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Joe Pavelski to Toronto...

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01-22-2011, 01:42 PM
  #51
DrFeelgood
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Originally Posted by The Velvet Hammer View Post
lol i know, but it is in hockey. i wouldnt want to start to building around a 26 year old, i would want to be done building around 26/27 years old since that is a player prime.
You're being ridiculous. You're saying we need to win now, yet we need to build around our youngest player?

At 26, he still has a realistic 10 years left in him. That's plenty of time to build around a player.

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01-22-2011, 01:42 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by The Velvet Hammer View Post
pavelski is 26/27 if im not mistaken, thats not a "future" player IMO. start building around couture... you get prospects with beauchmin to help now and later.
Because if the Sharks have Couture they couldn't possibly keep Pavelski. Most good NHL franchises only have 1 Center, and a middle pairing defenseman.

Seriously, Pavelski is a poor man's Kesler which is much better than a poor team's unwanted defenseman.

I would take Beauchemin as a 4th defenseman, but not at a significant cost from our roster. If your GM doesn't like that, then he will be severely disappointed when making inquiries.

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01-22-2011, 01:44 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by DrFeelgood View Post
You're being ridiculous. You're saying we need to win now, yet we need to build around our youngest player?

At 26, he still has a realistic 10 years left in him. That's plenty of time to build around a player.
what i am saying is dont waste marleau and thorton while they are still tops in the league. Win now, dont end up having a vinny L on your team. (high payed guy that was good, but is not so good anymore)

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01-22-2011, 01:47 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by The Velvet Hammer View Post
what i am saying is dont waste marleau and thorton while they are still tops in the league. Win now, dont end up having a vinny L on your team. (high payed guy that was good, but is not so good anymore)
The problem with that being, adding Beauchemin at the cost of Pavelski does not upgrade the Sharks at all. Marleau and Thornton don't make Pavelski expendable at all. Beauchemin would definitely help the Sharks, but he's not going to put them over the top, especially when its going to cost you easily your best playoff performer.

I know HF likes young players, but it's not like Marleau and Thornton are Chris Chelios. They are both 31, and still have a good 5-7 years if solid hockey left in them. There's no reason to deal young players away at the cost of an average defenseman.

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01-22-2011, 01:50 PM
  #55
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i said beauchmin, holzer and lashoff for pavs and a 3rd.

straight up pav > beauchmin i know this, but you get 2 good players in holzer and lashoff aswell.

tell me, what are sanjose current d pairs, pp and 5on5?


Last edited by Patty Ice: 01-22-2011 at 01:59 PM. Reason: qdp
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01-22-2011, 01:52 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by The Velvet Hammer View Post
lol i know, but it is in hockey. i wouldnt want to start to building around a 26 year old, i would want to be done building around 26/27 years old since that is a player prime.
So you wouldn't build around Ovechkin, Perry, or Kesler?

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01-22-2011, 01:53 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by The Velvet Hammer View Post
you called me (and several other people) idiots, you are telling me i dont know hockey, ect.

anyways i said beauchmin, holzer and lashoff for pavs and a 3rd.

straight up pav > beauchmin i know this, but you get 2 good players in holzer and lashoff aswell.

tell me, what are sanjose current d pairs, pp and 5on5?
Murray-Boyle
Demers-Vlasic
Huskins-Wallin
Joslin/Braun

PP:
Heatley-Thornton-Couture
Pavelski-Boyle

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01-22-2011, 01:53 PM
  #58
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Lol forever. First of all, he's 25. Second, why the **** should the Sharks start building around Couture when they remain Cup contenders? You and the rest of the Leafs fans just need to stop making proposals with San Jose players; you clearly know nothing about the team.


Either way Schenn is 21, and isn't being traded for Pavelski. We don't care if thats value or not we aren't trading him for a second liner period.

Plus its not like his 50 or 60 points is the answer for Toronto's number 1 center need

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01-22-2011, 01:55 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Velvet Hammer View Post
tell me, what are sanjose current d pairs, pp and 5on5?
Right now, the Sharks have:

Boyle
Vlasic
Murray
Demers
Wallin
Huskins

Joslin/Braun going back and forth between Worcester and San Jose)

The pairings tend to shift a lot, but the PP's tend to have Boyle-Vlasic and Demers-Pavelski on the blueline

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01-22-2011, 01:56 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post


Either way Schenn is 21, and isn't being traded for Pavelski. We don't care if thats value or not we aren't trading him for a second liner period.

Plus its not like his 50 or 60 points is the answer for Toronto's number 1 center need
A second liner behind Joe Thornton, likely a first liner on a lot of teams...if he was playing on the first line with Heatley and Couture he would get a lot more points...your argument is flawed...

