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1/21/10 "Where We're Going, We Don't Need Defense" - Lightning VS Panthers

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01-22-2011, 08:34 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I was his 'friend' on Facebook and he didn't make any such comments. Just said, "I'm a Florida Panther?" Nothing more.
As I said, it's conjecture on my part. That rumor was the first thing I thought of when he was cut. It just didn't make sense to me to waive him otherwise.

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01-22-2011, 08:35 PM
  #152
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[QUOTE=Laus723;30394491 Just let a kid who didn't earn a spot stay scratched hoping for injuries? [/QUOTE]

Why not? Better than losing him for nothing.

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01-22-2011, 08:36 PM
  #153
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Olesz earned a contract that he never deserved about 4 years ago; as of right now, he probably doesn't even belong in the NHL.

He, like Reinprecht, is a "veteran" who should be held accountable, yet it never happens with Olesz.

Preseason isn't enough time to decide whether or not you want to waive a prospect.

It was not a good move.

I haven't watched Grabner much this year, but even if he is a one-dimensional scorer, that's a lot more useful than anything Olesz does. And we all knew Olesz wasn't going to exceed expectations. We've been waiting forever, and it never happens. The guy should not be here; he's only here because the Panthers are being pretty cheap about the situation.
Grabner still didn't beat him out for a spot, and no team moves out players with NHL contracts so a prospect can stay scratched.

This is getting ridiculous. Not many like Olesz, perhaps he shouldn't be here anymore, and I'm frustrated with him as anyone is, but Grabner didn't make the team. And just a week and a half ago he had 9 goals. He's very streaky.

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01-22-2011, 08:36 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Those of you griping about Gabner haven't stated at all what the team should have done. Just let a kid who didn't earn a spot stay scratched hoping for injuries? And name a team that has moved out NHL players (doesn't matter whether he signed for too much, he earned a contract. JM takes blame for the contract) to let a prospect who had a bad camp and didn't earn a spot is able to hang around. There isn't one.
At the very least he would have been given five minutes a game. I'd much rather have him out there than Hordichuk. There is no way he would have stayed a healthy scratch as this team lacks offensive prowess and have had numerous benchings. I don't believe it would have been long until he was given ice-time.

I'd appreciate if you have showed me a team that has dealt with a high-end prospect in a similar fashion. This said team must also have a player similar to Olesz.
Your latter argument is fundamentally flawed, you can't replicate a team with the same circumstances- from personnel to ascribed accountability to general history.

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01-22-2011, 08:41 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Grabner still didn't beat him out for a spot, and no team moves out players with NHL contracts so a prospect can stay scratched.

This is getting ridiculous. Not many like Olesz, perhaps he shouldn't be here anymore, and I'm frustrated with him as anyone is, but Grabner didn't make the team. And just a week and a half ago he had 9 goals. He's very streaky.
Grabner still didn't beat him out for a spot in an incredibly diminutive timespan. The decision was rendered too hastily.
Who cares if he's streaky? I'd rather have those fourteen goals in streaks than Olesz's five weeks out with a pinky finger injury or his consistently abysmal play.

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01-22-2011, 08:41 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
As I said, it's conjecture on my part. That rumor was the first thing I thought of when he was cut. It just didn't make sense to me to waive him otherwise.
Yeah, a lot of people only heard some things, I looked him up soon as we got him, he friended quickly. Haven't done that before, just did with him, lol.

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Why not? Better than losing him for nothing.
No room, you have to look at our roster at the time and what was going on. No one was, or is, going to take Olesz. Off waivers, via trade, he's a Panther. Unless in a package, he's likely here til the summer, and I'm not certain he'll be bought out then, either.

If it wasn't for his contract, he wouldn't be hated on as much. Not saying I like having him around, just that the contract has made him more deplorable.

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01-22-2011, 08:41 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Grabner still didn't beat him out for a spot, and no team moves out players with NHL contracts so a prospect can stay scratched.

