HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Fantasy Hockey Talk > All Time Draft
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
All Time Draft Fantasy league where players of the past and present meet.

The 2011 ATD-B Beer League Draft

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-19-2011, 09:42 AM
  #76
VanIslander
17/07/2014 ATD RIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,010
vCash: 500
Wembley selects point Rod Kennedy, a three-time Stanley Cup champion at the point position. He won the Stanley Cup in January 1906 with Ottawa then again in March on the Montreal Wanderers squad. He won the cup again the following March and then in 1908 he played against the Wanderers as a starter in the first all-star game in hockey history, the Hod Stuart Memorial Benefit Game in 1908, Kennedy scoring the first goal for the all-star team in what turned out to be a 10-7 losing effort against the Wanderers. He scored 4 more goals against the Wanderers in a Stanley Cup challenge series loss for the Victorias on March 10, 1908. I wish to collect more info on this intriguing career!

VanIslander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 09:46 AM
  #77
VanIslander
17/07/2014 ATD RIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,010
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
And Carpenter too! 1911, 1912, 1913 first team all-star in lesser leagues. Won the cup once, played for it another time. 5 full seasons at the top levels, would have been seven if not for WW1. Never a PCHA all-star but played for the PCHA all-star team against the NHA stars in 1916.
I didn't mention he was traded for Goldie Prodgers in 1919 and traded two years later for Cully Wilson. Getting traded for an all-time great makes one pay attention; doing it twice put him on my radar.

I would love some details on those all-star selections to put in his bio, if you could drum up whatever you've got lying around.

VanIslander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 09:50 AM
  #78
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,877
vCash: 500
Kennedy's more of what you'd expect to see around here - a question mark. Played two full seasons at the top level (ECAHA) and part of another. Apparently an IPAHU all-star in 1910. Excluding junior, played in just six seasons in total. You're right that he is intriguing. It would be good to see more on him. But he pales in comparison to your last two.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 09:52 AM
  #79
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustOneOfTheGuys View Post
I didn't mention he was traded for Goldie Prodgers in 1919 and traded two years later for Cully Wilson. Getting traded for an all-time great makes one pay attention; doing it twice put him on my radar.

I would love some details on those all-star selections to put in his bio, if you could drum up whatever you've got lying around.
Here are some tidbits from sihr:

Quote:
Ed Carpenter, who joined the fledgling NHL in it's second season after serving in the Great War, died on April 30, 1963.

Although he was born in the USA, he moved to Lachute, Quebec at a young age, and then on to Port Arthur, Ontario in 1909. It is there that he began playing organized hockey. He was on the Stanley Cup winning Seattle Metropolitans team with Jim Riley in 1917, which he jumped his contract with the Toronto Blueshirts to join. He then entered the military for two years. After his service, he returned to the NHL and played one season with the Quebec Bulldogs and another with the Hamilton Tigers before leaving the game as a player.

He later returned to Port Arthur and coached the Bearcats to the Allan Cup. In 1944 he moved to Winnipeg, and worked for Canadian National Railway for 43 years.
Quote:
Signed as a free agent by Toronto (NHA), December 9, 1914 - Jumped contract with Toronto (NHA) and signed with Seattle (PCHA), November 12, 1915

Signed as a free agent by Montreal Canadiens, December 15, 1919 - Traded to Quebec by Canadiens for Goldie Prodgers, December 21, 1919

Transferred to Hamilton after Quebec franchise relocated, November 2, 1920

Traded to Toronto by Hamilton for Cully Wilson, November 9, 1921

1st All-Star Team 1910-11 (CP); 1911-12 (CP) NOHL); 1912-13 (MPHA)

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 10:05 AM
  #80
VanIslander
17/07/2014 ATD RIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,010
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I'd like to think that, as a group, after 1600+ picks, we've gotten to the bottom of who all the best players in history were, and in a reasonable order, too. These two picks turned that line of thinking upside down for me. As the adage goes, the more you know, the more you don't know.
One thing the past has taught me is: No matter how confident you are that you know something well, chances are you'll find something out in the future that you didn't know and requires a change in belief. Some people do this repeatedly with no loss of confidence, as if forgetting that they didn't once know what they now know, and that they were just as confident before of what they previously believed as they are with what they believe now. (As a philosophy major we studied this as one of the limits of any epistemology seeking a foundation in certainty.)

I have seen a continuous progress/promotion of MLD and lower level picks to higher draft positions. It's an ongoing progress. More research will be done and more insights and reflections will be made. The longer we do this, the more we dig and the more of us that dig, the more and better we'll find. That's what I expect. Of THAT I am pretty confident.

VanIslander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 10:22 AM
  #81
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustOneOfTheGuys View Post
One thing the past has taught me is: No matter how confident you are that you know something well, chances are you'll find something out in the future that you didn't know and requires a change in belief. Some people do this repeatedly with no loss of confidence, as if forgetting that they didn't once know what they now know, and that they were just as confident before of what they previously believed as they are with what they believe now. (As a philosophy major we studied this as one of the limits of any epistemology seeking a foundation in certainty.)

