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Old
01-21-2011, 05:48 PM
  #176
Kaoz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
Are you comparing TO's pick to Stamkos?

LOL.

By the way, the Isles receiving a 2nd rounder for Andy freakin' Sutton, the Oilers receiving a younger defensemen and a 3rd rounder for Staios, and Florida receiving a 2nd round for Domenic Moore proves your statement completely invalid. And that's just off the top of my head.
Yes, that's exactly what I did there as shown by my statement "Steve Stamkos is just like that Toronto 1st".

Because it for some reason needs to be explained, the meaning is Calgary can want whatever they hell they want, if they are committed to trading Iginla (because it makes sense), they''ll take the best offer on the table or abandon their idea of the best course for the team and keep him.

The only reason Boston would need to include the Toronto 1st is if another lottery team is including their pick, a top young center, and a top prospect. Since that isn't likely, neither is Boston including Toronto's.

Just cause you see it, and you want it, doesn't mean you can get it.

Oh wait, I forgot a capitalized acronym to show that I'm really laughing hard at you... oh well, it's inferred.

Ps. I respect your opinion that Iginla isn't going anywhere unless its for massive overpayment. If Calgary is of like mind I look forward to watching a Mats Sundin like situation in Calgary.

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Old
01-21-2011, 05:48 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Dwatson783 View Post
Why will the be so interested in it if it's so overrated? I mean, if it's not a top 3 pick it's pretty much just like every other pick, isn't it? That's what we're saying here I think. If that's the case, it's value shouldn't be much and shouldn't need to be included...
The pick isn't overrated; people's perceptions of it are.

And by your logic, if it isn't a top-three pick and it has no value, then you theoretically would have to issues with dealing said pick. Right? Lowly Iginla should be able to garner a pick like that, right? I mean, the pick doesn't have much value. Like you said.



Didn't think so. You place value on that pick because you're hesitant to trade it. Thus, proving my point.

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Old
01-21-2011, 05:54 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
When was the last time 2 time richard winner
Those two awards were 2002 and 2004.....9 and 7 years ago, respectively. Great accomplishments but both pre-lockout and both long enough ago to not be relevant to current performance criteria (e.g. current value to a new team)

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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
future hall of famer
and so is Brodeur but doubt many lining up to grab him right now either. Same with Forsberg....he is also future HHOF. Doesn't mean that "TODAY" they are as good as in their prime.

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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
and one of the leagues best leaders
I am one of the biggest supporters of him who isn't a blatant Flames fan but what exactly has he led his team to....particularly since the lockout? Past few seasons have been completely downhill for his team so not sure how his leadership has been demonstrated.....




Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
players like Iginla almost never become available for trade with 2 full years left on their contract
and at $7 million a year for a 30ish goal scorer who is quite a number of years removed from those heady days.....how is that a bargain?



Look, he is a tremendous and classy player but his best years are not in front of him, they are in the rearview. His cap hit is huge and there is no current contending team that has that kind of space to throw around readily nor are they going to put in a lottery pick (Boston) for the "honour" of having to have one of the most expensive 30 goal scorers in the NHL.

I know Calgary fans want gross overpayment for their older players but the likelihood of that happening simply isn't all that high. Look at that four to six teams that have legitimate cup potential this year and see how many of them can make a trade for him that make sense for them......it is tough.

Boston giving up a potential lottery pick for some package is possible but I seriously doubt that Iginla would be their target in such deliberations.

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Old
01-21-2011, 05:55 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Yes, that's exactly what I did there as shown by my statement "Steve Stamkos is just like that Toronto 1st".
You indirectly implied it, mate, without you even knowing it. Go back and really think about what you posted there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Because it for some reason needs to be explained, the meaning is Calgary can want whatever they hell they want, if they are committed to trading Iginla (because it makes sense), they''ll take the best offer on the table or abandon their idea of the best course for the team and keep him.

The only reason Boston would need to include the Toronto 1st is if another lottery team is including their pick, a top young center, and a top prospect. Since that isn't likely, neither is Boston including Toronto's.

