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Old
01-23-2011, 08:35 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newoilsburnsclean View Post
How is that comparing was comparing points and you show up in every Oil proposal trolling every oil player as trash so you're posts have 0 merit you are a oil hater lol
What are you talking about? I have not "trashed" any Oiler player, I am merely stating that Enstrom is much better than Gilbert. Not "trashing", just simply stating facts.

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01-23-2011, 08:37 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
What are you talking about? I have not "trashed" any Oiler player, I am merely stating that Enstrom is much better than Gilbert. Not "trashing", just simply stating facts.
Obviously Enstrom is better than Gilbert. Who is disputing that?

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01-23-2011, 08:40 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
Obviously Enstrom is better than Gilbert. Who is disputing that?
That fellow there compared Enstrom's point totals to Gilbert's for some reason.

I'm still trying to figure out what the point of that was.

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01-23-2011, 08:40 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by sid49 View Post
You have to be kidding me. Tobias Enstrom is an excellent player, but your seriously saying that a potential 30-30 player in Eberle, and a Potential 50-50 in Hall are not worth a 15-50 defence man in the south east division.
Consider what ATL already has.

Kane: 40-40
Little: 30-40
Ladd: 25-40

Not to mention Burmistrov or Bergfors.


There's no chance ATL trades their best player/D, for small upgrades in their top6.


People need to understand that Enstrom brings A LOT more to the Thrashers than his point totals. Actually, his point totals might be close to the least important thing he does for them.

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01-23-2011, 08:44 PM
  #80
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I really thought some of us Atlanta posters had gotten word around about how good Enstrom is.

Guess not.

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01-23-2011, 08:57 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
I really thought some of us Atlanta posters had gotten word around about how good Enstrom is.

Guess not.
Yeah, guess all 10 of you will have to try harder next time.

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01-23-2011, 09:02 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
I really thought some of us Atlanta posters had gotten word around about how good Enstrom is.

Guess not.
Oiler fans do know how good Enstrom is, the OP did offer our most consistent top offensive producer ++ for him. Not saying the value was there, but he didn't offer spare tires and chopped liver either.

That being said, when a poster chimes in and says Enstrom is more value than Hall and Eberle combined, and would need Paajarvi as well just to have there GM consider it, that's just plain ridiculous.

As an Oiler fan I can agree that a Hall for Enstrom swap isn't what ATL would be looking for, but Thrasher fans need to acknowledge the fact that Hall, Eberle, and Paajarvi are a hell of a lot more valuable than they are being given credit for.

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01-23-2011, 09:42 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by ThePerfectStorm View Post
Oiler fans do know how good Enstrom is, the OP did offer our most consistent top offensive producer ++ for him. Not saying the value was there, but he didn't offer spare tires and chopped liver either.

That being said, when a poster chimes in and says Enstrom is more value than Hall and Eberle combined, and would need Paajarvi as well just to have there GM consider it, that's just plain ridiculous.

As an Oiler fan I can agree that a Hall for Enstrom swap isn't what ATL would be looking for, but Thrasher fans need to acknowledge the fact that Hall, Eberle, and Paajarvi are a hell of a lot more valuable than they are being given credit for.
I don't want to get into about what CK posted about Hall/Eberle and all. All those players involved being traded are just not plausible and I don't necessarily agree with his view on that. It's just too out there of a trade for me. Too risky for boths teams.

I was more referring to some other posts that suggest Gilbert=Enstrom or suggesting Enstrom only thrives on the PP and whatnot. Tonight's game was a perfect example of how much Enstrom anchors that defense as a whole.

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01-23-2011, 10:03 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
I don't want to get into about what CK posted about Hall/Eberle and all. All those players involved being traded are just not plausible and I don't necessarily agree with his view on that. It's just too out there of a trade for me. Too risky for boths teams.

I was more referring to some other posts that suggest Gilbert=Enstrom or suggesting Enstrom only thrives on the PP and whatnot. Tonight's game was a perfect example of how much Enstrom anchors that defense as a whole.
I agree with how valuable Enstrom really is to your team, and his value around the league in general.

In fairness though, the poster who compared Gilbert's point totals came after the Enstrom>Hall+Eberle comments. Sour grapes is all it was.

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Old
01-23-2011, 10:05 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citizen Kane View Post

Even if you packaged one of Paajarvi/Eberle with Hall, it would not be enough for Enstrom.

All three, and Dudley would have to strongly consider it, but let's face it, Tambellini would NEVER consider that.