I have seen a continuous progress/promotion of MLD and lower level picks to higher draft positions. It's an ongoing progress. More research will be done and more insights and reflections will be made. The longer we do this, the more we dig and the more of us that dig, the more and better we'll find. That's what I expect. Of THAT I am pretty confident.
Oh yeah, I was always confident of that... I just thought we had gotten there.

Or that at least the "curve" was done being so steep and had started to level off.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 11:45 AM
  #82
BillyShoe1721
Terriers
 
BillyShoe1721's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,692
vCash: 8400
Send a message via AIM to BillyShoe1721
The China Sharks select D Konnie Johannesson



Member of 1920 Canadian Gold Medal Olympic team

Quote:
"He is a born defenseman and is almost unbeatable,
his ability at blocking and checking being equalled only by his quick brain."
"a dangerous rusher, a gifted stick-handler, and packs a terrific shot"

Konrad "Konnie" Johannesson was a part of the gold medal winning Winnipeg Falcons team in 1920 Olympic games in Antwerp. Standing at 5' 11", he was described as "One of the giants of the team". He was clearly a very good skater as well: "The defender Johanneson became somewhat of a favorite to the public due to his marvelous skating technique."

Nothing suggests that Johannesson was a physical player, but Konnie wasn't a player who could be physically intimidated either:

"Canadian defender Johanneson at one time was pushed headlong into the barrier board, so that it was cracked. However, he happily continued to play on, as if nothing had happened."

In the moral final game played between Canada and USA, Konnie scored a decisive goal: "With a swing shot, at the same time as he fell, he succeeded in scoring - 2-0."
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=674621&page=10

BillyShoe1721 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 11:58 AM
  #83
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,877
vCash: 500
Melville selects Rob Brown, RW



Yes, we all know Brown had an attitude problem and was a poor defensive player, and a lot of his offensive success can be attributed to Mario Lemieux - that's why he's not drafted yet! But now for the good - and there is some good:

- Brown was not the first player to cash in on a superstar or generational talent linemate. He won't be the last. His 115-point season in 1989 is easily the best total put up by any undrafted player. That was done in just 69 games, for a PPG average of 1.67, by a country mile the best PPG average posted by any player available and most most players in NHL history. Only Gretzky, Lemieux, Malone, Denneny, Lalonde, Noble, Cowley, Esposito, Yzerman, Nicholls, Broadbent, Oates, Kurri, Bossy, Jagr, Nighbor, Orr, Trottier, LaFontaine, Coffey, Stastny, Ratelle, Cain, Lafleur, and Maruk have ever played more than half a season and averaged higher. that's 25 players.
- For every Rob Brown who owes his big year to a superstar player, there are five Blair MacDonald/Jan Hrdina/German Titov/Warren Young/Ryan Malone types who clearly benefitted from a star linemate but didn't take advantage to the degree Brown did.
- If you look solely at ESP in 1989 and look at it as an average per 60 minutes of ES time, Brown's 4.47 mark is not far off from Lemieux's 4.92. Lemieux picked up 102 points on an estimated 120 ESG that were scored when he was on the ice (85%). Brown was in on 68 of 87 (78%). As expected, not many goals were going in without Lemieux's stick having something to do with it; the same thing can be said for Rob Brown in this season, to almost the same degree.
- Brown still had decent seasons other than this one: 44 points in 51 games in 1988, 80 in 80 in 1990, 58 in 69 in 1991 (had a higher PPG average in HFD than in PIT!) and 47 in 67 in 1992.
- Brown still finished his career with 438 points in 543 games even though over half of it was spent without Lemieux and some was deep into the dead puck era.
- Although he had a five-year sabattical from the NHL, Brown was a very productive IHL player during this time. He was probably the best player outside of the NHL over this period (which certainly doesn't mean as much as it would in the O6, when jobs were very limited). This speaks to his offensive abilities but also to his deficiencies as a player. the IHL was likely the world's 2nd-best league at the time, and he was its best player. This means that on merit he probably should have had at least a 2nd line spot with a weak NHL team somewhere. It's interesting that he didn't.
- Brown was a chippy, yappy, whiny agitating presence so it's possible to see him playing a short-term role on any line in the AAA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Scouting Report 1990-91
Lucky for Brown, he doesn't have to make the NHL on skating ability - if he did, he wouldn't make the AHL... what makes Brown an NHLer is his ability to get into scoring position... his scorer's sense always puts him where the openings and the puck are...exceptionally accurate when he fires... passes the puck well... his hands and hockey sense are the keys... his skating is the weakest of his skills... works at his defense, but this is an area where his skating deficiencies show... willingly plays a physical game. Hits when he can and will certainly take hits to make plays... Brown's reputation precedes him... the opposition can't stand him because he's cocky, arrogant and a loudmouth on the ice. His agitation serves to get the opposition off their game, and there's nothinghe likes more than to score after someone's taken a shot at him... work ethic is far from good...


