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Old
01-19-2011, 04:21 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
5. JVR offers more offensive potential while still remaining competent defensively.
I'm glad that JVR is working out in Philly, but what is this particular statement based on, exactly? Even going back to their junior years, Neal has put up superior numbers. Not surprisingly, he's posted better numbers at the pro level as well. What are you basing JVR's "potential" on, other than his draft position?

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01-19-2011, 04:23 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boodangleroo28 View Post
carle zherdev carcillo for neal and niskanen???
Always liked Carbomb, but he's got no place in Dallas. Don't really want Zherdev either, I don't think he'd be a good fit.

Just out of curiosity, since you're dropping forwards on us, what would Scottie Fartsmell cost the Stars?

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01-19-2011, 04:24 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Gladly.

1. He's younger than Neal by a bit.
2. Neal will get a significant raise after next season while JVR's should be moderate.
3. Neal is about a million more than JVR now if you include all of JVR's bonuses.
4. The Flyers need a player that fits JVR's mold more than Neal's.
5. JVR offers more offensive potential while still remaining competent defensively.
6. JVR's speed and creativity compliment Laviolette's system perfectly.
7. JVR has found his niche and is obviously well-liked in Philadelphia and by the organization. (You don't trade something you know works unless necessary.)
The bolded parts are obvious. #6 is up for debate since im not to familiar with Laviolette's system, #5 i think is false and if you would watch Neal more at an NHL level you would agree, and #4 Neal is the all around player you say JVR is. Neal has shown he can score, hit, fight, and be defensively responsible.

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01-19-2011, 04:26 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Sony Eriksson View Post
It sure would be nice to see people stop valuing players possible potential and started looking at tangible, already established evidence in determining the value of a player in a trade.
There really is established evidence for JVR.

He would be racking up a lot more points with playing time and PP time. You can tell.

The only thing with JVR is that he still needs to fill into his frame. You really can already see glimpses of dominant/unstoppable plays from him. With JVR it's really just a matter of time.

In the very near future you'll be talking about the Flyers big 4 PPG threats as Richards, Carter, Giroux, and JVR as opposed to Richards, Carter, Giroux, and Briere.

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01-19-2011, 04:26 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boodangleroo28 View Post
carle zherdev carcillo for neal and niskanen???
Why do you need Neal? You already have your share of LW, don't you?

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01-19-2011, 04:28 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Sony Eriksson View Post
The bolded parts are obvious. #6 is up for debate since im not to familiar with Laviolette's system, #5 i think is false and if you would watch Neal more at an NHL level you would agree, and #4 Neal is the all around player you say JVR is. Neal has shown he can score, hit, fight, and be defensively responsible.
Neal doesn't have the creativity at that size.

Speed and creativity in a big package is a DEADLY threat.

And I know Neal is pretty big too, but he's not the same type of player that JVR is. The word "powerforward" is a loose definition applied to big players who can play physical and get their offense around the net.

You can disagree with my points, but I think if you saw JVR more you'd agree with me.

We've arrived at a crossroads. There's really no reason to get into anymore. We just flat out disagree.

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01-19-2011, 04:29 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
There really is established evidence for JVR.

He would be racking up a lot more points with playing time and PP time. You can tell.

The only thing with JVR is that he still needs to fill into his frame. You really can already see glimpses of dominant/unstoppable plays from him. With JVR it's really just a matter of time.

In the very near future you'll be talking about the Flyers big 4 PPG threats as Richards, Carter, Giroux, and JVR as opposed to Richards, Carter, Giroux, and Briere.
You are still basing you assumptions on hypotheticals.

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01-19-2011, 04:29 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
You made the foolish smart-arsed attempt at the zinger, not I.
Not sure how smart-arsed it is to say Pronger, Timonen, Meszaros, Coburn and arguably Carle are better than anything Dallas has.

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01-19-2011, 04:35 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
I'm glad that JVR is working out in Philly, but what is this particular statement based on, exactly? Even going back to their junior years, Neal has put up superior numbers. Not surprisingly, he's posted better numbers at the pro level as well. What are you basing JVR's "potential" on, other than his draft position?
No, I'm basing it off his offensive creativity and his shot in his frame. JVR's numbers in NCAA don't mean very much seeing as how he was completely alone on that team and pretty much carried them into the NCAA playoffs on his back. Also, comparing Canadian Juniors to the NCAA is a pointless endeavor.

