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French help (need help again, Post #102)

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Old
01-05-2011, 11:06 PM
  #51
coolasprICE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs Fan in NJ View Post
Hey guys. I'm currently in my 2nd semester of college, and I'll be moving into French 102.

What would you guys say is the best way to learn French, especially Quebecois French? (is it even that different?) I know nothing comes easy, I just want it to be proficient. I got a B+ in my French 101 class, but I feel like I don't know much more than I did heading into it except for maybe picking up a few words per sentence when reading.

I'd prefer not to spend almost $1000 on software, but if that Rosetta Stone type stuff is good then I guess I'll go for that.
cheapest and most enjoyable way to learn french is to do french.

By that, I mean, find a french speaking girlfriend.

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01-05-2011, 11:10 PM
  #52
Boardish
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Originally Posted by Habs Fan in NJ View Post
Hey guys. I'm currently in my 2nd semester of college, and I'll be moving into French 102.

What would you guys say is the best way to learn French, especially Quebecois French? (is it even that different?) I know nothing comes easy, I just want it to be proficient. I got a B+ in my French 101 class, but I feel like I don't know much more than I did heading into it except for maybe picking up a few words per sentence when reading.

I'd prefer not to spend almost $1000 on software, but if that Rosetta Stone type stuff is good then I guess I'll go for that.
Rosetta Stone is not really good to be honest. You will learn words, but won't be able to do a sentance that makes sense. It might be different for French (it's my native language, so didn't try the french software obviously), but for the other languages I learned it wasn't efficient. Like everything in this world, you can get it for free if you know where to look.

Best way (by yourself) would be I guess to get yourself a workbook and work hard. Listening to French TV/movies, reading french too. You could also get something like Pilsmeur (audio files) and listen to it in your car. Travel to French speaking countries.

It's hard to learn a language when you are not really motivated (like everything else I guess).

Quebecois French is probably as different from France as is US English from England.


Last edited by Boardish: 01-05-2011 at 11:17 PM.
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Old
01-05-2011, 11:35 PM
  #53
Galchenyuk27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boardish View Post
Rosetta Stone is not really good to be honest. You will learn words, but won't be able to do a sentance that makes sense. It might be different for French (it's my native language, so didn't try the french software obviously), but for the other languages I learned it wasn't efficient. Like everything in this world, you can get it for free if you know where to look.

Best way (by yourself) would be I guess to get yourself a workbook and work hard. Listening to French TV/movies, reading french too. You could also get something like Pilsmeur (audio files) and listen to it in your car. Travel to French speaking countries.

It's hard to learn a language when you are not really motivated (like everything else I guess).

Quebecois French is probably as different from France as is US English from England.
So basically learning "France French" (which is presumably way more prevalent and easy to find) wouldn't be that bad, it's just accent and the odd expression here and there?

I'm glad you told me that now about Rosetta Stone considering I think it's like $500 for one stage.

I'm so overwhelmed, I just don't know where to start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
cheapest and most enjoyable way to learn french is to do french.

By that, I mean, find a french speaking girlfriend.
My girlfriend of 2+ years who is also a Habs fan now probably wouldn't like that too much.

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Old
01-06-2011, 02:01 AM
  #54
Max Levine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs Fan in NJ View Post
Hey guys. I'm currently in my 2nd semester of college, and I'll be moving into French 102.

What would you guys say is the best way to learn French, especially Quebecois French? (is it even that different?) I know nothing comes easy, I just want it to be proficient. I got a B+ in my French 101 class, but I feel like I don't know much more than I did heading into it except for maybe picking up a few words per sentence when reading.

I'd prefer not to spend almost $1000 on software, but if that Rosetta Stone type stuff is good then I guess I'll go for that.
Books and audio tapes, then practice with someone. You could find someone online to practice with. You can also find some sites with different lessons (I had found a couple for a friend, I'll try to find them for you).

Edit: Couldn't find the one I had but these look good: http://www.francaisfacile.com/index.php along with a message board.
And one with video in France: http://www.laits.utexas.edu/fi/home


I had a gf who would speak to me in one language and I would respond in another. When people would look at us amused, I'd say: "We're bilingual".


Quote:
Originally Posted by puckguy11 View Post
Is there a way I can learn hockey terms in French so I can understand things like RDS/the Habs French radio call? I'm American so my Francophone background is non.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=29472

Of course, it doesn't give you the pronunciation.


Last edited by Max Levine: 01-06-2011 at 02:30 AM.
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Old
01-06-2011, 03:56 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Boardish View Post
Rosetta Stone is not really good to be honest. You will learn words, but won't be able to do a sentance that makes sense. It might be different for French (it's my native language, so didn't try the french software obviously), but for the other languages I learned it wasn't efficient. Like everything in this world, you can get it for free if you know where to look.

