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Old
01-20-2011, 11:28 PM
  #76
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by Patty Ice View Post
There is no decent consolation prize available. He should wait until the deadline to see if one pops up or just play with the hand he has and hope those collective 4 decide to step up simultaneously. This team easily has the talent to make the playoffs but they are NOT a Beauchemin-away from being a Cup favorite. Their chances would remain the same with him, if not worse should they deal a roster player.

More than anything the team just needs their big players to bring their "A" game to the dance...at that point they are as dangerous as any other team in the league.
Well, the fact is -- they need somebody. They'll wait until the deadline, but they will have to make a move if the team doesn't go on an absolute tear in between now and then. Beauchemin would be the ideal guy for them to go after at the deadline if he was available. He'd arguably be their 2nd best defenceman.

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Komi would be an option but not at the amount of years he has on his deal. I'd take him at his price for this year or next but not at 3 more years.
I'm not neccessarily saying that he would be. What I'm saying is that for a team to come up with the ridiculous package it would take to land Luke Schenn, they would have to place a very high value on getting a shutdown d-man (personally what I don't think SJ needs).

They would also have to place a high value on getting a real long term option, and that's not what SJ would do as much as other teams around the league. Their big emphasis would be on the next 1-2 years. Because of that 2nd point, the Sharks are a team that woudl trade for Komisarek more likely than Schenn.


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01-20-2011, 11:42 PM
  #77
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Jfried,

Very simply-
How much of a difference do you believe Beauchmein would make in a Shark cup run?

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01-20-2011, 11:48 PM
  #78
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He'd arguably be their 2nd best defenceman.
Only arguable from your POV. Stop trying to sell us a lame duck (pun very much intended).

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01-20-2011, 11:54 PM
  #79
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Only arguable from your POV. Stop trying to sell us a lame duck (pun very much intended).
Not trying to sell him, simply trying to get Sharks fans to stop horribly underrating him.

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Jfried,

Very simply-
How much of a difference do you believe Beauchmein would make in a Shark cup run?
Problably a fair bit. He'd reduce the icetime of the rest of the blueline, have a positive change of chemisty, and fit very well with the remainder of the Sharks blueline.

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01-20-2011, 11:58 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Not trying to sell him, simply trying to get Sharks fans to stop horribly underrating him.



Problably a fair bit. He'd reduce the icetime of the rest of the blueline, have a positive change of chemisty, and fit very well with the remainder of the Sharks blueline.
No, he'd turn the puck over constantly and do more harm than good. I would rather have Vlasic or Demers out there than Beauchemin, they don't turn the puck over that much and Demers can seriously move the puck.

He's all wrong for us.

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01-21-2011, 12:06 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Not trying to sell him, simply trying to get Sharks fans to stop horribly underrating him.
I admit I underrate him (as much as you overrate him), he could help the bottom pairings for sure and even fill-in a top 4 role but there are a few problems.

Namely, his salary...Sharks already have quite a few overpaid players and two of them are on the blueline that I'd Beauch just a notch above (actually Huskins' deal isn't as bad his when you compare ability vs $$$).

Another is your ridiculous price for him...I realize you're not the GM of the Leafs but just having to reading those posts is insulting to me. I know you don't want Gooch so I won't get into that but Clowe or a 1st round pick is ludicrous when you look at the current marketplace for defencemen of his caliber.

You want a 3rd rounder and a decent prospect...cool...I can stomach that. I could probably even stomach a 2nd rounder straightup.

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01-21-2011, 12:09 AM
  #82
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No, he'd turn the puck over constantly and do more harm than good. I would rather have Vlasic or Demers out there than Beauchemin, they don't turn the puck over that much and Demers can seriously move the puck.

He's all wrong for us.
Not outside of Toronto. The Leafs turnovers are systemic, you can tell by the fact that they have so many accross the board.

Who outside of the organization do you think is right for you?

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I admit I underrate him (as much as you overrate him), he could help the bottom pairings for sure and even fill-in a top 4 role but there are a few problems.

