HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Senators decide to rebuild

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-24-2011, 08:30 AM
  #201
Andre Benoit Bawls
What, Me Worry?
 
Andre Benoit Bawls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,170
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Building what?

You entire team has 3 seasons left until every single one of them hits UFA, except Schenn (4 seasons) and Kadri (6 seasons). Teams are winning Cups by getting more value out of their teams than the salary cap allows by having good value players on ELC's (Staal, Getzlaf/Penner, Malkin, Toews/Kane, etc). Schenn's ELC expires this year and I doubt very much that Kadri would become good enough in two years to be the difference.

At best, your team could be worth 100% of it's cap value for those 3 years... but with Komisarek ($4.5), Phaneuf ($6.5M) and Tucker's $1.0M buyout on the cap for the next 3 seasons, I doubt it'll be anywhere near 100%.

In contrast, Ottawa could have Cowen, Rundblad, 2011 lottery pick, Lehner and Silfverberg starting ELC's for the next 3 seasons making peanuts.



Crosby, Ovechkin and Lundqvist?



With 7 year unrestricted free agency and a maximum for insured contracts also at 7 years... what does 10 years correspond to?
Jesus you know a lot. Great post and very well thought out, as per usual.
Thats the issue with trading all those draft picks. In 2014 they will likely have Kadri, Kessel, Versteeg, Kulemin, MacArthur, Schenn, Komisarek, Phaneuf, and maybe Grabovski. If the Leafs improve as much as they are supposed to, they MIGHT have one draft pick NHL ready by then, and adding that to that expensive core that isn't very good at all won't be enough. Of all those guys, the only ones I see having much room for improvement are Kessel, Kadri, and Kulemin. Additionally, they'll still be stuck having only one true 1st liner, and he's one dimensional as hell. Analyzing the UFA years shows that this team isn't even built that well for the future under the cap. Spending 11mil on what would be a decent 2nd pairing (Phaneuf, Komi) isn't to encouraging either.

Andre Benoit Bawls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 08:30 AM
  #202
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
what you say about the Leafs is true but you don't factor in the fact that we have all our draft picks starting in 2012 so by the time certin guys on the team hit UFA we could have if we develop properly a brand new batch of young players ready to fil the holes that the guys that are let go will leave.

You also don't factor in with so many guys hitting UFA at the same time that opens up A LOT of cap space if we choose to go that route.

nice try but all you did is prove we aren't in as bad a position as most think.


Your making one of the poorest situation in the league sound like it'll be easy. Dion Phaneuf and Phil Kessel aren't winning anything until the Leafs acquire or cultivate players that are better than those two...several players to get anywhere meaningful.



Have some more, bro.

Minister of Offence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 08:31 AM
  #203
Cujomi
YNWA
 
Cujomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,909
vCash: 500
Yeah, Spezza is definitely not moving. As a core the players we're definitely keeping are:

Spezza
Karlsson
Foligno
Michalek
Kelly
Neil
Lee
Cowen
Rundblad
Winchester
Smith
Butler
Silfverberg

From there it gets blurry, but guys we're almost definitely looking to move are Kuba, Phillips, Kovalev, Fisher and maybe Alfredsson. Gonchar could move to a cup contender as well for a decent return. He's not nearly as bad as has been shown this season.

Anyway, here are some of my proposals...

NASHVILLE

To Nashville:
Fisher

To Ottawa:
Taylor Beck
Marcel Goc
3rd

VANCOUVER

To Vancouver:
Alfredsson
2nd

To Ottawa:
Samuelsson
Schroeder
1st

BOSTON

To Boston:
Gonchar+

To Ottawa:
Zack Hammill
1st (BOS)
Salary Dump

Cujomi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 08:34 AM
  #204
Alberta Oilfire
Registered User
 
Alberta Oilfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 482
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Stortini and Brule for Neil

Calgary's 1st, Jokinen, and Nemisz for Spezza
Ok sens fans Edmonton would be very interested in Neil. This Stortini and Brule for Neil looks good to me, what do sens fans think of this offer?

Alberta Oilfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 08:38 AM
  #205
ClasslessGuy
Registered User
 
ClasslessGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St-Jean, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,272
vCash: 500
Volchenkov > Gonchar ....

ClasslessGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 08:40 AM
  #206
Andre Benoit Bawls
What, Me Worry?
 
Andre Benoit Bawls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,170
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta Oilfire View Post
Ok sens fans Edmonton would be very interested in Neil. This Stortini and Brule for Neil looks good to me, what do sens fans think of this offer?
No thanks.
I'd be interested in the equivalent of a 2nd+ a bit. 2 years ago at the deadline Detroit offered a 2nd+Howard so think similar to that... although obviously Howard was not anywhere near as valuable back then.
I'd ask for Omark or Pitlick to be honest. A steep price would have to be paid to get Neil.

