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Old
01-22-2011, 06:09 PM
  #26
wilfred
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
I disagree, they are gutting our future and I have never been a big Spezza fan.

Take off Johansen and take off Spezza, then I'd consider it
So Brassard clb1st and Voracek for Karlsson I'd do that

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01-22-2011, 06:46 PM
  #27
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I admit I have a little too much time on my hands this time of year. I think the value is fair and I also think it would help both teams. IMO CLB has to win now, yes they are giving up alot but so is Ottawa. Spezza/nash combination would be amazing and Karlsson on D enough said. Ottawa keeps Alfy in the organization to teach these young guys how to play hockey. Will it happen of course not, should it happen prob not, does it speark a good debate maybe

Can Ottawa lose Karlsson, Spezza I think they can.
Rundblad
Cowen
Phillips
Campoli
Gonchar
Carkner
Lee
Kuba
Wiercioch
Gryba
Ottawa has enough talent on D

Center
Brassard
Johansen
Fisher
Kelly
Winchester
good young center depth

Wingers:
Michalek
Alfy
Voracek
Foligno
Regin


Plus 2 top 10 draft picks where you can take the best player availiable because you have good prospects everywhere. I would pay money to see that team.
THIS would be a team i would LOVE to see but if there was a way to keep Karlsson and trade another D prospect or 2 then i would do this deal in a heartbeat. but without Karlsson involved, it prolly wont work

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Old
01-22-2011, 06:55 PM
  #28
wilfred
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Originally Posted by Robin Lehner View Post
THIS would be a team i would LOVE to see but if there was a way to keep Karlsson and trade another D prospect or 2 then i would do this deal in a heartbeat. but without Karlsson involved, it prolly wont work
Thank you, I agree I would love to have Karlsson on this team for 15 years. However I think making a deal like this fills more needs, Rundblad I think will turn into a similar player and with 2 top 10 picks Larsson or Murphy will be availiable.

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01-22-2011, 07:46 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by wilfred View Post
Thank you, I agree I would love to have Karlsson on this team for 15 years. However I think making a deal like this fills more needs, Rundblad I think will turn into a similar player and with 2 top 10 picks Larsson or Murphy will be availiable.
and with 2 top 10 picks we could get both Larsson/Murphy AND an offensive guy like Huberdeau, Barstchi, etc.
I just hope this deal could be done in real life

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01-22-2011, 08:16 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Robin Lehner View Post
and with 2 top 10 picks we could get both Larsson/Murphy AND an offensive guy like Huberdeau, Barstchi, etc.
I just hope this deal could be done in real life
Yeah, but we both know it would never happen, but that is the fun of HFboards

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01-23-2011, 01:13 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by wilfred View Post
Thank you, I agree I would love to have Karlsson on this team for 15 years. However I think making a deal like this fills more needs, Rundblad I think will turn into a similar player and with 2 top 10 picks Larsson or Murphy will be availiable.
Yeah and then 2 years from now, you'll trade Rundblad for the next great prospect.

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01-23-2011, 06:17 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Yeah and then 2 years from now, you'll trade Rundblad for the next great prospect.
you wasted post #5000 on that, congrats by the way

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01-23-2011, 10:19 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by wilfred View Post
you wasted post #5000 on that, congrats by the way
Thanks... I think . Not sure if it's good or bad to have 5k posts

And meh, I don't view post 5,000 as objectively better 4,999 or 5,001 .

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01-23-2011, 10:45 AM
  #34
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So Brassard clb1st and Voracek for Karlsson I'd do that
You might, but Howson hangs up laughing at this ridiculous deal.

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01-23-2011, 10:46 AM
  #35
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You might, but Howson hangs up laughing at this ridiculous deal.
Awesome since - as a Sens fan, I'd much rather Karlsson than any of those pieces.

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01-23-2011, 11:31 AM
  #36
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Awesome since - as a Sens fan, I'd much rather Karlsson than any of those pieces.
Well, yeah, but all 3 would be pretty steep. Both teams might say no.

