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Seguin to Ottawa

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Old
01-23-2011, 06:25 AM
  #76
wilfred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Karlsson View Post
I understand where your coming from, but in order for this to work, we are going to need the #1 as I don't see Larsson dropping. At the rate we are playing, the chances get better and better but I wouldn't trade Karlsson without the guarantee of Larsson. I also think that we need a pure offensive guy, like karlsson. As much as I like Rundblad, he hasn't played 1 game in the NHL yet. That alone scares me. What if the other guys on D don't pan out. Seguin would be in the position of Spezza, except with perhaps better lines mates.

Oh and because I'm a huge Karlsson fan. I want him to lead the next great Ottawa Senators team.
You are right it is a risky move what I'm proposing, however it is also possible that Rundblad won't be able to develop as quickly or become as good if he stuck behind Karlsson. 2nd line on the PP, 3rd line minutes ect... Remember Karlsson had a great oppertunity with no offencively minded D-man on the team, not sure if Rundblad will get that same chance, but we will find out I guess.

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01-23-2011, 07:42 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
boston would have pr problems dealing seguin. no cap room to take proven stars. and we are win now mentality... trading for picks would be counterproductive.

if seguin is struggling in 2 years then come back for him and the last guy we dealt under that situation ended up costing 3 top picks in return. he was a contract problem too.

as for the suggestion spezza would be worth more then seguin... i think to ottawa he might be. spezza though seems to be a loser and seems to be horribly overpaid. im guessing his trade value on the open market will be comparible to what joe thornton fetched when boston unloaded him.

not a chance in hell Boston would even begin to consider spezza unless massive contract dumping was going back the other way {savard for starters}

if seguin was to be dealt, it would have to be for something we needed like a mega-stud dman that is affordable and ready to contribute huge right away. A Shea Weber name comes to mind as someone that seguin could be dealt for. A Duncan Keith or a Drew Doughty would be other names that seguin could be involved with in some sort of trade proposal.

unless a dman of this caliber is involved in the proposal, then Boston would have no realistic reason to consider a trade

i mean obviously if ovechkin/crosby/stamkos were being shopped then Boston would have to do the trade. Maybe a Hall/Seguin trade would have to be considered if offered {like Redden/Berard once upon a time}

there are some proposals that Boston would have to consider, but Spezza definitely isnt one of them... nor are any of Ottawa's dmen one-for-one
/thread

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01-23-2011, 10:00 AM
  #78
ArtemAnisimov42
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
Not a good start to your days on hf. They have some nice young pieces. They need a goalie.
the only two young pieces i would want from them is karlsson or cowan. and with the goalie situation, do you think robin lehner has a good future as and NHLer or no?

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01-23-2011, 10:09 AM
  #79
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Boston has no need, and no desire to trade Seguin. He's just not a player they are even remotely thinking about dealing. Everyone is movable, but #2 overall picks who are already playing in the NHL in their draft year just aren't moved this soon. When his first contract is up if there's some resigning problems... IDK maybe then something could happen, but that's a lot of ifs and it's way down the line.

Love Karlsson as a player, but just not a realistic move.

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01-23-2011, 12:16 PM
  #80
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If Boston trades Seguin, its for someone who can put them over the top right now. Seguin isn't an important part of the team at this point and by the time he is, the team could very well be on the way down and retooling. Thing about Karlsson is that he would step in an make an immediate impact, maybe enough for the Bruins to go all the way THIS YEAR.


The kids value has gone down slightly since he was drafted, simply because he hasn't made an immediate impact yet unlike some of the other picks (Fowler, Hall, Skinner). He's all potential, but has a very high ceiling. A one for one trade with Karlsson is probably as fair as it gets. Ottawa gets their future star forward (and drafts their new star swede defenseman in June) and Bruins get a guy who can help them win now and can replace Seguin this coming draft also with Toronto's pick.

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01-23-2011, 12:22 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Lisa Needs Braces View Post
If Boston trades Seguin, its for someone who can put them over the top right now. Seguin isn't an important part of the team at this point and by the time he is, the team could very well be on the way down and retooling. Thing about Karlsson is that he would step in an make an immediate impact, maybe enough for the Bruins to go all the way THIS YEAR.


The kids value has gone down slightly since he was drafted, simply because he hasn't made an immediate impact yet unlike some of the other picks (Fowler, Hall, Skinner). He's all potential, but has a very high ceiling. A one for one trade with Karlsson is probably as fair as it gets. Ottawa gets their future star forward (and drafts their new star swede defenseman in June) and Bruins get a guy who can help them win now and can replace Seguin this coming draft also with Toronto's pick.
this, That is well said and what I was trying to get accross. I don't blame Boston for not wanting to make that deal, but I thought he would be the peice to put them over the top.