Last edited by seventieslord: 01-23-2011 at 02:27 AM.
seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 12:15 PM
  #84
Hedberg
MLD Glue Guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,186
vCash: 500
D Gord Kluzak



Why:
Legends of Hockey
Quote:
Defenceman Gord Kluzak was a punishing hitter who could also play offense. His impact when healthy was considerable and he would have surely been a star for a number years had he stayed healthy. During the 1981-82 season he was a rock on Team Canada's defense corps when it won the country's first ever gold medal at the World Junior Championships. Kluzak was placed on the tournament all-star team and named the top defenceman at the championships. Following the 1981-82 junior season he was voted on to the WHL second all-star team. Kluzak returned to the Boston line-up in 1985-86 and scored 39 points while playing a strong physical game. His knee woes returned and forced him to sit out the 1986-87 season. The 1987-88 season was Kluzak's last full year as a pro. In many ways it was his most satisfying as Kluzak scored 12 points in 23 games to help the team reached the Stanley Cup final. He and rookie Glen Wesley took much of the burden off Ray Bourque that kept the talented veteran fresh throughout the playoffs. Along the way, Boston defeated the Montreal Canadiens for only their third series win versus the Habs in 22 tries.
HFBoards Thread "How good of a d-pair was Bourque and Kluzak?"
Quote:
They were both big time talents. Boruque was Bourque, but Kluzak was something special to. He had this long graceful stride, could really shoot it, and played well in the defensive end. In terms of present day players, I would compare him to Florida's defenseman Jay Boumeister but a better defensive player.
Quote:
This is the singular biggest reason the Bruins finally beat the Canadiens in a playoff series.
I got to talk to Bobby Smith during All-Stars weekend in Boston in 1996 during the skate at Matthews (Boston Arena) and asked him what it was like to dominate the Bruins for four straight years of opening-round playoffs and then lose to them in 88? His answer was "You have to remember, Kluzak played so well for them in that series."

Bourque w/ Kluzak were unsolveable for the Canadiens because Kluzak, for a rangy, 6-foot-4 player, was incredibly nimble and quick on his skates. He danced with the puck off the left point and made it impossible for the Habs to just key on Bourque and then lie down in front of big No. 6 if the puck slid his way. They had no answer and couldn't cope with the double threat.
Why he shouldn't be selected:
- Chronic knee problems limited him to 299 games

Hedberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 12:19 PM
  #85
Hedberg
MLD Glue Guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,186
vCash: 500
C Jacques Richard



Why:
- 7th in goals, 1981
- 10th in points 1981
- Legends of Hockey
Quote:
As a junior phenomenon with the Quebec Ramparts of the QMJHL, Jacques Richard was blessed with an overabundance of natural talent and a set of wheels fit for the Indianapolis 500. His teammate with the Ramparts was Guy Lafleur and some observers of the day speculated that Richard might prove to be the brighter light of the two at the NHL level.

But before testing the big-league waters, the two all-stars pooled their resources to bring the Memorial Cup to Quebec City in 1971. By the following season, Richard was labeled a "can't miss" prospect on the strength of netting 71 goals and 89 assists in only 61 games.

He was selected 2nd overall by the Atlanta Flames in the 1972 Amateur Draft. He joined the club straightway and was touted across the state as the next "Richard" as in "The Rocket" or "The Pocket Rocket." Needless to say, when held up against such high standards, Richard proved to be a disappointment.

Instead, Richard signed as a free agent with the Quebec Nordiques, the original domain of his junior triumphs. He took some time to regain his confidence, but when he did, in 1980-81, he exploded for 52 goals and 51 assists.

The real Jacques Richard appeared to have finally arrived in the NHL. But his success was short-lived. His off-ice behaviour continued to take its toll on Richard the athlete. His numbers fell into decline the following season, and by 1983, he was washed up.
Why he shouldn't be selected:
Legends of Hockey:
Quote:
Once he got a taste of the NHL's high life, he began to consume higher levels of alcohol, gamble to excess and, later, consume cocaine. He had a very likeable personality, but after three less-than-stellar seasons, the Flames unloaded him to the Sabres.

The real Jacques Richard appeared to have finally arrived in the NHL. But his success was short-lived. His off-ice behaviour continued to take its toll on Richard the athlete. His numbers fell into decline the following season, and by 1983, he was washed up.

Hedberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 12:30 PM
  #86
BillyShoe1721
Terriers
 
BillyShoe1721's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,692
vCash: 8400
Send a message via AIM to BillyShoe1721
C Art Jones



6x Leading Scorer WHL
3x Lester Patrick Cup Champion
2x WHL MVP
Holds WHL record for most points in a season

BillyShoe1721 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 12:39 PM
  #87
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,877
vCash: 500
Melville selects Jacques Richard, LW/RW



VI mentioned "personal demons" in the original post and Jacques Richard is the poster child for personal demons wrecking a promising career:

Quote:
Originally Posted by loh.net
As a junior phenomenon with the Quebec Ramparts of the QMJHL, Jacques Richard was blessed with an overabundance of natural talent and a set of wheels fit for the Indianapolis 500. His teammate with the Ramparts was Guy Lafleur and some observers of the day speculated that Richard might prove to be the brighter light of the two at the NHL level.

But before testing the big-league waters, the two all-stars pooled their resources to bring the Memorial Cup to Quebec City in 1971. By the following season, Richard was labeled a "can't miss" prospect on the strength of netting 71 goals and 89 assists in only 61 games.

He was selected 2nd overall by the Atlanta Flames in the 1972 Amateur Draft. He joined the club straightway and was touted across the state as the next "Richard" as in "The Rocket" or "The Pocket Rocket." Needless to say, when held up against such high standards, Richard proved to be a disappointment.

Once he got a taste of the NHL's high life, he began to consume higher levels of alcohol, gamble to excess and, later, consume cocaine. He had a very likeable personality, but after three less-than-stellar seasons, the Flames unloaded him to the Sabres.

On the ice, he was used very sparingly. As a result, his confidence collapsed as he lived in fear of making mistakes. After 21 games with the Sabres, he was dispatched to play for the Hershey Bears of the AHL. In 1978, he put in one full campaign back in Buffalo. But at season's end the club decided not to offer him a contract.

Instead, Richard signed as a free agent with the Quebec Nordiques, the original domain of his junior triumphs. He took some time to regain his confidence, but when he did, in 1980-81, he exploded for 52 goals and 51 assists.

The real Jacques Richard appeared to have finally arrived in the NHL. But his success was short-lived. His off-ice behaviour continued to take its toll on Richard the athlete. His numbers fell into decline the following season, and by 1983, he was washed up.
Richard's 1981 season, in which he was 11th in the NHL in points with 103, and 6th in goals with 52, is the next-highest scoring season by an unselected player with Rob Brown gone. Considering Richard didn't have Lemieux as a linemate, it could be argued that this was a more impressive season, too.

What a perfect example of a 9-5=4 player. He can feasibly fill in for a scoring line LW or RW in the MLD or AAA draft short-term. He's not the best overall winger remaining, that's for sure, but he arguably has the most upside. If he was a center, I'd say NO WAY, there are too many good guys left even if they don't have that immense potential locked within them. But as a scoring winger, he's an easy choice right now.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 12:41 PM
  #88
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
C Jacques Richard



Why:
- 7th in goals, 1981
- 10th in points 1981
- Legends of Hockey


Why he shouldn't be selected:
Legends of Hockey:
WTF???? scooped in the Beer league? Gimme a break.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 12:57 PM
  #89
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,877
vCash: 500
Melville selects Alexander Sidelnikov, G



Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord last year
- A second team Russian League All-Star in 1973, Sidelnikov was usually called upon to be Tretiak's backup in international competitions. He was the backup in the two Summit Series, the 1976 Olympics, a super series, and four World Championships. He has an international record of 14-1 in the games that would be considered major, with a 2.07 GAA, contributing to multiple gold medals in the process. Chidlovski's site says: "Alexander Sidelnikov was one of the top Soviet elite goalies of the 1970s. Like many other Soviet goalies of that time, he was destined to be overshadowed by a sensational career performance of legendary Vladislav Tretiak. On the national team level, Sidelnikov served as Tretiak's back-up from 1972 to 1977...Throughout his career, Sidelnikov was known for his good conditioning, quick reflexes, fast decision making and good anticipation of the opponent's moves. After the '76 Winter Olympics, Sidelnikov was inducted into the Russian Hall of Fame."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Pelletier
In the 1972 Summit Series Alexander Sidelnikov had the loneliest job of all Soviet players. He, along with Viktor Zinger, was the backup netminder and never had a chance to play in the series as he played behind the great Vladislav Tretiak.

"Although I didn't play in the series, it helped me a great deal. I played center in junior and when I became a goaltender, I used to move out of the net a lot, trying to intercept passes. Our coaches wanted me to stay within the crease. After the series they let me play my own style. We had seen the best goaltenders in the world and each one of them had his own style," he said on the back of a 1991 hockey card put out by Future Trends Enterprises.

Throughout much of his career Alexander Sidelnikov rarely was able to play for the national team in international competition. He may have been the second best goalie in Russia during the 1970s, but he was nowhere near as good as the number one guy - Tretiak. Then again, there were very few goalies in North America who had Tretiak's abilities.

