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Paul Holmgren earns 3-year contract extension

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Old
01-18-2011, 08:48 PM
  #101
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darroll powe was an undrafted free agent.


on a team that was so desperate for a puckmover that a bottom pairing guy was getting decent minutes on the power play jones made out well and he signed an rfa deal on potential. potential that looked like it was finally working out just previously. it was too much money and the bad hip he has now made it a bad move in retrospect but i try not to kill homer on that deal. recalling him was just asanine.

homer other flaw was the lupul deal another one on potential. i think thats what cost us this years draft pick. i was really afraid he was going to fall in love with giroux as well, but he seems to have llearned from his mistakes and i like that. it shows growth.

lastly i liked this from timmy p.

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Barry is knowledgeable with the salary cap and what we can and can’t do. It gets tricky at times but Barry is very in-depth at figuring things out. It’s not rocket science but sometimes it seems like it is, and Barry helps out in those regards.
it seems theres someone else to blame for the cap failures. is he a new addition or is this the guy whose been screwing things up all along. homers dismissal of cap management, sort of shows this is an area we may not see him improve on.

i like the signing. i still think he should add to the staff.


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01-18-2011, 09:01 PM
  #102
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Yeah, while Holmgren seems to be prone to some bonehead mistakes that will prevent him from joining the Holland-class of GMs, he is better than probably 2/3 of the league (a sad indictment on the state of NHL front offices), so I think it's a decent move.

Does the deal come with a calculator as well?

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01-18-2011, 09:15 PM
  #103
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it seems theres someone else to blame for the cap failures. is he a new addition or is this the guy whose been screwing things up all along. homers dismissal of cap management, sort of shows this is an area we may not see him improve on.

i like the signing. i still think he should add to the staff.
Barry Hanrahan. He's been with the team since the post-lockout. He went to Widener School of law. Worked for the Lightning prior to the Flyers.

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01-18-2011, 09:17 PM
  #104
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Here's the Q and A from earlier today (involving Peter Luukko, too):

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...ion-transcript

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Q: Peter, Paul has developed some relationships with players away from the ice, helped them with some off-ice issues, and several free agents have said one of the reasons they came here was because he cares about his players. Do you think that's part of his success here?

"There's no doubt he's a players general manager and he's a good person and an honest person. When you're honest with players and support your players, word gets out in the league. One, they play harder for you when they're here but word gets out that their the type of organization we are and we've always been that way and right back to Ed Snider and Keith Allen when they started and right through Bob [Clarke] and then Paul [Holmgren]."

Q: Do you find that honesty also is shown when he's dealing with other general managers? You probably see that in other meetings. How is he thought of by other general managers in the league?

"They have a lot of respect for him. I think one thing that is very interesting with Paul is that he deals with every general manager in the league. Sometimes when you get in you have favorites or maybe you had a difficult time with somebody and you stop dealing with them. If you look at Paul, he has that great relationship. But at the end of the day, Paul wants to do what's best for this team and what's best for winning so he puts everything aside from that and does what's best for the team. But his contemporaries really like him. And he had that reputation as an assistant general manager and he dealt with a lot of those guys at that time, and he's just carried that on."

Q: Picking up on that thought, did you learn more about him and some of the most difficult decisions that he had to make last year, obviously John Stevens comes to mind.

"Well I think we learned a lot about each other in that difficult season. That's probably one of the toughest years I'd like to say in any of our lives, and the way at first he came together and said OK, here's what I'd like to do, here's the plan - let's begin to get rid of some of these contracts, we've got some good young players coming in. The Forsberg deal is a difficult deal. Peter is a very good player. But we cleared the cap space, played the young players, and then went out and got the free agents. So right from the beginning you could see Paul had a plan and he had the calmness to follow through on that and when there's so much pressure on a brand new general manager to win, and he did that. And the John Stevens situation was very difficult and it dwells on all of us and John's family, drafted by the organization, played in the minor leagues, played at the major league level, won Calder Cups, and had a lot of success. But again, Paul had to do what was best for the team and what was best for us long term. Those are difficult decisions to make, but he made the decision and certainly you learn a lot about someone in the toughest of times."

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01-18-2011, 10:02 PM
  #105
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Yeah, while Holmgren seems to be prone to some bonehead mistakes that will prevent him from joining the Holland-class of GMs, he is better than probably 2/3 of the league (a sad indictment on the state of NHL front offices), so I think it's a decent move.

Does the deal come with a calculator as well?
I heard it does, but no monkey training.