Just cause you see it, and you want it, doesn't mean you can get it.

Oh wait, I forgot a capitalized acronym to show that I'm really laughing hard at you... oh well, it's inferred.
LOL. You're implying here that if we trade Iginla, it will be for a lesser package than what we want?

Your arguments are incredibly bizarre.

Calgary simply won't make a trade if we don't get the return we want. As much as you don't want to believe it, Calgary is in the driver's seat here.

TO's first will be in play if you are seeking a player like Jarome Iginla - especially around trade deadline, where values are inflated.

Really, it's that simple.

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Old
01-21-2011, 05:58 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
LOL. You're implying here that if we trade Iginla, it will be for a lesser package than what we want?

Your arguments are incredibly bizarre.

Calgary simply won't make a trade if we don't get the return we want. As much as you don't want to believe it, Calgary is in the driver's seat here.

TO's first will be in play if you are seeking a player like Jarome Iginla - especially around trade deadline, where values are inflated.

Really, it's that simple.
Sooooo... Calgary keeps Iginla until he retires in 3 or 4 years, and continues to struggle?

It's really not that big a deal actually, I'm actually impartial to how Calgary's future pans out. There are plenty of other options out there. Lots of teams have won a cup without Iginla.

Again, no biggie to me if Calgary keeps him, it seems some of the fans are quite attached so honestly, I hope he does stay. Seriously. He's a great player, and a good thing to take away would be that at least he gpt tp retire with the team he obviously loves.

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Old
01-21-2011, 06:03 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
The pick isn't overrated; people's perceptions of it are.

And by your logic, if it isn't a top-three pick and it has no value, then you theoretically would have to issues with dealing said pick. Right? Lowly Iginla should be able to garner a pick like that, right? I mean, the pick doesn't have much value. Like you said.



Didn't think so. You place value on that pick because you're hesitant to trade it. Thus, proving my point.
I only threw that out there to make the point- you've rather dismissed that it has any value and should automatically be thrown in as it has to be our highest valued asset that isnt a player in the NHL currently. As it stands, picks 1-10 significantly help the Bruins going forward, so I don't look to move it. Do I over value it? Of course I do- for 3 reasons:

1. The sentimental value it holds

2. I believe the key to team building and winning championships lies in drafting players that can give significant contributions while still on RFA dollars (and ideally ELCs).

3. (less on value of the pick and more on the idea of trading for Iginla) I don't believe the Bruins are favorites as of now and their window isn't really hitting it's prime for another 2 seasons. If that's the case, why make the move for Iginla now when you could use that pick and have it come in during the prime of the window and contribute?

Locking up the team with another 7+ contract at the current moment handcuffs this organization and not having the toronto 1st does it 1 worse as you do not have what's likely a top talent to add during that stretch on ELC money. So what do you do then if you need an extra piece to the puzzle? Your already too tied up and out assets to make things happen. Especially when you consider this team needs a PmD much more than it needs Iginla and that will require making moves as well.

I'm not buying the added value of Iginla to this team over other moves it could make- so if that's made me jaded and thus overvaluing the Toronto 1st in respect to the deal, then well, it is what it is. In any case though we know that the Flames aren't moving Iginla and if they were to, Boston wouldn't be the ones to do it unless they were getting a deal too good to be true. Other needs need to be addressed and the appropriate assets for the larger window need to be looked at prior to putting our chips into what's a good player on an expensive contract on the slide (but from a very high pinnacle with production that would still be great to have).

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Old
01-21-2011, 08:21 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Sooooo... Calgary keeps Iginla until he retires in 3 or 4 years, and continues to struggle?

It's really not that big a deal actually, I'm actually impartial to how Calgary's future pans out. There are plenty of other options out there. Lots of teams have won a cup without Iginla.

Again, no biggie to me if Calgary keeps him, it seems some of the fans are quite attached so honestly, I hope he does stay. Seriously. He's a great player, and a good thing to take away would be that at least he gpt tp retire with the team he obviously loves.
Iginla will play until he's atleast 40. 7 more years. He'll also stay effective into his later years, much time Teemu.

