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Old
01-21-2011, 07:02 PM
  #26
Andre Benoit Bawls
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
It's not comparable to Cowen + 2nd.

It's comparable to Eaves + 2nd or Foligno + 2nd or another middle to late 1st round pick.

I don't have a problem with either of the above for Hamhuis.


EDIT: To be clear, I also think Scott Glennie, due to size, is less likely to be an impact player (despite his high draft ranking). I also think the asking price for Chris Phillips will be a prospect of that caliber at minimum.
Foligno+2nd for Hamhuis is pretty bad, but in no way is it the same. Glennie as drafted 8th overall as a project and hes still a good player. Cowen was drafted 9th in the same draft and while he may have usurped Glennie, saying the two aren't comparable is Ludacris and Jay-Z.

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Old
01-21-2011, 07:02 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by TDIR8 View Post
Why would the Stars ever do that deal?

I don't mind that deal at all from either stand point.

Many people think that Glennie will be decent and a 3rd should be conditional unless Phillips doesn't resign with the club.

Great trade from both sides.

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Old
01-21-2011, 07:06 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
Foligno+2nd for Hamhuis is pretty bad, but in no way is it the same. Glennie as drafted 8th overall as a project and hes still a good player. Cowen was drafted 9th in the same draft and while he may have usurped Glennie, saying the two aren't comparable is Ludacris and Jay-Z.
To be clear, when I first read your reply, due to the Nashville comment, I was thinking of Watson (not Glennie). Watson is a 16-20 pick if memory serves.

Generally I agree that Glennie is a better prospect then Watson... but the mere fact he was drafted 8th doesn't mean he's automatically the same as Cowen.... Cowen would have gone higher but for an injury he has since recovered from. He could have gone the other way and regressed, he didn't. There are plenty of high draft picks (such as Lee) who become serviceable NHLers but aren't worthy of their status. Others (like Brendl) end up as almost total busts.

I agree that it's a high price for a rental, but given Dallas' need for defensive help, I wouldn't be surprised to see Glennie coming our way at the deadline. That's the type of player you see traded - just like when we dealt Gleason for Smolinski.

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Old
01-21-2011, 07:11 PM
  #29
SaintAnton
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Neil might be better off with the habs/oilers/thrashers than philly

Campoli to Dallas probably makes more sense.

Need $ back from Nashville I'm guessing if they take Fisher

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Old
01-21-2011, 07:14 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
To be clear, when I first read your reply, due to the Nashville comment, I was thinking of Watson (not Glennie). Watson is a 16-20 pick if memory serves.

Generally I agree that Glennie is a better prospect then Watson... but the mere fact he was drafted 8th doesn't mean he's automatically the same as Cowen.... Cowen would have gone higher but for an injury he has since recovered from. He could have gone the other way and regressed, he didn't. There are plenty of high draft picks (such as Lee) who become serviceable NHLers but aren't worthy of their status. Others (like Brendl) end up as almost total busts.

I agree that it's a high price for a rental, but given Dallas' need for defensive help, I wouldn't be surprised to see Glennie coming our way at the deadline. That's the type of player you see traded - just like when we dealt Gleason for Smolinski.
Post-lockout trading vs Pre-lockout trading

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Old
01-21-2011, 07:14 PM
  #31
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as much as i think neil fits the description of a tough as nails flyer they dont need him or have room for him.

the bruins dont have a 2nd if im not mistaken (maybe its a 3rd rounder im thinking of) other than MIN 2nd which is absolutely a no go for campoli seeing as it will be rather high

cant see you getting glennie for a ufa either...ever

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Old
01-21-2011, 07:15 PM
  #32
Lord Ahriman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Uh huh. I'm sure he'll just forget how to play hockey in Boston.
He wouldn't be a top 4 here. What's your problem to understand that? We need a true top 4 PMD, not another #5/6 playing big minutes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktown Sens Fan 19 View Post
Yeah, because we don't have a clue about a player that we watch every game, meanwhile somebody who I'm guessing gets to view him less then 10 games per year (if that) has a more informed opinion.
So I think the same thought can be said about you, isn't? Because you clearly don't know our defense.

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Old
01-21-2011, 07:16 PM
  #33
8BostonRocker24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Danglefest View Post
as much as i think neil fits the description of a tough as nails flyer they dont need him or have room for him.

the bruins dont have a 2nd if im not mistaken (maybe its a 3rd rounder im thinking of) other than MIN 2nd which is absolutely a no go for campoli seeing as it will be rather high

cant see you getting glennie for a ufa either...ever
Boston has Minnesota's 2nd and their own 2nd.