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01-23-2011, 12:51 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa Needs Braces View Post
If Boston trades Seguin, its for someone who can put them over the top right now. Seguin isn't an important part of the team at this point and by the time he is, the team could very well be on the way down and retooling. Thing about Karlsson is that he would step in an make an immediate impact, maybe enough for the Bruins to go all the way THIS YEAR.


The kids value has gone down slightly since he was drafted, simply because he hasn't made an immediate impact yet unlike some of the other picks (Fowler, Hall, Skinner). He's all potential, but has a very high ceiling. A one for one trade with Karlsson is probably as fair as it gets. Ottawa gets their future star forward (and drafts their new star swede defenseman in June) and Bruins get a guy who can help them win now and can replace Seguin this coming draft also with Toronto's pick.
Seguin's value has not gone down because of how a few other players transitioned. Stamkos didn't blow anyone's socks off his first year. Tavares didn't blow anyone's socks off in his first year. No one loses value after playing half way through their rookie season at 18. Karlson would be a great addition to the B's for sure but he is not the difference between losing and winning the cup. Why exactly will the B's be retooling by the time Seguin is an important part of the team as you say?

Rask 23
Kampfer 21
Bergeron 24
Lucic 22
Horton 25
Krejci 24
Wheeler 23
Marchand 22
Seguin 18

That looks like a pretty good young core that could play together for a long time to come. This doesn't include any prospects or the two first rounders were sitting on for this draft. Yeah the Bruins look very very good going forward. They do need some good young d to add to that core and that's what this draft will do for them IMO.

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01-23-2011, 01:00 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa Needs Braces View Post
If Boston trades Seguin, its for someone who can put them over the top right now. Seguin isn't an important part of the team at this point and by the time he is, the team could very well be on the way down and retooling. Thing about Karlsson is that he would step in an make an immediate impact, maybe enough for the Bruins to go all the way THIS YEAR.
The kids value has gone down slightly since he was drafted, simply because he hasn't made an immediate impact yet unlike some of the other picks (Fowler, Hall, Skinner). He's all potential, but has a very high ceiling. A one for one trade with Karlsson is probably as fair as it gets. Ottawa gets their future star forward (and drafts their new star swede defenseman in June) and Bruins get a guy who can help them win now and can replace Seguin this coming draft also with Toronto's pick.
Seguin's value is fine right where it is, that is, the future face of the franchise. Boston can draft an equivalent value to Karlsson with their 2011 lottery pick, and keep the overall 2010 #2 pick to boot. No need for Boston to engineer Ottawa's retool here, as that task will be left up to Ottawa to figure out. Karlsson currently a -16 rating for a last place team, and not displaying the kind of franchise leadership ability that Boston would desire. Here's hoping the Ottawa rebuild goes well over the next several years.

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01-23-2011, 01:03 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa Needs Braces View Post
If Boston trades Seguin, its for someone who can put them over the top right now. Seguin isn't an important part of the team at this point and by the time he is, the team could very well be on the way down and retooling. Thing about Karlsson is that he would step in an make an immediate impact, maybe enough for the Bruins to go all the way THIS YEAR.


The kids value has gone down slightly since he was drafted, simply because he hasn't made an immediate impact yet unlike some of the other picks (Fowler, Hall, Skinner). He's all potential, but has a very high ceiling. A one for one trade with Karlsson is probably as fair as it gets. Ottawa gets their future star forward (and drafts their new star swede defenseman in June) and Bruins get a guy who can help them win now and can replace Seguin this coming draft also with Toronto's pick.




There are 3 teams right now below Ottawa in the standings. Probably won't stay that way til the end of the season but there's a good chance Edmonton will still be there and i promise you the Oilers will not pass on the opportunity of drafting Larsson. Edmonton are in desperate need of a star defenceman and Larsson could be exactly what this team is looking for in their rebuild. So unless Ottawa can offer a package for Edmonton's or another team ahead of them in the Lottery's first pick Ottawa can look elsewhere for their star swede dman.

Also, although you never know what could happen but as of right now there is no one in this year's draft that are on par with Seguin's potential or can replace what Seguin brings to the table. He was a toss up to go number 1 in a draft that would see more than a few guys who would go number 1 if they were drafted a year later. To say he can be replaced by Toronto's pick this year is just foolish.

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01-23-2011, 07:15 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
Seguin's value has not gone down because of how a few other players transitioned. Stamkos didn't blow anyone's socks off his first year. Tavares didn't blow anyone's socks off in his first year. No one loses value after playing half way through their rookie season at 18. Karlson would be a great addition to the B's for sure but he is not the difference between losing and winning the cup. Why exactly will the B's be retooling by the time Seguin is an important part of the team as you say?