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Old
01-21-2011, 09:07 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by ComixZone View Post
Iginla will play until he's atleast 40. 7 more years. He'll also stay effective into his later years, much time Teemu.
Crystal ball?

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Old
01-21-2011, 10:06 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Dwatson783 View Post
Crystal ball?

Can we ask for the same when told he'll retire in 3 years?

#1 in team fitness testing 3 years in a row (including this year)

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Old
01-22-2011, 12:30 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by SaintMorose View Post
Can we ask for the same when told he'll retire in 3 years?

#1 in team fitness testing 3 years in a row (including this year)
As someone watching Mark Recchi play, I think saying Iginla will retire in 3 years is ridiculous.

I do not expect a 40+ Mark Recchi though to go and put out 100+ point seasons like a 20 something year old Mark Recchi did. And while Iginla isn't near 40, I still wouldn't expect him to produce the same as a prime Iginla.

Aging happens, downtrending happens. Expecting it to not is a bit asinine.

Not saying he's going to be done, washed up, or an anchor (all are ridiculous), but there is higher risk of him not producing to the level he currently is capable of than he currently is.

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Old
01-22-2011, 02:45 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Dwatson783 View Post
As someone watching Mark Recchi play, I think saying Iginla will retire in 3 years is ridiculous.

I do not expect a 40+ Mark Recchi though to go and put out 100+ point seasons like a 20 something year old Mark Recchi did. And while Iginla isn't near 40, I still wouldn't expect him to produce the same as a prime Iginla.

Aging happens, downtrending happens. Expecting it to not is a bit asinine.

Not saying he's going to be done, washed up, or an anchor (all are ridiculous), but there is higher risk of him not producing to the level he currently is capable of than he currently is.
except Iginla is on pace for about 35 goals and 75 points... and that is after only 2 goals and 8 points in his first 15 games... his pace over the past 33 games would rival that of some of his better seasons

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Old
01-22-2011, 03:28 AM
  #187
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OP posted exactly the kind of offer that would be needed to be made to acquire Iggy. Fair value for both sides, IMO.

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01-22-2011, 08:12 AM
  #188
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Iginla most certainly will fetch a package including a 1st round pick.. Perhaps a team like Montreal whom has the sapce (Markov IR & ufa in offseason).. But no team w/ a lottery pick has a need for Iginla (Boston the exception) but they dont have the space for a $7m cap hit. Nor would they want to committ that much to another veteran (we already have Chara as our &7m vet). Perhaps if Iginla were younger it would happen..

Now if Parise were ever shopped, TOR1st most definitely becomes expendable. Parise is only 26 yrs old 7 yrs younger than Iggy.

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01-22-2011, 08:24 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by SaintMorose View Post
Can we ask for the same when told he'll retire in 3 years?

#1 in team fitness testing 3 years in a row (including this year)
Do you know how many players actually make it to 40 before they retire? Maybe 40 since the NHL came to be. It's quite the feat.

A GM would be crazy to pay out the nose for a 34 year old on the assumption he'll not only play till age 40, but also remain as effective as he is today.

I mean, I'd still pay out the nose to get him on the B's as Krejci, Colborne, and Boston's 1st next year is a hefty price. I just wouldn't want to see the Bruins massively overpay for him... and yes, I already know a Calgary fan would love to see that, kinda goes without saying.

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01-22-2011, 08:59 AM
  #190
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I'd take Krejci, Colborne, and Boston's 1st for Iginla and be happy. The other way I would do the deal would be Krejci, Colborne, Ryder and Toronto's 1st for Iginla and a choice of Tanguay or Staios/Sarich. I would be happy with either.

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01-22-2011, 09:40 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
You indirectly implied it, mate, without you even knowing it. Go back and really think about what you posted there.



LOL. You're implying here that if we trade Iginla, it will be for a lesser package than what we want?Your arguments are incredibly bizarre.

Calgary simply won't make a trade if we don't get the return we want. As much as you don't want to believe it, Calgary is in the driver's seat here.