Namely, his salary...Sharks already have quite a few overpaid players and two of them are on the blueline that I'd Beauch just a notch above (actually Huskins' deal isn't as bad his when you compare ability vs $$$).

Another is your ridiculous price for him...I realize you're not the GM of the Leafs but just having to reading those posts is insulting to me. I know you don't want Gooch so I won't get into that but Clowe or a 1st round pick is ludicrous when you look at the current marketplace for defencemen of his caliber.
I'm not overrating him, I'm simply calling him for the #2/3 versatile two-way defenceman that he is -- currently playing the role of #1 in Toronto. Beauchemin is far from overpaid, especially with the way the UFA market has taken off.

Who do you think is available that is a defenceman of his calibre? Which one comes with a year remaining at less than he would recieve in UFA?

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01-21-2011, 12:10 AM
  #83
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Beauchemin is a fine top 4 defenseman. Players in Toronto's mistakes always get exagerrted.


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01-21-2011, 12:13 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Not outside of Toronto. The Leafs turnovers are systemic, you can tell by the fact that they have so many accross the board.

Who outside of the organization do you think is right for you?



I'm not overrating him, I'm simply calling him for the #2/3 versatile two-way defenceman that he is -- currently playing the role of #1 in Toronto. Beauchemin is far from overpaid, especially with the way the UFA market has taken off.

Who do you think is available that is a defenceman of his calibre? Which one comes with a year remaining at less than he would recieve in UFA?
Discounting availability (since we don't know who or what is available anyway) the kind of player we need is a Brent Burns type player. Two-way, good skating, puck moving reliable in every situation guy.

I doubt we'll get a player as good as Burns, but a player in that mold is what we need.

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01-21-2011, 12:19 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
and fit very well with the remainder of the Sharks blueline.
It's amazing and somewhat embarassing that no matter how many times every Shark fan tells you that Beauchemin would not be a good fit on the Sharks, you keep thinking he would be. I guess you know more about the Sharks than the entire Sharks fan base on here.

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01-21-2011, 12:22 AM
  #86
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It's amazing and somewhat embarassing that no matter how many times every Shark fan tells you that Beauchemin would not be a good fit on the Sharks, you keep thinking he would be. I guess you know more about the Sharks than the entire Sharks fan base on here.
Yeah because Shark fans think Beauchemin is terrible, which is laughable.

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01-21-2011, 12:24 AM
  #87
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Discounting availability (since we don't know who or what is available anyway) the kind of player we need is a Brent Burns type player. Two-way, good skating, puck moving reliable in every situation guy.

I doubt we'll get a player as good as Burns, but a player in that mold is what we need.
Fully agree on Brent Burns, and Beauchemin is a very similar style defenceman. Two-way, good skating, puck moving reliable in every situation guy. Burns is obviously better, and unavailable.

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It's amazing and somewhat embarassing that no matter how many times every Shark fan tells you that Beauchemin would not be a good fit on the Sharks, you keep thinking he would be. I guess you know more about the Sharks than the entire Sharks fan base on here.
It's amazing how many sharks fans can be completely inconsistent with their desires for a defenceman. Rather than simply saying that you think a defenceman that you see once a year is a poor fit, I'd like to know what kind of defenceman you think you need. My impression is that the Sharks need a two-way guy who can play in all situations, am I wrong?

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01-21-2011, 12:25 AM
  #88
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I think, as Sharks fan, you should also keep in mind that Ron Wilson's system tends to highlight shortcomings of defensive players while suppressing their positive attributes...Beauchemin isn't the best thing since sliced bread, but he's a serviceable top four d-man that is stuck in a bad situation.

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01-21-2011, 12:26 AM
  #89
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Yeah because Shark fans think Beauchemin is terrible, which is laughable.
I don't recall anybody saying he's terrible unless they were exaggerating or just trying to go with the flow on here. He's a top 4 defenseman, but not the top 4 defenseman the Sharks need which is what everybody has been trying to get across to Leaf fans. He doesn't offer a significant upgrade to the defense enough to where the Sharks would give up valuable assets and he doesn't give them a highly capable PMD that can play defense at an above average level.

