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Zach Parise + NJ 2011 1st

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Old
01-19-2011, 01:21 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov 28 View Post
A weak draft after the top-10. I wouldn't trade Parise for Gaborik straight up and a rookie DFD doesn't make up the difference in value.

Callahan holds more value to the Rangers then he does New Jersey. Callahan and a 2nd is not enough to trade away Parise and a top-5 pick.

Callahan is a great heart and soul player but he isn't worth the chance to draft a potential franchise player. At the end of the day Callahan is a 2nd/3rd line winger.
The reality of it is the Rangers probably would never move the guy anyway.

Here's another one.

Parise minus 1st

Marian Gaborik + Sauer or McDonough +NYR 2nd 2011

Parise plus the 1st

Marian Gaborik, Chris Kreider, MDZ, 2011 2nd.

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Old
01-19-2011, 01:25 PM
  #77
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You'd get more value for trading them separately. How many teams have enough for both? More importantly it makes no sense...

Cup contending teams would want to move picks for Parise

Rebuilding teams would want to move roster players for the pick

So essentially you'd be trading a (or several) very high pick and a top quality roster player for..... a very high pick and a top quality roster player.

The value doesn't make any sense.

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01-19-2011, 01:42 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamirven View Post
I am never certain if Canucks fans are serious when they compare Parise to Kesler.

Kesler is not in the same league as Parise, in my view. Consistency is the key element that differentiates between stars and above-average NHLers. First let Kesler put up 3-4 consecutive 80pt seasons. Then, and only then, would he be of similar value to Zach Parise.
Exactly. Kesler has never hit 30 goals, Parise has done it 4 years in a row while playing comparable defensively.

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01-19-2011, 01:43 PM
  #79
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I think people are really overestimating the value.

Zach Parise is a good player, but he's probably not a top 10 player (Crosby, Stamkos, Ovechkin, Malkin, H. Sedin, D. Sedin, Backstrom, Doughty, Getzlaf, E. Staal and maybe Kovalchuk are all players I'd take over him)

IMO, his value is close to that of Kopitar/Stastny/P. Kane/Semin, which is certainly high, but not as high as the aforementioned players.

Also consider that the 2011 draft is supposed to be a weak class with Couturier being compared to Jordan Staal. Once again, a solid prospect, but not in the same league as Stamkos, Tavares, Hall, etc.

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01-19-2011, 01:58 PM
  #80
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kaberle+kessel+kadri+2nd'11 for parise+1st

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01-19-2011, 02:03 PM
  #81
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I look at pens proposals here and feel that we're low-balling a lil for the package.

realistically, this would be the kind of deal that would pry Parise and the 1st from them.

Pens:
Parise
1st 2011
Salary dump (Not name Rolston to make the deal happen) White? Salvador(If he returns)? Tallinder?

Devils:
Malkin
Goligoski
2nd

Pens get their Winger for Crosby and a good draft pick for a winger for Staal

Devils get a top end player in return for Parise who we already know has great chemistry with Kovalchuck. They also get a PMD in gologoski that is signed for cheap for anoher year.

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Old
01-19-2011, 02:03 PM
  #82
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I don't understand why people talk like Ovechkin is invaluable. He isn't even the best player on his team.

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Old
01-19-2011, 02:07 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
I don't understand why people talk like Ovechkin is invaluable. He isn't even the best player on his team.

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Old
01-19-2011, 02:26 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Exactly. Kesler has never hit 30 goals, Parise has done it 4 years in a row while playing comparable defensively.
Kesler has obviously developed at a slower place and had far fewer opportunity than Parise - not to take away from Parise's elite offensive production, but to put things in perspective the year before last Kesler was 8th among forwards on the Canucks in powerplay time on ice per game.

But I would say that Kesler is a better defensive player than Parise (who has had 0:12, 0:09, 0:21, and 0:33 in SHTOI/G in his four full seasons thusfar in his career).

Overall at this juncture, Parise has more value but we'll see in a couple of years what kind of bang each player provides for their respective buck.

I'm not trying to extend this argument by the way, just putting another perspective out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by williamirven View Post
I am never certain if Canucks fans are serious when they compare Parise to Kesler.
The post you quoted is not to be taken seriously.