Best way (by yourself) would be I guess to get yourself a workbook and work hard. Listening to French TV/movies, reading french too. You could also get something like Pilsmeur (audio files) and listen to it in your car. Travel to French speaking countries.

It's hard to learn a language when you are not really motivated (like everything else I guess).

Quebecois French is probably as different from France as is US English from England.
Quebecois French is not a language, BTW, it's a dialect. IMO, it's a bastardized version of the European (Standard) French. Further, it's only recognized in Quebec. If you speak Quebecois French in France, you're highly likely to be laughed at... and nobody will understand what you mean.

There are a lot of differences between Quebecois French and Standard (European) French Grammar is different, the vocabulary (lot more anglicisms in the informal vocabulary but less in the formal (Frenchmen truly love their ''stops'' and to go ''shopping'' for instance) and more importantly, the accent.

I strongly encourage you to learn Standard French which is recognized everywhere. On the other hand, Quebecois French will only serve you well in Quebec. Most of the anglos I know are learning Standard French, but since they live in Quebec, they are able to converse in 'Quebecois'.

If you listen to Quebec TV shows or RDS broadcasts and at the same time learning Standard French, you will likely be confused. However, I can say that Pierre Houde (play-by-play announcer at RDS) speaks an excellent French. Sadly, his peers Benoit Brunet (LOL!) and the rest of the RDS crew do not.

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01-06-2011, 12:32 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimkay View Post
Quebecois French is not a language, BTW, it's a dialect. IMO, it's a bastardized version of the European (Standard) French. Further, it's only recognized in Quebec. If you speak Quebecois French in France, you're highly likely to be laughed at... and nobody will understand what you mean.

There are a lot of differences between Quebecois French and Standard (European) French Grammar is different, the vocabulary (lot more anglicisms in the informal vocabulary but less in the formal (Frenchmen truly love their ''stops'' and to go ''shopping'' for instance) and more importantly, the accent.

I strongly encourage you to learn Standard French which is recognized everywhere. On the other hand, Quebecois French will only serve you well in Quebec. Most of the anglos I know are learning Standard French, but since they live in Quebec, they are able to converse in 'Quebecois'.

If you listen to Quebec TV shows or RDS broadcasts and at the same time learning Standard French, you will likely be confused. However, I can say that Pierre Houde (play-by-play announcer at RDS) speaks an excellent French. Sadly, his peers Benoit Brunet (LOL!) and the rest of the RDS crew do not.
FOr the moment lets accept there is a single Québecois dialect (there are several, talk to someone from Montreal and then to someone from Gaspé or Abitibi) , to call it a bastardization is a misnomer.

Québecois in fact retains far closer phonetics to 16th-17th century French than modern "Standard"/International French. There's a few syntactic and other grammatical quirks its held on to as well.

On the other hand it contains various innovations, mostly due to its close contact with English, at least in Montreal.

Its really pretty damn cool from a linguistic perspective.

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01-06-2011, 02:00 PM
  #57
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Quite honestly the chances I ever go to France are pretty little. The chances I go to Quebec again, well, that I can promise loads more in my lifetime. I even plan on having a condo or something there when older, and probably retiring there. So Quebecois French is important to me to say the least, which makes it all the more tricky for me since it's obviously a lot harder to find lessons compared to European French.

Is it even perhaps destructive to learn European French when my goal is Quebecois French, or is it a foundation?

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01-06-2011, 02:16 PM
  #58
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No it wouldnt be destructive.

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01-06-2011, 02:26 PM
  #59
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I'm sure you could find ''international french'' lessons. That's how most people in the media speak in Quebec, that's also how English movies are dubbed over here.

Anyway even if you learn France's french, you will still learn the exact same words, grammars rules, etc, that are used in Quebec. Accent will obviously be different (+expressions), and it might be a bit hard at the beginning understanding casual ''Quebec french'' but it really won't be destructive.

Best way to learn from scratch is probably with a workbook with written exercises and such, where you will see very little difference between Quebec and France. After that you can watch movies from Quebec or France if you want to get the accent I guess.

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01-08-2011, 12:18 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by AnAverageHF View Post
FOr the moment lets accept there is a single Québecois dialect (there are several, talk to someone from Montreal and then to someone from Gaspé or Abitibi) , to call it a bastardization is a misnomer.

Québecois in fact retains far closer phonetics to 16th-17th century French than modern "Standard"/International French. There's a few syntactic and other grammatical quirks its held on to as well.
That's normal, IMO. Languages do evolve at some point.

As for you OP, Int'l French will serve as foundation if QC French is what you really want to learn.

