He really doesn't. Dubinsky is much better. They both hit, they both hustle, they both play good D. Dubinsky is a much better offensive player, Dubinsky is much better with the puck on his stick, Dubinsky fights.
I like Callahan, but some people seem to like Callahan because everyone seems to really like Callahan. A team of Dubinskys would beat a team of Callahans everyday.
Yeah this is true. Thats why I think Cally gets something in the 3 Mil range, and Dubinsky gets something in the 4 mil range.
If we could get Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Boyle, Sauer, and Fedotenko for less than 13 Mil IMHO that would be a steal.
He really doesn't. Dubinsky is much better. They both hit, they both hustle, they both play good D. Dubinsky is a much better offensive player, Dubinsky is much better with the puck on his stick, Dubinsky fights.
I like Callahan, but some people seem to like Callahan because everyone seems to really like Callahan. A team of Dubinskys would beat a team of Callahans everyday.
I tend to agree. Look I love Cali, he's my favorite Ranger, but Dubinsky is better. They both hustle of course, but to me Callahan is more exclusively a hustle player. A good player, but not exactly Wayne Gretzky either. He makes up for it with his style of play, and although Dubinsky also plays that style, I think Callahan is a little better at playing Callahan hockey. A little better at blocking, defense, hitting. And being that he's wearing the A now, he's likely to be our next captain. Dubinsky on the other hand has more legit skill. He's bordering on all-star. Dubi has a little bit of Cali in him, and vice versa, which explains their chemistry, but when it comes right down to it, Callahan is a hustle player, and Dubinsky is a legit star player, and the star gets more money.
At some point next season, the Rangers are going to be in the market to make a 2-for-1 or 3-for-1, quantity for quality, type of trade. A young roster forward is going to have to be going in a deal like that. There are just too many complimentary forwards on the club, and eventually they're all going to want to get paid.
You can definitely rule out Callahan, Dubinsky. MZA, and Stepan. Prust doesn't really make sense in that kind of deal for the other team, either. That leaves Anisimov or Boyle. I'd be inclined to believe it would be the latter.
id be inclined to think it be anisimov. anisimov has a higher ceiling than boyle and would be another teams prefered player in a deal if we go for a number 1 center.
He really doesn't. Dubinsky is much better. They both hit, they both hustle, they both play good D. Dubinsky is a much better offensive player, Dubinsky is much better with the puck on his stick, Dubinsky fights.
I like Callahan, but some people seem to like Callahan because everyone seems to really like Callahan. A team of Dubinskys would beat a team of Callahans everyday.
The only aspects of the game in which Dubinsky is a superior player to Callahan are shot, passing and puckhandling, and that's not to put down Dubinsky, because he's a very solid all-around player.
But Callahan is much, much more than just a hustler. He's a significantly better defender than Dubinsky, much more likely to finish his checks, much better positional player, much better decision maker and most of all, more consistent, although to Dubinsky's credit his consistency has improved, little by little, every season.
If Callahan had Dubinsky's hands, he'd be a top 20 player in this league and an annual Selke contender, because he's one of the best defensive forwards in the game. There are maybe 5-10 forwards in the entire league that cause opposing teams as many problems defensively as Callahan does. He is a master at consistently forcing an opponent with the puck to make a mistake. He does it every shift, every time he steps out onto the ice, and he doesn't do that just with hustle. He does it with very, very smart play.
Dubinsky will make more money because he has better offensive numbers, but saying that he's a better or more important player than Callahan is really selling #24 short.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecemleafs
id be inclined to think it be anisimov. anisimov has a higher ceiling than boyle and would be another teams prefered player in a deal if we go for a number 1 center.
That wasn't the kind of deal I had in mind. No team is trading a #1 center for a package where either Anisimov or Boyle is the top piece going back. #1 centers don't get traded except for very extreme cases, or they are determined to leave a team VIA free agency.
The only aspects of the game in which Dubinsky is a superior player to Callahan are shot, passing and puckhandling, and that's not to put down Dubinsky, because he's a very solid all-around player.
But Callahan is much, much more than just a hustler. He's a significantly better defender than Dubinsky, much more likely to finish his checks, much better positional player, much better decision maker and most of all, more consistent, although to Dubinsky's credit his consistency has improved, little by little, every season.
If Callahan had Dubinsky's hands, he'd be a top 20 player in this league and an annual Selke contender, because he's one of the best defensive forwards in the game. There are maybe 5-10 forwards in the entire league that cause opposing teams as many problems defensively as Callahan does. He is a master at consistently forcing an opponent with the puck to make a mistake. He does it every shift, every time he steps out onto the ice, and he doesn't do that just with hustle. He does it with very, very smart play.
Dubinsky will make more money because he has better offensive numbers, but saying that he's a better or more important player than Callahan is really selling #24 short.
