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Kaberle to NYR

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Old
01-19-2011, 02:41 PM
  #176
Jim Morrison
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Originally Posted by jmart21 View Post
It's not a conventional "he'll walk on July 1st" UFA type deal. Kabs won't waive his NTC unless it's to a team he feels he can agree on an extension with.

Also, Burke will not trade him for a 2nd+prospect(s). He had a few "futures packages" offered this summer and refused to budge on his demand for skilled roster player(s) in return. He's probably more of a "stick to my guns" GM than anyone else. HE WILL NOT TAKE PICK(S)+PROSPECT(S).
Well then, Leafs will probably lose him for nothing. I don't understand what's so wrong about a 2nd and a prospect? Especially for a rebuilding(?) team like Toronto. A second round pick in todays NHL is very good.

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01-19-2011, 02:41 PM
  #177
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how about, kaberle and komisarek
for drury and kreider/stepan?
prospects/picks either side?

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01-19-2011, 02:44 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Nope. Boyle was a better defenseman back then, and is still a better defenseman today.


I will give you the point about the contract, that did play a factor. Tampa wasn't looking to take salary back and Boyle's cap number was 6.66/year.
Very debatable who's better now, or even who was better. The Sharks are an offensive powerhouse, the Leafs aren't, yet Kabs is only 2 pts behind overall, 1 pt on the powerplay, and has a +7 rating on him (Boyle: -10 vs Kabs: -3). Not to mention, Boyle makes a ton of money (6.66/yr is a lot for a 34 PMD). That contract, unless Boyle keeps up a 60 pt/season pace for the next 4 seasons, has the serious potential to come back and bite the Sharks. I believe Kaberle will ultimately be signed for less money, equal term.

I do think though that Boyle is a great Dman and brings a lot to the Sharks as a whole, don't get me wrong. I just think Kabs and Boyle are more comparable than most people believe.

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01-19-2011, 02:47 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Jim Morrison View Post
It seems like Leaf fans will be disappointed any way it plays out. They either lose him, undoubtedly, for let's say a 2nd round pick and or a prospect. Or they lose him for nothing when he becomes an UFA.
Again, where are you coming up with this? He has stated many times that he wants to remain a Leaf for life. Why does Burke refusing to trade him for less than he's worth magically make him decide to skip town come July 1st?

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01-19-2011, 02:48 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Why are Ranger fans offering Drury, Gilroy (soon to walk due to qualifier), Christensen (an offensive third line center), Grachev ( a prospect that gets 28 points in 80 games).

Staal is putting some perspective into the conversation. We couldn't get your best dman for a pile of crap - don't think you are getting Kaberle for that.

Leaf fans dont care that hes 32 and a UFA - he's stated recently he wants to play his entire career in Toronto and is on pace for 56 points again.

Trading him would leave a huge gap. Where do you think the Leafs will find another 56 point dman? So why do Ranger's fans think they can get one from their list of expendable assets?

Think about it. You wouldn't trade Staal for anything less then some premier players. Toronto won't move Kaberle unless there is at least one coveted piece coming back.
I'm defending some of the proposals. In fact, I've even critiqued a few.

But comparing Staal's situation to Kaberle's make no sense.

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01-19-2011, 02:49 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Bozak42 View Post
how about, kaberle and komisarek
for drury and kreider/stepan?
prospects/picks either side?
How about no

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01-19-2011, 02:49 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Canuck14 View Post
Again, where are you coming up with this? He has stated many times that he wants to remain a Leaf for life. Why does Burke refusing to trade him for less than he's worth magically make him decide to skip town come July 1st?
A 4-5y deal in the east? A contender?

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01-19-2011, 02:50 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by glucker View Post
incorrect.

During the offseason, if the Leafs missed the playoffs in the prior season, he could be moved to ANY team between the dates you mentioned.


During the season, if the Leafs want to deal Kaberle, they can ask him for a list of 10 teams he'd be willing to be traded to. Burke's first season, Kaberle gave him the list.
Sure, incorrect forgot the full mechanics of it. Regardless, the point I made stands, his NTC is and has been in effect all season, until he resigns or contract expires.

So you tell me, does this mean Burke now has full reign over when he can trade Kaberle to a team on that 10-team list or does he still have to ask his permission?

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01-19-2011, 02:51 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Rangerdanger20 View Post
How about no
how about explaining?

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01-19-2011, 02:53 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I'm defending some of the proposals. In fact, I've even critiqued a few.

But comparing Staal's situation to Kaberle's make no sense.
It's not a comparison. I wouldn't dream of Kaberle for Staal, nor have I suggested it. Merely pointing out that Kaberle is an elite puck moving dman and you don't trade quality for quantity. Just like you wouldn't trade Staal for 12 average players. You'd expect something of significance back.

Brian Burke, Leaf fans all expect if Kaberle is dealt a significant player will come back or he will remain a Leaf. I'm not playing GM here, merely restating what Burke, and countless posters on this board have said repeatedly.