Andre Benoit Bawls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 08:44 AM
  #207
ClasslessGuy
Registered User
 
ClasslessGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St-Jean, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
No thanks.
I'd be interested in the equivalent of a 2nd+ a bit. 2 years ago at the deadline Detroit offered a 2nd+Howard so think similar to that... although obviously Howard was not anywhere near as valuable back then.
I'd ask for Omark or Pitlick to be honest. A steep price would have to be paid to get Neil.
3rd pick and Weber

ClasslessGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 08:46 AM
  #208
alpine4life
Registered User
 
alpine4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,437
vCash: 500
wE HAD A GREAT RUN

1996-10: 1066GP / 555W / 356L / 92T / 63OL / 1265PTS / 0.593W% / 12/13 PO Appearances

alpine4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 08:52 AM
  #209
Bileur
Registered User
 
Bileur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,700
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Management View Post
It'll be interesting to see how Ottawa goes about this.

Will they be preferably looking for picks, or young roster players?

If they intend to build around Spezza, will a haul of second, third, and fourth round picks really be of much assistance given how long it could take those players to develop, if they develop at all? This year's draft pick could certainly be a nice building block for Ottawa, but I'll be curious to see how they plan to insulate their big-ticket player while he's still in his "prime" (not a word I like to use, but he's still on the fresh side of thirty and ideally has more value because of it).
Interesting questions. There are many questions surrounding this team, as with any rebuilding team. But the key for the senators, the biggest question mark, and the one aspect that can possibly set them apart from other rebuilding team is Jason Spezza.

1) Is he, or will he be good enough to lead this team? I think Spezza's talent is undeniable. His effort between seasons is evident. Will he take it to the next level. This situation (in terms of leadership) reminds me a little of the transition between Yashin and Alfredsson. At the time Alfredsson was named captain there were many questions about him as well (fewer than there are about Spezza), he did not even want the C. Spezza's improved effort on the defensive side gives me hope, but can he find the effort and consistency to do it on the defensive end while still being the catalyst on the offensive end? It remains to be seen.

2) Even if he can be the leader, on offense, defense and in the lockerroom, will he ever be healthy enough to take over that role on a contender? This is a huge question with Spezza.

3) If he does develop in the ideal way, will he be willing to stick around through the whole long and painful process? I'd understand not wanting to stick around. I also think going through it will make him a better player in the long run.

Because of all the uncertainty with the future of the leadership on this team i'd be very interested in drafting Landeskog as an insurance policy.

It should be very interesting to see how this team goes about the rebuild.

Bileur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 08:55 AM
  #210
Vasilevskiy
I've many surnames
 
Vasilevskiy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Barcelona
Country: Spain
Posts: 8,721
vCash: 500
Tampa could be interested in Philips

Vasilevskiy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 09:03 AM
  #211
Afro Thunder*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,653
vCash: 500
Meh we had a great decade, could have saw this coming.

It's not going to be as bad of rebuild that many here think like Edmonton, we already have a bunch of assets we could trade away for something decent back (Fisher, Philips, Gonchar, Kovalev, Campoli, and maybe Alfie) while already in our line up we don't have to search for a #1C (Spezza) and a #1D(Karlsson), some great prospects coming up from the farm like Rundblad, Cowen and Silverberg and the top 3 pick for this year etc, we shouldn't be that far off from contending for a playoff spot again.

Afro Thunder* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 09:05 AM
  #212
Andre Benoit Bawls
What, Me Worry?
 
Andre Benoit Bawls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,170
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by chubaka View Post
3rd pick and Weber
I'm going to go ahead and assume you are a Habs fan and not a Preds fan, so I'm gonna say no to that... but I'd do it for Danny Kristo. Or Palushaj/Bournival+3rd/4th.

Andre Benoit Bawls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 09:06 AM
  #213
Andre Benoit Bawls
What, Me Worry?
 
Andre Benoit Bawls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,170
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Afro Thunder View Post
Meh we had a great decade, could have saw this coming.

It's not going to be as bad of rebuild that many here think like Edmonton, we already have a bunch of assets we could trade away for something decent back (Fisher, Philips, Gonchar, Kovalev, Campoli, and maybe Alfie) while already in our line up we don't have to search for a #1C (Spezza) and a #1D(Karlsson), some great prospects coming up from the farm like Rundblad, Cowen and Silverberg and the top 3 pick for this year etc, we shouldn't be that far off from contending for a playoff spot again.
I'd say within 3 years we will be a playoff contender on the upswing.