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01-23-2011, 01:58 PM
  #37
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Well, yeah, but all 3 would be pretty steep. Both teams might say no.
Murray would be extremely stupid to say no. It's not like all 3 of Columbus' assets are that much of step down from Karlsson. Voracek is likely to have as much of an impact (obviously in a very different way) than Karlsson, and add Brassard AND a likely top-5 pick to that?

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01-23-2011, 02:11 PM
  #38
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Well, yeah, but all 3 would be pretty steep. Both teams might say no.
I dont think so. Voracek imo is at least gonna be a 65-70 pt 2way skilled winger. I'd estimate 85 as his peak. Brassard will be a perfect #2 behind Spezza and I see him as a 65 pt guy in his peak. Hard to say where the Jax will pick, but it looks to be between 6-9, that will be either Huberdeau, Murphy, Saad, Biggs, or Strome. All for Karlsson? I do that in a ****** millisecond.

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01-23-2011, 02:14 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
I dont think so. Voracek imo is at least gonna be a 65-70 pt 2way skilled winger. I'd estimate 85 as his peak. Brassard will be a perfect #2 behind Spezza and I see him as a 65 pt guy in his peak. Hard to say where the Jax will pick, but it looks to be between 6-9, that will be either Huberdeau, Murphy, Saad, Biggs, or Strome. All for Karlsson? I do that in a ****** millisecond.
Why? We've done quality for quantity once already. It'll just be the Heatley trade all over again.

If Karlsson is traded, I want an elite young winger or center coming back, and while Brassard is a solid 2nd line center and Voracek might be a first liner one day (though I'm always doubtful of Eastern European prospects), I'm not sold that there's the glamour to justify giving up the 20 year old all star. That says nothing of Columbus' motivations.

If we're trading Karlsson, someone like Giroux better be coming back.

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01-23-2011, 02:21 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
I dont think so. Voracek imo is at least gonna be a 65-70 pt 2way skilled winger. I'd estimate 85 as his peak. Brassard will be a perfect #2 behind Spezza and I see him as a 65 pt guy in his peak. Hard to say where the Jax will pick, but it looks to be between 6-9, that will be either Huberdeau, Murphy, Saad, Biggs, or Strome. All for Karlsson? I do that in a ****** millisecond.
Ahhh, great to finally see some rational thinking in this thread.

I just can't believe what that other Ottawa fan is holding onto.

As a Habs fan, believe me, I LOVE PK, but if I could have, say, Skinner, McBain and Carolina's 1st (very rough equivalent of the CBJ package), I would jump on it.

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01-23-2011, 02:25 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Why? We've done quality for quantity once already. It'll just be the Heatley trade all over again.

If Karlsson is traded, I want an elite young winger or center coming back, and while Brassard is a solid 2nd line center and Voracek might be a first liner one day (though I'm always doubtful of Eastern European prospects), I'm not sold that there's the glamour to justify giving up the 20 year old all star. That says nothing of Columbus' motivations.

If we're trading Karlsson, someone like Giroux better be coming back.
You're badly undervaluing CBJ's assets and also exaggerating Karlsson's value (he's not remotely good enough in his own zone yet to be considered a legitimate "All-Star").

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01-23-2011, 02:26 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
Ahhh, great to finally see some rational thinking in this thread.

I just can't believe what that other Ottawa fan is holding onto.

As a Habs fan, believe me, I LOVE PK, but if I could have, say, Skinner, McBain and Carolina's 1st (very rough equivalent of the CBJ package), I would jump on it.
Except:
1) Skinner > Voracek
2) McBain > Brassard
3) The 1sts are about the same.

Also, and this will piss off Habs fans:
Subban is a year older than Karlsson. He's more physically mature. He has 19 points in 44 games (5 goals).
Karlsson has 27 points (8 goals) in 47 games, and is on the all-star team.