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01-19-2011, 02:55 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozak42 View Post
how about explaining?
I'll try.

1) The Rangers don't need Komisarek and would not be willing to take on his salary for another three seasons. Drury might cost more and have a higher cap hit, but his contract expires at the end of next season. Let's assume though the reason for having Drury and Komisarek in the package is to swap bad contract.

2) The Rangers aren't trading a Krieder or Stepan for a player who would a rental.

So basically for the Rangers:

Drury (1 year at 7) > Komisarek (3 years at 4.5)

Stepan/Krieder > 20 gams of Kaberle.

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01-19-2011, 02:57 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
It's not a comparison. I wouldn't dream of Kaberle for Staal, nor have I suggested it. Merely pointing out that Kaberle is an elite puck moving dman and you don't trade quality for quantity. Just like you wouldn't trade Staal for 12 average players. You'd expect something of significance back.

Brian Burke, Leaf fans all expect if Kaberle is dealt a significant player will come back or he will remain a Leaf. I'm not playing GM here, merely restating what Burke, and countless posters on this board have said repeatedly.
I'm not saying you're suggesting Staal for Kaberle.

Staal's value is far greater than Kaberle's so the idea of introducing Staal as a measuring stick/benchmark for a Kaberle trade package is flawed — even if it is our best defenseman vs your best defenseman.

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01-19-2011, 03:03 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
He had 28 points in 80 games last year as well and is on the same pace.

What makes you think if Kabs isn't traded to the Rangers for a bunch of mediocre players that the Leafs won't find a better offer or sign him. This is where the Ranger fans are delusional.

Keep Grachev, Gilroy, Christensen - the Leafs aren't interested in trading there best defenceman for any of them.
Im not sure how you confuse Gilroy and Christensen with Valentenko and a 2nd... maybe thats your problem, reading comprehension.

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01-19-2011, 03:09 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by youngbloodhockey View Post
Same to you.


Top NHL'ers like Kaberle hold a lot of value, enough to return a good prospect that has not played a NHL game yet. That's the price, not some maybe picks and mid prospects.
lol, you are funny.

Here's how to figure out which one of you is right here...

If the return for a UFA-to-be Kaberle was a top prospect like Kreider, don't you think Burke would've already moved him in a heartbeat? You think he'd still be a leaf if he could've returned a prospect like Kreider? Hell, if that's the price for him now, what was the price for him last season? Kreider + Stepan? At this point you must know you're wrong, but are just being stubborn and refusing to concede the point. I'm sorry, but as a UFA-to-be, the Leafs should be thrilled to get a 2nd and run.

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01-19-2011, 03:14 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Canuck14 View Post
Where on earth are some of you guys getting this idea that the Leafs should take the scraps you are offering for Kaberle or else we will lose him as a UFA? The man has said time and time again that he wants to remain a Toronto Maple Leaf. He has nixxed a trade that would have returned Jeff Carter and a 1st (1000x better than anything being offered in here) and who knows if any others.

Fact of the matter is Tomas Kaberle is one of the premier PMD in the league. Regardless if some of the Leaf haters are willing to admit it or not, his stats back it up. Him and Schenn have combined for an outstanding duo for the Leafs this year. The only reason he is constantly rumored to being on the move is because he is a Toronto Maple Leaf. I would much rather hold onto Kaberle and take my chances on him resigning (and he has given every indication he wants to do so) than ship him out for scraps.
Because the way out of mediocrity is to keep your 33 year old PMD rather then trade him for young assets because by the time Toronto crawls out of the basement of the league Kaberle will be past his prime and no use to them any more. So why not salvage something and get what you can. Valentenko nearly made the team out of camp and should have been called up over McD. Id take him over Gilroy any day of the week. Id have a hard time finding a team willing to give you more than Vtank+ Grachev+ 2nd for 32 year old pending UFA.

And for those who want a top prospect and 1st for him, if Kaberle was a 27/28 year old pending UFA, sure then I can see that. Not a 32 almost 33 year old pending UFA.

Can some one for the life of me explain how Kaberle is a 60 point defenseman? He hit that number once and it was 5 years ago... his 2nd highest total is 58 and then 53. So he cracks 50 twice and 60 once out of 12 years and is a 60 point guy?

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01-19-2011, 03:21 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by ForzaZuffa View Post
Very debatable who's better now, or even who was better. The Sharks are an offensive powerhouse, the Leafs aren't, yet Kabs is only 2 pts behind overall, 1 pt on the powerplay, and has a +7 rating on him (Boyle: -10 vs Kabs: -3). Not to mention, Boyle makes a ton of money (6.66/yr is a lot for a 34 PMD). That contract, unless Boyle keeps up a 60 pt/season pace for the next 4 seasons, has the serious potential to come back and bite the Sharks. I believe Kaberle will ultimately be signed for less money, equal term.

