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Old
01-24-2011, 11:12 AM
  #26
DropIt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatlender View Post
Why is Backlund untouchable? Just because he's young? There's little indication that he'll ever become more than an average to above average 2nd line center. If you can get a good deal for him I'd think you'd move him without hesitation. Unless I'm really missing something.
If you watch Backlund with the puck, his confidence, mobility, creativity. It actually looks like he has a bright future ahead of him. There are comparisons that have him becoming a Mikko Koivu lite kind of player and could turn into a good, 2 way centreman.


If you look around the league, 2nd line C are becoming a hot commodity. Kesler, Krejci/Bergeron, Carter, Fisher, Pavelski, etc.
I think if a mind 1st round pick, at the age of 22 can look to have 2nd line C ability with 1st lince C potential then his value is quite good.

I agree that he isnt 'undtradeable' but for 2 reasons he wont be traded.
1) Calgary's lack of offensive talent in prospects
2) The fact that you would likely not garner what Backlund could become. If you could get a good 1/2 centreman back for him, then sure

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01-24-2011, 11:14 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Goatlender View Post
Why is Backlund untouchable? Just because he's young? There's little indication that he'll ever become more than an average to above average 2nd line center. If you can get a good deal for him I'd think you'd move him without hesitation. Unless I'm really missing something.
Well I would do the same but Flames Fan REALLY overrate him because I guess he is the only good prospect we have.

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Old
01-24-2011, 11:15 AM
  #28
Mr Forever
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I also left out Nicklas Backstrom



I'd seriously put Kipprusoff in a category with guys like JS Gigeure and Brian Boucer for similar value.


So my final list of goalies with higher value than Kipprusoff:

Tim Thomas
Pekke Rinne
Henrik Lundqvist
Tuukka Rask
Jonas Hiller
Tomas Vokun
Rob Luongo
Cam Ward
MA Fleury
Ilya Bryzgalov
Jonathan Quick
Ryan Miller
Carey Price
Jaroslav Halak
Nicklas Backstrom



All of these guys dominate Kipper in GAA SAV% ans wins this year.
Honorable mentions to guys I would rather have because of their contract and/or age:

Cory Schneider
Semyon Varlamov
Sergei Bobrovski
Evgeni Nabokov
Devan Dubnyk ( not even because I'm on oilers fan)
Brian Boucher
Craig Anderson

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Old
01-24-2011, 11:16 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrForever View Post
Honorable mentions to guys I would rather have because of their contract and/or age:

Cory Schneider
Semyon Varlamov
Sergei Bobrovski
Evgeni Nabokov
Devan Dubnyk ( not even because I'm on oilers fan)
Brian Boucher
Craig Anderson
Alright, we get it.

you dont know what your talking about, nice schtick, but your overdoing it a bit

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Old
01-24-2011, 11:18 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by DropIt View Post
If you watch Backlund with the puck, his confidence, mobility, creativity. It actually looks like he has a bright future ahead of him. There are comparisons that have him becoming a Mikko Koivu lite kind of player and could turn into a good, 2 way centreman.


If you look around the league, 2nd line C are becoming a hot commodity. Kesler, Krejci/Bergeron, Carter, Fisher, Pavelski, etc.
I think if a mind 1st round pick, at the age of 22 can look to have 2nd line C ability with 1st lince C potential then his value is quite good.

I agree that he isnt 'undtradeable' but for 2 reasons he wont be traded.
1) Calgary's lack of offensive talent in prospects
2) The fact that you would likely not garner what Backlund could become. If you could get a good 1/2 centreman back for him, then sure
Carter, Pavelski and Kesler is a 2nd line C is because they are playing behind players that are a little bit better then them except for Pavelski. But if second line C are hot commodity's then Stajan and Jokinen should be hot commodity's right? I would take "ANY" of those guys mentioned over all 3 of my guys i mentioned.