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01-21-2011, 12:26 AM
  #90
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Fully agree on Brent Burns, and Beauchemin is a very similar style defenceman. Two-way, good skating, puck moving reliable in every situation guy. Burns is obviously better, and unavailable.
What similarities do Beauchemin and Burns share, other than their position? That is a terrible comparison.

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01-21-2011, 12:28 AM
  #91
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Yeah because Shark fans think Beauchemin is terrible, which is laughable.
He is terrible. What's laughable is people like you think he's a #3 defenseman. He's a turnover machine - don't try and tell me otherwise. I can see for myself how terrible Beauchemin is. Even watching highlights, I see him making mistakes that most rookies in this league would not make. He constantly gets caught on odd-man rushes, makes horrid passes up the middle of his own zone, and has constant trouble clearing his own zone.

That pairing itself is an avalanche of defensive mistakes and bad reads. They were running around their zone tonight like chickens with their heads cut off.

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01-21-2011, 12:30 AM
  #92
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He is terrible. What's laughable is people like you think he's a #3 defenseman. He's a turnover machine - don't try and tell me otherwise. I can see for myself how terrible Beauchemin is. Even watching highlights, I see him making mistakes that most rookies in this league would not make. He constantly gets caught on odd-man rushes, makes horrid passes up the middle of his own zone, and has constant trouble clearing his own zone.

That pairing itself is an avalanche of defensive mistakes and bad reads. They were running around their zone tonight like chickens with their heads cut off.
He's a guy who was #1 in ice-time on a cup winner. The guy is a solid top 4 defenseman.

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01-21-2011, 12:31 AM
  #93
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Beauchemin would be a marginal upgrade on what the Sharks already have. Then you take into account Burke's hard-on for the guy and you're looking at a horrible value for San Jose.

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01-21-2011, 12:33 AM
  #94
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He is terrible. What's laughable is people like you think he's a #3 defenseman. He's a turnover machine - don't try and tell me otherwise. I can see for myself how terrible Beauchemin is. Even watching highlights, I see him making mistakes that most rookies in this league would not make. He constantly gets caught on odd-man rushes, makes horrid passes up the middle of his own zone, and has constant trouble clearing his own zone.

That pairing itself is an avalanche of defensive mistakes and bad reads. They were running around their zone tonight like chickens with their heads cut off.
Weren't you the troll who criticized Beauchemin for turnovers then praised Kaberle/Schenn in the same sentence?

He gets caught on odd-man rushes, usually being the only man back because Phaneuf went for an adventure. He's forced to try and pass the puck up the middle, because Toronto's forwards are not big enough to win board battles.

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What similarities do Beauchemin and Burns share, other than their position? That is a terrible comparison.
Style of play. They are both extremely versatile two-way defencemen who have very few flaws, but aren't really elite in any single department. Burns is obviously better and unavailable.

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01-21-2011, 12:33 AM
  #95
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Did jfried just say that Beauchemin and Burns are comparable?

You're worse than I thought.

Try watching some Wild hockey. Burns is far superior to Beauchemin in everything that he does. He's actually capable of clearing his own zone once in a while. He also makes smart, crisp passes up the boards, while Beauchemin makes soft passes up the slot, right on the tape....of the other teams forwards.

And don't even compare them offensively. Beauchemin has an above-average shot. That's about it. Burns has twice as many goals in about 60 more games. Burns is so much better than Beauchemin offensively it's laughable. He has a rocket shot, unparalleled vision, and unreal hands for a defenseman. Beauchemin has none of these traits.

Yet again, though, jfried will continue to spew his garbage whilst everyone insists he's wrong.

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01-21-2011, 12:33 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Fully agree on Brent Burns, and Beauchemin is a very similar style defenceman. Two-way, good skating, puck moving reliable in every situation guy. Burns is obviously better, and unavailable.



