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At What Point Does DL Make a Move

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Old
01-21-2011, 03:10 PM
  #26
spudboy
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Bring Scott Barney back and his -6:
Scott Barney R 22 9 9 18 18 -6 1979-03-27 31 Oshawa, ONT 6.04 225

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01-21-2011, 03:22 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Uh, because considering Parse's experience and talent level he was the best player available in the system.
Yous say that like an excuse or something.
I would point exactly this out as an Gm issue.

This time i'm with you. We just can't make a move here.
And i'm happy with not making some other temas happy and think Parse brings something to the team.

But what i'm really puking about are players like: Gaborik, Heatley, Kovalchuk.
These guys were available and he didn't get anything done because something was raising red flags.

If you are always doign the obvious things and always doing the absolutely safe things you won't reach anything else than mediocre stuff.

This is what where we want to go away from desperately and thta leaves us 2 choices. The GM changes his mind or we need another GM. There is nothing between.

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01-21-2011, 03:22 PM
  #28
hauspaint
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudboy View Post
Bring Scott Barney back and his -6:
Scott Barney R 22 9 9 18 18 -6 1979-03-27 31 Oshawa, ONT 6.04 225
hey..., I have a puck that's signed by him... I thought he was going to be a great power forward for Kings at that time...and my puck would worth a lot of money...

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01-21-2011, 03:28 PM
  #29
hauspaint
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I completely agree that Dl shouldn't make a move just to make a move. and that's even for coaching change. It is fine that he wants to stick with current roster and coaching step and the system..
My question is how is he going to help the "young" core figure out? Is he doing something that fans should not know about? Or is that even his job?

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01-21-2011, 03:38 PM
  #30
Herby
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
DL doesn't do panic trades. He didn't in San Jose, and he's given no indication he'll do so here.
And what kind of success did it get him in San Jose?

Why do fans and Lombardi himself continue to harp back to his days in SJ when the team never made it out of the second round and lost more games than they won. I feel like Ken Lay talking about the good old days in Houston.

Not every trade is a panic trade, the Kings season is falling apart and perhaps a shakeup would be in order, either with the player personnel or the coaches. But what do I know, this team has PLENTY of skill to win and win big, isn't that what you told me?

@Kings17, Fleischman would have cost the Kings JJ? Please tell me you don't honestly think that, maybe Matt Greene and a pick. Fleischman looked pretty solid with the Avs before getting hurt. But we know, Fleischman isn't a Lombardi player and Greene provides grit and character blah blah blah

But in all honestly I agree with you guys, it's way to late to make a significant move, no band-aid ex-Flyer or Shark is going to mask the cancer Lombardi has on his hands right now, it's far to late to save this team this season. This team sucks and can't score because of moves made and not made 1, 2 and 3 years ago. The best thing to happen now would be to just crap the bed on the long trip and end up with a top 8 pick (or better) and draft the most talented winger available, although knowing Dean it's time to start scouting centers and defenseman.

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01-21-2011, 03:45 PM
  #31
Flour Child
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post

@Kings17, Fleischman would have cost the Kings JJ? Please tell me you don't honestly think that, maybe Matt Greene and a pick. Fleischman looked pretty solid with the Avs before getting hurt. But we know, Fleischman isn't a Lombardi player and Greene provides grit and character blah blah blah

.
Rumor has it the Kings were in on Fleishman, a deal was centered about Drewiske going the other way. A deal was pretty much agreed upon and either Colorado outbid the Kings at the last second or McPhee reneged on the deal.
Note: Sturm was acquired almost immediately afterward


Also note that Fleishman is now on long term IR and out for the season with a blood clots in his lungs
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=350320


Last edited by Flour Child: 01-21-2011 at 04:04 PM.
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Old
01-21-2011, 03:53 PM
  #32
AKAY47
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@Herby

Who did you want before we hired Dean Lombardi? Mike Murphy?

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Old
01-21-2011, 03:55 PM
  #33
hauspaint
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Would you guys consider Sturm as a panic move or a well thought out scheduled move or just an opportunity that came to DL's way?

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Old
01-21-2011, 03:56 PM
  #34
KINGS17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
And what kind of success did it get him in San Jose?

Why do fans and Lombardi himself continue to harp back to his days in SJ when the team never made it out of the second round and lost more games than they won. I feel like Ken Lay talking about the good old days in Houston.