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Old
01-24-2011, 11:19 AM
  #31
Mr Forever
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Originally Posted by DropIt View Post
Alright, we get it.

you dont know what your talking about, nice schtick, but your overdoing it a bit
I don't know what I'm talking about because I've named off every single goalie with better numbers and a more reasonable contract than your goalie...? Tell me where I'm going wrong?

It's not like I put any horrible goalies in my list. I went by the numbers, all of them.

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Old
01-24-2011, 11:21 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrForever View Post
Honorable mentions to guys I would rather have because of their contract and/or age:

Cory Schneider
Semyon Varlamov
Sergei Bobrovski
Evgeni Nabokov
Devan Dubnyk ( not even because I'm on oilers fan)
Brian Boucher
Craig Anderson
Why is Schneider there? Because he has done good this past season? Who knows he could lose all his starts next year would he still be up there? Same with Bobrovsky not proven yet. Nabokov would be the only up there that i would say is close to the same talent as Kipper

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Old
01-24-2011, 11:23 AM
  #33
Mr Forever
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Originally Posted by Remember2004 View Post
Why is Schneider there? Because he has done good this past season? Who knows he could lose all his starts next year would he still be up there? Same with Bobrovsky not proven yet. Nabokov would be the only up there that i would say is close to the same talent as Kipper
Did you not read, because of AGE and contract. I'm talking about value here. What team going on a run can shell out 6 mil for a goalie who's completely lost his touch? Not to mention, he isn't young. He wouldn't be a reclamation project. Any team that gives up anything for this washed up goalie would be making the same mistake the Oilers did with Khabibulin.

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01-24-2011, 11:28 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrForever View Post
Honorable mentions to guys I would rather have because of their contract and/or age:

Cory Schneider
Semyon Varlamov
Sergei Bobrovski
Evgeni Nabokov
Devan Dubnyk ( not even because I'm on oilers fan)
Brian Boucher
Craig Anderson
If your going by contract, its a no **** consideration. Most of those guys are on ELC's or rookie style deals. Nabokov couldn't even put up good stats in the KHL. The fact that you would take Brian Boucher over Kipper shows just how little you know. If I was picking between those goalies and Kipper with a team going on a cup run, I'd take Kipper every time.

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Old
01-24-2011, 11:29 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
pretty sure Kipper is moveable he's a top 10 goalie in the NHL EASILY and could even be top 5
How is he top 10 right now? He's not cracking the top 40 in stats. And the guy makes over 7 million per. No one will take that contract.

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Old
01-24-2011, 11:32 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Flames Fanatic View Post
If your going by contract, its a no **** consideration. Most of those guys are on ELC's or rookie style deals. The fact that you would take Brian Boucher over Kipper shows just how little you know.
How little I know, buddy seriously.

Look at the numbers here. Why would ANYONE want Kiprusoff now? Get over 2004, it was fun and great and all, but he isn't good anymore. This is like me saying Dwayne Roloson is still a top flight goalie because of our run in 2006.

If we're going by success a few years ago and comparing Boucher to Kipper, I could bring up the Shut Out streak.


Seriously, at the deadline most teams going on a run would rather take Boucher for nothing than a washed up goalie that only flames fans think is good because their penises haven't softened since a fly b y night play off run. Compare their numbers and compare their salaries, then we'll see who doesn't know anything.



If you think Kipper is better than Nabokov at .500 mil, you are from Calgary.

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01-24-2011, 11:35 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remember2004 View Post
Carter, Pavelski and Kesler is a 2nd line C is because they are playing behind players that are a little bit better then them except for Pavelski. But if second line C are hot commodity's then Stajan and Jokinen should be hot commodity's right? I would take "ANY" of those guys mentioned over all 3 of my guys i mentioned.
yeah, champ. There are better players then others in the league, good observation.

Its pretty easy to argue that Stajan and Jokinen are closer to 3rd line centreman than they are 2nd line centres.

Im not even sure what you are arguing at this point...

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01-24-2011, 11:37 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by MrForever View Post
How little I know, buddy seriously.