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01-18-2011, 10:11 PM
  #106
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Barry Hanrahan. He's been with the team since the post-lockout. He went to Widener School of law. Worked for the Lightning prior to the Flyers.
well then he sucks

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01-19-2011, 08:33 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
Here's the Q and A from earlier today (involving Peter Luukko, too):

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...ion-transcript
And this is why I love Paul Holmgren. Just like Lou in New Jersey, Homer is getting a name as being very good to his players. Players love him, ownership loves him, the national media gives him credit as the/one of the best GM's in hockey. Sometimes as fans we are harder on guys then we should be and think more of others than we should. In Homers case, I tend to look at what the rest of the league thinks and everywhere I read he is considered one of the best in the business.

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01-19-2011, 12:14 PM
  #108
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As a vocal critic of Holmgren's off-season this past summer, I can agree with the general sentiment that he is an above-average GM with a great recent degree of success. It's the fumbles on (to we the intelligentsia) the bleedin' obvious that are cause for my bald spots and head trauma. Like the discussion in the thread about last season's Cup run, Holmgren has been both good and lucky. I maintain that, at the time, any one of Turco, Nabokov, or Mason were a relatively better choice than Leighton, especially for the salary he ended up signing for. Imagine the uproar here if a) Bob hadn't emerged from almost nowhere, and b) any of the above was having a stellar season. Nabokov is a different case because he priced himself out of consideration, as far as we know.

That being said, I'll fully admit that I have lobbed heavy criticism based on my limited viewpoint regarding player availability and negotiations. It's easy to sit here in front of my keyboard and blame Holmgren for not landing Player X, when I don't have a clue if Player X was ever actually discussed. The aforementioned goalie situation is a good case study: we had snippets of info heavily seasoned by speculation and conjecture on which we – please consider on your own if you fit into this "we" – vilified Holmgren for not signing Turco/Nabokov/Mason. Who (the heck) knows what the conversations really were?

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01-19-2011, 12:25 PM
  #109
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As a vocal critic of Holmgren's off-season this past summer, I can agree with the general sentiment that he is an above-average GM with a great recent degree of success. It's the fumbles on (to we the intelligentsia) the bleedin' obvious that are cause for my bald spots and head trauma. Like the discussion in the thread about last season's Cup run, Holmgren has been both good and lucky. I maintain that, at the time, any one of Turco, Nabokov, or Mason were a relatively better choice than Leighton, especially for the salary he ended up signing for. Imagine the uproar here if a) Bob hadn't emerged from almost nowhere, and b) any of the above was having a stellar season. Nabokov is a different case because he priced himself out of consideration, as far as we know.

That being said, I'll fully admit that I have lobbed heavy criticism based on my limited viewpoint regarding player availability and negotiations. It's easy to sit here in front of my keyboard and blame Holmgren for not landing Player X, when I don't have a clue if Player X was ever actually discussed. The aforementioned goalie situation is a good case study: we had snippets of info heavily seasoned by speculation and conjecture on which we – please consider on your own if you fit into this "we" – vilified Holmgren for not signing Turco/Nabokov/Mason. Who (the heck) knows what the conversations really were?
The vast majority of the goalie options signed for dirt cheap and Nabokov went to the KHL and is currently still a free agent. Philly is a great market and the media is usually pretty good at getting the facts out. So unless there's some kind of extenuating circumstance or ridiculous hate for Philly from these players that the media didn't know about, there's no reason to assume that they weren't signable.

Free agency is *mostly* about money. A lot of the free agent goalie options signed for dirt cheap and many of them signed as backups. Common sense dictates that there's no reason why Homer couldn't have signed them. Especially when you consider how many there were.

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01-19-2011, 01:03 PM
  #110
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It is interesting that the title of this thread reads: "Paul Holmgren earns ...".

Most of the times when a player signs a contract it reads: "Player X signs ..." or Player X recieves ...".

Psychologically, it is as if the players who are busting their balls on the ice are given handouts while GMs are the true breadwinners.

Back on topic:

Most of Holmgren's best moves (Timonen, trading Forsberg, trading for Pronger by VASTLY overpaying, etc.) were absolute no brainers that ANYONE could have pulled off.

Most of Holmgren's worst moves (Upshall trade, Lupul contract, Jones contract and recall, etc.) were absolutely retarded and made any logical fan question whether he had downs syndrome.

Holmgren saved a lot of face by the Flyer's unexpected cup run last season and Bob's emergence this season. If the Flyers lose to the NYR last season and Bob is in the AHL while we watch Leighton makes us wish we had signed Dan Ellis and his bloated GAA then I, personally, think Holmgren is fired by now.

That being said, it seems he is getting slightly better at not handing out NTC like candy and signing players to cheaper cap hits by tacking on years, and hopefully he learned from the Jones debacle, crippled prospect pool and about taking chances on Russian players moving forward.

In conclusion, Holmgren is a decent NOW GM, but a putrid FUTURE GM that makes extremely risky moves... thankfully for us, many of those risky moves have been masked by luck, BUT, I fully expect that that will not always be the case.