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Old
01-21-2011, 07:31 PM
  #34
Dr Danglefest
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Boston has Minnesota's 2nd and their own 2nd.
okay as soon as i typed it it sounded wrong perhaps its our 3rd we dont have?

and regardless we wouldnt give a 2nd rounder for campoli

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Old
01-21-2011, 08:06 PM
  #35
8BostonRocker24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Danglefest View Post
okay as soon as i typed it it sounded wrong perhaps its our 3rd we dont have?

and regardless we wouldnt give a 2nd rounder for campoli
Round 1:
Bruins
Maple Leafs

Round 2
Bruins
Wild

Round 3
Coyotes - Traded Derek Morris to Coyotes for 2011 conditional pick (third round if Morris re-signs with Coyotes after 2009-10 season, else fourth round) on 2010-03-03

Round 4
Bruins

Round 5
Bruins

Round 6
Bruins

Round 7
Panthers - Traded Jeff LoVecchio, Jordan Knackstedt to Panthers for Sean Zimmerman, 2011 conditional seventh round pick on 2010-12-09


Chicago has our 7th
Florida has our 3rd



I will agree I wouldn't trade a 2nd (any 2nd) for Campoli, he's a 5th defenseman on an awful defensive team. He doesn't even crack Boston's line-up.

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Old
01-21-2011, 10:30 PM
  #36
Seabound117
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Not bad but I disagree with a couple of your options and I guess it depends if your are completely abandoning the season detonating and waiting for the draft or if your want to put parts into place now and then start next season a a good clip as opposed to a dead stop with another year of growth and low productivity to look forward to.


But let me throw an option or three around if I may:

To WSH: Chris Kelly, Matt Carkner, Brian Elliott, Milan Michalek
To OTT: Matthieu Perrault, Jeff Shultz, Michal Neuvirth, 2nd

Gives Washington 2-3 line center, more defensive physicality, playoff experienced goaltending (cheaper than many of Washington's other options). Gives Ottawa a youth movement w/ stable goaltending.

I am not a UFA/RFA expert by any means and my knowledge is limited to NSH, WAS, and OTT rosters. I am aware Ottawa is hampered in their options by Kuba's contract and their efforts to move Ruutu as well as the so far unproductive Gonchar signing. And I am not a cap hit expert so I am unaware if this would even be possible. However this would buy Ottawa more time agewise to rebuild without leaving next season to the wolves and would provide Washington a valid 2-3rd line winger and PK center who both can provide offensive upticks which the Caps need right now. Despite Caps fan's arguments to the contrary I value Carkner higher than King on the goon meter especially since Carkner could play game in game out for us without sacraficing a forward position. This does hurt Ottawa on the offensive side but an aggressive salary dump could possible make room for UFAs like Justin Williams etc.

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Old
01-21-2011, 10:35 PM
  #37
NJDevils66621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabound117 View Post
Not bad but I disagree with a couple of your options and I guess it depends if your are completely abandoning the season detonating and waiting for the draft or if your want to put parts into place now and then start next season a a good clip as opposed to a dead stop with another year of growth and low productivity to look forward to.


But let me throw an option or three around if I may:

To WSH: Chris Kelly, Matt Carkner, Brian Elliott, Milan Michalek
To OTT: Matthieu Perrault, Jeff Shultz, Michal Neuvirth, 2nd

Gives Washington 2-3 line center, more defensive physicality, playoff experienced goaltending (cheaper than many of Washington's other options). Gives Ottawa a youth movement w/ stable goaltending.

I am not a UFA/RFA expert by any means and my knowledge is limited to NSH, WAS, and OTT rosters. I am aware Ottawa is hampered in their options by Kuba's contract and their efforts to move Ruutu as well as the so far unproductive Gonchar signing. And I am not a cap hit expert so I am unaware if this would even be possible. However this would buy Ottawa more time agewise to rebuild without leaving next season to the wolves and would provide Washington a valid 2-3rd line winger and PK center who both can provide offensive upticks which the Caps need right now. Despite Caps fan's arguments to the contrary I value Carkner higher than King on the goon meter especially since Carkner could play game in game out for us without sacraficing a forward position. This does hurt Ottawa on the offensive side but an aggressive salary dump could possible make room for UFAs like Justin Williams etc.
WASH DOESNT WANT SCRAPS

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Old
01-21-2011, 10:44 PM
  #38
Seabound117
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Originally Posted by NJDevils66621 View Post
WASH DOESNT WANT SCRAPS
Maybe not but I have seen enough of Matt Carkner and Chris Kelly to believe they are both significant improvements or Perrault and Shultz.

Also I have watched our offense evaporate against weaker oppoents far too often so I that means we sac draft positions to bring in a winger like Michalek than I have no issue there. Also everyone insists we need experienced goaltending and Elliott was impressive in the playoffs and Neuvirth has far too much value to wither away playing second fiddle to Varlamov.