This is getting ridiculous. Not many like Olesz, perhaps he shouldn't be here anymore, and I'm frustrated with him as anyone is, but Grabner didn't make the team. And just a week and a half ago he had 9 goals. He's very streaky.
What, exactly, did Olesz do in preseason to beat Grabner out for a spot? It had everything to do with the contract.

Also...
1) Streaky scoring is better than no scoring.
2) Wouldn't you say it's better to scratch the guy and waiting a bit to see what happens, instead of just waiving a guy with potential?

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01-22-2011, 08:43 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
No room, you have to look at our roster at the time and what was going on. No one was, or is, going to take Olesz. Off waivers, via trade, he's a Panther. Unless in a package, he's likely here til the summer, and I'm not certain he'll be bought out then, either.

If it wasn't for his contract, he wouldn't be hated on as much. Not saying I like having him around, just that the contract has made him more deplorable.
There were numerous veterans we could have sent into the minors.
We made room for Dadonov by lending Reino to Mannheim.

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01-22-2011, 08:44 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Yeah, a lot of people only heard some things, I looked him up soon as we got him, he friended quickly. Haven't done that before, just did with him, lol.



No room, you have to look at our roster at the time and what was going on. No one was, or is, going to take Olesz. Off waivers, via trade, he's a Panther. Unless in a package, he's likely here til the summer, and I'm not certain he'll be bought out then, either.

If it wasn't for his contract, he wouldn't be hated on as much. Not saying I like having him around, just that the contract has made him more deplorable.
Was it a case of having no room, though? I don't remember.

Either way, there had to be somebody on this roster making the minimum or near the minimum who could've been put on waivers, instead of the guy we acquired for Keith Ballard, who had a lot of potential.

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01-22-2011, 08:48 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by asleepinthechapel View Post
At the very least he would have been given five minutes a game. I'd much rather have him out there than Hordichuk. There is no way he would have stayed a healthy scratch as this team lacks offensive prowess and have had numerous benchings. I don't believe it would have been long until he was given ice-time.

I'd appreciate if you have showed me a team that has dealt with a high-end prospect in a similar fashion. This said team must also have a player similar to Olesz.
Your latter argument is fundamentally flawed, you can't replicate a team with the same circumstances- from personnel to ascribed accountability to general history.
Give it a rest, it hasn't happened because teams don't handle prospects vs. roster players that way. You guys with your scenarios are getting out of hand.

He had to clear and we had a full roster of guys who made the team. He didn't beat anyone out, including Reino, who started as a healthy scratch. He needed to clear once, then he could come and go. The Islanders had a slew of injuries, it's possible he would've passed if they didn't.

Hordi's a grinder, most teams (especially the successful ones) don't put players like Grabner on their grinding lines.

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Originally Posted by asleepinthechapel View Post
Grabner still didn't beat him out for a spot in an incredibly diminutive timespan. The decision was rendered too hastily.
Who cares if he's streaky? I'd rather have those fourteen goals in streaks than Olesz's five weeks out with a pinky finger injury or his consistently abysmal play.
That's not how it works, he should have gone back to the A, like all prospects who don't make their NHL teams. I don't think you're taking the roster's full load into account. As I said, no one thought Bitzy would be out this long at the time, either.

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01-22-2011, 08:52 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Give it a rest, it hasn't happened because teams don't handle prospects vs. roster players that way. You guys with your scenarios are getting out of hand.

He had to clear and we had a full roster of guys who made the team. He didn't beat anyone out, including Reino, who started as a healthy scratch. He needed to clear once, then he could come and go. The Islanders had a slew of injuries, it's possible he would've passed if they didn't.

Hordi's a grinder, most teams (especially the successful ones) don't put players like Grabner on their grinding lines.



