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Washington Capitals @ Philadelphia Flyers (01.18.2011, 7pm)

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Old
01-19-2011, 01:21 PM
  #651
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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Originally Posted by Appreci8 View Post
Fehr and Semin are more inclined to disappear when the going gets tough, rather than rise above it.

'Pronger's not the defensive force he was several years ago,' did you not watch the playoffs last year? I'm sorry but when your averaging over 29 minutes per game in the playoffs and are not considered a defensive force...
Have you not watched Pronger this year? He's certainly not the defensive force of year's past.

And has been said, with regard to Philly's goaltending last season, they got the three worst offensive teams in the playoffs before the finals.

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01-19-2011, 01:31 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Have you not watched Pronger this year? He's certainly not the defensive force of year's past.

And has been said, with regard to Philly's goaltending last season, they got the three worst offensive teams in the playoffs before the finals.
Pronger has still been Philly's best Dman this year, when healthy. He plays in all situations and is one of the major reason for the recent Flyers PP woes.

That still doesn't take away from what he did in the playoffs. He literally and figuratively carried the Flyers to the Cup Finals. I can guarantee without him they don't even make the ECF.

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01-19-2011, 01:40 PM
  #653
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I don't get the Knuble hate and calling for him to be sent down to the third line. Especially with all the lack of finishers comments happening simultaneously.

Knuble has been the only Capital who has put his name on the score sheet with any sort of regularity over the last several weeks. He scored our first goal last night. Even after that abysmal start to the season where he couldn't buy a goal, he's tied for third in goals on the team and is sixth in points (ahead of Eric Fehr in both categories).

With the team being goal starved as of late, why would we want to move the only guy putting the puck into the net into a bottom 6 role? It just doesn't make sense.

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01-19-2011, 01:48 PM
  #654
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Spitball line idea

Laich MJ Ovechkin
Chimera Nick Knuble

Wow our RW depth has taken a hit. Flash, gone. Semin IR. Fehr presumably the same. Bradley, MIA. Under the presumption that Flash did get time at RW, we have 3-4 RW's out of the lineup.

Knuble stays a top line RW regardless of his scoring prowess. And I think Ovi needs to be moved to RW to help fill the gap. Lord knows it can't really hurt his game, scoring using his glove and all to get through the day at LW.

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01-19-2011, 01:48 PM
  #655
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It's exhausting listening to Boudreau say the right things and watching his team do the exact opposite.

Red flag if ever there was one.

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01-19-2011, 01:53 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by Appreci8 View Post
Pronger has still been Philly's best Dman this year, when healthy. He plays in all situations and is one of the major reason for the recent Flyers PP woes.

That still doesn't take away from what he did in the playoffs. He literally and figuratively carried the Flyers to the Cup Finals. I can guarantee without him they don't even make the ECF.
Timonen's been better, IMO.

And completely disagree about Pronger carrying them to the Finals last year. If anyone carried the Flyers, it was Briere.

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01-19-2011, 02:02 PM
  #657
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Must have been a miracle that the Flyers lucked their way past the Habs in 5 games with that dead weight Pronger out there for 27 minutes a game when the Caps couldn't do it with the Norris runner-up.

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01-19-2011, 02:14 PM
  #658
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even a few weeks after 24/7 the suckage continues but thats nothing compared what we see in the playoffs year for year.

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01-19-2011, 02:19 PM
  #659
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Two themes that are being noted repeatedly on this board regarding the play of the Caps is (1) they aren't playing a full 60 minutes - usually it is said they are playing only 20 minutes; and (2) they aren't playing well because they are adjusting to the more defense-first approach. I have observations about this using the Skins and Hanlon as comparisons.

First, throughout the Skins season, whenever they lost, particularly to mediocre teams, the Skins players afterwards would invariably say that "we are better than [blank] team" or "we play down to our competition" even though blank team often had a better or similar record, or "we let down for a few minutes and that cost us the game." Last season with the Caps I recall hearing a great many times (like this season) that the Caps needed to play the full 60 minutes for a change (although last season it was usually the Caps only playing a full 40 minutes and this season it is the Caps only playing a full 20 minutes). Someone noted earlier on this thread that the Flyers should be upset for only playing 40 minutes, and I think most people thought he was just being sarcastic, but really on CSN Joe B and Locker thought the Flyers were tired and sluggish in the third period (i.e., played 40 minutes rather than 60 minutes), and the Flyers are much like last season's Caps in performance, and so when they don't play a full 60 minutes, they still seem to play a full 40 minute, rather than just 20 minutes. The whole point here is that, given last year's Caps performance, or unusual periods like the third period against Boston in December when the Caps had 26 shots, that maybe some people are expecting too much from the Caps as their lineup currently is, and when they are outmanned by this or that team for more than half the game, they assume the Caps simply aren't showing up, without any consideration that maybe the other team is outclassing the Caps. I am not particularly high on BB, although my issue with him is more how he coaches the team in the playoffs, so I am not saying this as support for BB, but maybe the Caps are "who they are" under this current defense-first approach.

Which leads me to the second issue - the assumption that the Caps as currently configured will adjust eventually to this defense-first approach and blossom offensively. Remember during the Skins season when media and fans alike kept criticizing Shanahan & Co. because they didn't think the Skins defensive personnel were suited for the change from the 4-3 to the 3-4. Or a number of years ago that BB was so much more successful than Hanlon because Hanlon was trying to force a bunch of young skill players to rein in their preference for run and gun and play defensive-minded, and BB was successful because he let the thoroughbreds run and gun at will. Is the problem and lowered offensive and overall performance of the Caps now because BB is essentially attempting to do what Hanlon attempted to do a number of years ago, namely forcing a handful of run 'n gun forwards to still rack up the points in a different defense-first system, and that the Caps forwards as currently structured may not suited for this system - or just not be anywhere near as good as they were last year under the run 'n gun system?

