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Seguin to Ottawa

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Old
01-22-2011, 12:02 PM
  #26
Fire Julien
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Cowen, Karlsson, Rundblad, 2011 1st, 2011 2nd, 2012 1st.

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Old
01-22-2011, 12:06 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Seguin View Post
Cowen, Karlsson, Rundblad, 2011 1st, 2011 2nd, 2012 1st.
Seguin, not Sidney.

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Old
01-22-2011, 12:08 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Seguin View Post
Cowen, Karlsson, Rundblad, 2011 1st, 2011 2nd, 2012 1st.
That's embarrassing.

Nothing Seguin has done so far makes him worthy of half that. Sam Gagner looked better his rookie year.

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Old
01-22-2011, 12:08 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Seguins Dragon View Post
look... we don't want to trade him... so it have to be over payment... as stated in original post.

Value wise... Seguin\Karlsson is about equal, perhaps balance tipped in Seguins favour due to where he was drafted and potential... that isn't a knock on Karlsson but he is nearly 3 years older and has 2 more years of development under him... basically you know what you got, Seguin is still up in the air.

Now to pry Seguin out of Boston... it will take MINIMUM Karlsson+ in order for them to consider it.
an all-star dman who turned 20, averaged over ppg and was amazing in the playoffs last year......I think the sky is the limit for Karlsson.

In terms of value they are about equal. In fact, it`s Seguin who you are more unsure of what type of player he can become. Anything less than 40 goal 90-100 pts center, and I want Karlsson.

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Old
01-22-2011, 12:12 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by 4thliner View Post
an all-star dman who turned 20, averaged over ppg and was amazing in the playoffs last year......I think the sky is the limit for Karlsson.

In terms of value they are about equal. In fact, it`s Seguin who you are more unsure of what type of player he can become. Anything less than 40 goal 90-100 pts center, and I want Karlsson.
cool... you don't want to trade him, fine I understand.

We keep Seguin, you keep Karlsson... lock up the thread and move on.

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Old
01-22-2011, 12:19 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
How do you plan on getting that pick from the Devils?
That's simple...Edmonton will copntinue to play good old Oilers hockey. Exciting last minute losses that keep pushing us further and further down. You're only 4 points under us and we're gaining ground

Hard to suck worse than a lineup almost entirely fueled by rookies and injured vets.

In reality the pick the package requested by Boston last year was supposedly Hemsky plus Eberle...so that's pretty well the starting point Boston would want. A player with roughly the same level of skill as Hemsky and a blue chip prospect (non franchise; though face of franchise is the same). Sequin has the potential to be a slightly better Spezza IMO. He's got a ways to go but he could easily be a franchise player and is a big center who makes those around him better, and you just don't trade players like that away unless it's a significant overpayment (especially when you consider cap budgets and production/potential vs pay).

Don't expect that just b/c Boston is deep in Center they'll move Seguin first. They could very easily move Krejci or with some work Savard and adjust lineups accordingly. Just because you're deep with centers doersn't mean you'll move the best C prospect you have. Probably cheaper to try for Colborne as he COULD be the odd man out for young centers with Seguin, Bergeron, Krejci, and Savard on ice.


Last edited by Brian28: 01-22-2011 at 12:30 PM. Reason: added response for OP
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Old
01-22-2011, 12:20 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Seguins Dragon View Post
cool... you don't want to trade him, fine I understand.

We keep Seguin, you keep Karlsson... lock up the thread and move on.
would you do Seguin for Larsson?

Just thinking of having Hall-Seguin-Eberle makes me giddy.

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Old
01-22-2011, 12:29 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HemskyToHall View Post
would you do Seguin for Larsson?

Just thinking of having Hall-Seguin-Eberle makes me giddy.
No. I've heard too many scouts say, "There is no Hall or Seguin in this draft." but then say that it's deeper 3-10.

This is a silly thread because the OP readily admits it would take something ridiculous to get him- which means every attempt to answer the OP is going to be met with "that's ridiculous."

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Old
01-22-2011, 01:08 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Gonzothe7thDman View Post
Sam Gagner looked better his rookie year.
That's a silly thing to say Gonzo. Gagner looked better than Joe Thornton his rookie year, but at no point in his career did anyone think he'd be the better player.

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Old
01-22-2011, 01:16 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Brian28 View Post
That's simple...Edmonton will copntinue to play good old Oilers hockey. Exciting last minute losses that keep pushing us further and further down. You're only 4 points under us and we're gaining ground

Hard to suck worse than a lineup almost entirely fueled by rookies and injured vets.

