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Old
01-23-2011, 12:28 AM
  #26
seanlinden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
Campbell was looking good in Buffalo, San Jose and Chicago before they got super awesome. It's ok to admit that Campbell is a better player than Dion. It's ok jfried.
Actually, Campbell never looked like more than a #2/3 defenceman. The same that Dion has been playing like right now.

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Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
Is that the same reason John Mitchell isn't looking like Jonathan Toews?

I think that's ridiculous. It's not Phaneuf's teammates that are Phaneuf's big problem, it's himself.

By the way, why would Phaneuf improve so much further on just because he's younger? If anything, Campbell's the one improving. Is it because of all the great hockey sense and smartness Phaneuf's showing and making people think he will once dominate a game like Chris Pronger?
Phaneuf shouldn't be expected to improve significantly, but when one player is 25 and the other is 31, chances are that the 25 year old is going to improve, if either of them.

It's Phaneuf himself who's preventing him from becoming a #1 defenceman and earning his $6.5m contract. However, he's been a fine #2/3 guy which is the same as Brian Campbell. Phaneuf (and most of the Leafs defence) will look like garbage on many nights because they get horrible puck support, have had very lacklustre goaltending, and their big, physical, non-puckmoving D isn't suited to playing with the speedy forwards who rely on the rush offence.

There are two things going on here working against Phaneuf. First is that he just hasn't been good enough to be a #1 guy like a $6.5m defenceman should. Second, he (like the rest of the Leafs D) have struggled (especially in the giveaway and points department) because they aren't great puckmovers combined with Toronto playing an extremely uptempo game where the forwards provide very little puck support. They also do a very poor job of creating traffic infront and working the puck down low to open up the point shots, as they rely on forwards getting the puck to the slot.

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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Just ignore jfried, he's off in his own little world.

The only thing Phaneuf has over Campbell is that he has a harder shot. That's about it. He's rarely even physical anymore, so it's not really a strong point.
Just ignore Brian Boyle. He sees one Leaf game where we don't bother to show up assumes that's indicative of the team's play.


Last edited by seanlinden: 01-23-2011 at 12:35 AM.
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Old
01-23-2011, 12:31 AM
  #27
Leafssss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Just ignore jfried, he's off in his own little world.

The only thing Phaneuf has over Campbell is that he has a harder shot. That's about it. He's rarely even physical anymore, so it's not really a strong point.
7517 posts since October LOL

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Old
01-23-2011, 01:22 AM
  #28
Mafoofoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Actually, Campbell never looked like more than a #2/3 defenceman. The same that Dion has been playing like right now.
As of right now Dion is not playing like a number #2. More like a #3. Campbell on the other hand since 05-06 is putting up an average of 41 points a season. Which is pretty ****ing good for a guy who's never looked like more than a #2/#3. While Dion has outscored campbell in a few seasons unlike Campbell's numbers which are fairly consistent, Dion's have been going down each season after that beast 60 point season.

Quote:
Phaneuf shouldn't be expected to improve significantly, but when one player is 25 and the other is 31, chances are that the 25 year old is going to improve, if either of them.
As of now Dion's numbers are going down each season whereas Campbell's are staying fairy consistent. Though your point about the age of each player when the contract ends could go either way.
Quote:
It's Phaneuf himself who's preventing him from becoming a #1 defenceman and earning his $6.5m contract. However, he's been a fine #2/3 guy which is the same as Brian Campbell.
Unless Phaneuf is playing with Kaberle and allowing him to run wild and score points by covering for him back in the d-zone Phaneuf is not playing like a fine #2. Either you're playing shut down and covering for your offensive parter or you're contributing offensively in a large way. Campbell provides the offense for the 2nd pair with Charmander and plays a large role in Chicago's transition offense. You saw how much worse the offense was with him out of the lineup.

Quote:
Phaneuf (and most of the Leafs defence) will look like garbage on many nights because they get horrible puck support, have had very lacklustre goaltending, and their big, physical, non-puckmoving D isn't suited to playing with the speedy forwards who rely on the rush offence.
Please it's not like Chicago has goaltending magic to help them out either.


Quote:
Just ignore Brian Boyle. He sees one Leaf game where we don't bother to show up assumes that's indicative of the team's play.

Oh I dunno he's played the Leafs a few times and he's even scored on them. I'm pretty sure he knows the Leafs D better than you.

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Old
01-23-2011, 01:34 AM
  #29
seanlinden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
As of right now Dion is not playing like a number #2. More like a #3. Campbell on the other hand since 05-06 is putting up an average of 41 points a season. Which is pretty ****ing good for a guy who's never looked like more than a #2/#3. While Dion has outscored campbell in a few seasons unlike Campbell's numbers which are fairly consistent, Dion's have been going down each season after that beast 60 point season.



As of now Dion's numbers are going down each season whereas Campbell's are staying fairy consistent. Though your point about the age of each player when the contract ends could go either way.


Unless Phaneuf is playing with Kaberle and allowing him to run wild and score points by covering for him back in the d-zone Phaneuf is not playing like a fine #2. Either you're playing shut down and covering for your offensive parter or you're contributing offensively in a large way. Campbell provides the offense for the 2nd pair with Charmander and plays a large role in Chicago's transition offense. You saw how much worse the offense was with him out of the lineup.



Please it's not like Chicago has goaltending magic to help them out either.





Oh I dunno he's played the Leafs a few times and he's even scored on them. I'm pretty sure he knows the Leafs D better than you.
Actually, he's playing like a #2. He & Beauchemin have been the Leafs top shutdown pair, and have been pretty good in the process considering the team around him. Campbell has always been a #2-3 guy who puts up big numbers but the rest of his game is very lacklustre.