Being a big name at the WJCs isn't so bad either. Look how their WJC numbers compare.

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01-19-2011, 04:35 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
Not sure how smart-arsed it is to say Pronger, Timonen, Meszaros, Coburn and arguably Carle are better than anything Dallas has.
Oy vey! I meant your "hockey isn't a math test" comment. Obviously, you're on song today.

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01-19-2011, 04:37 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
Not sure how smart-arsed it is to say Pronger, Timonen, Meszaros, Coburn and arguably Carle are better than anything Dallas has.
I submit Stephane Robidas's all-around game is better than at least one, if not two of those d-men.

I would agree that head-to-head, Philly's got the more impressive blueline, but to say all of those players listed are better than anything Dallas brings to the table is quite wrong.

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01-19-2011, 04:42 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
That's not a fact. That's an OPINION....yours, to be precise!

Try understanding what the word METRIC means. I already said that your team has the more stacked defensive corps (read: higher paid) than ours, and STILL has a higher GAA than ours despite playing in one of the weaker divisions and unarguably the weaker conference. THAT...is a FACT!
dont confuse parity with strength. dallas point total would be 3rd in the atlantic dueling with the rangers for a playoff spot. while philly and pittsburgh are both considered cup contenders. wherever you rank the atlantic division the pacific division goes under it. your FACTS are ludicous and inaccurate.

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01-19-2011, 04:51 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
dont confuse parity with strength. dallas point total would be 3rd in the atlantic dueling with the rangers for a playoff spot. while philly and pittsburgh are both considered cup contenders. wherever you rank the atlantic division the pacific division goes under it. your FACTS are ludicous and inaccurate.
If you're going to bash the facts others bring to the table, you might want to double-check your own.

Dallas is 11-2-1 vs. the Eastern Conference this year.

"Dueling with the Rangers for a playoff spot?" I doubt it.

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01-19-2011, 04:54 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
If you're going to bash the facts others bring to the table, you might want to double-check your own.

Dallas is 11-2-1 vs. the Eastern Conference this year.

"Dueling with the Rangers for a playoff spot?" I doubt it.
This!

And Philly is what 4-7 against the WC?

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01-19-2011, 04:58 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
dont confuse parity with strength.
Why not? The Pacific teams are equally strong and each team has an equal chance of making the playoffs as we speak. Same can't be said of NJ and NYI in the Atlantic.

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dallas point total would be 3rd in the atlantic dueling with the rangers for a playoff spot.
Pens- 62 points in 47 games
Stars- 61 points in 46 games
Rangers- 55 points in 47 games

Dueling with the Rangers or the Pens? Who's looking ludicrous now?

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while philly and pittsburgh are both considered cup contenders. wherever you rank the atlantic division the pacific division goes under it.
Your division has produced exactly the same number of cup winners post-lockout as ours. ONE! Moreover, Sharks have been cup contenders for a while now.

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01-19-2011, 04:58 PM
  #66
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Oy vey! I meant your "hockey isn't a math test" comment. Obviously, you're on song today.

I say the Flyers have the better dman, are better defensively and are the better team. Now you can go searching for metric data to completely destroy this statement while I'm going to actually watch the games.

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01-19-2011, 04:59 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
I say the Flyers have the better dman, are better defensively and are the better team. Now you can go searching for metric data to completely destroy this statement while I'm going to actually watch the games.
You are right! Stats lie and personal observation is the deciding factor.

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01-19-2011, 05:00 PM
  #68
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Your division has produced exactly the same number of cup winners post-lockout as ours. ONE! Moreover, Sharks have been cup contenders for a while now.
That's just hilarious.
Are you really evaluating the strenght of teams right now by comparing cup wins in the past?

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01-19-2011, 05:02 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
If you're going to bash the facts others bring to the table, you might want to double-check your own.

Dallas is 11-2-1 vs. the Eastern Conference this year.

"Dueling with the Rangers for a playoff spot?" I doubt it.
The drama of which conference is better doesn't need to be brought it.