Karlsson > Subban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
You're badly undervaluing CBJ's assets and also exaggerating Karlsson's value (he's not remotely good enough in his own zone yet to be considered a legitimate "All-Star").
Watch more Senators games. He's got great recovery skills, and is superb at positioning. The only thing holding him back is he needs to add muscle, which he will. By 22 or 23, he could be one of the best defenders, period, in the league.

His offensive skills are off the charts.

Honestly, while I agree people are prone to over valuing prospects, in this particular instance there is nothing to suggest Karlsson won't become a top 5 defender league wide. If you compare him to Duncan Keith (similar size/build), Karlsson is 2.5 years ahead of where Keith was at 23. Keith won the Norris this past year.

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01-23-2011, 02:37 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Except:
1) Skinner > Voracek
2) McBain > Brassard
3) The 1sts are about the same.

Also, and this will piss off Habs fans:
Subban is a year older than Karlsson. He's more physically mature. He has 19 points in 44 games (5 goals).
Karlsson has 27 points (8 goals) in 47 games, and is on the all-star team.

Karlsson > Subban.



Watch more Senators games. He's got great recovery skills, and is superb at positioning. The only thing holding him back is he needs to add muscle, which he will. By 22 or 23, he could be one of the best defenders, period, in the league.

His offensive skills are off the charts.

Honestly, while I agree people are prone to over valuing prospects, in this particular instance there is nothing to suggest Karlsson won't become a top 5 defender league wide. If you compare him to Duncan Keith (similar size/build), Karlsson is 2.5 years ahead of where Keith was at 23. Keith won the Norris this past year.
Sure, dude.

Karlsson is tied for 19th in D-scoring and is -16. If you think that makes him a shoe-in All-Star and that the fact no other Sens' players deserve to be there in front of him didn't play a role, please feel free.

Apart from manning the point on the PP, I'd take Subban over Karlsson in every other aspects of the game.

Karlsson is a stud though, a very beautiful player to watch.

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01-23-2011, 02:39 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
Sure, dude.

Karlsson is tied for 19th in D-scoring and is -16. If you think that makes him a shoe-in All-Star and that the fact no other Sens' players deserve to be there in front of him didn't play a role, please feel free.

Apart from manning the point on the PP, I'd take Subban over Karlsson in every other aspects of the game.

Karlsson is a stud though, a very beautiful player to watch.
Ottawa's on pace for the worst scoring in franchise HISTORY in goals - and Karlsson is 19th in scoring.... as a TWENTY YEAR OLD. That says something about his skill.

As to Subban, he's 6'3 / 220. That's not really a fair comparison when Karlsson is 6'0 / 175 at the moment. Let's re-evaluate when Karlsson is 6'0 / 185 which is what he should be.

I do agree with you on your point re: all-star game, but the fact he's easily the best on the Senators roster suggests it would be foolish to trade him - because if he hits the ceiling he's showing he might have, we would look stupid.

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01-23-2011, 02:40 PM
  #45
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Watch more Senators games. He's got great recovery skills, and is superb at positioning. The only thing holding him back is he needs to add muscle, which he will. By 22 or 23, he could be one of the best defenders, period, in the league.

His offensive skills are off the charts.

Honestly, while I agree people are prone to over valuing prospects, in this particular instance there is nothing to suggest Karlsson won't become a top 5 defender league wide. If you compare him to Duncan Keith (similar size/build), Karlsson is 2.5 years ahead of where Keith was at 23. Keith won the Norris this past year.
We all love our prospects. I watched a good chunk of Ottawa games in the past two years and the young Swede still has some huge holes in his D-game, whether you like it or not. I'm not saying his potential is only a PP specialist, but I'd wait a bit (e.g., several years) if I were you to compare him to a defensive stalwart like Keith.