Andre Benoit Bawls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 09:14 AM
  #214
alpine4life
Registered User
 
alpine4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
I'd say within 3 years we will be a playoff contender on the upswing.
3 years is a bit quick if they choose to fully rebuild but if we can achieve that I'll be glad. (please no more than 2 years bottom 5)

alpine4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 09:14 AM
  #215
Laoghaire
Registered User
 
Laoghaire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
I'm going to go ahead and assume you are a Habs fan and not a Preds fan, so I'm gonna say no to that... but I'd do it for Danny Kristo. Or Palushaj/Bournival+3rd/4th.
What's the big deal with Kristo?

Laoghaire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 09:20 AM
  #216
Beerfish
Registered User
 
Beerfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,684
vCash: 500
This is one of the few times I'm going to use the infamous words "Why would anyone want..." But why would any team give up anything of significance for Gonchar? He looked bad in the playoffs last year, he supposedly has not played well this year, he has two more years after this at 5.5 million. I can see some Senators having good trade value but if I was a gm I wouldn't go after Gonchar unless the price was very cheap.

Beerfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 09:21 AM
  #217
ClasslessGuy
Registered User
 
ClasslessGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St-Jean, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laoghaire View Post
What's the big deal with Kristo?

Bournival and a 3rd / Kristo and a 4rth or 5th

seems to be fair

ClasslessGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 09:22 AM
  #218
Andre Benoit Bawls
What, Me Worry?
 
Andre Benoit Bawls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,170
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laoghaire View Post
What's the big deal with Kristo?
Nothing really, I just think I'd give up Neil for him. He's a very good skater, pretty high potential offensively, kinda gritty... I really think he will be a good 50ish point winger. If not, he still looks like a guy who will be good at killing penalties and will be able to be really effective in playing a 3rd line roll in the future. I'm not super high on him but I am very convinced he will be an NHLer

Andre Benoit Bawls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 09:26 AM
  #219
SensFan2010
Registered User
 
SensFan2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 703
vCash: 500
I think fair value for Spezza would be a blue-chip forward prospect and top-10 draft pick. Something like Ryan Johansen and CLB 1st. But after the season he's having, we aren't getting that kind of package so we'll just keep him for another season. If we are trading Spezza, we would already have his replacement (Nugent-Hopkins, Couturier) or it would coming back in that trade. That's the only way we're trading him.

SensFan2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 09:35 AM
  #220
kolider
Registered User
 
kolider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,159
vCash: 500
Yeah, the Spezza trade options could probably stop. He is a #1C who's value is horribly low. I really wouldn't trae him. I also wouldn't move Gonchar either since I may be one of the few who thinks he can help the younger D-corps out and have a veteran presence on the blueline.

The team has been so bad that an offensive guy like Gonchar will look pretty bad as well. Basically the general offense isn't there so his expected offensive numbers also will be poor and we give up so much on the defensive end that his +/- will be even crappier than usual. In other words, the Senators season has been so abysmal that it isn't shocking as to what Gonchar's numbers currently sit at.

kolider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 10:30 AM
  #221
Ceekay
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfredsson11 View Post
I agree that he will be attractive to some teams, but Murray will just be happy to get him off the books so I don't see a big return for him.

He will be traded not to bring in prospect(s), moreso just to save Melynk some money
for 1-2 months? Not saving him much -- maybe 1 mil. Kovalev has no contract after this year. That being said, I still don't expect him to garner much in return. Maybe a 3d.

Ceekay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 10:39 AM
  #222
zeus3007*
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 13,228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outrageous Leafs Fan View Post
Dibs on Spezza
Spezza is young enough that he will likely not be shopped in this rebuild. And he would certainly not be offered to Toronto, Murray isn't in the business of doing Burke favors.

zeus3007* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 10:47 AM
  #223
alpine4life
Registered User
 
alpine4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
...but if I was a gm I wouldn't go after Gonchar unless the price was very cheap.
Having seen most of Ottawaw's game this year, I agree with you on that one (35+ 5.5M per for 2 more seasons)

I say at most a 3rd rounder, and at that value I think the Sens will keep him.

alpine4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 10:51 AM
  #224
alpine4life
Registered User
 
alpine4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Spezza is young enough that he will likely not be shopped in this rebuild. And he would certainly not be offered to Toronto, Murray isn't in the business of doing Burke favors.
they'll probably ask him how he feels about it, and if he doesnt want to be part of it they'll move him (but all depending on what's coming back in return)

alpine4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2011, 10:52 AM
  #225
zeus3007*
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 13,228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine4life View Post
they'll probably ask him how he feels about it, and if he doesnt want to be part of it they'll move him (but all depending on what's coming back in return)
I agree, what I meant was, that the Sens aren't going to give Spezza away for nothing, or anything from Toronto that doesn't include Luke Schenn in the deal...and even then, maybe not.

zeus3007* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:08 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.