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01-22-2011, 01:56 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by DrFeelgood View Post
Right now, the Sharks have:

Boyle
Vlasic
Murray
Demers
Wallin
Huskins

Joslin/Braun going back and forth between Worcester and San Jose)

The pairings tend to shift a lot, but the PP's tend to have Boyle-Vlasic and Demers-Pavelski on the blueline
Boyle-Pavelski and Demers-Vlasic

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01-22-2011, 01:58 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsolonMoreau View Post
Boyle-Pavelski and Demers-Vlasic
I was close

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01-22-2011, 02:02 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Velvet Hammer View Post
what i am saying is dont waste marleau and thorton while they are still tops in the league. Win now, dont end up having a vinny L on your team. (high payed guy that was good, but is not so good anymore)
Since we are winning now, what good are your young prospects (Holzer and Lashoff) going to do for our Cup run? Pavelski will help us win a Cup far more than Beauchemin will this year.

Having too many centers on the team is not a bad thing. Ask Pittsburgh.

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01-22-2011, 02:03 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by AbsolonMoreau View Post
A second liner behind Joe Thornton, likely a first liner on a lot of teams...if he was playing on the first line with Heatley and Couture he would get a lot more points...your argument is flawed...
Either way he plays with one of Heatley, Couture or Marleau and is being outscore by Grabovski so why would we need him? Its not like Burke is going to make a trade just because its fair value.

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01-22-2011, 02:04 PM
  #65
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And the obsession with point totals continues...

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01-22-2011, 02:04 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by AbsolonMoreau View Post
A second liner behind Joe Thornton, likely a first liner on a lot of teams...if he was playing on the first line with Heatley and Couture he would get a lot more points...your argument is flawed...
Your arguement is flawed because he'd also draw the top defensive assignments. Pavelski's linemates haven't been his problem.

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Originally Posted by DrFeelgood View Post
And the obsession with point totals continues...
That's generally what you acquire a first line centre to do.

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01-22-2011, 02:08 PM
  #67
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That's generally what you acquire a first line centre to do.
Pavelski isn't a 1st line center and is not expected to put up large point totals

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01-22-2011, 02:09 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Your arguement is flawed because he'd also draw the top defensive assignments. Pavelski's linemates haven't been his problem.



That's generally what you acquire a first line centre to do.
Like the playoffs where he lit it up?

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01-22-2011, 02:10 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by DrFeelgood View Post
Pavelski isn't a 1st line center and is not expected to put up large point totals
You're absolutely correct, but Toronto needs a first line C.

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Originally Posted by AbsolonMoreau View Post
Like the playoffs where he lit it up?
Toronto needs to worry about getting into the playoffs before gettign guys that only produce big numbers in them.

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01-22-2011, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
You're absolutely correct, but Toronto needs a first line C.
Then why are you guys insistent on Pavelski? He's not the first line center that your team needs.

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01-22-2011, 02:15 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by DrFeelgood View Post
Then why are you guys insistent on Pavelski? He's not the first line center that your team needs.
We shouldn't be. He'd undoubtedly help, but Toronto really needs somebody better. That being said, you've gotta look at any move that would imrpove your team.

What's more puzzling is why San Jose would pursue Schenn if they were trading Pavelski, when you guys obviously need a defenceman who can move the puck.

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01-22-2011, 02:15 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by DrFeelgood View Post
Then why are you guys insistent on Pavelski? He's not the first line center that your team needs.
I've been trying to state this, Pavelski might be one of the best second line centers, but we need a first line play making center.

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01-22-2011, 02:20 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
We shouldn't be. He'd undoubtedly help, but Toronto really needs somebody better. That being said, you've gotta look at any move that would imrpove your team.

What's more puzzling is why San Jose would pursue Schenn if they were trading Pavelski, when you guys obviously need a defenceman who can move the puck.
While many of the fans here say we need a puck mover, IMO we don't. We already have Boyle and Demers (and to a lesser extent, Braun) who have been effective in moving the puck, and what we need is more of a two-way guy that can make an effective first pass. What he does offensively after that first pass, is irrelevant to me.

I think the Schenn responses are more about value than need, since the proposals of Beauchemin for Pavelski are absurd.

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01-22-2011, 02:23 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by DrFeelgood View Post
While many of the fans here say we need a puck mover, IMO we don't. We already have Boyle and Demers (and to a lesser extent, Braun) who have been effective in moving the puck, and what we need is more of a two-way guy that can make an effective first pass. What he does offensively after that first pass, is irrelevant to me.

I think the Schenn responses are more about value than need, since the proposals of Beauchemin for Pavelski are absurd.
So a top pair guy and two bottom pair guys? We're in a agreement that San Jose needs a two-way guy, but Luke Schenn is not a two-way defenceman.

To me, it seems more like "we don't want to trade Pavelski so we'll ask for a player that we know you wouldn't trade, even though we don't actually really want them" approach.

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01-22-2011, 02:24 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
What's more puzzling is why San Jose would pursue Schenn if they were trading Pavelski, when you guys obviously need a defenceman who can move the puck.
It's not that Schenn would be more help than Beauch right now (he wouldn't) but at least he offers a wealth of potential on top of already showing to be a NHL defenceman if Pavelski was to be moved. I, for one, wouldn't touch that deal but I can understand why other Sharks fan would rather have him over Beauch.

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