Sidelnikov, who played for Krylia Sovetov when not backing up on the national team, would only get "gimme games" in such tournaments like the World Championships. In other words, the mighty Soviets would give Tretiak a break only if they were playing a truly weak opponent - second class hockey nations such as Poland or East and West Germany.

One of the most famous games in which Sidelnikov played as during the World Championship in 1976. Team USSR lost its opening game to Poland 6-4, with Sidelnikov on the losing end of the match. Just a couple years back the Soviets destroyed Poland 20-0, but this defeat created quite the stir among hockey fans and the Soviet powers-that-be.

Of course, everybody blamed Sidelnikov. However he was the easy scapegoat in this case.

Perhaps the great Valery Kharlamov said it best when he said: "Sidelnikov? What the hell does he have to do with that? We should win games like this even if we have a snow shovel for a goalie"
Why select him:
- Definitely the 2nd-best Soviet goalie of the 1970s. We've selected approximately the best 20 North American goalies of this period already. We think the 2nd-best soviet defenseman and 2nd-best soviet forward are much better than the 20th-best North american defensemen and forwards; why such a difference with goaltenders?

Why not:
- Not that much big-game experience, though the Soviet league was arguably the world's 2nd-best league
- Not much known about his play
- Tretiak clearly outperformed him

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 06:48 PM
  #90
VanIslander
17/07/2014 ATD RIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,010
vCash: 500
Viktor Kozlov



* 6'4, 232 lbs.
* 537 points over 897 NHL games
* 4th in NHL assists in 1999-00, 7th in Plus/Minus 2007-08
* played in the 2000 NHL All-Star Game
* 9 points in 6 games in 1998 World Championships
* 5 points in 8 games in the 2006 Olympics
* played in 5 world championships, two Olympics and a World Cup

Quote:
ASSETS: Has great vision on the ice, imposing size and imagination with the puck. Can play all three forward positions. Is outstanding in the shootout.

FLAWS: Has fought the inconsistency bug throughout his time in the NHL, which explains his constant moving from team to team. Doesn't play a physical game.

VanIslander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 07:01 PM
  #91
VanIslander
17/07/2014 ATD RIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,010
vCash: 500
Mariusz Czerkawski



* 435 points over 745 NHL games
* played in the 2000 NHL All-Star Game
* 7th and 8th in NHL shots in 1999-00 and 2000-01
* 2nd in NHL powerplay goals in 1999-00

Quote:
Czerkawski made his NHL debuts in 1993–94 with the Bruins, playing in 4 games, a long enough stint to collect two goals and an assist and introduce himself as a promising youngster. The next season, he played 47 games with Boston, collecting 12 goals and 14 assists in the shortened season.

In 1996, Czerkawski was traded to the Edmonton Oilers. He played about a season and a half there before another trade sent him to the New York Islanders. He felt home there and his numbers consequently improved; he had two seasons of 30 goals or more. He however fell from the highest to the lowest when he was traded to the Montreal Canadiens in 2002. After 43 games, he only had 5 goals; he eventually was demoted to the Hamilton Bulldogs of the American Hockey League. His contract was bought out and he signed a one year deal with the Islanders in 2003. The coastal air of Long Island proved to be exactly what the Polish winger needed, as he had a good 25 goals and 24 assists season. In 2000 he played in the NHL All-Star Game and made one assist there.

For his contribution to the development of Polish ice hockey, he received:
Knight's Cross of the Order of Polonia Restituta (5th Class) in 2004.

VanIslander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 07:09 PM
  #92
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 38,712
vCash: 500
Are there shootouts in this beer league? If so, Viktor Kozlov's value is about twice what it would be otherwise.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 07:13 PM
  #93
Hedberg
MLD Glue Guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,186
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Are there shootouts in this beer league? If so, Viktor Kozlov's value is about twice what it would be otherwise.
That's an interesting question. What is the regular season tie break format of the ATD levels?

Hedberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 07:23 PM
  #94
EagleBelfour
Registered User
 
EagleBelfour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,234
vCash: 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
That's an interesting question. What is the regular season tie break format of the ATD levels?
I always assume it was a 5on5 5 minutes OT. I never saw in the roster thread someone putting an '4on4' OT roster or a shootout roster.

EagleBelfour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2011, 07:33 PM
  #95
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 38,712
vCash: 500
I remember that after Viktor Kozlov's first season in NJ, he got caught with the bad end of the inconsistency bug, and was pretty awful during the game - he'd stickhandle until he lost the puck, didn't play defense, didn't play physical. IMO, he was only kept in the lineup for the shootouts. For several months, he played on the 4th line (imagine trying to use a player like Kozlov on your 4th line in this thing ), getting about 5 minutes per game. But he was there for every shootout, and despite being totally useless during the 60-65 minute game, singlehanded got the team at least an extra 5 points in the standings with his shootout prowess.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 07:28 AM
  #96
VanIslander
17/07/2014 ATD RIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,010
vCash: 500
Todd Elik



* 329 points over 448 NHL games
* 42 points in 52 NHL playoff games
* elite skating ability

Quote:
He was an exciting skater with blistering speed. He provided some timely offense while shoehorned into the role as the team's second line center.