Quote:
Consistency is the key element that differentiates between stars and above-average NHLers.
I wouldn't say that consistency is a problem for Kesler, he simply developed his offensive game later (keep in mind he is not yet 26).

But I agree, in order to be considered an "established star" we'll have to see what he can do over the next couple of years.

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Old
01-19-2011, 02:28 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov 28 View Post
Parise + Rolston

Bouwmeester + 2011 1st + 2012 1st + 2012 2nd

You have to figure Parise is worth 4 1st rounders if a GM wants him that badly. In this case by taking Rolston from us we'd let you substitute one of the 1st rounders for a 2nd.

Bouwmeester 2 1sts, 1 2nd.
Parise is not worth 4 first rounders. There is ridiculous homerism and there is ridiculous homerism.

Considering offer sheets up to 6.0 (or more depending on the cap for 2011) only give you 1st second 3rd in this weak draft, the Devils are screwed.

Did you know they can offer Parise up to 7.5 mil and only get 2 first rounders , a second and third . In this weak draft?

A whole pile of teams are going to offer that for him and drive his asking price right out of the Devils league.


Devils are screwed. They either pay Parise a long term 6.5 mil dollar deal or hes out of there.


Devils already have to eat the ridiculous Kovalca$h deal, Rolston and others, and now they will have to eat a 6 or more million dollar guy who has already peaked.

It sucks , but dont think the Devils are in a position to demand any deal from another GM.

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01-19-2011, 02:35 PM
  #86
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Kesler never plays first line minutes. Kesler has half baked linemates that are constantly revolving so Parise has a better situation offensively. Parise is thus far the better offensive talent.

Kesler has been the Selke finalist 2 years and running and will probably win it this year. Comparing the two defensively is a JOKE.

Kesler has 4 straight 2 goal season in THREE DIFFERENT ROLES.

2007-08 was a hard match shutdown center

2008-09 was a second line WINGER

09-10 second line CENTER

10-11 emerging as the 1b center (pretty tough to be ahead of Henrik Sedin)

Kesler is locked down at only 5 mil for his entire prime.

Parise is going to demand at least 6.5 mil or more if it becomes moneyball

which one do you want. Honestly.

Parise for 6.5 or Kesler for 5.0

I dont think its even that close. Kesler is the better deal.

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01-19-2011, 02:37 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedved1 View Post
Parise is not worth 4 first rounders. There is ridiculous homerism and there is ridiculous homerism.

Considering offer sheets up to 6.0 (or more depending on the cap for 2011) only give you 1st second 3rd in this weak draft, the Devils are screwed.

Did you know they can offer Parise up to 7.5 mil and only get 2 first rounders , a second and third . In this weak draft?

A whole pile of teams are going to offer that for him and drive his asking price right out of the Devils league.


Devils are screwed. They either pay Parise a long term 6.5 mil dollar deal or hes out of there.



Devils already have to eat the ridiculous Kovalca$h deal, Rolston and others, and now they will have to eat a 6 or more million dollar guy who has already peaked.

It sucks , but dont think the Devils are in a position to demand any deal from another GM.
Winner for most uneducated post ever.

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Old
01-19-2011, 02:39 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by DevsFan7545 View Post
Winner for most uneducated post ever.
Stop trolling my post. Jerk.

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Old
01-19-2011, 02:40 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedved1 View Post
Parise is not worth 4 first rounders. There is ridiculous homerism and there is ridiculous homerism.
He's twice the player Kessel is, at this point. Combine that with the fact that the firsts likely won't be at the top of the draft..

Quote:
Considering offer sheets up to 6.0 (or more depending on the cap for 2011) only give you 1st second 3rd in this weak draft, the Devils are screwed.

Did you know they can offer Parise up to 7.5 mil and only get 2 first rounders , a second and third . In this weak draft?
You don't know what you're talking about. Any offer sheet big enough to scare the Devils away will have a substantial term attached to it, and the entire dollar amount of an offer sheet can be averaged over a maximum of five years.

So if you offered Parise a ten year, $75m offer sheet you would be compensating the Devils for a $15m/year offer sheet.

Quote:
A whole pile of teams are going to offer that for him and drive his asking price right out of the Devils league.
How many offer sheets have been signed since the lockout? How many offer sheets averaging over $5m?

Quote:
Devils are screwed. They either pay Parise a long term 6.5 mil dollar deal or hes out of there.