Not every trade is a panic trade, the Kings season is falling apart and perhaps a shakeup would be in order, either with the player personnel or the coaches. But what do I know, this team has PLENTY of skill to win and win big, isn't that what you told me?

@Kings17, Fleischman would have cost the Kings JJ? Please tell me you don't honestly think that, maybe Matt Greene and a pick. Fleischman looked pretty solid with the Avs before getting hurt. But we know, Fleischman isn't a Lombardi player and Greene provides grit and character blah blah blah

But in all honestly I agree with you guys, it's way to late to make a significant move, no band-aid ex-Flyer or Shark is going to mask the cancer Lombardi has on his hands right now, it's far to late to save this team this season. This team sucks and can't score because of moves made and not made 1, 2 and 3 years ago. The best thing to happen now would be to just crap the bed on the long trip and end up with a top 8 pick (or better) and draft the most talented winger available, although knowing Dean it's time to start scouting centers and defenseman.
Flash likely would have cost Greene after Hannan was on the table. Debatable if that would have been a good move. I believe Dean would see losing Greene as opening up a hole in the roster and in the room.

I don't consider Flash to be the kind of player the OP was looking for, but hey I don't think the OP knows what he is looking for.

You always take the best player available in the draft. Now if you want to talk about trading a couple of picks and prospects for an NHL top 6 wing, oh wait we already covered that.

Seriously, it's time to maybe move a young defenseman in a deal that nets you a very good AHL LW prospect from a team that has an oversupply. I haven't studied that scenario enough to know which teams would make good trading partners.

Back when Lombardi first arrived and the defense was a waste land, I suggested around these parts moving Cammalleri and a high pick to Nashville for Suter and it got a lot of positive response from Preds fans.

Anyway long story longer, a couple years after Lombardi sent Mike on his merry way, I mentioned that idea to Dean and he told me Nashville would never have made that deal. So what we think might be feasible, isn't a lot of the time.

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Old
01-21-2011, 04:08 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by nki View Post
So essentially Parse was his only option for a top 6 winger? How did it come to that point?
By not signing either MacArthur, Torres, or that one other guy who's name escapes me.

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Old
01-21-2011, 04:15 PM
  #36
KINGS17
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Originally Posted by hauspaint View Post
Would you guys consider Sturm as a panic move or a well thought out scheduled move or just an opportunity that came to DL's way?
Free player, no risk.

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01-21-2011, 04:17 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hauspaint View Post
Would you guys consider Sturm as a panic move or a well thought out scheduled move or just an opportunity that came to DL's way?
the Marco Sturm acquisition to me just seemed like another impulse move by Dean Lombardi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmjt9864 View Post
in terms of a move ... well even fire the freakin' coach

get some balls DL ... that is your job to right the ship .. patience is great but i think we all have been patience since you got there ..
Didn't DL say they were all in it together or something like that(I just skimmed through the interview, so I can't remember). Maybe if coaching staff goes, Dean goes as well? you just never with the ownership!

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Old
01-21-2011, 04:18 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
@Herby

Who did you want before we hired Dean Lombardi? Mike Murphy?
I had no preference and honestly didn't hate the Lombardi hire at the time. I knew he had done a pretty poor job results wise in SJ but even one year into the new NHL it was pretty obvious things were going to change so I was open to giving him a chance to succeed here, I knew he was on the younger side so maybe he would be a forward thinker and would thrive in the "new" NHL.

I thought early on he made some nice moves and I had some real hope. I was happy he addressed the goaltending issue by taking Bernier, I liked the Demitra trade because the Kings were picking up a high end talent in POS, didn't like the Lewis pick but was more happy getting POS than the pick. The JJ trade was a great move, again adding a high end piece with star potential. The cost was significant as Gleason is an excellent d-man and Belanger is an excellent 3rd line player. I liked his first coaching hire because I think an offensive thinking system like Crawford's will do better in the new NHL. The Blake and Cloutier signings turned out to be a disaster but really only cost the Kings draft picks, which the team had plenty of. Even the Hickey pick, while I use it to argue about Dean's bias against drafting wingers was not a bad gamble to take.