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01-19-2011, 02:46 PM
  #111
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Homer has done a good job. The good moves definitly outweigh the bad and in this league that's a good thing. Whether you like him or not, this team had progressed and all the cap stuff really hasn't hurt them like most people said it would 2-3 years ago. Look at the Hawks, they had to gut that team, this team has used minor tweaks. It also cracks me up to see people blame homer for moves that didn't work out but give him no credit for signing big name players. If signing big name players that are successful is so easy then why did nobody else do it? He could have easily signed redden but he didn't. He could have signed Gomez or drury instead of Briere but he didn't. He could have picked up bouwmeister who was ridiculously overrated but he got pronger instead. Just because they worked out doesn't make them no brainers that he shouldn't get credit for. He's got the core of the team locked up long term to what wi be very low cap hits in 5 years or so. He's done a good job and deserves this contract.

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01-20-2011, 08:46 AM
  #112
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Holmgren prime example of a “Flyer for life”


http://nhlhotstove.com/holmgren-prim...lyer-for-life/

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01-20-2011, 09:07 AM
  #113
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Not True. Ed had no plans on firing Homer.
That's easy to say after coming off a Finals run.


If the Flyers missed the playoffs, he would have been gone. The team would have been blown up.


The Flyers don't sit on their hands under those circumstances.

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He is a Home-run hitter that strikes out from time to time. I much prefer that to Bob Gainey/Dean Lombardi who sit on their hands scared to lose a deal. People continue to ignore the team results as a factor,e ignore the positive deals, won't give Homer the Pronger deal unless we win a Stanley Cup (the hardest trophy in sports to win), etc. So, Homer will never be fully accepted until the Flyers win a cup and I will be the first one on here saying - OK, enough already. Leave Homer alone - we just won it all, give it up, give it a rest, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!
The goal of this organization is nothing short of that. Bob Clarke was held to the same expectations by the public. Team was always in it, but never got it done.

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01-20-2011, 09:49 AM
  #114
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Yeah, while Holmgren seems to be prone to some bonehead mistakes that will prevent him from joining the Holland-class of GMs, he is better than probably 2/3 of the league (a sad indictment on the state of NHL front offices), so I think it's a decent move.

Does the deal come with a calculator as well?
Not just NHL front offices... front offices in all four sports seem to be woefully short on intellectual capacity. Thus why some NFL organizations are so noticeably superior to others (again, not rocket science). The NBA is just an abject disaster on this front.

Just take the Atlantic division.

Rangers - Sather is a disaster.
NYI - organization is a disaster.

Devils - Lou has struggled ever since the salary cap was put in place. More than a few terrible contracts, and he's done a terrible job replacing lost talent on the blue line.

Pittsburgh - I'm a fan of the job Shero has done. He's made some savvy trades, and, of course, won a Cup. Having the top heavy roster they have is both helpful and harmful to the GM, and think he's managing it well on the whole.

Philly - Holmgren has a strong eye for talent, but has struggled with balancing team construction. He's finally gotten forwards/defense balanced out, but we are going cheap in goal. As long as you have cheap options there that can play effectively you're OK with this formula, but as we saw last year the team unraveled due to that position. He's also gutted the farm system, which is another (and important) problem. Of course, there's also the notable cap management struggles the last few years... which maybe he's beginning to figure out.


Last edited by Jester: 01-20-2011 at 09:54 AM.
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01-20-2011, 09:51 AM
  #115
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The NBA is just an abject disaster on this front.
I guess black people can't do math...

Racist.

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01-20-2011, 11:56 AM
  #116
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Not just NHL front offices... front offices in all four sports seem to be woefully short on intellectual capacity. Thus why some NFL organizations are so noticeably superior to others (again, not rocket science). The NBA is just an abject disaster on this front.
Sounds a lot like the Red Wings, the Devils, the Flyers...

Noticing a pattern yourself yet?

GMs are not 100% flawless. And, I'm not saying you're wrong about the "woefully short on intellectual capacity bit," but I think you'd find their job is much harder than you think. Honestly, I highly doubt you'd be a good GM.

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01-20-2011, 11:59 AM
  #117
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I dont think anyone here would be a great GM, hell even a good GM. Same holds for being a head coach.

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01-20-2011, 12:02 PM
  #118
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Sounds a lot like the Red Wings, the Devils, the Flyers...

Noticing a pattern yourself yet?

GMs are not 100% flawless. And, I'm not saying you're wrong about the "woefully short on intellectual capacity bit," but I think you'd find their job is much harder than you think. Honestly, I highly doubt you'd be a good GM.
Flyers are not noticeably superior in how they are run... and it's especially hilarious when you lump them in with the Red Wings and Devils. Both teams have multiple of something this organization has been looking for since prior to my birth.