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01-23-2011, 02:43 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
We all love our prospects. I watched a good chunk of Ottawa games in the past two years and the young Swede still has some huge holes in his D-game, whether you like it or not. I'm not saying his potential is only a PP specialist, but I'd wait a bit (e.g., several years) if I were you to compare him to a defensive stalwart like Keith.
The two have a lot of similarities. Keith is 27. You have to keep in mind that when comparing them. It's rare for young defensemen to be impact players at 20, because of the fact that it's harder to play defense at this level.... this is even more so when the player is smaller in stature. Karlsson is in the league because of his elite offensive skills and unbelievable wheels and recoverability.

While I agree he has some holes, he rarely makes the same mistake twice and on many nights is the all around best defenseman on the club.

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01-23-2011, 02:45 PM
  #47
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Ottawa's on pace for the worst scoring in franchise HISTORY in goals - and Karlsson is 19th in scoring.... as a TWENTY YEAR OLD. That says something about his skill.

As to Subban, he's 6'3 / 220. That's not really a fair comparison when Karlsson is 6'0 / 175 at the moment. Let's re-evaluate when Karlsson is 6'0 / 185 which is what he should be.

I do agree with you on your point re: all-star game, but the fact he's easily the best on the Senators roster suggests it would be foolish to trade him - because if he hits the ceiling he's showing he might have, we would look stupid.
I wish. He's only 6'0 though, but he's already a physical beast. Best conditioning on the Habs roster, and the best thing is that it looks like he's not even trying. I sometimes feel he could already be playing 30 minutes every single game even if he's only 21. I can't even dream of what it'll be like when he's 27.

This is specifically one of the many aspects that make me go for him rather than Karlsson. Especially if Markov comes back to the line-up healthy for the next few years, Subban is much more a needed asset for the Habs than Karlsson would be.

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01-23-2011, 02:52 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
I wish. He's only 6'0 though, but he's already a physical beast. Best conditioning on the Habs roster, and the best thing is that it looks like he's not even trying. I sometimes feel he could already be playing 30 minutes every single game even if he's only 21. I can't even dream of what it'll be like when he's 27.

This is specifically one of the many aspects that make me go for him rather than Karlsson. Especially if Markov comes back to the line-up healthy for the next few years, Subban is much more a needed asset for the Habs than Karlsson would be.
We can agree to disagree. I've never liked Subban, so I'm probably unfairly critical of his game. He always struck me as the kind of guy I hated. He's got leadership traits, but I don't like his style.

I prefer the soft-spoken confidence Karlsson exhibits; like, when he was drafted and he goes after being drafted and sits at the draft table . Or, when Clouston tells him he's an all-star, he says, "Me? Why?" .... I don't know. To each their own.

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01-23-2011, 03:06 PM
  #49
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We can agree to disagree. I've never liked Subban, so I'm probably unfairly critical of his game. He always struck me as the kind of guy I hated. He's got leadership traits, but I don't like his style.

I prefer the soft-spoken confidence Karlsson exhibits; like, when he was drafted and he goes after being drafted and sits at the draft table . Or, when Clouston tells him he's an all-star, he says, "Me? Why?" .... I don't know. To each their own.
Subban is literally fuelled by his passion for the game (and the fact he got drafted by his childhood team). In a hockey era where we constantly get fed with the same ol' boring clichés, I see Subban as a refreshing addition to this League, whether people like his style or not.

Also, as Canadian (I assume you are), you have to acknowledge his contribution to our last gold medal at the WJC. He had a major impact, both on and off the ice that year.

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01-23-2011, 03:08 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
Subban is literally fuelled by his passion for the game (and the fact he got drafted by his childhood team). In a hockey era where we constantly get fed with the same ol' boring clichés, I see Subban as a refreshing addition to this League, whether people like his style or not.

Also, as Canadian (I assume you are), you have to acknowledge his contribution to our last gold medal at the WJC. He had a major impact, both on and off the ice that year.
I guess. I really hated him at the WJC's he was at though. He was so frigging cocky.

You can have passion and still be humble. Take Peter Forsberg. Watch the interview from Friday (about him trying to practice with Colorado to see if he can come back)
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/12175540

That's passion. You don't need to be cocky.

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