That kind of sums up Elik's career. He would move from team to team to team, often as a short term solution at center. His speed created offense, but his hands were not quite up to speed. At times he looked off balance, unable to handle the puck at his breakneck pace. He was often unable to muster much of a shot from the high speed either. But every once in a while he would have a dazzling game, attracting a new team.

As a result he would bounce around the NHL. From Los Angeles he went to Minnesota, Edmonton, San Jose, St. Louis and Boston, never spending more than a couple of seasons with any team.

Bottom line? He was not a great offensive player, relying on his speed to create it, even though ironically his speed hindered him, too. He could not effectively play any role outside of second line center. He was willing to play physically, but he was too lean and weak to win many battles in traffic or along the boards.

VanIslander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 07:40 AM
  #97
VanIslander
17/07/2014 ATD RIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,010
vCash: 500
Brent Gilchrist



* played 792 NHL games and scored 305 points
* 90 playoff games and 31 playoff points
* 10th in NHL Plus-Minus in 1991-92
* Stanley Cup Champion (1998)

Quote:
In his rookie season with Montreal in 1988-89, Brent Gilchrist helped the Habs reach the Stanley Cup final. From 1989 to 1992, he took part in at least 50 games every season, playing a primarily defensive role while making key offensive contributions.

Considered a two-way player who delivered a solid game at both ends of the ice, he was chosen 79th overall by the Canadiens in the 1985 draft after spending two seasons in the junior ranks with the Kelowna Wings. Following his selection, Gilchrist spent two more years in junior hockey with the Spokane Chiefs, with whom he compiled a pair of 45-goal seasons.

The Moose Jaw native spent one season with the Sherbrooke Canadiens before making the leap to the NHL, averaging nearly a point a game with 74 points in 77 games in the AHL.

In 1991-92, his last season with the Canadiens, he had 23 goals and 27 assists in 79 games while maintaining a team-leading plus-29. Gilchrist’s career turned in a new direction in August of that year when he was traded to the Edmonton Oilers along with Shayne Corson and Vladimir Vujtek in exchange for Vincent Damphousse.

In 236 games with the Canadiens, Gilchrist scored 46 goals and 67 assists for a total of 113 points.

Gilchrist subsequently joined the Minnesota North Stars, who moved to Dallas the following season. His next stop was with Detroit, where he won his only Stanley Cup as a member of the 1997-98 Red Wings. He returned to Dallas in 2002 before spending one more season with Nashville. The back problems that sidelined him for most of the 1998-99 and 1999-2000 seasons returned during his stint with the Predators, forcing him to retire.

VanIslander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 09:23 AM
  #98
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,877
vCash: 500
LOVE the Gilchrist pick at this point... HATE the Elik pick in comparison.

Also, I was never a Kozlov fan (who was, really?) but he was the all-time leading scorer among available players, despite being inconsistent and despite peaking in the dead puck era.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 10:02 AM
  #99
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,877
vCash: 500
Melville selects Guyle Fielder, C



Perhaps Joe Pelletier's best bio ever explains both the "why" and the "why not" best:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Pelletier
Guyle Fielder only played in 15 NHL contests and never scored a single point, but he is one of hockey's all time greats. In fact one publication called him the greatest star hockey has never seen.

Fielder had a cup of coffee with the Chicago Blackhawks, Detroit Red Wings and Boston Bruins but he is generally considered to be one of - if not the VERY best - minor professional hockey players in hockey history.

Back in the 1950s and to a lesser extent the 1960s - the two decades Fielder dominated - minor league hockey was very strong in terms of competition. Many of the players and a few of the teams were definitely NHL quality. Because he played what, at that time anyways, was considered to be an unconventional brand of hockey, he never really got a good chance at the NHL. He simply refused to play the dump and chase, never handle the puck, defense first brand of hockey the NHL believed in back then. He would much rather have played in anonymity in the minor leagues where he still earned a good living and could play the style of hockey he liked.

Golden Guyle was born in Potlatch, Idaho on November 21st, 1930 although he moved with his family to Spalding, Saskatchewan before his second birthday. By the time he was 8 years old he had fallen in love with the game on the ice when his family moved to Nipawin, Saskatchewan. By the time he was in grade 8 he would drop out of school to concentrate on his hockey abilities. Soon he would move to Prince Albert where he starred with the Prince Albert Mintos of the Saskatchewan Junior Hockey League then later to Lethbridge to play with Native Sons of the Western Canadian Junior Hockey League. He tore up these junior leagues - leading them in goals once, points twice and assists 3 times in his 4 seasons of junior hockey.