Chris, being a GM of a sports team isn't particularly challenging from an intellectual perspective. Winning championships is... but the intellectual side is not. However, teams routinely (and this cannot be stressed enough), routinely completely and utterly F crap up that there is no justifiable reason to F up. This is largely because the hiring practice for all sports (until recent shifts that we are seeing in football and baseball) has been for the old boys network (note: the Flyers are particularly guilty of this) to be the pool from which you hire. Those folks know the sport, but they are not well trained in the host of other matters that are required of GMs... particularly in the modern capped league era. Being a strong talent evaluator is only half the job (at most).

And I really could not care less whether you think I'd be a good GM or not... and given that I'm not exactly pursuing that career, who the F cares? Thanks for the opinion. For the record, I think you'd suck too.

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01-20-2011, 12:04 PM
  #119
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Chris would be even worse, since he would think every player on his team holds way more value than they really do, no one would want to deal with him

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01-20-2011, 12:07 PM
  #120
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I dont think anyone here would be a great GM, hell even a good GM. Same holds for being a head coach.
Disagree... I think a fair number of folks would be perfectly good GMs. Being a GM is not particularly hard. Being a good scout... hard. Having the ability to watch a 16-18 y/o kid play and project him onto a 25 y/o athlete is a very tough thing, which is why the fail rate is so high.

Most of the problems GMs have (in all sports) are self-inflicted wounds. What anyone here would need is a strong group of advisors that can manage those highly specific skill-set jobs, and listen to 'em. This is where both MLB and NFL teams are making the headway as far as rationalizing the management of teams... and the teams that are having the most consistent success are beginning to be managed by folks that have relatively little experience in the sport, but are strong on management skills and decision making that would fly in any walk of life.

Anyone that thinks the job of a GM is addressing truly complex subject matter... hasn't spent much time reading or thinking about the management of actual complex subject matter.

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01-20-2011, 12:09 PM
  #121
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Chris would be even worse, since he would think every player on his team holds way more value than they really do, no one would want to deal with him
Ha, a homer joke. That's new, different, and exciting.

I wouldn't make a good GM, but it was nothing to do with how I value players.

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01-20-2011, 12:16 PM
  #122
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Ha, a homer joke. That's new, different, and exciting.

I wouldn't make a good GM, but it was nothing to do with how I value players.
Then what?

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01-20-2011, 12:28 PM
  #123
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Disagree... I think a fair number of folks would be perfectly good GMs. Being a GM is not particularly hard. Being a good scout... hard. Having the ability to watch a 16-18 y/o kid play and project him onto a 25 y/o athlete is a very tough thing, which is why the fail rate is so high.

Most of the problems GMs have (in all sports) are self-inflicted wounds. What anyone here would need is a strong group of advisors that can manage those highly specific skill-set jobs, and listen to 'em. This is where both MLB and NFL teams are making the headway as far as rationalizing the management of teams... and the teams that are having the most consistent success are beginning to be managed by folks that have relatively little experience in the sport, but are strong on management skills and decision making that would fly in any walk of life.

Anyone that thinks the job of a GM is addressing truly complex subject matter... hasn't spent much time reading or thinking about the management of actual complex subject matter.
Being good enough to hold a steady GM job in the NHL isnt easy. i wouldnt want the job. There is a reason why for the most part the shelf life of having a job with one team isnt very long. Yeah maybe anyone here could do it. But do it well enough to keep your team competitve? I am not seeing it.

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01-20-2011, 12:37 PM
  #124
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Being good enough to hold a steady GM job in the NHL isnt easy. i wouldnt want the job. There is a reason why for the most part the shelf life of having a job with one team isnt very long. Yeah maybe anyone here could do it. But do it well enough to keep your team competitve? I am not seeing it.
High level management positions across the board do not necessarily have long tenures... there's nothing particularly notable about that within sports. Owners are impatient and that creates problems for GMs/Coaches... boards can be impatient, which can create problems for presidents/CEOs/etc (and this is without getting into even more interesting examples, such as the military).

Moreover, job security isn't necessarily a good indicator of the difficulty of the job. Particularly when a primary aspect of what I would argue about GMs (in all leagues, not just the NHL) is that the individuals they hire are not necessarily the best suited group of individuals to do the job description of a GM at this point.

The reality is that not everyone is well suited to making management decisions... regardless of what we're specifically talking about. However, bypassing college and spending your formative adult years as a player... then moving into scouting/coaching is not necessarily going to set you up well to be a GM. Some will progress into that role smoothly and have the mental acumen/approach for the gig (so far, Yzerman looks like a good example of that).

In other cases, strengths and weaknesses are tested differently and this exposes problems. Take Sather, for example. He's been an unmitigated disaster since he got to the Rangers and had a large wallet to work with. However, he was hired from Edmonton because he did a very good job with very little there. Is Sather a good GM, or a bad GM based on his resume?

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01-20-2011, 12:40 PM
  #125
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I'm surprised this thread degenerated.

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