Devils already have to eat the ridiculous Kovalca$h deal, Rolston and others, and now they will have to eat a 6 or more million dollar guy who has already peaked.
The Devils can easily afford to resign Parise. They already have $8m in space next year, ignoring the likely increase in the cap and their past willingness to eat contracts in the minors.

You simply don't have a clue on this one.

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Old
01-19-2011, 02:41 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrosbyOwnsYou View Post
I look at pens proposals here and feel that we're low-balling a lil for the package.

realistically, this would be the kind of deal that would pry Parise and the 1st from them.

Pens:
Parise
1st 2011
Salary dump (Not name Rolston to make the deal happen) White? Salvador(If he returns)? Tallinder?

Devils:
Malkin
Goligoski
2nd

Pens get their Winger for Crosby and a good draft pick for a winger for Staal

Devils get a top end player in return for Parise who we already know has great chemistry with Kovalchuck. They also get a PMD in gologoski that is signed for cheap for anoher year.
Goligoski makes me REALLY tempted to do this. He's exactly the kind of defenseman that New Jersey needs.

It would probably have to be Rolston though. Trading Parise means we lose his $3.125M in LTIR cap relief, AND add a net $5.5M+. in salary. Unless New Jersey throws in Clarkson and Zubrus, in which case New Jersey would need at least one more roster player coming back. Elias might be an option, but I doubt he waives his NMC, even to go to Pittsburgh. Besides, he still has value as a player so again the Pens would have to add.

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Old
01-19-2011, 02:42 PM
  #91
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I sure as hell wouldn't want another streaky non two way forward Malkin. Nor would I like about 15 million tied up with 2 players.

Parise+Larsson/Landeskog/RNH/Couturier>Malkin for a Devils perspective anyway.

And you have to be careful who you trade it to a Crosby and Parise line would be crazy and that would Pittsburgh way above NJ.

Lol @the person who said Parise+1st for Kesler, Parise puts up more points on the first line than Kesler on a second line and Kesler is better defensively but it's not like Zach's terribe in his own end.


Whatever I would rather keep Zach at under 7 million and our top pick than trade them both away.

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Old
01-19-2011, 02:43 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
Parise is good, very good... but people seem to think he's ****ing Mario Gretzky or something.

If you wouldn't do Schenn + Doughty Vs Parise and 1st overall... you are smoking crack. Doughty would bring a element to this team that Parise can't even if he tried and adding a strong centerman like Schenn to complement Zajac, Josefson and Henrique would be awesome.

C'mon Lou, give Dean a call... apparently he wants to make a trade. I know the source isn't all that great but there's a chance
Nobody thinks Parise is that good.

Notice how its all the devils fans trying to make these trades? If Parise is so good, why don't you just sign him.

I don't trade Doughty for Parise. Thats a total ripoff for the kings.

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01-19-2011, 02:45 PM
  #93
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Only a select few Devils' fan would want to trade him most want him back on the team.

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Old
01-19-2011, 02:47 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
You have to remember who you're trading to. Watching Parise and Crosby on the same line would be like watching porn on ice skates. you're basically guaranteeing that a division rival is going to have the best line in the NHL for the next decade, regardless of who their opposite winger is.

And between Malkin and Kovalchuk, we've got +15M a season tied up in two streaky Russians and still have a massive hole on defense.
I never said I wanted to do the deal, I just said Malkin with Kovy would score a bunch of goals. That being said, I don't want Malkin. I'd rather keep Parise at ~2/3 the price, and ~5/6 the points while playing much better defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Parise w/out the 1st

Marian Gaborik + Michael Sauer


Parise w/1st

Marian Gaborik + Ryan Callahan + NYR 2011 2nd. <--Cally is one of my fav all time Rangers...that's how much I want to see Parise in NY.
Devils say no to the first and laugh really, really hard at the 2nd. I mean, we'd have to say no even though Callahan has added value by being your favorite player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedved1 View Post
You give us Parise and your first THIS YEAR and we give you Ryan Kesler
You give us Kesler, and we still won't give you Parise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remember2004 View Post
Since Parise is Injured Cgy will take him off your hands

Cgy:
Parise

NJ:
Bouwmeester
glencross
3rd rnd 2012

Salary will eventually work out since i'm sure Parise will resign will for at least 6.5+ maybe even 7.5m in Calgary of course
Sure, the salary works out, but the trade doesn't. Devils get shafted, even though you through in that VERY nice 2012 3rd. Made it much harder to say no to.