That wasn't the kind of deal I had in mind. No team is trading a #1 center for a package where either Anisimov or Boyle is the top piece going back. #1 centers don't get traded except for very extreme cases, or they are determined to leave a team VIA free agency.
anisimov wouldnt be the top piece. id imagine u'd have to include a 1st, and MDZ/grachev/kreider to get anyones attention. but id say if ur trying to trade for a number 1 center then that team would rather have anisimov. if ur not trading for a number 1 center or a number 1 dman then i dont see the point of making a trade.
Think the way to look at the Rangers center situation is that none of Stepan, Anisimov or Boyle are completely developed players and that in time they could--in some (if not in all) cases should be much more than they are right now. The question then becomes is any one of them a legit future 1st line center?--and Stepan IMO seems to be a very good candidate for that. Boyle IMO fits into a Bobby Holik/Joel Otto kind of role--keeping in mind this season he's showing a real goal scoring instinct beyond what a Holik or Otto ever showed and that he's even a larger--potentially more physically imposing player than either Otto or Holik. Anisimov at this point is more of a question mark but if we're setting are sights on him being a very good 2nd line center I think that is a very realistic projection.
At this point in time I'm not for moving any of them and projecting just a little bit into the future I don't see where moving any of them is going to fill some absolute need apart from a puck moving defenseman which should be covered by Del Zotto for the forseeable future anyway. My own opinion of Del Zotto is he has the goods--at the moment he needs to work on his defense and get his confidence back. So why move Anisimov or Boyle for some quick fix?--when we can do the quick fix by being more selective with the UFA process. Take care of our own players first and make additions later.
The only aspects of the game in which Dubinsky is a superior player to Callahan are shot, passing and puckhandling, and that's not to put down Dubinsky, because he's a very solid all-around player.
But Callahan is much, much more than just a hustler. He's a significantly better defender than Dubinsky, much more likely to finish his checks, much better positional player, much better decision maker and most of all, more consistent, although to Dubinsky's credit his consistency has improved, little by little, every season.
If Callahan had Dubinsky's hands, he'd be a top 20 player in this league and an annual Selke contender, because he's one of the best defensive forwards in the game. There are maybe 5-10 forwards in the entire league that cause opposing teams as many problems defensively as Callahan does. He is a master at consistently forcing an opponent with the puck to make a mistake. He does it every shift, every time he steps out onto the ice, and he doesn't do that just with hustle. He does it with very, very smart play.
Dubinsky will make more money because he has better offensive numbers, but saying that he's a better or more important player than Callahan is really selling #24 short.
For the most part I think this was actually really fair, until the last part. I think the difference between Dubi and Callahan's offensive abilities far exceeds the difference between their defensive abilities, making Dubi the far better of the two.
Be prepared for Sather to confound everybody on here in terms of the negotiations are handled.
Why?
The Rangers have done a good job with their group IIs. The players with arbitration rights will be done first and Artem Anisimov will be last. If those players have not been signed by July 5,they will file for salary arbitration creating a pressure point for both sides to make a deal.
- Dubinsky 4 years at $4 million/year
- Callahan 4 years at $3.5 million/year
- Anisimov 2 years at $1.7 million/year
- Boyle 2 years at $1.7 million/year
- Sauer 2 years at $1.00 million/year
Around $12 million to re-sign all players. Not too bad.
Can I just ask why Callahan deserves a $1M+ raise?
Yes, he might of (if not the injury) got more goals and points this year, but his game is pretty consistent from year to year. And with the injury to him this year, he might be hard pressed to find the net 20 times. If he keeps his PPG up, I can maybe see that much of a raise, but he probably won't.
Don't get me wrong, I love Callahan, but his game is pretty consistent in all categories and since that contract I'm not sure he's worthy of a $1M+ increase unless it's a long term deal.
I'd have no problems with a $3M-3.5M deal if it's for five years or so.
- Dubinsky 4 years at $4 million/year
- Callahan 4 years at $3.5 million/year
- Anisimov 2 years at $1.7 million/year
- Boyle 2 years at $1.7 million/year
- Sauer 2 years at $1.00 million/year
Around $12 million to re-sign all players. Not too bad.
Can I just ask why Callahan deserves a $1M+ raise?
Yes, he might of (if not the injury) got more goals and points this year, but his game is pretty consistent from year to year. And with the injury to him this year, he might be hard pressed to find the net 20 times. If he keeps his PPG up, I can maybe see that much of a raise, but he probably won't.
Don't get me wrong, I love Callahan, but his game is pretty consistent in all categories and since that contract I'm not sure he's worthy of a $1M+ increase unless it's a long term deal.
I'd have no problems with a $3M-3.5M deal if it's for five years or so.
well before the injury he was on pace for 59 points which is more than his usual 40 points.
whatever the contracts may be, i hope sather doesnt play his usual hardball and wait till days before training camp to get guys signed. im undecided on the whole richards thing but i would hope sather gets what he needs to get done as to not miss out on a possible bidding war. id hate for him to sell guys short by years etc to make space and still miss out on possibly getting richards. also i think our 5 FA's are priority one, from an organizational standpoint if sather went out and signed dubi and cali then richards then anisimov,boyle and sauer with the "left overs" it would look bad from an outside perspective and internally i think anisimov, boyle, and sauer would probably feel less important it would be demoralizing to know the current team wasnt good enough and the outside guy was more important that yourself (those three) and from other guys their teammates. but thats just my take on it.
also about signing anisimov mid-season? i think itd be a good confidence builder for the guy to know hes part of the future and maybe itll get him going. i also think we could get him for cheaper now rather than during july.