In reality the pick the package requested by Boston last year was supposedly Hemsky plus Eberle...so that's pretty well the starting point Boston would want. A player with roughly the same level of skill as Hemsky and a blue chip prospect (non franchise; though face of franchise is the same). Sequin has the potential to be a slightly better Spezza IMO. He's got a ways to go but he could easily be a franchise player and is a big center who makes those around him better, and you just don't trade players like that away unless it's a significant overpayment (especially when you consider cap budgets and production/potential vs pay).

Don't expect that just b/c Boston is deep in Center they'll move Seguin first. They could very easily move Krejci or with some work Savard and adjust lineups accordingly. Just because you're deep with centers doersn't mean you'll move the best C prospect you have. Probably cheaper to try for Colborne as he COULD be the odd man out for young centers with Seguin, Bergeron, Krejci, and Savard on ice.
You could have just said a much simpler answer: The Devils are winning out and getting to the playoffs.

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Old
01-22-2011, 01:21 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
You could have just said a much simpler answer: The Devils are winning out and getting to the playoffs.
Could have, but didn't. Besides the Devils aren't making the playoffs this year.

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Old
01-22-2011, 01:28 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kush View Post
Seguin is not worth Karlsson+, unless that plus is a late round pick. Now straight up, yes fair value.
We don't want or need to move Seguin, so why would Boston want fair value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HemskyToHall View Post
would you do Seguin for Larsson?

Just thinking of having Hall-Seguin-Eberle makes me giddy.
I'd pass.

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Old
01-22-2011, 01:29 PM
  #38
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Straight up for Karlsson.

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Old
01-22-2011, 01:53 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
....

Yeah, that all-star defenseman at 20 on pace for 50 points is worth less than a Center drafted 2nd overall who's 4th in depth on the team.

....

Do people even listen to themselves? Is draft status all that matters? I wouldn't trade Karlsson for Seguin + Toronto's 2011 1st. I'm not saying that Karlsson is *worth* Seguin + Toronto's 2011 first, but Karlsson has established he's a #1 defenseman. Now. Today.

He could be lights out good. There's absolutely no reason to give him up for someone who is more potential and less certain. If you want to include him as a package thing in a deal for Doughty or a proven first line player, fine.

Other then that, he stays in a Sens uniform.

What matters most is that the Bruins don't want to trade him. If someone made a proposal for Karlsson it should be the same thing.

It has less to do with Seguin's actual value than it does the fact that he is already on the team and they have long term plans for him.

Why would the Sens trade Karlsson? Especially when it just creates another hole on the team that would have to be filled.

Boston is in the position where Seguin doesn't play a big role on the team yet and they are bringing him along slowly so I think that is why there are proposals for him.

With the amount of good forward prospects the Bruins have and the amount of quality centers the Bruins have on the team right now I can see them trading a center and I see why Seguin would be the most desirable center from another team's point of view, BUT, I can also see that the Bruins really like this kid and he is in their plans for the long haul.

I could see a trade being made that would include one or both of David Krejci or Joe Colborne, but Seguin has such high potential that I think it would be much wiser to keep him and move someone else and I have hunch the Bruins management has similar feelings.

I'm not saying that the Sens should trade Karlsson for those guys either, just that I think they are much more likely to be traded.

I think the Sens should hold onto Karlsson unles they get a deal they just can't refuse, similar to what the Bruins should do with Seguin.

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Old
01-22-2011, 02:06 PM
  #40
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Logically speaking it would not be hard for the Sens to get Seguin. Only problem is Bruins fans would want a ridiculous overpayment because of Seguins "predicted" potential even if Ottawa were to send over some proven/established talent. Seguin is not worth Spezza at this point like some may try to suggest for he is not even comparable in terms of his career and establishing a permanent place in the NHL as a very good center. As for trading for Karlsson, its not a bad idea but Karlsson has definately proven himself so far and has results to show for it so the B's would need to throw in slightly more for a Karlsson/Seguin trade. Not trying to slander Seguin in anyway, just stating what is obvious.

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01-22-2011, 02:14 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Volt View Post
Logically speaking it would not be hard for the Sens to get Seguin. Only problem is Bruins fans would want a ridiculous overpayment because of Seguins "predicted" potential even if Ottawa were to send over some proven/established talent. Seguin is not worth Spezza at this point like some may try to suggest for he is not even comparable in terms of his career and establishing a permanent place in the NHL as a very good center. As for trading for Karlsson, its not a bad idea but Karlsson has definately proven himself so far and has results to show for it so the B's would need to throw in slightly more for a Karlsson/Seguin trade. Not trying to slander Seguin in anyway, just stating what is obvious.
I think it would be a lot harder than you do, the salary cap will not allow the Bruins to trade Seguin for a higher paid player and when you have a player who has very good potential and he is cost controlled for a few years, teams just don't trade players like that, just like the Sens won't trade karlsson, who I think is probably the least likely Sen to be traded.

