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Old
01-19-2011, 02:56 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Danglefest View Post
If colborne was any other prospect not on the b's roster not named caron and seguin(whos not really a prospect at this point) id say no problem at all.

ryder makes too much sense as the salary dump for both teams. doesnt affect calgary after this season giving them wiggle room, helps bruins fit in iginla both on the wing in the top 6 and salary wise

if colborne is a must in the deal then wheeler/min 2nd would have to be changed to paille or a mid-prospect (a less valuable piece in other words)

but i dont see trading two envisioned top 6 players for an aging(yet still very talented) one which is why its hard for me to see why the b's include both, although certainly possible
what if the 2nd became a 3rd (Coyotes, since you moved yours in the Horton deal)

I really think moving Iginla for Toronto's 1st & Colborne is exactly what the Flames need to jumpstart a rebuild... adding those 2 pieces to a probable top 10 pick of our own (maybe also top 5 if we move Iginla) plus whatever we can get for Regehr (hopefully another 1st plus a prospect) and hopefully we'd be set to start moving forward

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01-19-2011, 03:05 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
what if the 2nd became a 3rd (Coyotes, since you moved yours in the Horton deal)

I really think moving Iginla for Toronto's 1st & Colborne is exactly what the Flames need to jumpstart a rebuild... adding those 2 pieces to a probable top 10 pick of our own (maybe also top 5 if we move Iginla) plus whatever we can get for Regehr (hopefully another 1st plus a prospect) and hopefully we'd be set to start moving forward
TOR 1st
Colborne
Ryder
BOS 2ND

for

Iginla
CAL 2nd

the swap in second rounders is merely to move up some in the second round to soften the loss of the lottery pick

i would do this trade after slight hesitation becuase the future has to come some day, i still think the bruins are set up for the long run but the fact iginla is signed for a couple years and is FA when we need to resign seguin it all falls in to place and allows the TOR 1st to be traded and with iginla coming over he's taking the spot thatd be open for colborne.

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Old
01-19-2011, 03:09 AM
  #53
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i still dont think PC will include that TOR 1st though like i said at the start, even if its what it might take, that pick is part of what has defined his legacy in beantown (bending TOR in the kessel trade and getting 2 lotto picks for a playoff team)

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01-19-2011, 03:30 AM
  #54
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Dr D, I like that trade but Calgary does not have its second rounder.

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Old
01-19-2011, 04:00 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Calgary Highlander View Post
Dr D, I like that trade but Calgary does not have its second rounder.
ahh i see...do you have a second rounder at all by any chance? or perhaps a prospect closer to high than middle

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Old
01-19-2011, 04:11 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Dr Danglefest View Post
ahh i see...do you have a second rounder at all by any chance? or perhaps a prospect closer to high than middle
we have no 2nd or 3rd at the moment actually... but we could include a decent prospect... perhaps a guy like John Negrin who appears to have top 4 potential, is big, pretty mobile and is said to be good with the puck but has had his development slowed a bit by injuries since turning pro? He is only in his 2nd year pro and in 48 games with the Heat he has 5 goals and 16 points... he also didn't look out of place in his 3 NHL games in 08/09 before he stepped on the ice for the Heat... another option is Mitch Wahl (assuming he bounces back from the viscious hit he took this season with the Heat) he looks like he will be a solid #3 center at the NHL level when he is ready

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01-19-2011, 07:20 AM
  #57
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So why would Savard waive to come to Calgary? The only way he waives IS TO play with Iginla. Honestly, its a pretty lousy trade for the Flames.

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Old
01-19-2011, 09:14 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
while I don't have an issue with your proposal i think people need to realize this is not a Hossa or Kovalchuk situation... this is closer to the situation Pronger was in when he went from Anaheim to Philadelphia...

this is not a rental where you have 1 shot at the cup... its a situation where you get a 30-35 goal scorer who is labelled as one of the great leaders in the game for 3 tries at the cup... so not only could you have teams that think they can win this year bidding for his services... you could have teams that think they will be able to win in the next 3 years bidding...

this has potential to be a true bidding war... thats why the Toronto 1st could easily be in play... because one of your biggest rivals in Montreal can likely match anything you put in a deal except that pick... that pick puts you in the drivers seat in any bidding war and you do it without crippling your franchise
The Toronto 1st won't be in play. It just doesn't happen. We heard the same stories last year as to why Boston would be trading that Tor 1st for a run at the cup now, but those theories don't take into consideration the impact a top 5 pick has to an organization.