My opinion of Lombardi began to change after the 08 season. Within a week's span the Kings traded IMO their 2nd and 3rd most talented players + a 1st rnd pick, both players drafted and developed by the Kings and in return they acquired a 3rd line center, a 3rd pairing d-man drafted another defenseman with very little upside who projected as a physical 4,5,6 d-man type. This is when I seriously began to question what kind of team Dean Lombardi was trying to build here, but even then I was willing to give Dean the benefit of the doubt. Nearly three years later and the Kings still lack what those two players brought to the table. Dean has never replaced Cammalleri on the first line and while the Kings have DD and JJ they still sorely lacked another veteran puck moving d-man (see the Kings going for Martin). Stoll is a good 3rd line center and Greene is a good 3rd pairing d-man who everyone seems to love, the problem is in the Chicago model (which I think is clearly the way to go) players like this need to be drafted and developed or signed as UFA to fill the holes, in the new NHL you cannot trade a star player for players like this, same thing goes with Teubert, a player of his skill set cannot be acquired by giving up a 35 goal scorer. Teams who make moves like this are doomed in this system. The final nail in the coffin was hiring Terry Murray to coach the team, Terry Murray is the definition of old style dead puck hockey, and here we were hiring him in 2008 to coach our team.

The writing has been on the wall with this team for quite some time, I tried to warn people about this over the summer, this team had a drastic drastic lack of talent up front, and that was assuming a guy like Handzus was going to keep his pace. The fact that he hasn't, further highlights the massive problems with this roster.

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Old
01-21-2011, 04:54 PM
  #39
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Since DL isnt going make any moves, he should atleast hold a meeting with the players and coaching staff and get everyone on the right page.

Something has to be done one way or another. This team seems out of control... idk im running out of ideas and patience !!

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01-21-2011, 05:23 PM
  #40
Josh Deitell
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Originally Posted by banksy View Post
Since DL isnt going make any moves, he should atleast hold a meeting with the players and coaching staff and get everyone on the right page.

Something has to be done one way or another. This team seems out of control... idk im running out of ideas and patience !!
I'm sure these closed door meetings, with the coaches in particular, have been happening very frequently of late.

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Old
01-21-2011, 05:46 PM
  #41
RAZZIE King
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I say his next move would be calling in for a Brinks truck to move 50K in pennies to the NHL head office...

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01-21-2011, 06:08 PM
  #42
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February 10th they start a 3 game trip against Pitts, Philly and Washington. If we are more then 5 points out by the start, We should start selling

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01-21-2011, 06:09 PM
  #43
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This point, right here -> .

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Old
01-21-2011, 06:27 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by funky View Post
February 10th they start a 3 game trip against Pitts, Philly and Washington. If we are more then 5 points out by the start, We should start selling
I'm curious on why people believe we should start selling?

Why and who would we sell? All the people outside our core players won't yield us anything but more later round picks or average prospects.

Unless we sell some of our kids it won't do us any good this season and a few more beyond that.

The only assets that would yield a decent return are Williams, stoll, or Simmonds. If they all go , then we just hurt our depth for Next season. Either way none of them will be able to fetch a return that will fill our holes.

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01-21-2011, 06:30 PM
  #45
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This point, right here -> .
lol

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Old
01-21-2011, 06:37 PM
  #46
KINGS17
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Originally Posted by scramble91 View Post
I'm curious on why people believe we should start selling?

Why and who would we sell? All the people outside our core players won't yield us anything but more later round picks or average prospects.

Unless we sell some of our kids it won't do us any good this season and a few more beyond that.

The only assets that would yield a decent return are Williams, stoll, or Simmonds. If they all go , then we just hurt our depth for Next season. Either way none of them will be able to fetch a return that will fill our holes.
I imagine Dean will be talking with Williams to see if he is willing to re-sign with the Kings. If he isn't and the Kings are out of the race, you will probably see him traded for more youth.

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01-21-2011, 06:56 PM
  #47
funky
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Originally Posted by scramble91 View Post
I'm curious on why people believe we should start selling?

Why and who would we sell? All the people outside our core players won't yield us anything but more later round picks or average prospects.

Unless we sell some of our kids it won't do us any good this season and a few more beyond that.

The only assets that would yield a decent return are Williams, stoll, or Simmonds. If they all go , then we just hurt our depth for Next season. Either way none of them will be able to fetch a return that will fill our holes.
because Handzus and Poni are older, slower and lately either not playing or playing a role on the 4th line, which can be replaced by younger talent. A pick back, even a later pick, can always be used later on as a throw in or to move up the draft.

