would come back to TO if they trade him...I can't say exactly what he's thinkin but he doesn't wanna be traded, so I assume even though he may agree to be moved, he'd be bitter about it and not wanna return.

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01-19-2011, 10:05 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngbloodhockey View Post
Trading Kaberle as a 2 month rental will not bring back anything substantial, then you have to hope your bird flies home which might never happen.

I'd rather keep him in the city he loves and use those couple months to re-sign him.

How's that for reasoning?
A lot better than anything else you've offered so far.

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01-19-2011, 10:07 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Del Zotto isn't even in NYC right now. So I can't see how that renders Kaberle unnecessary. TK is the right guy (at least right type of guy) to target. Just at the right price. He fills two three very big holes the Rangers have: 1) A vet dman, 2) A puck moving Dman, 3) Help on the PP.
I don't remember saying kaberle wouldn't be necessary youngblood said the rangers should trade prospect/picks for a young pmd, I said we have one..... And I know all three of those are desperately needed.

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01-19-2011, 10:08 AM
  #56
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Kaberle for Drury still makes sense for both teams.

TML is desperate for forwards and particularly a center
TML has spare defenders to move to acquire a center.
Burke and Wilson chose Drury for Olympics.
TML gets Drury's services next year when Drury only makes 5m.
TML has cap space to fit Drury.
Tonight is the last game of the regular season between TML and NYR.

Drury has slipped down NYR's lineup as the organization wants to give younger players more opportunities. Sometimes he moves up but the Rangers are stacked with a full throttle youth movement and are committed to it so he gets pushed back down.
I can see Drury waiving his NMC for a chance to play on a top6 line in Toronto. He's met with NYR coaching staff about playing a bottom role in NYR already and has kept quiet about it. He obviously wants to play more. Besides that, Buffalo and Toronto aren't that far apart regionally and his best years were in Buffalo where he played on a team with smallish forwards with speed.

Drury - Kaberle straight up. TML gets Drury for another year.

Then there's the Wolski factor where I think adding Wolski for Bozak and a high pick in 2012 or a high prospect would aslo be a nice deal.

Burke wants to add size.

Drury, Wolski for
Kaberle, Bozak, 2012 2nd unless you acquire a 2011 2nd.

or

Drury, Wolski, 2011 2nd for
Kaberle, Bozak, 2012 1st

Capgeek says it all fits.

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01-19-2011, 10:10 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by LeafsandSharksfan View Post
Well, Burke prides himself on doing the honorable thing and maintaining good relationships with other GMs. Doesn't seem like something he would do.
I'm not sure I would consider it dishonorable. If Kaberle returned to Toronto, that's on the player, not the GM.

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Originally Posted by LeafsandSharksfan View Post
Also, whoever picks him up will have time to negotiate a potential contract. Who's to say Kaberle won't enjoy NY and want to stay there? Too risky for one of our more important players.
To me, this is the greatest sticking point. Like I mentioned earlier, the Rangers have their own RFAs to re-sign (Callahan, Dubinsky, Boyle, Sauer and Anisimov) and they are going to take priority. Not sure they will have to money to resign him especially with Redden coming back on the cap.

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01-19-2011, 10:10 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Rangerdanger20 View Post
I don't remember saying kaberle wouldn't be necessary youngblood said the rangers should trade prospect/picks for a young pmd, I said we have one..... And I know all three of those are desperately needed.
But that's the thing right now they don't have one.

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01-19-2011, 10:11 AM
  #59
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Capgeek says it fits... there is no evidence thus far that Drury can return to being a top 6 forward, which is what Toronto would want.

He is being outplayed on the offensive depth chart by Brandon Prust, a 5 foot 7 rookie, the list goes on and on.

In a Drury for Kaberle swap, you're adding, not asking for more. And then there is that pesky NMC to deal with.

I dont deny that Burke like Drury. I just dont think he likes him that much.