What is more likely to happen is Boston makes the Toronto pick come draft day, and deals their own to strengthen their current roster much like they did last off-season.

Also, in regards to Iginla, yes, he's a great player. He's also 33 going on 34. First, he doesn't guarantee Boston a cup. Second, there are very few players that don't have a significant drop off at Iginla's age. The players you mention above were both in their primes when they were dealt, so yes this is a different situation on multiple fronts.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Iginla if Calgary does decide to trade him will take in a fair haul. I don't think there will be many teams willing to go higher then a young potential #1 center (already capable), and a mid first round pick. Remember, this entire scenario is based on the premise that Calgary wants to trade him in he first place. If Boston added another prospect with top line, #1 C potential, I don't think there is another team in the league that would touch it value wise.

Boston has no reason to add the Toronto 1st unless Calgary doesn't actually want to trade Iggy and they're trying to convince them to do so, and I doubt they do that.

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Old
01-19-2011, 09:40 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
The Toronto 1st won't be in play. It just doesn't happen. We heard the same stories last year as to why Boston would be trading that Tor 1st for a run at the cup now, but those theories don't take into consideration the impact a top 5 pick has to an organization.

What is more likely to happen is Boston makes the Toronto pick come draft day, and deals their own to strengthen their current roster much like they did last off-season.

Also, in regards to Iginla, yes, he's a great player. He's also 33 going on 34. First, he doesn't guarantee Boston a cup. Second, there are very few players that don't have a significant drop off at Iginla's age. The players you mention above were both in their primes when they were dealt, so yes this is a different situation on multiple fronts.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Iginla if Calgary does decide to trade him will take in a fair haul. I don't think there will be many teams willing to go higher then a young potential #1 center (already capable), and a mid first round pick. Remember, this entire scenario is based on the premise that Calgary wants to trade him in he first place. If Boston added another prospect with top line, #1 C potential, I don't think there is another team in the league that would touch it value wise.

Boston has no reason to add the Toronto 1st unless Calgary doesn't actually want to trade Iggy and they're trying to convince them to do so, and I doubt they do that.
The TOR 1st AND Colborne won't be in play, so /thread I guess.

Like I say with every proposal, theres ways we can improve our lineup into a legit contender by not trading the likes of Rask, Seguin, Colborne, TOR 1st, and I'd bet my life savings that none of those four will be dealt this season.

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Old
01-19-2011, 11:00 AM
  #60
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I don't have any issue with trading the Toronto pick this year if it is for a high impact player that could possibly push us over the top. Something along the lines of the following, with adjustments as needed for cap purposes...

Savard & TOR 1st for Bouwmeester & CGY 2nd,

Savard is high risk/high reward for Calgary, if he's healthy then they have a top line center that has chemistry with their top line winger. They also get out from under JayBo's contract. Boston gets a solid top 2 defender to skate big minutes and provide much needed puck moving skills, and they get a high end 2nd rounder to balance the loss of a potential top 5 pick.
The Toronto pick is a gamble in every sense of the word. It's currently top 5, but I see more likelihood that it slips lower rather than higher as we go forward. If it's 5th or outside of that, there is no guarantee it does anything to help Boston in the near (or even distant) future.

All that said, I'd be happy with a final return of Seguin, Bouwmeester, Jared Knight, and a 2nd rounder for Savard & Kessel.

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Old
01-19-2011, 11:09 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPV View Post
I don't have any issue with trading the Toronto pick this year if it is for a high impact player that could possibly push us over the top. Something along the lines of the following, with adjustments as needed for cap purposes...

Savard & TOR 1st for Bouwmeester & CGY 2nd,

Savard is high risk/high reward for Calgary, if he's healthy then they have a top line center that has chemistry with their top line winger. They also get out from under JayBo's contract. Boston gets a solid top 2 defender to skate big minutes and provide much needed puck moving skills, and they get a high end 2nd rounder to balance the loss of a potential top 5 pick.
The Toronto pick is a gamble in every sense of the word. It's currently top 5, but I see more likelihood that it slips lower rather than higher as we go forward. If it's 5th or outside of that, there is no guarantee it does anything to help Boston in the near (or even distant) future.

All that said, I'd be happy with a final return of Seguin, Bouwmeester, Jared Knight, and a 2nd rounder for Savard & Kessel.
Calgary doesn't have a 2nd

Take one of

Glencross / Hagman / Negrin / Pelech / Morrison / Stajan / Tanguay

to go back instead.