All it takes is a half-decent coach to get Phaneuf's offence going. He's also evolved into a much more complete defenceman with the numbers going down. That's something that Campbell has never naturally been -- his solid defensive play in Chicago is as a result of Quennville.

Phaneuf is playing with Beauchemin. They go out against other teams top units while Kaberle-Schenn are relied upon to generate offence. He's played like a defenceman who should be making ~$4.75m, much like Brian Campbell.

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Old
01-23-2011, 01:43 AM
  #30
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jfried, yet again, you are absolutely as far off base as you could possibly be.

I've seen plenty of Leafs games. I don't know why I continue to tune into them , seeing as it's absolutely depressing to see such a terrible team play for such a loyal fanbase, but I do.

And I will say this. The Phaneuf = caveman joke is there for a reason.

The guy is hockey stupid. Awful, awful hockey IQ. He's constantly out of position, pinches at the wrong times, and takes dumb penalties. And he's not even good for offensive purposes anymore. He can't hit the net for his life, and his hip problem isn't helping his lateral skating. He's also terrible in his own zone. Watching him and Beauchemin trying to defend is, like I said before, watching two chickens run around with their heads cut off. There is no better comparison for it.

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Old
01-23-2011, 01:49 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outrageous Leafs Fan View Post
To Toronto:
Brian Campbell
1st 2011

To Chicago:
Dion Phaneuf
Brett Lebda

Flamesuit, Initiated

Edit: forget the first deal, I know realize the fanboys that worship Campbell and his
albatross contract.
I dont know what your 1st deal was but this deal is one of the worst I have seen on HF

Hawks trade away a good dman and a 1st for one of the most overated and worst dmen in NHL and one of the worst contracts in NHL + take on the Leafs 2nd worst dman in deal as well

Truly awful

Phaneuf sucks offensively , Doesnt play the physical game he did in past , His defense is absolutely god awful and he is one of the dumbest hockey players I have ever seen in the NHL in my lifetime. He has no defensive awareness or hockey sense

He is a 6.5 million dollar pylon

No Thanks!!!!

+ With our cap issues mostly out of way for now we are in no rush to trade Campbell who has been our most consistant dman all year and who's Puck Moving Skills are badly needed with Hawks

He is a key part of our team now and in future.

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Old
01-23-2011, 01:56 AM
  #32
seanlinden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
jfried, yet again, you are absolutely as far off base as you could possibly be.

I've seen plenty of Leafs games. I don't know why I continue to tune into them , seeing as it's absolutely depressing to see such a terrible team play for such a loyal fanbase, but I do.

And I will say this. The Phaneuf = caveman joke is there for a reason.

The guy is hockey stupid. Awful, awful hockey IQ. He's constantly out of position, pinches at the wrong times, and takes dumb penalties. And he's not even good for offensive purposes anymore. He can't hit the net for his life, and his hip problem isn't helping his lateral skating. He's also terrible in his own zone. Watching him and Beauchemin trying to defend is, like I said before, watching two chickens run around with their heads cut off. There is no better comparison for it.
Brian Boyle, yet again, you are absolutely as far off base as you could possilby be. You claim to watch Leafs games, but your posts indicate otherwise.

Phaneuf is stupid, but he has enough talent that despite being a dumb hockey player, he's a decent #2/3 guy. There hasn't been any sifnificant problems with Toronto's defencemen this year, and specifically the way that Beauchemin/Phaneuf have gone about defending the other team's top units. The problems come from seriously undersized forwards, and not having good enough goaltending to play a defensive system. If they could generate a cycle game down low and net presence, they'd have more offence from the blueline. That same cycle game would allow them to support the puck better in the offensive zone, and have lower risk offensive zone turnovers.

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Old
01-23-2011, 04:28 AM
  #33
Bubba88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outrageous Leafs Fan View Post
To Toronto:
Brian Campbell
1st 2011

To Chicago:
Dion Phaneuf
Brett Lebda


Flamesuit, Initiated

Edit: forget the first deal, I know realize the fanboys that worship Campbell and his albatross contract.
uggghh

this is bad.


Why should we give a 1st to this?


I take Campbell with his contract over your 2 Players. Campbell is a great player and when he is out, the Hawks are not the Team they can be. Everyone who sees him play should know that he is a great player and Chicago would be stupid to trade him if we don't get a player back who is better and younger than him --> won't happen


Last edited by Bubba88: 01-23-2011 at 11:03 AM.
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Old
01-23-2011, 08:14 AM
  #34
noBSleafsFAN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outrageous Leafs Fan View Post
To Toronto:
Brian Campbell
1st 2011

To Chicago:
Dion Phaneuf
Brett Lebda


Flamesuit, Initiated

Edit: forget the first deal, I know realize the fanboys that worship Campbell and his albatross contract.
LOLwut?

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Old
01-23-2011, 10:59 AM
  #35
Sevanston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outrageous Leafs Fan View Post
To Toronto:
Brian Campbell
1st 2011

To Chicago:
Dion Phaneuf
Brett Lebda


Flamesuit, Initiated

Edit: forget the first deal, I know realize the fanboys that worship Campbell and his albatross contract.
Loving our high-quality #3 dman, the one who our team has looked lost without, the one who's playing the most consistently on our team makes me a fanboy. Especially when I refuse to trade him and a first for Dion Dumbo and Brett Lebda?

I see why you're called outrageous now.

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Old
01-23-2011, 11:04 AM
  #36
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Campbell>Phaneuf
1st>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Lebda

I'd do this in a second.
Hawks say HELL NO.

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