Theoretically (and I may or may not be right, but that's what I have observed over the years), most of the differences between QC and Int'l French are in the informal dialogue. When writing, grammar and syntax are mostly identical, and so is the vocabulary. The essay that I wrote during the General French Exam in CEGEP (intermediate step between HS and College in Quebec) would probably be graded in a similar fashion in France too. I think, and I am saying this as a native "Standard" (Int'l) French speaker, that most of the differences are in the way people talk in Quebec. Syntax, grammar and especially vocabulary are very different.

And... the more "Quebecois" someone speaks partly has to do with the social standing of that person. Usually, richer, more affluent Quebecers speak a rather soft Quebecois (closer to Int'l French), while the blue-collar, working class, farmers, speak a rather strong one. I guess a similar pattern is also seen in other countries.

Overall, it has more to do with the way you speak than the way you write.

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01-08-2011, 01:39 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimkay View Post
Quebecois French is not a language, BTW, it's a dialect. IMO, it's a bastardized version of the European (Standard) French. Further, it's only recognized in Quebec. If you speak Quebecois French in France, you're highly likely to be laughed at... and nobody will understand what you mean.

There are a lot of differences between Quebecois French and Standard (European) French Grammar is different, the vocabulary (lot more anglicisms in the informal vocabulary but less in the formal (Frenchmen truly love their ''stops'' and to go ''shopping'' for instance) and more importantly, the accent.

I strongly encourage you to learn Standard French which is recognized everywhere. On the other hand, Quebecois French will only serve you well in Quebec. Most of the anglos I know are learning Standard French, but since they live in Quebec, they are able to converse in 'Quebecois'.

If you listen to Quebec TV shows or RDS broadcasts and at the same time learning Standard French, you will likely be confused. However, I can say that Pierre Houde (play-by-play announcer at RDS) speaks an excellent French. Sadly, his peers Benoit Brunet (LOL!) and the rest of the RDS crew do not.
Come on French in Quebec and France aren't that different. Some expressions and pronounciations are different, but it's still the same language... Quebec French is by no means a bastardized version.

I'd say a good comparison would be English between the UK and United States.

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Old
01-08-2011, 09:47 AM
  #62
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Come on French in Quebec and France aren't that different. Some expressions and pronounciations are different, but it's still the same language... Quebec French is by no means a bastardized version.
True.

The following is NOT an example of Quebec French : "Yo, man, s'tu fa' à soère?"

People often confuse Quebec French and the low class regional dialects such as, but not limited to, joual. Every country, including France, has those dialects that are almost unintelligible to people from other countries or even to people from other regions within the same country.

Most people speak somewhere between perfect French and the low class dialects. That includes the French. We understand each other just fine for the most part though with the biggest obstacle to mutual comprehension being some words and expressions that do not exist in all dialects of French.


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01-10-2011, 07:53 PM
  #63
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Funny translation

Google automatically translate any french website I go to into english so I can read french articles about the Habs. Just came across this title and lol'd

Hamrlik farts do not burn, but should play

Hamrlik ne pète pas le feu, mais devrait jouer

How would you guys translate it?

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01-10-2011, 08:14 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Hamrlik ne pète pas le feu, mais devrait jouer

How would you guys translate it?
He should play, but he is tired (or sick) and might not be too much energetic.

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01-10-2011, 10:16 PM
  #65
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Most people i know (90%), use proper french. I dont see why some posters are saying that Québec's french is that much different from France's since we learn the EXACT same **** at school. The si j'aurai, sontait and other major grammar mistakes are slowly getting corrected and people who speak that way are mostly uneducated.

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01-11-2011, 12:02 AM
  #66
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Even if some corrected you , I don't think you should say ''considéré comme petit''.
The ''comme'' is useless in this sentence I think , just say ''considéré petit''.

Can't edit: maybe my last post is debatable , is ''comme'' really necessary in this sentence or not? My school is rusty.


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01-11-2011, 01:15 AM
  #67
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Even if some corrected you , I don't think you should say ''considéré comme petit''.
The ''comme'' is useless in this sentence I think , just say ''considéré petit''.

Can't edit: maybe my last post is debatable , is ''comme'' really necessary in this sentence or not? My school is rusty.
not only it isnt necessary but it would be wrong to use it.

Considéré in that sentence is the equivalent of jugé or évalué.

Using comme means you are comparing him to something...

1st -> problem, there's no comparison to anyone/anything in your sentence
2nd -> you're making a judgement on his size or try to compare him ? (if so, compared to... ?). It can be one but not both in that very short sentence

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimkay View Post
That's normal, IMO. Languages do evolve at some point.

As for you OP, Int'l French will serve as foundation if QC French is what you really want to learn.