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Old
01-19-2011, 11:12 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
The Toronto 1st won't be in play. It just doesn't happen. We heard the same stories last year as to why Boston would be trading that Tor 1st for a run at the cup now, but those theories don't take into consideration the impact a top 5 pick has to an organization.

What is more likely to happen is Boston makes the Toronto pick come draft day, and deals their own to strengthen their current roster much like they did last off-season.

Also, in regards to Iginla, yes, he's a great player. He's also 33 going on 34. First, he doesn't guarantee Boston a cup. Second, there are very few players that don't have a significant drop off at Iginla's age. The players you mention above were both in their primes when they were dealt, so yes this is a different situation on multiple fronts.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Iginla if Calgary does decide to trade him will take in a fair haul. I don't think there will be many teams willing to go higher then a young potential #1 center (already capable), and a mid first round pick. Remember, this entire scenario is based on the premise that Calgary wants to trade him in he first place. If Boston added another prospect with top line, #1 C potential, I don't think there is another team in the league that would touch it value wise.

Boston has no reason to add the Toronto 1st unless Calgary doesn't actually want to trade Iggy and they're trying to convince them to do so, and I doubt they do that.
No player guarnatees Boston a cup.

Since Toronto is not getting a player like Crosby, Iginla is probably the best option available to them. Iginla becomes your highest scoring forward. At some point Boston needs to decide this is the year to go for it. Do they do that now while Savard and Chara are still playing well, or do they plan for the future and hold off another 4-5 years. Who knows maybe they get lucky in the next few years without Iginla, or maybe they just need to go for it now.

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Old
01-19-2011, 11:34 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
No player guarnatees Boston a cup.

Since Toronto is not getting a player like Crosby, Iginla is probably the best option available to them. Iginla becomes your highest scoring forward. At some point Boston needs to decide this is the year to go for it. Do they do that now while Savard and Chara are still playing well, or do they plan for the future and hold off another 4-5 years. Who knows maybe they get lucky in the next few years without Iginla, or maybe they just need to go for it now.
For how long, 1 year? 2 years? It's not worth the trade off, If we were talking Shae Weber then sure, deal that pick ++++, but we're talking about a 33 (soon to be 44) year old Iginla here. Acquiring him makes that window to win smaller, not bigger, which with the way Boston is built should be what they are trying for.

And again, do you think a team is going to offer more value then a Krejci +Colborne + Bos1st rounder package for Iginla? If so, who? What's your idea of a realistic return. If not, why would Boston throw in a far better pick for good measure?

Answer, they wouldn't.

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Old
01-19-2011, 11:34 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
No player guarnatees Boston a cup.

Since Toronto is not getting a player like Crosby, Iginla is probably the best option available to them. Iginla becomes your highest scoring forward. At some point Boston needs to decide this is the year to go for it. Do they do that now while Savard and Chara are still playing well, or do they plan for the future and hold off another 4-5 years. Who knows maybe they get lucky in the next few years without Iginla, or maybe they just need to go for it now.
Agreed.

Boston needs to make their decision, and I think NOW is the time.

Iginla's contract actually fits Boston quite well, given their current contracts.

Iginla has two years on his deal @ 7 million
Seguin has two years on his deal @ 3.35

When Seguin is due for a raise, Iginla comes off the books and probably re-signs for significantly less.

To BOS: Iginla, Mikkleson (pending RFA)
To CGY: Ryder, Ference, Toronto's 1st.
(the #'s work if done on deadline day)

Lucic - Savard - Iginla
Seguin - Bergeron - Horton
Paille - Krejci - Wheeler
Campbell - Marchand - Recchi
Thornton

Chara - Seidenberg
Boychuk - Stuart
Mikkleson - McQuaid
Kampfer

Thomas
Rask

(apologies if the Bruins lines are way off)

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01-19-2011, 11:47 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by ComixZone View Post
Agreed.

Boston needs to make their decision, and I think NOW is the time.

Iginla's contract actually fits Boston quite well, given their current contracts.

Iginla has two years on his deal @ 7 million
Seguin has two years on his deal @ 3.35

When Seguin is due for a raise, Iginla comes off the books and probably re-signs for significantly less.