I consider it pretty much a statistical lie. The conferences are inherently different in terms of competition. You really can't argue that one is better than the other in terms of wins and losses.

Truth be told, a lot of that overinflated nonsense is because Eastern Conference teams aren't used to the painstaking traveling that Western Conference teams are. If you threw the top Eastern teams into the Western Conference, a lot of them would go through an adjustment period but it would eventually stabilize.

While assuming that the Stars would be at the Rangers' level is kind of pointless, it is equally pointless to assume that the Stars would be at the same level of the Flyers and Penguins if they played in the East.

Basically I consider all drama about the West being worse than the East just the ranting on madmen on a binge to prove that the West is better than the East whether it be due to some inferiority complex or the desperate endeavor for self-affirmation.

The Flyers have a better offense and a better defense than the Stars. That is the only fact involved.

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01-19-2011, 05:06 PM
  #70
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Can't we all just agree that Dallas and Philly are destined to meet in the finals, and pretend the OP's proposal was never made?

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01-19-2011, 05:09 PM
  #71
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Can't we all just agree that Dallas and Philly are destined to meet in the finals, and pretend the OP's proposal was never made?
I'll toast to that. Any deal involving the Flyers will not involve:

Pronger, Timonen, Meszaros, Coburn, O'Donnell, (Carle)

Richards, Carter, Briere, Giroux, vanRiemsdyk, Hartnell, Leino, Nodl, Betts, Powe

Bobrovsky

That leaves: Walker, Carcillo, Shelley, Leighton, Boucher, Bartulis, (Carle)

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01-19-2011, 05:21 PM
  #72
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James Neal would be an Ideal fit in Philly in my opinion. What would it take to get him there? We all know that Dallas cannot afford to take on any big salaries so I was thinking Zherdev and Bartulis for Neal...Thoughts?
Well I do not see Dallas moving Neal. But for fun I would give you Bartulis, Wellwood, Carcillo and our 2011 1st round pick. Hell if you want Zherdev then replace him with one of the three players listed.

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01-19-2011, 05:25 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
Are you really evaluating the strenght of teams right now by comparing cup wins in the past?
I merely pointed out that there were just as many champions in the Atlantic and Pacific divisions post-lockout, and both divisions have had more or less, their share of at least two contenders (as per experts) in the same time-frame. Phi and Pit for you this year, SJ and L.A. (that's what experts picked) for us this year.

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That's just hilarious.
No, what is hilarious is seeing you make a half-arsed decision based on a fragment of a conversation between two people which obviously didn't involve you in the first place, and fail in your attempt at getting back at me for pointing out your faux-pas earlier.

Cheers, mate!

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01-19-2011, 05:30 PM
  #74
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I'll toast to that. Any deal involving the Flyers will not involve:

Pronger, Timonen, Meszaros, Coburn, O'Donnell, (Carle)

Richards, Carter, Briere, Giroux, vanRiemsdyk, Hartnell, Leino, Nodl, Betts, Powe

Bobrovsky

That leaves: Walker, Carcillo, Shelley, Leighton, Boucher, Bartulis, (Carle)
i doubt nodl and powe would be untouchable if the right offer came around.

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01-19-2011, 05:45 PM
  #75
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Why not? The Pacific teams are equally strong and each team has an equal chance of making the playoffs as we speak. Same can't be said of NJ and NYI in the Atlantic.
making the playoffs and winning in the playoffs are different animals. the situation in the pacific would be much more comparable to the southeast. parity is about the level of compeition and ill wage my 2 teams that wont win the cup versus your 5


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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
Pens- 62 points in 47 games
Stars- 61 points in 46 games
Rangers- 55 points in 47 games

Dueling with the Rangers or the Pens? Who's looking ludicrous now?
the rangers do it on gaborik and goaltending which is enough to win against weaker teams and will get them to the playoffs but wont prevail against a truly deep team. dallas in is that category.

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Your division has produced exactly the same number of cup winners post-lockout as ours. ONE! Moreover, Sharks have been cup contenders for a while now.
last year he flyers lost the cup and the year before that pittsburgh won it after losing it previously. 3 years 2 teams 1 division. and most people write off the sharks as soon as the playoffs start.

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