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01-19-2011, 10:12 AM
  #60
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yup understand NYR fans want to spend as little as possible to add but really is kaberle worth that little? 29 points in 44 games is worth that little even as ufa? I dont think the leafs resign him because they have so much cap on D and they will look to use his and giggys cap hit to aquire some help up front. plus he will not sign at his rate especially when gonchar gets paid 5.5 to do nothing in ottawa. teams spend on pending UFAs to help push deep into the playoffs. how about this

kaberle for contional picks
NYR goes past 1st round of playoffs leafs get a 2nd in 2011 and 2012 if he resigns with NYR it becomes 1st round 2011 and 2nd 2012

leafs get rid of more cap to possibly make other move for a forward now especially with some of the teams selling cap players. plus they get a first for next year

NYR gives up what will probably be a late first or 2nd depending resign and get a PMD with solid point production to help them push into the playoffs and bring experience to their younger d core. also doesnt hurt their run for this year. counters thoughts?

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Old
01-19-2011, 10:13 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
A lot better than anything else you've offered so far.
It's a lot better then this gambling stuff you're suggesting. Some minimal return for Kaberle doesn't really help Toronto to begin with, then there is a good chance we lose out on our 50-60 PMD completely.

I wouldn't like to be treated like a cheap rental car being a premier player in this league, why should Kaberle?

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01-19-2011, 10:13 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Capgeek says it fits... there is no evidence thus far that Drury can return to being a top 6 forward, which is what Toronto would want.

He is being outplayed on the offensive depth chart by Brandon Prust, a 5 foot 7 rookie, the list goes on and on.

In a Drury for Kaberle swap, you're adding, not asking for more. And then there is that pesky NMC to deal with.

I dont deny that Burke like Drury. I just dont think he likes him that much.
There's also nothing to suggest that Drury would waive his NMC to go to Toronto.

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01-19-2011, 10:15 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngbloodhockey View Post
It's a lot better then this gambling stuff you're suggesting. Some minimal return for Kaberle doesn't really help Toronto to begin with, then there is a good chance we lose out on our 50-60 PMD completely.

I wouldn't like to be treated like a cheap rental car being a premier player in this league, why should Kaberle?
Not sure it's gambling. If both sides agree with the understanding that they with the understanding they will get a deal done on 7/1, what's the gamble?

Burke gets assets for a team that is still rebuilding. Kaberle gets to play in the playoffs.

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01-19-2011, 10:17 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by youngbloodhockey View Post
It's a lot better then this gambling stuff you're suggesting. Some minimal return for Kaberle doesn't really help Toronto to begin with, then there is a good chance we lose out on our 50-60 PMD completely.

I wouldn't like to be treated like a cheap rental car being a premier player in this league, why should Kaberle?
Its a business. If Kaberle is too sensitive to understand that dealing him, with the intent of re-signing him on July first is better for the org, then he has an issue.

Gives him a chance to compete for the cup, and lets him stay in the city he loves.

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01-19-2011, 10:22 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Not sure it's gambling. If both sides agree with the understanding that they with the understanding they will get a deal done on 7/1, what's the gamble?

Burke gets assets for a team that is still rebuilding. Kaberle gets to play in the playoffs.
It's absolutely gambling. You just don't see it because you want Kaberle for peanuts which won't happen.

Would you trade Staal for a minimal return and hope he comes back, or just keep him without taking that chance?

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01-19-2011, 10:23 AM
  #66
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Burke will ask for the world, Sather will say no, and Kaberle will remain with the blue and white.

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01-19-2011, 10:28 AM
  #67
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Not saying I'd do this but going by whats been said in this thread and not knowing much about what kaberle wants to do with his future and where to sign, how about the rangers tag on a conditional first round pick if kaberle resigns, this potentially gets Burke a second+ and the chance at a first if he looses kaberle. And if kaberle does in fact want to stay in Toronto so badly he can go back nobody's forcing him to sign in ny.