To BOS: Iginla, Mikkleson (pending RFA)
To CGY: Ryder, Ference, Toronto's 1st.
(the #'s work if done on deadline day)

Lucic - Savard - Iginla
Seguin - Bergeron - Horton
Paille - Krejci - Wheeler
Campbell - Marchand - Recchi
Thornton

Chara - Seidenberg
Boychuk - Stuart
Mikkleson - McQuaid
Kampfer

Thomas
Rask

(apologies if the Bruins lines are way off)

Replace Ference with Krejci, and I'd have interest.....otherwise, no thanks. Flames are not in a position where they have to trade Iginla, so there is no rush to get a deal done. If teams want him, they have to pay big.....if not, we keep him.

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Old
01-19-2011, 11:48 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by SaintMorose View Post
Calgary doesn't have a 2nd

Take one of

Glencross / Hagman / Negrin / Pelech / Morrison / Stajan / Tanguay

to go back instead.
Boston would need to add to make the salary work (perhaps even wait until the deadline. Maybe,

Savard, Ference, TOR 1st
for
Bouwmeester, Morrison (or Tanguay), and a conditional 2nd 2012 based on Savard's health/games played, if that's legal

Looking forward to next year, this deal wouldn't handcuff either team capwise either, as both would have ample cap space to fill out their roster.

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Old
01-19-2011, 11:54 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Would Boston accept a trade for Iggy, that had TO's 1st going back the other way along with Colborne and Ryder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary Highlander View Post
You're right, I'd want both.

Krejci, Colborne, Boston's 1st (if all goes well, should be a late 1st)

for Iginla and Pardy (a big solid bottom-pairing defensemen that helps Boston's depth on defense for the stretch and playoff runs, also needed for evening out contracts).

I really wouldn't go any lower. At that point, it's just not worth it to trade Iginla. Boston is really dealing from a position of strength as they already have a bunch of solid centermen and also have TO's 1st.
A little too much for Iginla but I agree the Toronto 1st is in play if Iginla is. Colborne and Toronto's 1st with Ryder and Ference going as well makes it a tempting offer for both sides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComixZone View Post
Agreed.

Boston needs to make their decision, and I think NOW is the time.

Iginla's contract actually fits Boston quite well, given their current contracts.

Iginla has two years on his deal @ 7 million
Seguin has two years on his deal @ 3.35

When Seguin is due for a raise, Iginla comes off the books and probably re-signs for significantly less.

To BOS: Iginla, Mikkleson (pending RFA)
To CGY: Ryder, Ference, Toronto's 1st.
(the #'s work if done on deadline day)

Lucic - Savard - Iginla
Seguin - Bergeron - Horton
Paille - Krejci - Wheeler
Campbell - Marchand - Recchi
Thornton

Chara - Seidenberg
Boychuk - Stuart
Mikkleson - McQuaid
Kampfer

Thomas
Rask

(apologies if the Bruins lines are way off)
Great post. I have been on the Iginla talk since last season.

Boston and Calgary make perhaps the best trading partners in the entire NHL right now.

1. Iginla going to the Eastern Conference? Check.
2. Iginla going to a contender? Check.
3. Iginla's contract matching up with Seguin's? Check.
4. Iginla waiving to play with friends (Lucic, Savard, Bergeron, Ference and Recchi) Check.
5. Boston's top prospect from Calgary, young 1A potential? Check
6. Top ten Draft pick going to Calagary to add to their own? Check.

This move gives Calgary Colborne to play center next year and two top ten draft picks in a year where the top 6 are pretty even. Even if Boston had to add another prospect, they are a team that is able to do so.

One team builds up for a Cup run, the other excels their rebuild by almost a year.

Let's not give up on these discussions fans!

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Old
01-19-2011, 11:56 AM
  #68
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One quick question to Calgary fans...

What holds more value?

Toronto's 1st in 2011

or

Colborne and Boston's 1st in 2011?

I'm sure all three are on the table in some form but which one holds more value?

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01-19-2011, 12:04 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Coach Parker View Post
A little too much for Iginla but I agree the Toronto 1st is in play if Iginla is. Colborne and Toronto's 1st with Ryder and Ference going as well makes it a tempting offer for both sides.



Great post. I have been on the Iginla talk since last season.

Boston and Calgary make perhaps the best trading partners in the entire NHL right now.

1. Iginla going to the Eastern Conference? Check.
2. Iginla going to a contender? Check.
3. Iginla's contract matching up with Seguin's? Check.
4. Iginla waiving to play with friends (Lucic, Savard, Bergeron, Ference and Recchi) Check.
5. Boston's top prospect from Calgary, young 1A potential? Check
6. Top ten Draft pick going to Calagary to add to their own? Check.