Enstrom is one of the best defensemen in the entire NHL. This season, he has been second only to Lidstrom.
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01-23-2011, 10:21 PM
  #86
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And before you say "Learn the Western Conference" I watch as many oiler games as you do. And am an oiler fan. Thinking Hall is over-payment to get Enstrom is ignorant and no where near true. You guys would be getting a steal if ATL was dumb enough to do that.
Wow, Taylor Hall was drafted as a franchise player, straight into the NHL(no seasoning), Oilers management would never think of trading Hall or Eberle just for Enstrom. We have a Petry in the making as well, I'm really excited about Marincin as well

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01-23-2011, 10:27 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sid49 View Post
You have to be kidding me. Tobias Enstrom is an excellent player, but your seriously saying that a potential 30-30 player in Eberle, and a Potential 50-50 in Hall are not worth a 15-50 defence man in the south east division.
You mean the South East Division that has 3 teams in the playoff's, and a 4th one in 9th place?
Where out of 16 games against the south east he has 5 points against them?
And a combined 37 points in the other 34 games?

How about a minus 6 in the south east compared to the +8 against the other teams?

Don't go ragging on the south east division, or his stats if you aren't comparing to him against your main argument of being in the south east. It's foolish.

So yes, Right now he is worth more then Taylor Hall and Eberle.

"wah wah goaltending" Chris Mason has a 3.78 GAA and a 892 save percentage. WORSE then khabi and in less games. (3.48/892) (19 games for Mason compared to 31 to Khabi).

Thinking that right now Enstrom isn't worth the production and from defence mind you, you would get from Taylor Hall and Eberle, you are mistaken.

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01-23-2011, 10:38 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
Wow, Taylor Hall was drafted as a franchise player, straight into the NHL(no seasoning), Oilers management would never think of trading Hall or Eberle just for Enstrom. We have a Petry in the making as well, I'm really excited about Marincin as well
"Just" for Enstrom?

Also : 13 of the past 14 first overall choices have played in the NHL the following year (Could be more, But i don't remember phillips or berard).

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01-23-2011, 11:49 PM
  #89
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I'm sorry but for Enstrom to be a "Norris" candidate he might want to start logging some PK time. Power play specialists are not usually considered "great" defenseman. He's very one dimensional...not a physical guy(I know..neither is Lidstrom), not a big shot blocker, and not great with his stick defensively.
I can understand Atlanta not wanting to trade him, and I cringed as soon as I saw the proposal. But he will not be mentioned in the same breath as Lidstrom, Neidermayer, Chara, Pronger, ect

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01-23-2011, 11:56 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Power play specialists are not usually considered "great" defenseman. He's very one dimensional...not a physical guy(I know..neither is Lidstrom), not a big shot blocker, and not great with his stick defensively.
If you are going to accuse someone of not being a big shot blocker, I suspect you should at least check out their stats.....because if they happened to be 7th in the entire league in shots blocked(and Enstrom is) you might have some egg on your face.

Enstrom is a fantastic defenseman in his own end, just because he can rack up assists doesn't mean he is Mike Green.

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01-23-2011, 11:59 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by dat 9ga daz View Post
what would edmonton have to give up for bogosian ?
Nothing. We will pay you to take him.

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Old
01-24-2011, 12:11 AM
  #92
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If you are going to accuse someone of not being a big shot blocker, I suspect you should at least check out their stats.....because if they happened to be 7th in the entire league in shots blocked(and Enstrom is) you might have some egg on your face.

Enstrom is a fantastic defenseman in his own end, just because he can rack up assists doesn't mean he is Mike Green.
Ooops my bad...tied with Tom Gilbert. I never said he was horribly defensively...but he doesn't do anything exceptionally defensively to warrant being called a Norris candidate(top 2 dman in the league)

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01-24-2011, 12:18 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Ooops my bad...tied with Tom Gilbert. I never said he was horribly defensively...but he doesn't do anything exceptionally defensively to warrant being called a Norris candidate(top 2 dman in the league)
No, but you said he is very one-dimensional, isn't a good shot blocker, and is bad with his stick defensively. So you clearly don't think he is very good defensively. And i'm really wondering what you are basing this off of because I get the impression that you have never watched him play.

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01-24-2011, 12:22 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
No, but you said he is very one-dimensional, isn't a good shot blocker, and is bad with his stick defensively. So you clearly don't think he is very good defensively. And i'm really wondering what you are basing this off of because I get the impression that you have never watched him play.
Hmm how many take away's does Enstrom have where in the league does he rank in that category very important stat for Dmen more Important than blocked shots edit ranked 48 of defensemen Buff ranked num 1 in the Nhl mark my words Buff Norris candidate before Enstrom Small dmen have hard time stripping puck away in dzone

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01-24-2011, 12:30 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
No, but you said he is very one-dimensional, isn't a good shot blocker, and is bad with his stick defensively. So you clearly don't think he is very good defensively. And i'm really wondering what you are basing this off of because I get the impression that you have never watched him play.
19 Take aways vs. 22 give aways. Again.... I didnt say he was horrible(or bad), but for a defenseman to be considered a Norris candidate he would have to be exceptional at both ends of the ice. :56 of PK time does not scream great all around defenseman. Sorry that I disagree that Enstroms one of the top 2 defenseman in the league

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01-24-2011, 12:34 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Ashe View Post
"Just" for Enstrom?