Look at the numbers here. Why would ANYONE want Kiprusoff now? Get over 2004, it was fun and great and all, but he isn't good anymore. This is like me saying Dwayne Roloson is still a top flight goalie because of our run in 2006.

If we're going by success a few years ago and comparing Boucher to Kipper, I could bring up the Shut Out streak.


Seriously, at the deadline most teams going on a run would rather take Boucher for nothing than a washed up goalie that only flames fans think is good because their penises haven't softened since a fly b y night play off run. Compare their numbers and compare their salaries, then we'll see who doesn't know anything.



If you think Kipper is better than Nabokov at .500 mil, you are from Calgary.
If you think Boucher is better than Kipprusoff, you are from Edmonton. and one that looks only at stats. If you want to bring up Boucher's 'shut out streak', then we can bring up the fact that as of just last year, Kipprusoff had THE MOST wins in the NHL since the lockout. and other than Nabokov was the only consistant 40 win/season goalie in the NHL

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Old
01-24-2011, 11:43 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Flames Fanatic View Post
Since you know, playing for a terrible team won't affect your numbers at all....

Typical HF stats fan.
Kiprusoff was fantastic last year on a terrible Flames team. For the last month or so he himself has been quite bad.

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01-24-2011, 11:43 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by DropIt View Post

Its pretty easy to argue that Stajan and Jokinen are closer to 3rd line centreman than they are 2nd line centres.
Jokinen has by no means looked like a 3rd line centre. He got off to an awful start, is totally snake bitten, and is playing on an offensively inconsistent team. He is now top 40 for centres for poitns and climbing. There aren't many points separating 25-40 overall centres. I think Jokinen will probably finish in the 25-30 range if he keeps up anything close to his current pace.

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Old
01-24-2011, 11:45 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DropIt View Post
If you think Boucher is better than Kipprusoff, you are from Edmonton. and one that looks only at stats. If you want to bring up Boucher's 'shut out streak', then we can bring up the fact that as of just last year, Kipprusoff had THE MOST wins in the NHL since the lockout. and other than Nabokov was the only consistant 40 win/season goalie in the NHL
When did I say he was better. No, I said his contract is more favorable making his value higher. I'm pretty sure Joe Thornton has the most points since the Lock out, does that make him the best player? Jaromir Jagr is also 12th, does he have a higher value than Eric Staal who's at 16th...?


What happened a few years ago doesn't matter now. His value is low because he's a major part of the flames sinking ship.

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Old
01-24-2011, 11:58 AM
  #42
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In terms of Bouwmeester, untouchable interesting term...not sure that contract isn't untradeable.

I don't see any love for Jokinen. Just having that face in your line-up is good for lots of PR. Think of the threads with your team's logo displayed as "Turkey Girl 8" or "Son of Nike Kick" or similar is launched.

Oh, and Iginla to Boston for their first and prospect not in NHL.

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Old
01-24-2011, 12:06 PM
  #43
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The only untouchable is Tim (Sidney Crosby) Jackman, if you can believe that.

What a fantastic addition he has been to our lineup. One of the best free agent signings of the past summer.

Why did the Isles let this guy go?

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01-24-2011, 12:26 PM
  #44
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I'm pretty sure Flames fans will do this but not sure about Canuck fans both Tanguay and Morrison expires at the end of the season
I don't see that as a bad thing at all since it gives Canucks more flexibility in regards to whether they want to keep them pass the 2011 season

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Whitbread View Post
Vancouver's first round draft pick very likely isn't in play, with Vancouver not having a draft pick till the fifth round last year. Otherwise, I think Tanguay is an adequate player, but certainly not a guy to push you over the top. Doesn't he have a NMC anyway? Morrison is just bad, and I wouldn't want him anywhere near the team at this point in his career.
Tanguay has 35pts in 49 games(would rank 4th on the Canucks) and Morrison has 25pts - pretty impressive numbers given that they play on the Flames. They are far better options than having Bolduc on the 4th line and Tambellini/Shirokov on the 2nd line with Kesler.