Late in 1951 - his final year of junior hockey - the 5'9" 165 pound playmaking wizard signed as a free agent with the NHL Chicago Blackhawks. He played in 3 games with linemates Bep Guidolin and Freddie Hucul but didn't get a point or a chance to really show what he was cable of.

Guyle, or Tom as he was known to many of his teammates, was capable of a lot. Had he gotten a chance he might have revolutionized the NHL game. Back in the 1950s and 1960s it was an extreme defensive game. Fielder's game incorporated some of the same aspects that Wayne Gretzky's would many years later. Although his statistics make it easy to suggest, it would be unfair to say Guyle Fielder was the Wayne Gretzky of the 1950s and 1960s. Fielder loved to carry the puck from his own zone, weaving in and out through the neutral zone, gain the offensive zone and then set up the offense. He used a shifty skating ploy as he lacked any element of speed to gain the zones. He rarely would just fire the puck into the zone. Instead he'd carry the puck in and play keep away with his incredible puck handling abilities. After drawing the attention of all the defenders Guy would then dish the puck off to an open teammate who would more often than not have a good opportunity to score.

Despite his success with this game style in the minor leagues, no NHL team was willing to allow him to try the same thing in the big leagues.

The Hawks felt Fielder's style of play wasn't ready for the NHL the following season and was loaned to the New Westminster Royals of the PCHL. He had a strong season - scoring 25 goals and 75 points in just 57 games. yet he never got that call back to Chicago.

The Hawks traded Fielder to the Detroit Red Wings just prior to the start of the 1952-53 season. People in the Motor City were excited that this youngster was in their system. They had visions of this super playmaker playing on a line with the great Gordie Howe!

It didn't work out that way however. Fielder was sent to the St. Louis Flyers of the AHL where he led the league in assists with 61 in 62 games while capturing the Red Garrett Memorial Award as the league's top rookie. He got a call up to Detroit for 4 games in the playoffs - but failed to score any points.

The Wings left Fielder unprotected on their waiver list in September 1953. The New York Rangers claimed him but traded him to the Seattle Bombers of the WHL. Seattle would become the home of Fielder and his greatness for many years.

After leading the WHL with 64 assists and 84 points in 68 games, the NHL came calling for Fielder again. The Boston Bruins purchased Guy from Seattle. However he'd only play 2 playoff games in a Bruins jersey, and otherwise played in the minor leagues yet again. At first he was sent back to the New West Royals (he again led the league in assists with 67 that year) but by 1955-56 he was again in Seattle - playing for the same WHL team now named the Americans.

Fielder really took his game to a new level when he to back to Seattle. He obliterated hockey scoring records in 1956-57 when scored 33 goals and unheard of 89 assists and 122 points! This of course convinced the NHL to once again give Guyle a look.

The Red Wings came back looking for him, and purchased his rights for NHL participation from the Bruins. He started the year in Detroit playing on the top line with Gordie Howe. However the experiment ended shortly. The Wings got off to an awful start - and Guyle again went pointless in what proved to be his last NHL stint.

"It might have been different if I'd been able to play on a line without Howe," he explained. "Gordie was the same type of player that I was. He liked to have control of the puck, make the plays, set up the others to score. There wasn't much point in having both of us out there on the same line." Guyle said in Stan Fischler's Hockey Encyclopedia (1975)

The Wings lost their first 6 games and Fielder found himself quickly moved off the first line and eventually onto the bench. Frustrated, Fielder asked to go back to Seattle where he had played so well in the past.

"He called me one night and said, 'Get me the hell out of here,'" recalls his Seattle coach Keith Allen, who was glad to have him back.

"I said I'd rather play in the minors than sit on the bench in the NHL," said Fielder.

When Guy returned to Seattle - now renamed the Totems - he picked up right where he left off. He scored 26 goals and again led the league with 85 assists and 111 points.

The Toronto Maple Leafs came calling after that season, but they could not woo Guy out of Seattle. Guy was apprenticing as an electrician at the time, and was thinking of his long term future. He didn't want to leave the city of Seattle without some guarantees. There was a lot of bus and train travel between those cities and if he signed he wanted play in either Toronto or Seattle, and never have to make that long trip.

He never could come to an agreement with Punch Imlach, Toronto's GM, so he remained in Seattle for the next 11 years. He led the league in assists in 9 of those years (including a career high 95 in 1958-59) and points 7 years.

As the 1960's decade came to a close Fielder was finally moved from Seattle. He went to Salt Lake City, Utah in a WHL trade for a young Bobby Schmautz. Guyle played 2 and 1/2 seasons their and 1 and 1/2 seasons with the Portland Buckaroos.