I would retain Stoll and put him with Simmer and Cliff, and see over the final part of the year if they can be a productive 3rd line for next season. Richie, Lewis, Wastegaard, Zeiler and Harrold ---> these guys will be playing for their role next year.

Williams could fetch a nice prospect or pick, cheaper contract, good stats. That leaves us a top 6 of Kopitar, Smyth, Brown, and Sturm when healthy. It gives two of our prospects in Parse and Moller a extended tryout. I would also Split our goalies on a 2 games for Quick to 1 for Bernier.

Remember, this is only if we are out of it This team needs an attitude change and it needs its young core to step up.

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01-21-2011, 07:26 PM
  #48
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Yeah... don't see the need for all the depressed typing around here. It sucks being in this place. It sucks losing like this. But it is what it is. Last night was farcical. Every thing the Kings did turned out bad - every bounce, every call, every pass. It was hysterical. Only thing I could do at one point was just laugh. At one end of the ice the Kings got close and the puck hit a stick and bounced away from the open player. Just a bad bounce. At the other end - the EXACT same scenario - Phoenix gets a great chance. Puck missed being deflected by a an inch or two. That's all it is. An inch or two.

Westgarth, for all his faults, made a very nice defensive play (second period?) where he checked the Phoenix forward, swept the puck away with one hand, skated around the forward and bounced the puck off the boards and out of the K zone - very good and smooth move. Strong D move. It was a vital play, under pressure, because both Kings D were occupied and Phoenix had that side overloaded.

And then, ten minutes later, he tries to push the puck over the line through the center, again under pressure, the Phoenix player angles him, and gets a great bounce off the shaft of his stick for the 2 on 1 Stempniak goal. Same player! Only thing you can do is laugh. He's what, 20-21 year old kid learning his trade. He made a bad decision and we paid the price. Everybody wants to toss this guy. I see some McSorley in him - maybe in two or three years.

But going into panic mode: changing coaches, GM's, and core players at this moment is only going to set back development, imo, another two or three years. When we could be a few months away. EVEN IF we don't make the playoffs this year. These guys just need to get some rhythm, some luck going. Then the attacking style we saw earlier in the year during the big dominating wins will return.

But the players need to find that feeling. A new coach can't GIVE it too them. It's got to be found on the ice. And these are, after all, the same players that skated in those dominating games. I choose to believe those dominating games represent what this team can be. I don't believe this group, including GM and coaches, are represented by the current streak of losses.


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Old
01-21-2011, 07:55 PM
  #49
scramble91
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Originally Posted by funky View Post
because Handzus and Poni are older, slower and lately either not playing or playing a role on the 4th line, which can be replaced by younger talent. A pick back, even a later pick, can always be used later on as a throw in or to move up the draft.

I would retain Stoll and put him with Simmer and Cliff, and see over the final part of the year if they can be a productive 3rd line for next season. Richie, Lewis, Wastegaard, Zeiler and Harrold ---> these guys will be playing for their role next year.

Williams could fetch a nice prospect or pick, cheaper contract, good stats. That leaves us a top 6 of Kopitar, Smyth, Brown, and Sturm when healthy. It gives two of our prospects in Parse and Moller a extended tryout. I would also Split our goalies on a 2 games for Quick to 1 for Bernier.

Remember, this is only if we are out of it This team needs an attitude change and it needs its young core to step up.

This is pretty much what we anticipate..but what good does it do for us in the next 3 years? Talent wise, we will still be a worse team losing williams as he is are other skilled forward. (sturm will be gone for sure). So on our top 6 we will have 3 rookies (schenn, loki, and either moller or parse).

In a nutshell, if people want to sell away our veterans, be prepared to see inconsistent hockey for the next 2 seasons. replacing our veterans with kids at this point really doesnt make us better.

This is what splits the kingsfans on this board... some people want/expect the kings to be contenders now vs others who think we still wont be a viable contender for another 2-3 years. Who is right? nobody because different people have different expecations.

Do i think Dean has failed? Not yet...but if this team isnt contending in 2 years (and hasnt filled our roster holes), then i will jump on the fire DL bandwagon...as of now, we have a good thing going here, just wait a little to see if it all comes together.

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Old
01-21-2011, 11:04 PM
  #50
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By not signing either MacArthur, Torres, or that one other guy who's name escapes me.
LMAO,

MacArthur, Really?

I mean, yea hindsight is 20-20, but did you seriously think MacArthur was the answer when ATL walked away???

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