TO's first will be in play if you are seeking a player like Jarome Iginla - especially around trade deadline, where values are inflated.

Really, it's that simple.
I think he is implying that either Iginla won't get what hte Flames fans on HFboards want for him and if the Flames really want to trade Iginla, they will take the best offfer and if they decide it isn't what they want, they will keep him.

I really don't see how you can argue with that statement. It comes down to saying either the Flames take what they can get or don't trade him, there is absolutely nothing controversial about that statement.

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01-22-2011, 10:18 AM
  #192
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It all comes down to what teams offer at the deadline

Krejci, Colboune, Ryder, bos 1st
Wheeler, Ryder, Colbourne, bos 1st, + min 2nd.

are good packages and if no other team can make a better offer (ex. Montreal / Atlanta) then there is no reason to expect the tor 1st to come into play.

I think the Flames take this if
1. We have doubts we are going to the playoffs and still have to leap frog teams to get in
2. Iggy wants to try for a cup with Savard in Boston


Last edited by SaintAnton: 01-22-2011 at 10:44 AM.
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Old
01-22-2011, 11:02 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I think he is implying that either Iginla won't get what hte Flames fans on HFboards want for him and if the Flames really want to trade Iginla, they will take the best offfer and if they decide it isn't what they want, they will keep him.

I really don't see how you can argue with that statement. It comes down to saying either the Flames take what they can get or don't trade him, there is absolutely nothing controversial about that statement.
I think it can be put another way. The Flames accept that getting rid of Iggy's contract will not be simple as few teams have the space and last thing Calgary wants back is bad contracts in return....they have a plethora of those right now. So, there are two roads, take what you can get on the market for Jarome and start the rebuilding with those pieces and others you can get from a firesale or continue on the decline with Jarome on board as at the end of his contract, he will not be bringing you anything in return and you will be no further ahead.

I think Jarome deserves a Ray Bourque like trade to give him a legitimate shot at the one thing that will not be happening for him on his current team...a Stanley Cup run with potential of winning it.

Look, some thought Vernon Wells' contract was untradeable.....so a move can happen but it won't be for what Flames fans on HFB want in return. GMs have seen what trades like Kovy deal have done to teams.

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Old
01-22-2011, 11:07 AM
  #194
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People will be quite suprised what Iggy fetches if traded and it wont be a late first and a old player and a bunch of busts

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01-22-2011, 11:16 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by newoilsburnsclean View Post
People will be quite suprised what Iggy fetches if traded
As they were when Phaneuf was traded.

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01-22-2011, 02:08 PM
  #196
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I think it can be put another way. The Flames accept that getting rid of Iggy's contract will not be simple as few teams have the space and last thing Calgary wants back is bad contracts in return....they have a plethora of those right now. So, there are two roads, take what you can get on the market for Jarome and start the rebuilding with those pieces and others you can get from a firesale or continue on the decline with Jarome on board as at the end of his contract, he will not be bringing you anything in return and you will be no further ahead.

I think Jarome deserves a Ray Bourque like trade to give him a legitimate shot at the one thing that will not be happening for him on his current team...a Stanley Cup run with potential of winning it.

Look, some thought Vernon Wells' contract was untradeable.....so a move can happen but it won't be for what Flames fans on HFB want in return. GMs have seen what trades like Kovy deal have done to teams.
I agree.

If Calgary was to deal with Boston I don't think there is any way around the fact that they will have to take Ryder, but his contract ends this year and it would just depend on whether they valued what ever else the Bruins could add to the deal.

The Bruins have 2 1st round picks and a bunch of good forward prospects, I'm not sure if they would be willing to give up TO's pick or not, but that would be a higher pick than any other playoff team could offer. Now if they offered up a proposal of Ryder, Wheeler, Colborne and Boston's 1st it looks to me like a deal that could really benefit both teams.

I am a Bruins fan, so I may be looking at it through black and gold glasses, but I think it could happen. I also know that a lot of Bruins fans might think that is too much to give up so i think it is probably about right.

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