Fielder's statistics are mind boggling - even if they are all in the Western Hockey League. The WHL was generally considered to be the third best league during its time - behind the NHL and the number one farm league - the AHL, although Fielder claimed it was only "a half-step if that behind" the NHL. He has 9 league scoring titles to his credit, along with 14 assist titles. What makes his 9 scoring titles even more impressive is that he was never among the top goal scorers in any league. In fact he only top 30 twice as a pro in 22 years.

His assist statistics and shifty skating style make many people compare him as "The Wayne Gretzky of the minor leagues." His former coach and long time Philadelphia Flyer executive Keith Allen called him "The Gordie Howe of the minor leagues" long before anyone had heard of Gretzky. "He was the greatest minor league player I've ever seen in my life....He could make a play as well as anyone in hockey."

There is no doubt that Guyle is the greatest player in the old WHL professional league. Fielder won the Leader Cup - Most Valuable Player in the WHL - six times, the Leading Scorer Award nine times, the Fred J. Hume Cup - Most Gentlemanly Player award - three times, and had 12 all-star mentions. In his professional career he had 1,929 points in 1496 regular season games including his one season in the American Hockey League. Those totals include 439 goals and 1490 assists! If you count his playoff points he became the first hockey player to score over 2000 points in a career!

Yet he only had 15 games in the NHL - and no points. How is it possible that perhaps the best player of the era not named Howe, Richard or Beliveau could not play in the National Hockey League?

"In that era it was always a mystery as to why he wasn't playing in the NHL....He was an outstanding player," advised long time NHL referee and Hall of Fame hockey builder Scotty Morrison.

"He played his own style of hockey," says one time linemate and long time NHLer Val Fonteyne, "but up there (in the NHL) you played the style they wanted. They used to tell you if you don't make the play just dump the puck in. But Guyle used to hang on to it until he made the play. You could get away with that in the minors but not in the NHL."

As a result NHL teams would be as impatient as Guyle was stubborn about the style of play. Word got out about his insistence on playing his way, and not the accepted team way, and he was quickly labeled as an individualist and not a good team player by the NHL big wigs.

Edmonton sports columnist John Short offered a slightly different point of view:

"He was a great hockey player but he didn't want to work hard enough to play in the NHL."

Keith Allen disagrees. "I worked the hell out of that little bugger," says Allen. "He started the game. He played the power play. He killed penalties. I'd say he played, conservatively, 30 minutes a game for me in Seattle."

Guyle Fielder is one of the greatest hockey players ever - only very few people know it. He was very much a man before his time. Had he come along 20 or 30 years later, he would have excelled as his style of play became more and more accepted.

There is even a small movement to get him elected to the Hockey Hall of Fame as a result of his minor league accomplishments. While it is unlikely he will get in, he deserves a look.
He probably should have been in the NHL on merit, but even if you agree with the institution that he didn't, he was probably the game's best offensive player outside the NHL. If the league was just a few teams larger, someone would have had to take a flyer on him, rather than trying to make the Rudy Migays and Hinky Harrises of the league into scoring line players.

It's difficult to determine whether the AHL or the WHL was truly the "second-best" league of the 1946-1960 period. When Fielder led the AHL in scoring in 1953, there were 18 so-far drafted players who played at least 20 games there, generally on the way up or on the way down. When Fielder led the 1964 WHL in scoring, there were a dozen there. The WHL was probably a small step down from the AHL, but Fielder proved he could dominate the AHL at age 22 before moving over.

Just to recap:

- 9 WHL points titles
- 14 WHL assist titles
- 6 WHL MVPs
- 12 WHL all-star teams and one in the AHL

why not:

- very little NHL time, it's always so easy to default to guy who at least played there a long time
- when he did play in the NHL, he couldn't put up a single point.
- pretty small, although not TOO small for the era
- "possible" attitude problem

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2011, 10:14 AM
  #100
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,877
vCash: 500
Melville selects Steve Kraftcheck, D



Kraftcheck might have the best career of any AHL defenseman. He had the career points record for decades, and he was a six-time all-star from 1956 through 1961, a time when being an AHL all-star really meant something. This includes three first team selections in 1958, 1959, and 1960, and his Eddie Shore trophy as the league's top defenseman in 1959.

He had 9 AHL seasons in which he had at least 33 points. I'm not going to count up all those rankings, but in the 9th-best of them, when he had 33, it was in 47 games and was on pace for 3rd among defensemen, and when he had 34, it was 5th.

A record like this tells me that Kraftcheck should have been in the NHL these seasons, even if as a #3-4, even if on an average team. He was probably hockey's 20th-best blueliner in his prime, or even better than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahlhalloffame.com
Steve Kraftcheck was known as one of the smartest and steadiest defensemen in American Hockey League history. He retired in 1964 as the AHL's all-time leading scorer among blueliners with 453 points, a standard that would hold up for more than four decades.
Why not?

- He played mostly in the AHL. But while in the NHL (157 games) he was a serviceable player.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:49 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.