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01-19-2011, 02:47 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by nK View Post
Parise and 1st overall for Bernier,Schenn,Simmonds,Voynov and LA's 1st in 2011 and 1st in 2012.
Burkie is that you??

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01-19-2011, 02:47 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by TDIR8 View Post
I sure as hell wouldn't want another streaky non two way forward Malkin. Nor would I like about 15 million tied up with 2 players.

Parise+Larsson/Landeskog/RNH/Couturier>Malkin for a Devils perspective anyway.

And you have to be careful who you trade it to a Crosby and Parise line would be crazy and that would Pittsburgh way above NJ.

Lol @the person who said Parise+1st for Kesler, Parise puts up more points on the first line than Kesler on a second line and Kesler is better defensively but it's not like Zach's terribe in his own end.


Whatever I would rather keep Zach at under 7 million and our top pick than trade them both away.
Kesler is going to get 40 goals in that second line role with mickey mouse linemates, and win the Selke .

Sure Parise has 3 30 goal seasons and a 40. But its also true hes played a first line role with far better linemates.

And his defensive game is not in the same class as Kesler.

To top it all off, Kesler is locked down at 5mil thru his whole prime.

There is no way I trade that for a 6.5 mil dollar Parise. Hopefully for Devils fans it wont be 7mil .

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01-19-2011, 02:48 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Goligoski makes me REALLY tempted to do this. He's exactly the kind of defenseman that New Jersey needs.

It would probably have to be Rolston though. Trading Parise means we lose his $3.125M in LTIR cap relief, AND add a net $5.5M+. in salary. Unless New Jersey throws in Clarkson and Zubrus, in which case New Jersey would need at least one more roster player coming back. Elias might be an option, but I doubt he waives his NMC, even to go to Pittsburgh. Besides, he still has value as a player so again the Pens would have to add.
This is a ripoff for the Penquins.

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01-19-2011, 02:49 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
I think people are really overestimating the value.

Zach Parise is a good player, but he's probably not a top 10 player (Crosby, Stamkos, Ovechkin, Malkin, H. Sedin, D. Sedin, Backstrom, Doughty, Getzlaf, E. Staal and maybe Kovalchuk are all players I'd take over him)
I would take Parise over both of those guys (although I can debate E. Staal) and maybe Backstrom (if you take away Ovy and Washington's system) an Daniel Sedin (if you take his brother away), but I would add Jonathan Toews to that list of players I would take over Parise.

You have to put Parise's numbers in the context of the system has been playing in and his line-mates. Look at how the Devils are doing w/o him this year.

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01-19-2011, 02:52 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Nedved1 View Post
Kesler is going to get 40 goals in that second line role with mickey mouse linemates, and win the Selke .

Sure Parise has 3 30 goal seasons and a 40. But its also true hes played a first line role with far better linemates.

And his defensive game is not in the same class as Kesler.

To top it all off, Kesler is locked down at 5mil thru his whole prime.

There is no way I trade that for a 6.5 mil dollar Parise. Hopefully for Devils fans it wont be 7mil .
Yeah, Travis Zajac + Dainius Zubrus are elite forwards who make Parise the player he is. Without them, he'd be nothing more than a 20 goal scorer

And his defensive game isn't in the same class? The last two years, Kesler has averaged 3rd in Selke votes and Parise has averaged 10th. Sure, Kesler is better defensively, but is there really that big of a difference?

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01-19-2011, 02:56 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
I think people are really overestimating the value.

Zach Parise is a good player, but he's probably not a top 10 player (Crosby, Stamkos, Ovechkin, Malkin, H. Sedin, D. Sedin, Backstrom, Doughty, Getzlaf, E. Staal and maybe Kovalchuk are all players I'd take over him)

IMO, his value is close to that of Kopitar/Stastny/P. Kane/Semin, which is certainly high, but not as high as the aforementioned players.

Also consider that the 2011 draft is supposed to be a weak class with Couturier being compared to Jordan Staal. Once again, a solid prospect, but not in the same league as Stamkos, Tavares, Hall, etc.
100% agree. Parise is getting way overestimated here. I would say he's top 10-20, as I would take every player you listed and a few others before him.

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