This will give the Canucks' second line some resembles of a offensive threat outside of Kesler.

Also Canucks first pick was in the 4th round and as hard as it is to trade away a 1st round draft pick I think that the emergence of Tanev and B. Sweatt and potential NHL players makes it manageable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DropIt View Post
I really dont think that Morrisson is bad. He has been playing pretty well this season, especially given his cap hit. He will likely be moved at the deadline as any team (cap or salary) can acquire him and barely pay him any thing at all.

Given the Cancuks' depth, he may not fit well there as he would be a 4th line C, but I could see a team like Nashville having some interest in an experienced Centreman who is actually very multi-dimensional. From playing with younger players on the third line, to recently being a good fit with Iginla on the top line

It depends how you view the lineup. Morrison can be the 3rd center with Malhotra being the 4th line center while still playing big PK minutes and taking all the important faceoffs.


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Old
01-24-2011, 12:35 PM
  #45
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Jokinen has by no means looked like a 3rd line centre. He got off to an awful start, is totally snake bitten, and is playing on an offensively inconsistent team. He is now top 40 for centres for poitns and climbing. There aren't many points separating 25-40 overall centres. I think Jokinen will probably finish in the 25-30 range if he keeps up anything close to his current pace.
Jokinen has had awful starts how many years in a row? I have heard that he is snake bitten ever since he was traded from the Panthers.

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01-24-2011, 12:38 PM
  #46
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To Columbus: Regehr, Babchuk
To Calgary: Hejda, CBJ 2nd 2011, CBJ 3rd 2011, you-know-who (for salary purposes)

To Nashville: Morrison
To Calgary: NSH 2nd 2011


I'm not sure of the value for the Columbus trade; the problem is that the first-rounder simply isn't in play. Howson doesn't trade 'em unless he has a spare.

Obviously, both deals hinge on the idea that Calgary needs to do some drafting.

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01-24-2011, 12:51 PM
  #47
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Jokinen has had awful starts how many years in a row? I have heard that he is snake bitten ever since he was traded from the Panthers.
That maybe so, but he is still 40th overall in points for centres and climbing quickly. Not a chance he is considered a 3rd line centre. That was my point.

He hasn't played like a 1st line cetnre in a while, but he's no longer being paid like one either. Great contract IMO.

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01-24-2011, 12:56 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
To Columbus: Regehr, Babchuk
To Calgary: Hejda, CBJ 2nd 2011, CBJ 3rd 2011, you-know-who (for salary purposes)

To Nashville: Morrison
To Calgary: NSH 2nd 2011


I'm not sure of the value for the Columbus trade; the problem is that the first-rounder simply isn't in play. Howson doesn't trade 'em unless he has a spare.

Obviously, both deals hinge on the idea that Calgary needs to do some drafting.
The problem with the Columbus trade is that it's awful for Calgary. Babchuk is worth a second alone, so we are trading Regehr for a 3rd round pick and a worse/older version of Regehr in Hejda. This makes the Flames a much worse team instantly. They trade away 2 decent assets and end up with a 2nd and 3rd round pick in a shallow draft. No thanks.

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01-24-2011, 01:09 PM
  #49
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That maybe so, but he is still 40th overall in points for centres and climbing quickly. Not a chance he is considered a 3rd line centre. That was my point.

He hasn't played like a 1st line cetnre in a while, but he's no longer being paid like one either. Great contract IMO.
I don't think any team will take Jokinen with his contract at this moment.

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01-24-2011, 01:10 PM
  #50
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When did I say he was better. No, I said his contract is more favorable making his value higher. I'm pretty sure Joe Thornton has the most points since the Lock out, does that make him the best player? Jaromir Jagr is also 12th, does he have a higher value than Eric Staal who's at 16th...?


What happened a few years ago doesn't matter now. His value is low because he's a major part of the flames sinking ship.
I'm not talking about his trade value... reading comprehension buddy. I'm making an argument that he's a damn good goalie. 10-15 games doesn't change that.

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