Rask 23
Kampfer 21
Bergeron 24
Lucic 22
Horton 25
Krejci 24
Wheeler 23
Marchand 22
Seguin 18

That looks like a pretty good young core that could play together for a long time to come. This doesn't include any prospects or the two first rounders were sitting on for this draft. Yeah the Bruins look very very good going forward. They do need some good young d to add to that core and that's what this draft will do for them IMO.
When a player is drafted, the sky is the limit, they can be anything and most top 3 picks have the potential to be stars/franchise players. Whether that star is a Stamkos or a Malkin, or whether the player doesn't reach that potential and becomes a Wheeler or a Turris, one will never know. The further away from the draft you get, USUALLY the less the player is worth relative to when they were drafted (I'm talking about the top 3ish picks not a 7th rounder or something). This is why it is rare to see trades for the top 3 picks in the draft, they are just too valuable both cap wise and potential wise.

By saying that Seguin's value has dropped slightly, I meant very slightly. So far his offensive game isn't there. He's a young kid and he's way down the depth chart for the bruins obviously BUT there is now a higher risk that the offensive game never translates properly because we have seen a sample size of him in the NHL and there hasn't been much offense, only a flash here and there. That would be the only reason I would say he has dropped in value ever so slightly. Hopefully my paragraph made a touch of sense.


As for the Bruins in the future, one never knows. I was thinking more in the effect of in a few years, there is no Thomas, and Chara and Savard will be older. The three main important cogs for the Bruins the last few years (I know not this year for Savard). Say Seguin is 22 ish when he's an integral part of the team. At that time all those players you mentioned are 4 years older, many will have signed new more expensive deals or have been traded or signed elsewhere. With the cap system, most teams only have a short window for cup wins before the team is on the way down for whatever reason. From 2007, the Ottawa Senators are in terrible shape right now, 2007 was the year they needed to win and with Heatley/Spezza and good prospects, they looked like they would be pretty good in the future too. Last year, the Hawks won, but they had to trade away all their good secondary players to get under the cap in the off season. For the bruins, in my opinion, the next 2 or so years is their window to win and they should try and do everything to win during this window, or they may have to start again.

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01-23-2011, 08:41 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Lisa Needs Braces View Post
When a player is drafted, the sky is the limit, they can be anything and most top 3 picks have the potential to be stars/franchise players. Whether that star is a Stamkos or a Malkin, or whether the player doesn't reach that potential and becomes a Wheeler or a Turris, one will never know. The further away from the draft you get, USUALLY the less the player is worth relative to when they were drafted (I'm talking about the top 3ish picks not a 7th rounder or something). This is why it is rare to see trades for the top 3 picks in the draft, they are just too valuable both cap wise and potential wise.

By saying that Seguin's value has dropped slightly, I meant very slightly. So far his offensive game isn't there. He's a young kid and he's way down the depth chart for the bruins obviously BUT there is now a higher risk that the offensive game never translates properly because we have seen a sample size of him in the NHL and there hasn't been much offense, only a flash here and there. That would be the only reason I would say he has dropped in value ever so slightly. Hopefully my paragraph made a touch of sense.


As for the Bruins in the future, one never knows. I was thinking more in the effect of in a few years, there is no Thomas, and Chara and Savard will be older. The three main important cogs for the Bruins the last few years (I know not this year for Savard). Say Seguin is 22 ish when he's an integral part of the team. At that time all those players you mentioned are 4 years older, many will have signed new more expensive deals or have been traded or signed elsewhere. With the cap system, most teams only have a short window for cup wins before the team is on the way down for whatever reason. From 2007, the Ottawa Senators are in terrible shape right now, 2007 was the year they needed to win and with Heatley/Spezza and good prospects, they looked like they would be pretty good in the future too. Last year, the Hawks won, but they had to trade away all their good secondary players to get under the cap in the off season. For the bruins, in my opinion, the next 2 or so years is their window to win and they should try and do everything to win during this window, or they may have to start again.
It took Stamkos two years be become the heart of the Lightning. As you've said you never know. Those players will be 4 years older and Thomas will no longer be a goalie in the NHL IMO. In four years whoever The B's draft this year both with their pick and the leafs will be the next generation for the team. Not to mention Colborne, Garon and so on. The Hawks got into trouble because of the Campbell contract and the B's could face the same issue with the Chara contract. The difference being in four years they may no longer be a cba or cap. Who really knows. Either way the cap if still in place will have gone up a good bit by then. The main pieces on the B's team are already under pretty healthy contracts but who knows they may chase money elsewhere. But I like the way the team looks today and how they are positioned for the future.

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