I do think though that Boyle is a great Dman and brings a lot to the Sharks as a whole, don't get me wrong. I just think Kabs and Boyle are more comparable than most people believe.
They are certainly comparable. Boyle is a bit more dynamic. Both are equally inconsistent in their own zone. They're both not far off from starting to decline. Boyle does play with much, much better players. They are definitely comparable players, though.

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01-19-2011, 03:29 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by DelZottoFutureNorris View Post
They are certainly comparable. Boyle is a bit more dynamic. Both are equally inconsistent in their own zone. They're both not far off from starting to decline. Boyle does play with much, much better players. They are definitely comparable players, though.
Absolutely agree, Boyle is more dynamic, while Kaberle just seems blah and just gets it done. And both are definitely inconsistent in own zone, good point.

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01-19-2011, 04:09 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaZuffa View Post
Dude, as a Leaf fan, I'd love to have your team and mine fully switch rosters- and the standings positions that go with it. Your Rangers are 7th in the East, 10 pts clear of 10th, 5 of 9th, and a slew of good young players/prospects that at least equal what the Leafs have. Oh, and one of the best goalies in the world on a good contract. The Rangers are contenders and you guys could definitely use Kaberle as such.
While I appreciate the kind words, here are the clear facts about what is preventing the Rangers from being a contender.

A clear cut true and legit #1 center. Brad Richards would be perfect for this Rangers team.

A PP QB, I believe that the Rangers have a few puck movers, what they do not have yet is the guy at the point on the PP that makes all the correct decisions 95% of the time. I believe that Kaberle is that kind of defenceman. I believe that Del Zotto will be that guy.

A rugged stay at home defenceman. Someone that plays a physical role back on the blue line. (Sauer is developing into that nicely, but he's not there yet)

Secondary scoring. I think that Wolski is a start, I like Dubinsky as our top line LW thus far this season, but with Gaborik not having even a decent season, the lack of secondary scoring is becoming very very evident.

I like where they are going, but we cannot rely on Anisimov and Stepan and Zuc's, Feds, Avery, Boyle and Prust to carry the offensive load as they are either to young (Ani, Steps and Zuc's) or ill equipped to consistently provide enough offense to make up the difference. (Feds, Avery, Boyle and Prust)

They are headed in the right direction, but today, they are not contenders.

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Old
01-19-2011, 04:47 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
I'm telling you what he's worth to the NY Rangers. just an opinion. Can Burke get a better deal? Maybe.... maybe not.

What I'm saying is if Burke and Sather make a deal, you are not going to like the return based on your posts. You can count on it.
And I'm telling you that garbage offers won't get Kaberle. Burke didn't take any last summer so it's not going to change when he can just sign him instead.

Kaberle wants to stay, not sure why that's so hard for you to understand.

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01-19-2011, 04:50 PM
  #195
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Leafs fans are funny.

Listen, if Sather wants Kaberle, he'll just take him and leaf fans will just have to deal with whatever they get. You've seen how he does trades. Remember, he still has Redden and Drury left the deal away, don't piss him off.

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01-19-2011, 04:51 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Wolskii View Post
Im not sure how you confuse Gilroy and Christensen with Valentenko and a 2nd... maybe thats your problem, reading comprehension.
Perhaps you should read the first post in the thread.

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01-19-2011, 04:52 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
Leafs fans are funny.

Listen, if Sather wants Kaberle, he'll just take him and leaf fans will just have to deal with whatever they get. You've seen how he does trades. Remember, he still has Redden and Drury left the deal away, don't piss him off.
Oh yes the mighty Sather. The only thing Slats does well these days is send salary to the minors. What's he got there now 10 million?

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01-19-2011, 04:53 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by DelZottoFutureNorris View Post
lol, you are funny.

Here's how to figure out which one of you is right here...

If the return for a UFA-to-be Kaberle was a top prospect like Kreider, don't you think Burke would've already moved him in a heartbeat? You think he'd still be a leaf if he could've returned a prospect like Kreider? Hell, if that's the price for him now, what was the price for him last season? Kreider + Stepan? At this point you must know you're wrong, but are just being stubborn and refusing to concede the point. I'm sorry, but as a UFA-to-be, the Leafs should be thrilled to get a 2nd and run.
A 2nd round pick in a weak draft for a 50-60 PMD?

By far the dumbest post of the thread.


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Old
01-19-2011, 04:53 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Oh yes the mighty Sather. The only thing Slats does well these days is send salary to the minors. What's he got there now 10 million?
And trade away Roszival.
and Gomez.

contracts that were said to be "untradeable"

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01-19-2011, 04:56 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Oh yes the mighty Sather. The only thing Slats does well these days is send salary to the minors. What's he got there now 10 million?
Im thinking you need to take a step away from this thread for about 20 minutes to take a deep breath.

Neither side will give what the other wants so why get all huffy puffy about it?

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