- Dubinsky 4 years at $4 million/year
- Callahan 4 years at $3.5 million/year
- Anisimov 2 years at $1.7 million/year
- Boyle 2 years at $1.7 million/year
- Sauer 2 years at $1.00 million/year
Around $12 million to re-sign all players. Not too bad.
I think you are overshooting on a bunch of these. Dubi should get around $3.75M-$4M (Staal money) and Cally should get $2.75M-$3M (though he might get Girardi money).
Anisimov, Boyle, and Sauer will all just receive small qualifying offers above their current salary. Welcome to Sather economics.
For the most part I think this was actually really fair, until the last part. I think the difference between Dubi and Callahan's offensive abilities far exceeds the difference between their defensive abilities, making Dubi the far better of the two.
If anything, it's the opposite. The difference between them defensively is much greater in favor of Callahan than the difference between them offensively, especially when you consider that Callahan has been playing at this high of a level for a while, while Dubi is just putting it all together this season, and needs to prove that he can maintain this kind of consistency in back to back seasons at least. Even this year, he still had a stretch of about 2 weeks where he wasn't doing much. Meanwhile, Callahan has maybe 1 or 2 "bad" games a season. He makes an impact pretty much every night.
Do you really think Boyle will want to take less money than Boogard?
This will be the downfall of one of those signings, and possibly future signings for the next few years. Boogaard was brought specifically for one reason, and Boyle has been doing Boo's job besides fighting, so all contracts will be judged upon Boogaard's performance and contract. Sad, but quite possibly true.
Dubi will sign a similar contract to Staal, imo. Just shy of 4M.
Callahan will get Girardi type money. 3~3.5M range.
Both Boyle and AA will get slightly under 2M.
Sauer won't get more than 1.5M.
Not sure what'll happen with Gilroy though. That's the only contract I can't figure out.
I think that Boyle and AA get approx. the same; around 1.6M/2 yrs. Boyle - because if the light went on on his career, thats a bonanza and AA because of his ceiling quotient.
Dubi and Callahan fall around 3.3M on 2yrs. Still have to keep players hungry for their next contract without hitting the ceiling.
Gilroys 1.7M current contract is already max out. Don't see an offer coming.
If I'm a competing GM I take your pitiable 1.5 and 1.7 mil Boyle proposals and send him an offer sheet of 2.1 or 2.25 mil. Then I send the Rangers a second rounder when he accepts.
He's worth more than the numbers being thrown around. Why would he take less?
The Rangers have done a good job with their group IIs. The players with arbitration rights will be done first and Artem Anisimov will be last. If those players have not been signed by July 5,they will file for salary arbitration creating a pressure point for both sides to make a deal.
I agree, they've done a solid job. Still by the time it's all said and done, I suspect you will have to peel a few folks around here off the ceiling.
If anything, it's the opposite. The difference between them defensively is much greater in favor of Callahan than the difference between them offensively, especially when you consider that Callahan has been playing at this high of a level for a while, while Dubi is just putting it all together this season, and needs to prove that he can maintain this kind of consistency in back to back seasons at least. Even this year, he still had a stretch of about 2 weeks where he wasn't doing much. Meanwhile, Callahan has maybe 1 or 2 "bad" games a season. He makes an impact pretty much every night.
I don't think either guy really makes many mistakes in his own end. Callahan probably makes more spectacular defensive plays, but neither guy will really have a lapse where they don't make a play they should have. Callahan offensively isn't anything more than a solid third liner. The past couple years he's been a 20-20 guy now. Dubinsky has improved every year and is showing he can be a top six forward. Last year if he played a full season he would have put up 24 goals, and 29 assist for 53 pts. This year before he got injured he was on pace for 30 goals and 37 assists for 67 pts. Besides numbers though, Dubinsky this year has always been noticeable. He's always been creating stuff offensively even when he went though a rough patch. Callahan has very little offensive creativity. The guy just throws shots on net whenever he can. He's got very little playmaking ability.
If Boyle hits 25 goals, which is still pretty attainable for him, with also how solid he has played all year, regardless what he did last year, i can see him getting 1.5-2 mil for 2 years, I doubt Boyle himself will want more years then that, so as long he keeps improving, he can really get a nice payday. He might seem to have a similar career as say Mike Knuble. A player who was a bottom 6 player, then found the right team, trained really hard and improved to the point that he can be a pereniall 25-30 goal scorer. I can see Boyle having a similar career as Knuble in that aspect of his game.
My Predictions are as follows:
Dubinsky: 4 years at 3.8 per
Callahan: 5 years at 3.4 per
Boyle: 2 years at 1.75 per
Anisimov: 2 years at 1.5 per
Sauer: 2 years at 1.3 per