Theoretically (and I may or may not be right, but that's what I have observed over the years), most of the differences between QC and Int'l French are in the informal dialogue. When writing, grammar and syntax are mostly identical, and so is the vocabulary. The essay that I wrote during the General French Exam in CEGEP (intermediate step between HS and College in Quebec) would probably be graded in a similar fashion in France too. I think, and I am saying this as a native "Standard" (Int'l) French speaker, that most of the differences are in the way people talk in Quebec. Syntax, grammar and especially vocabulary are very different.

And... the more "Quebecois" someone speaks partly has to do with the social standing of that person. Usually, richer, more affluent Quebecers speak a rather soft Quebecois (closer to Int'l French), while the blue-collar, working class, farmers, speak a rather strong one. I guess a similar pattern is also seen in other countries.

Overall, it has more to do with the way you speak than the way you write.
french from France is NOT international french by the way, it's French from France -> nothing more, nothing less.

care to give me examples of the differences in syntax or grammar between Qc french and France french ? you know, what they teach in school

I'm just asking cause quite frankly if the guy goes to a french school he wont have to specify he wants to learn "standard" french, no worries, they wont teach him "si j'arais" or "enweye esti"... otherwise, if it's trough music, TV, etc that he wants to learn... he wont have the option to choose, unless watching TV5 24/7, but then, cant wait for the guy to ask someone where is le drugstore or le market... you know

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01-11-2011, 01:20 AM
  #68
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on a side note, if you have access to TV channels from Qc I'd suggest you start watching news in french...

Years ago I started to learn Italian that way, was watching the news in french first, then switching to Tele-Italia news... within less than a year and without much effort, I developped a good vocabulary... enough to watch news in Italian only, and other programs they had. And enough to understand most of what they were saying when I went to Joe le Roi (restaurant)!

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01-11-2011, 02:04 AM
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Oh and by the way if you don't have any french news on your TV... Try some episode from that website http://www.tou.tv/repertoire . There's some good documentary here like Amour, haine and propagande (Second world war), Les boys (hockey series), 3600 secondes d'extases (so funny but many inside) Crise d'octobre (documentary), Infoman ( funny news) and there's some movie like Nouvelle France, Oliver Twist,


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01-11-2011, 06:51 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs Fan in NJ View Post
Hey guys. I'm currently in my 2nd semester of college, and I'll be moving into French 102.

What would you guys say is the best way to learn French, especially Quebecois French? (is it even that different?) I know nothing comes easy, I just want it to be proficient. I got a B+ in my French 101 class, but I feel like I don't know much more than I did heading into it except for maybe picking up a few words per sentence when reading.

I'd prefer not to spend almost $1000 on software, but if that Rosetta Stone type stuff is good then I guess I'll go for that.
I would recommend watching French movies with subtitles in French just so you can connect what you hear with what it looks like written.

I just started teaching one of my best friends. Gave her my dusty Bescherelle from way back when yesterday.

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01-20-2011, 02:27 AM
  #71
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Learning French?

I am pretty bored at work and I figure I might as well be productive. Is there any programs or what would be the best approach for me to take to learn french? I did do french in elementary/high school but dropped it when I found out it had a public exam haha.Thanks

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01-20-2011, 05:40 AM
  #72
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I am pretty bored at work and I figure I might as well be productive. Is there any programs or what would be the best approach for me to take to learn french? I did do french in elementary/high school but dropped it when I found out it had a public exam haha.Thanks
Same for me. Thanks.

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01-20-2011, 10:14 AM
  #73
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And i'm bored at my job to... (i won't say where I work because you'll be angry) and I wan't to learn spanish... I speak Français, English and Deutsch and I want to tackle Spanish now!

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01-20-2011, 12:33 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by slimkay View Post
Quebecois French is not a language, BTW, it's a dialect. IMO, it's a bastardized version of the European (Standard) French. Further, it's only recognized in Quebec. If you speak Quebecois French in France, you're highly likely to be laughed at... and nobody will understand what you mean.
Spoken like a true world-class snob!

I suppose you speak the proper Queen's english, right? Otherwise I might laugh at you, and Americans, Scots and Aussies as well.

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01-20-2011, 01:49 PM
  #75
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Spoken like a true world-class snob!

I suppose you speak the proper Queen's english, right? Otherwise I might laugh at you, and Americans, Scots and Aussies as well.
If that's all you're taking away from his posts, I can see how you can be offended by his choice of words. If you read the rest, you'll see he's essentially right

It really boils down to your definition of "Quebecois". If you associate Quebecois to "le francais soutenu" (refined French spoken in Quebec) of people like Bernard Derome and Charles Tisseyre, then the differences with written French (which is the same everywhere) are minimal (mostly the accent)

If however your definition of Quebecois is "les tetes a claques", then he's right, it's mostly useful in Quebec. To claim/think otherwise is naive

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