But all homer ranting aside, I just want Matt Carkner in a Caps jersey =/

Steve Sullivan too but at his age he is closer to retirement than relevance at this point.

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Old
01-22-2011, 08:36 AM
  #39
SixthSens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktown Sens Fan 19 View Post
Yeah, because we don't have a clue about a player that we watch every game, meanwhile somebody who I'm guessing gets to view him less then 10 games per year (if that) has a more informed opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ahriman View Post
So I think the same thought can be said about you, isn't? Because you clearly don't know our defense.
Where did I state that I knew anything about Boston's defense? I was simply backing Pyke's statement in that Campoli is playing in our top-four because he's earned it with his play, not because of how ****** the team has played this year.

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Old
01-22-2011, 08:50 AM
  #40
SpezDispenser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJDevils66621 View Post
WASH DOESNT WANT SCRAPS
Scraps? That deal was specifically designed for a contender, you either don't know the players involved or didn't put enough thought into it.

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Old
01-22-2011, 08:52 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabound117 View Post
Not bad but I disagree with a couple of your options and I guess it depends if your are completely abandoning the season detonating and waiting for the draft or if your want to put parts into place now and then start next season a a good clip as opposed to a dead stop with another year of growth and low productivity to look forward to.


But let me throw an option or three around if I may:

To WSH: Chris Kelly, Matt Carkner, Brian Elliott, Milan Michalek
To OTT: Matthieu Perrault, Jeff Shultz, Michal Neuvirth, 2nd

Gives Washington 2-3 line center, more defensive physicality, playoff experienced goaltending (cheaper than many of Washington's other options). Gives Ottawa a youth movement w/ stable goaltending.

I am not a UFA/RFA expert by any means and my knowledge is limited to NSH, WAS, and OTT rosters. I am aware Ottawa is hampered in their options by Kuba's contract and their efforts to move Ruutu as well as the so far unproductive Gonchar signing. And I am not a cap hit expert so I am unaware if this would even be possible. However this would buy Ottawa more time agewise to rebuild without leaving next season to the wolves and would provide Washington a valid 2-3rd line winger and PK center who both can provide offensive upticks which the Caps need right now. Despite Caps fan's arguments to the contrary I value Carkner higher than King on the goon meter especially since Carkner could play game in game out for us without sacraficing a forward position. This does hurt Ottawa on the offensive side but an aggressive salary dump could possible make room for UFAs like Justin Williams etc.
It's not a bad proposal, but I'm not sure Ottawa is ready to give up on Michalek. How about

To Was
Matt Carkner
Brian Elliott
Mike Fisher

To OTT
Marcus Johansson
Jeff Shultz
Michal Neuvirth

Similar deal to the last one, but you get a huge upgrade with Fisher over Kelly. Not sure if Ott adds, but that is what I came up with

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Old
01-22-2011, 12:22 PM
  #42
Gardner McKay
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Evgeny Grachev + Valentenko + Gilroy(Rfa at end of the year and we would have too many defenseman otherwise) +2nd for Phillips?

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Old
01-22-2011, 01:53 PM
  #43
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Is Erskine injured? Why would Washington want him and Carkner on their defensive core? It's like having a RH and LH version of the same player on the bottom pair. The same slow player.

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Old
01-22-2011, 05:40 PM
  #44
Seabound117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilfred View Post
It's not a bad proposal, but I'm not sure Ottawa is ready to give up on Michalek. How about

To Was
Matt Carkner
Brian Elliott
Mike Fisher

To OTT
Marcus Johansson
Jeff Shultz
Michal Neuvirth

Similar deal to the last one, but you get a huge upgrade with Fisher over Kelly. Not sure if Ott adds, but that is what I came up with
I would think at this point Washington like what they see more from MoJo than MP85 if you were to offer that Perrault, Shultz, and Neuvirth I would be happy. And The reason I targeted Kelly was for his SHG potential which is always a good thing given Carks racking up the PIMs.

And to answer ther follow up post about Erskine, Yes Erskine is a better D-Man but Carkner brings a rep for face smashing which in that little way discourage some of the late hits on Ovie and Backs. So in short, I want Carkner because IMO he is a better enforcer than King or Erskine in the fisticuffs department, and Hendricks and Brads are too valuable to the team to be forced to avenge every slight, I want the nasty rep ergo I trade for it.

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Old
01-22-2011, 08:22 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintMorose View Post
Neil might be better off with the habs/oilers/thrashers than philly

Campoli to Dallas probably makes more sense.

Need $ back from Nashville I'm guessing if they take Fisher
ok, we lost 4M last summer with Heatley. just send 2M and we have a deal


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