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01-19-2011, 02:33 PM
  #660
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Originally Posted by mind_the_gap View Post
Really? Hannan stinks imo
I disagree with you in regards to Hannan.

But if for nothing else, think of Hannan's value to the Capitals in just one area, if Hannan was not currently on the Capitals, in all liklihood Tyler Sloan would be in the line up.


Last edited by BiPolar Caps: 03-21-2011 at 11:37 AM.
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01-19-2011, 02:41 PM
  #661
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I disagree with you in regards to Hannan.

But if for nothing else, think of Hannan's value to the Capitals in just one area, if Hannan was not currently on the Capitals, in all liklihood Tyler Sloan would be in the line up.
I like Hannan and the consistency he's brought to our backend. That being said I disagree with GMGM that he 'completes our defense.'

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01-19-2011, 03:05 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Spitball line idea

Laich MJ Ovechkin
Chimera Nick Knuble.
havent we see both of these? last night i saw 25-19-22 in the 3rd period. i saw 90 and 8 together as well. i recall laich's goal v ottawa being 8-90-21.

last night, if i remember correctly, laich had gotten himself dropped to playing with steckel and gordo.

my take now is that boudreau is moving ovechkin around to try and get one of his linemates going, knowing that ovechkin won't be getting going. same possibly with backstrom.

this much i know the line combinations change in the bottom of the lineup any game were king is dressed and the team is trailing in the 3rd period. bruce shortens the bench

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01-19-2011, 03:08 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Appreci8 View Post
I like Hannan and the consistency he's brought to our backend. That being said I disagree with GMGM that he 'completes our defense.'
Hannan was a great pick-up and has fit better than I'd anticipated into Boudreau's system. I'd much rather have him back than Tom Poti.

The Caps D is not what's failing them so I really don't understand the criticism.

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01-19-2011, 03:14 PM
  #664
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Must have been a miracle that the Flyers lucked their way past the Habs in 5 games with that dead weight Pronger out there for 27 minutes a game when the Caps couldn't do it with the Norris runner-up.
Funny how every time the debate comes up about the great Pronger, his awful performance in the Finals gets ignored every time. The juggernaut Flyers defense allowed 25 goals in 6 games, including 6 goals in one game and 7 in another. Pronger was a major reason the Flyers didn't win the Cup, especially with his disaster of a Game 5 where he was on the ice for six of the seven Chicago goals.

Pronger, shmonger. I agree that Timonen has been much better this season for them than he has.

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01-19-2011, 03:23 PM
  #665
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With Poti at full health, I would say our defense is complete. As it is, we may have to break up Alzner and Carlson to spread the mobility around our pairs a bit more. Poti can be the "mobile" guy even if he is slow because he can get things done offensively. As we are built now, I fear Schultz has to play with Green. I for one wouldnt mind Alzner and Carlson being broken up for a period. It wont shatter their confidence. They aren't babies. 27:52 | 55:74 | 4:23

As it is, I think Hannan is being wasted as our 3rd pairing guy. He is a $4M dollar man and probably our best DDman. But this year is about grooming our backend and that includes Schultz. I just dont want Bruce to change everything up in game 3 going to pairings he was hesitant to try. If we even make the playoffs, injuries will happen. Book it. Why wait until then to prepare.

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01-19-2011, 03:23 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by Foy View Post
The Dahlen/Kono/Halpern line was a thing of beauty. Halpern stands in the slot while Dahlen and Kono dig in the corners for 50 seconds trying to get him the puck for a quick shot. The other team's top line gets worn out from mucking for an entire shift. The prototypical 3rd line.
Man those 3 were a joy to watch....I remember that line getting the starting nod and on the first shift they would just control the puck in the offensive zone for a good minute to start the game. It was such a good momentum setter...

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01-19-2011, 05:41 PM
  #667
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Funny how every time the debate comes up about the great Pronger, his awful performance in the Finals gets ignored every time. The juggernaut Flyers defense allowed 25 goals in 6 games, including 6 goals in one game and 7 in another. Pronger was a major reason the Flyers didn't win the Cup, especially with his disaster of a Game 5 where he was on the ice for six of the seven Chicago goals.

Pronger, shmonger. I agree that Timonen has been much better this season for them than he has.
You've confused Pronger with Leighton and the 3rd pairing.

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01-19-2011, 06:05 PM
  #668
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You've confused Pronger with Leighton and the 3rd pairing.
No, not really. He was a -5 in Game Five and was in the penalty box for another Hawk goal. He was terrible that game.

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01-19-2011, 06:11 PM
  #669
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No, not really. He was a -5 in Game Five and was in the penalty box for another Hawk goal. He was terrible that game.
He wasn't the only Flyer to have that and without him, there isn't even a visit to the Finals.

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01-19-2011, 06:18 PM
  #670
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No, not really. He was a -5 in Game Five and was in the penalty box for another Hawk goal. He was terrible that game.
Our goalie was abysmal, and when that happens no amount of defense will help. For instance, Timonen did everything right on Kane's winning goal, and Leighton let in a softie. Without him I doubt the Flyers make the finals. They definitely don't get 3 shutouts against MTL; the only game they won was the game where he was sick.

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01-19-2011, 06:33 PM
  #671
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
It's exhausting listening to Boudreau say the right things and watching his team do the exact opposite.

Red flag if ever there was one.
At least both parties are consistent.

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