To TOR
Ryan bourque
Better of NYs two 2nd round draft picks
Conditional 1st if kaberle resigns with NY

To NY
Kaberle

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01-19-2011, 10:32 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
But that's the thing right now they don't have one.
Im confident that staal and girardi will be matured enough to be a veteran presence on the blue line, both leading by example and instilling their blue collar defensive play in the rookies, I'm also banking on del zotto coming back and improving on what he did last year an becoming the offensive threat and ppqb he was last year.

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01-19-2011, 10:39 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Rangerdanger20 View Post
Not saying I'd do this but going by whats been said in this thread and not knowing much about what kaberle wants to do with his future and where to sign, how about the rangers tag on a conditional first round pick if kaberle resigns, this potentially gets Burke a second+ and the chance at a first if he looses kaberle. And if kaberle does in fact want to stay in Toronto so badly he can go back nobody's forcing him to sign in ny.

To TOR
Ryan bourque
Better of NYs two 2nd round draft picks
Conditional 1st if kaberle resigns with NY

To NY
Kaberle
lol kind of the same as what i said but yea i think thats a good deal and again toronto gets cap and good picks in replace for kab. i dont know bourque very well he seems to be doing well on the ramparts is there anything else about the kid to know?

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01-19-2011, 10:42 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by tankotopgun View Post
lol kind of the same as what i said but yea i think thats a good deal and again toronto gets cap and good picks in replace for kab. i dont know bourque very well he seems to be doing well on the ramparts is there anything else about the kid to know?
Small, has injury and concussion issues.
In other words hes a good kid but huge question mark when it comes to how he would handle the physicality of pro hockey, considering the problems he has in the very light Q.

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01-19-2011, 10:45 AM
  #71
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well knowing that we really dont need more small. i would rather go with 2 2nd rounders with the 1st round condition if he resigns. dont think thats unreasonable

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01-19-2011, 10:58 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
I can almost guarantee Sather is kicking the tires on a Kaberle deal. Burke and Sather are buddies and have a history( Antropov for 2nd for example)

What would the Leafs expect back for Kaberle?

I imagine a 2nd rounder would be a starting point. I don't think the Rangers would move top young prospecs for a rental but they may add Gilroy who is playing well of late and a extra F like Christensen who is currently injured but has one more year at 1.1 million

For a UFA like Kaberle I would say a 2nd, Gilroy, Christensen would be plenty and Leafs may even have to add something. I am sure others will think I am nuts and want more , lol

thoughts?
My thoughts are this is the typical pile of poop that you see in EVERY HF proposal.

Gilroy has not developed and Christensen is not the answer. You are trying to grab form everything expendable and land a top 10 scoring Dman.

How bout Gunnarson (Gilroy), Bozak (Christiansen), and a 2nd for Marc Staal. I'd wager to say Gunnar and Bozak are younger and better players and the pick is even higher - so it's a far superior package to the pile of poop you offered. Thoughts?

There aren't any thoughts - it's not even close enough to what the Leafs would consider. If you take a scoop of poop and pile it on top of more poop you just end up with a bigger pile. Leafs have enough of there own crap.

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01-19-2011, 10:58 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Small, has injury and concussion issues.
In other words hes a good kid but huge question mark when it comes to how he would handle the physicality of pro hockey, considering the problems he has in the very light Q.
Exacty why we should pawn him off now

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Old
01-19-2011, 11:01 AM
  #74
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so what would it take?

I can see leaf Fans asking for a 2nd + Grachev but I feel that's overpayment for a UFA
Kaberle is better than Rozival...so start with a good young forward and add.

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01-19-2011, 11:03 AM
  #75
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you don't trade a 20 yr old that is a key part of the future for a UFA so no it's not that simple

In the end Leaf fans over value Kaberle. UFA rentals do not hold that much value. He will get back a good pick and a descent prospect not much more than that

as for the Rangers they could use him on the PP but he would not be resigned next yr given the cap
You don't get a top 10 scoring dman for a package of third liners and bottom pairing dmen that are overpaid.

Might as well look elsewhere since its obvious Ranger fans are delusional about the value of Kabs.

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