Also : 13 of the past 14 first overall choices have played in the NHL the following year (Could be more, But i don't remember phillips or berard).
Yup, Hall is a beast and his value to Edmonton is like Stamkos to the Lightning, Tavares to the Islanders and Sid the kid is to the Pens. I do kind of understand how Atlanta Thrashers fans would feel, oh Byfuglien. I'm also excited for when Paajarvi get's more exposed around the league, the Oiler's will be getting respected sooner than later.

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01-24-2011, 01:07 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
I'm sorry but for Enstrom to be a "Norris" candidate he might want to start logging some PK time. Power play specialists are not usually considered "great" defenseman. He's very one dimensional...not a physical guy(I know..neither is Lidstrom), not a big shot blocker, and not great with his stick defensively.
I can understand Atlanta not wanting to trade him, and I cringed as soon as I saw the proposal. But he will not be mentioned in the same breath as Lidstrom, Neidermayer, Chara, Pronger, ect
No? Enstrom does play PK. And is how is covering up for buff one dimensional? He's got one of the best sticks and doesn't need to be "Physical" to be in position and be a great defender.

As pointed out, is also 7th in the league, and actually missed tonight due to a hand injury suffered on..wait for it..a blocked shot.

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01-24-2011, 01:09 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
19 Take aways vs. 22 give aways. Again.... I didnt say he was horrible(or bad), but for a defenseman to be considered a Norris candidate he would have to be exceptional at both ends of the ice. :56 of PK time does not scream great all around defenseman. Sorry that I disagree that Enstroms one of the top 2 defenseman in the league
So he doesn't intercept passes from the opponent...It doesn't mean he has a bad stick, blocked shots proves how good defensively he is, as well as watching his play sure does as well. He's in position. A Defensemen in Position shouldn't have a lot of Takeaways if he is playing in the right spot on the ice like he does.

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01-24-2011, 01:13 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
Yup, Hall is a beast and his value to Edmonton is like Stamkos to the Lightning, Tavares to the Islanders and Sid the kid is to the Pens. I do kind of understand how Atlanta Thrashers fans would feel, oh Byfuglien. I'm also excited for when Paajarvi get's more exposed around the league, the Oiler's will be getting respected sooner than later.
Yes..His -12 and .6? PPG sure is very beast mode this year. Not bad for an undersized forward who gets caught with his head down on occasion.

Stamkos has great talent around him.

Tavares hasn't done much in Long Island.(Yeah 30 goals is good with the talent around him..ie none), and mentioning Sid makes no sense, As He's the greatest player in the league.

You know how we feel? Do you? Because from what i am reading you really don't. Byfuglien would be nothing without Enstrom. He was paired with Oduya tonight, and looked lost and got exposed. Enstrom covers for those mistakes, and makes Byfuglien a feasible Defensemen.

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01-24-2011, 01:36 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by newoilsburnsclean View Post
Hmm how many take away's does Enstrom have where in the league does he rank in that category very important stat for Dmen more Important than blocked shots edit ranked 48 of defensemen Buff ranked num 1 in the Nhl mark my words Buff Norris candidate before Enstrom Small dmen have hard time stripping puck away in dzone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
19 Take aways vs. 22 give aways. Again.... I didnt say he was horrible(or bad), but for a defenseman to be considered a Norris candidate he would have to be exceptional at both ends of the ice. :56 of PK time does not scream great all around defenseman. Sorry that I disagree that Enstroms one of the top 2 defenseman in the league
It's really disappointing that this actually has to be explained about TKAs and GVAs. There is a reason defensemen never lead the league in takeaways and that only 2 guys are in the top 30 in the league. Defensemen aren't the ones going into the zone and trying to establish a forecheck. Their job is to keep the puck out of the opponents hands in their zone.

Takeaways for a defenseman just show how aggressive they tend to be. Enstrom is not particularly aggressive. He plays a more "keep it safe" style. It's giveaways that matter more with a defenseman. It shows how responsible with the puck they are and how much they tend to lose the puck in their zone. There's a reason that only Lidstrom has fewer giveaways then Enstrom of the guys with similar offensive numbers. If you don't understand what the GVA/TKA says about a player, I really don't know what to tell you.

Guess how much SH time Enstrom got his first 2 years. Over 3 minutes each season. It's not that he can't play on the PK, it's just that the coach doesn't put him out there that much. It could also explain part of the reason why our PK is so bad.

This is really getting old people commenting about Enstrom when they clearly have NEVER watched him play. Both of these posts clearly suggest neither of you have watched him. It can be really hard for people to take you seriously because of that and the fact that you suggest Buff is even in the same zip code as Enstrom. There is a reason our D looked so bad tonight.

And I pray, you don't think Letang is the 2nd best D-man in the league right now. As someone that has actually seen enough of Letang to give a decent opinion, his defense is not as good as Enstroms. His physical play is overrated and has, on more then one occasion, put him in a bad spot or out of position.

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