This move gives Calgary Colborne to play center next year and two top ten draft picks in a year where the top 6 are pretty even. Even if Boston had to add another prospect, they are a team that is able to do so.

One team builds up for a Cup run, the other excels their rebuild by almost a year.

Let's not give up on these discussions fans!
...I didn't even include Colborne. If he also gets sent to Calgary, then yaaaay

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01-19-2011, 12:08 PM
  #70
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...I didn't even include Colborne. If he also gets sent to Calgary, then yaaaay
I think he is a big piece for Calgary and excels their rebuild. Colborne is simply adding a 1st that is ready next season to play. His development has come along well and he left Denver because of it. Boston has been very patient with him as a project and it is paying off.

Sad thing is, he is trying to get a job as a centerman in Boston where Seguin, Savard, Krejci and Bergeron make their home.

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01-19-2011, 12:09 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Parker View Post
One quick question to Calgary fans...

What holds more value?

Toronto's 1st in 2011

or

Colborne and Boston's 1st in 2011?

I'm sure all three are on the table in some form but which one holds more value?
Well we need a player capable of replacing Iggy as the face of the franchise, Colbourne gives a chance at that and TO's first also give's a chance at that. Neither atm are projected to be Iggy in his prime which is why we are so "greedy" in looking at both (However I think we've been pretty good in not bothering about Seguin as that would get nothing accomplished).

If TO's pick is top 4 and we get RNH / Couturier / Landeskog
we would feel a lot better about losing Iggy (not great)

atm I would say TO's 1st holds more value in the assumption they finish 4th last if not probably BOS 1st + Colbourne

if that makes sense


Last edited by SaintAnton: 01-19-2011 at 12:22 PM.
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01-19-2011, 12:18 PM
  #72
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If i am the flames i trade iginla only for a top prospect and pick. its not like i have to rush to move a sniper with 2 more contracted years.

im no flames fan but id play the field.
offer
tanguay, Iggy to Bos for Seguin Colborne and THEIR first..if the answer is no tell them you will call PITTS next (if pitts gets those two just hand sid the cup and stop playing) and WSH and maybe PHI/Tbay.
of course with cap it would turn into

tangs iggy to bs for seguin solborne ryder and bos 1st
One team in the east will be stacked by days end.
That's just awful. You think Boston would deal its sub-20 year old franchise player for a declining 30+ year old franchise player making a TON of salary and ADD their top prospect AND a 1st? Along the same lines, very doubtful the Bruins moving the Tor 1 in this deal. The Bos 1 is a different story.


And at OP, that is pretty good I'd imagine. Both teams have something to gain from it.

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01-19-2011, 12:32 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by BeerLeagueFanatic View Post

And at OP, that is pretty good I'd imagine. Both teams have something to gain from it.

Except the Flames....

Ryder = cap dump
Savard = very risky, and potential burden at this point, and who exactly would he play with on the Flames if Iginla is gone?
2011 first = looking to be very late first at this point.
Zach Hamill = He is 22 years old now and has only ever played 1 NHL game. Has 3 goals in Providence this year. He may never be a regular NHL player
Jamie Arniel = See above. I would say he has a slightly better chance of making the NHL, but would be stretching it say he is a top 6 guy, and he doesn't really have the size to play in the Flames bottom 6.
Andrew Bodnarchuk = How many players like this do the Flames already have in their system? The answer is many. He would never crack through the Flames depth at defence.

So basically....the Flames trade Iginla for a bunch of mediocre prospects. Yeah that's what the Flames need more of...



The Flames would be much better off keeping Iginla.

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01-19-2011, 12:44 PM
  #74
Lunatik*
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Parker View Post
One quick question to Calgary fans...

What holds more value?

Toronto's 1st in 2011

or

Colborne and Boston's 1st in 2011?

I'm sure all three are on the table in some form but which one holds more value?
its close... but i could take colborne and the bos 1st... we will already have likely a top 10 pick in this draft, we could package the 2 together to move up if needed

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01-19-2011, 01:01 PM
  #75
patty59
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Wheeler, Colborne, BOS 1st and MIN 2nd for Iginla

IMO that's a fair deal, if they want TOR 1st then remove the 2 draft picks and CGY would have to send their 1st.

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