That's not how it works, he should have gone back to the A, like all prospects who don't make their NHL teams. I don't think you're taking the roster's full load into account. As I said, no one thought Bitzy would be out this long at the time, either.
Is that why PDB habitually replaces Hordi with Booth?
Who cares if he didn't beat out anyone? It comes down to POOR ASSET MANAGEMENT.
I understand that the roster was at capacity. Nevertheless, you don't throw a prospect away when you can demote a player who has been consistently atrocious, regardless of salary. How's that accountability?

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01-22-2011, 08:53 PM
  #162
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The NHL, like the NBA, NFL, and MLB have a way for young players to make their teams. The pre-season and camp. Grabner didn't do it, had to pass through waivers, he didn't clear.

I'm done with this topic. Carry on with the spilled milk, no team does differently with their prospects. I'm not a fan of the move, but you guys are forgetting the roster at the time.

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01-22-2011, 08:54 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Hordi's a grinder, most teams (especially the successful ones) don't put players like Grabner on their grinding lines.


1. That's not true. The Panthers have actually done it before; they're still doing it, actually.

2. The Panthers aren't a Cup contending, successful team. They're a rebuilding team. Our GM, himself, promised that it would take time. Grabner is the type of goal scoring potential you can rebuild with.

You put him on the checking lines, give him time (more than...a handful of preseason games), and see if he earns more ice time, based on his play (as he did with the Islanders).

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01-22-2011, 08:57 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I'm done with this topic. Carry on with the spilled milk, no team does differently with their prospects. I'm not a fan of the move, but you guys are forgetting the roster at the time.
If you're going by that logic, no team puts a top prospect on waivers like that, either. Especially after just acquiring him in a major offseason trade.

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01-22-2011, 08:57 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by asleepinthechapel View Post
Is that why PDB consistently replaces Hordi with Booth?
Who cares if he didn't beat out anyone? It comes down to POOR ASSET MANAGEMENT.
I understand that the roster was at capacity. Nevertheless, you don't throw a prospect away when you can demote a player who has been consistently atrocious, regardless of salary. How's that accountability?
Last address on this:

Pete doesn't trust enforcers. Double-shifting a guy happens, get Center Ice. However, Matthias isn't a grinder, either, but he's not at all soft.

You still have offered nothing as to what to do with him. Especially since he HAD to pass through waivers.

This is why I'm checking out, this argument is going in circles.

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01-22-2011, 09:03 PM
  #166
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Last address on this:

Pete doesn't trust enforcers. Double-shifting a guy happens, get Center Ice. However, Matthias isn't a grinder, either, but he's not at all soft.

You still have offered nothing as to what to do with him. Especially since he HAD to pass through waivers.

This is why I'm checking out, this argument is going in circles.
I have Center-Ice, thanks for the suggestion though. I understand that double-shifting is quite common. This isn't the issue you brought up- it's who is being replaced for Hordi when double shifted.
What you said is completely false. Hordichuk doesn't consistently play on a grinding line, the majority of his shifts are taken by Booth, a goal scorer not a grinder. (I apologize for my lack of articulation, in a hurry)


If you read my post a bit more carefully you would have found the several solutions I offered, from demoting a player like Olesz to giving him small doses of ice-time until he proved himself. The Isles have done just that.

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01-22-2011, 09:20 PM
  #167
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I'm not sure I understand the argument against demoting Olesz to the AHL.

There are a few ways it could have worked out:

1. He clears waivers. He plays in the minors and Grabner is up on the big team scoring goals. Either way we pay him full salary, so who cares if its in the NHL or AHL.

2. He gets claimed. We get rid of him and only have to pay half his salary. I'd rather pay half his salary than all of it, especially when we are no where near the cap. Again, we still have Grabner.

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01-22-2011, 11:01 PM
  #168
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So Grabner and Stewart are doing better than anyone on our tean. Did I say our coach is an idiot.
You probably understand that trading/wawing is +-0 game in NHL.
As a GM you cannot be a successful trader for a long, NHL is closed market. Sooner or later you would have to make a "bad" trade or make "bad" waiwe, otherwise you wouldn't have any trading partners.

JOL

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