It's amazing how many sharks fans can be completely inconsistent with their desires for a defenceman. Rather than simply saying that you think a defenceman that you see once a year is a poor fit, I'd like to know what kind of defenceman you think you need. My impression is that the Sharks need a two-way guy who can play in all situations, am I wrong?
Burns and Beauchemin are nothing alike. You claim Beauch is suffering under Toronto, but the LAST thing we need is someone who turns the puck over, and we can't take that chance. He leads the league in turnovers last I checked. Sure he'd be better in SJ, he'd have to be, he literally can't be worse in that particular category.

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01-21-2011, 12:34 AM
  #97
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He's a guy who was #1 in ice-time on a cup winner. The guy is a solid top 4 defenseman.
Besides the fact that I'm not even sure the 1st part is true, that was 4 years ago. Players decline, and Beauchemin has been terrible for 2 years now.

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01-21-2011, 12:36 AM
  #98
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Burns and Beauchemin are nothing alike. You claim Beauch is suffering under Toronto, but the LAST thing we need is someone who turns the puck over, and we can't take that chance. He leads the league in turnovers last I checked. Sure he'd be better in SJ, he'd have to be, he literally can't be worse in that particular category.
Burns & Beauchemin are absolutely alike in terms of style of play and relative strengths/weaknesses. Beauch is suffering from Toronto, and that wouldn't happen in SJ with their large forward group. SJ can play a dump & chase game, which allows them to support the puck much better than Toronto does. He'd also play a ton with Boyle (a good puckmover) or Demers/Wallin/Huskins, all of whom are better puckmovers than Phaneuf.

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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Did jfried just say that Beauchemin and Burns are comparable?

You're worse than I thought.

Try watching some Wild hockey. Burns is far superior to Beauchemin in everything that he does. He's actually capable of clearing his own zone once in a while. He also makes smart, crisp passes up the boards, while Beauchemin makes soft passes up the slot, right on the tape....of the other teams forwards.

And don't even compare them offensively. Beauchemin has an above-average shot. That's about it. Burns has twice as many goals in about 60 more games. Burns is so much better than Beauchemin offensively it's laughable. He has a rocket shot, unparalleled vision, and unreal hands for a defenseman. Beauchemin has none of these traits.

Yet again, though, jfried will continue to spew his garbage whilst everyone insists he's wrong.
They are absolutely comparable in terms of style and relative strenghts / weaknesses. Burns is a superior defencmean in every regard, which is why he's unavailable. Beauchemin has an extremely good shot, Toronto just doesn't generate traffic infront of the net.

Yet again, though, brian boyle will continue to spew his garbage whilst everyone insists he's wrong.

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Besides the fact that I'm not even sure the 1st part is true, that was 4 years ago. Players decline, and Beauchemin has been terrible for 2 years now.
Those 2 years happen to be the same time period in which he's played for a Toronto team with crap goaltending where he's had to be the #1 defenceman.

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01-21-2011, 12:40 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Burns & Beauchemin are absolutely alike in terms of style of play and relative strengths/weaknesses. Beauch is suffering from Toronto, and that wouldn't happen in SJ with their large forward group. SJ can play a dump & chase game, which allows them to support the puck much better than Toronto does. He'd also play a ton with Boyle (a good puckmover) or Demers/Wallin/Huskins, all of whom are better puckmovers than Phaneuf.
Put down the pipe. Burns is a force offensively, 13 goals already this year. You're living in the past with the Beauchemin you keep describing. Even in his prime, Beauch didn't have near the offensive skills Burns has.

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01-21-2011, 12:42 AM
  #100
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Put down the pipe. Burns is a force offensively, 13 goals already this year. You're living in the past with the Beauchemin you keep describing. Even in his prime, Beauch didn't have near the offensive skills Burns has.
I never said he did. I said they are comparable in terms of style and RELATIVE skillsets. Burns is a much better defenceman in every regard. They are similar in the sense that they are both versatile all-around two-way defencemen.

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