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Old
01-22-2011, 02:16 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
....

Yeah, that all-star defenseman at 20 on pace for 50 points is worth less than a Center drafted 2nd overall who's 4th in depth on the team.

....

Do people even listen to themselves? Is draft status all that matters? I wouldn't trade Karlsson for Seguin + Toronto's 2011 1st. I'm not saying that Karlsson is *worth* Seguin + Toronto's 2011 first, but Karlsson has established he's a #1 defenseman. Now. Today.

He could be lights out good. There's absolutely no reason to give him up for someone who is more potential and less certain. If you want to include him as a package thing in a deal for Doughty or a proven first line player, fine.

Other then that, he stays in a Sens uniform.
You seriously need to drop you're homer goggles

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01-22-2011, 02:18 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I think it would be a lot harder than you do, the salary cap will not allow the Bruins to trade Seguin for a higher paid player and when you have a player who has very good potential and he is cost controlled for a few years, teams just don't trade players like that, just like the Sens won't trade karlsson, who I think is probably the least likely Sen to be traded.
You make a very point regarding the salary cap, seems like I forgot to take that into consideration. I guess in that case it would be a matter of risk for the Sens in terms of how Seguin eventually turns out and for the B's same thing regarding how Spezza or whoever would be traded due to the future of their cap and how the players they received in return turn out after switching to a new team plus the age factor.

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01-22-2011, 03:17 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SeenSean View Post
Doughty>Seguin>>>>>Karlsson
Wow. That's the dumbest thing I've seen posted in this forum in the last 10mins. But don't worry, it'll be eclipsed soon enough.

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01-22-2011, 03:33 PM
  #45
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In what universe is an unproven "potential" #1 center worth a young, all-star #1 D-man, or a proven #1 center?

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Old
01-22-2011, 03:58 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by LeafsandSharksfan View Post
In what universe is an unproven "potential" #1 center worth a young, all-star #1 D-man, or a proven #1 center?
Alexi Yashin.

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Old
01-22-2011, 04:11 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seguins Dragon View Post
look... we don't want to trade him... so it have to be over payment... as stated in original post.

Value wise... Seguin\Karlsson is about equal, perhaps balance tipped in Seguins favour due to where he was drafted and potential... that isn't a knock on Karlsson but he is nearly 3 years older and has 2 more years of development under him... basically you know what you got, Seguin is still up in the air.

Now to pry Seguin out of Boston... it will take MINIMUM Karlsson+ in order for them to consider it.
Where he was drafted has absolutely nothing to do with it. I think Seguin/Karlsson is probably close in value, though I think most people would value the defenseman over the forward. People saying that the Senators would need to add are crazy.

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Old
01-22-2011, 04:35 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by newoilsburnsclean View Post
You seriously need to drop you're homer goggles
You need to review what I said.

A 20 year old all-star defenseman does not get traded for the last year's 2nd overall pick just because the 2nd overall pick has "potential".

It doesn't happen.

I'm not saying Seguin won't eventually catch up, but if the deal was proposed today, it's absurd.

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01-22-2011, 04:49 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
You need to review what I said.
A 20 year old all-star defenseman does not get traded for the last year's 2nd overall pick just because the 2nd overall pick has "potential".
It doesn't happen.
I'm not saying Seguin won't eventually catch up, but if the deal was proposed today, it's absurd.
The 2nd overall potential franchise pick does not get traded less than one year later, by a first place team, just because Ottawa is looking to rebuild. It definitely doesn't happen. Further review of absurdities is in order.

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Old
01-22-2011, 05:01 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Eennad142 View Post
The 2nd overall potential franchise pick does not get traded less than one year later, by a first place team, just because Ottawa is looking to rebuild. It definitely doesn't happen. Further review of absurdities is in order.
I didn't propose them trading Seguin. I merely stated that Ottawa wouldn't deal Karlsson for him.

That's all.

Also - Karlsson > Seguin as far as rebuilds go - I'd much rather the player who's already a #1D then the one who might become a #1C, especially since I'd pick Doughty over Crosby in a fantasy draft on the assumption defense wins championships.

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