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Tallon Ready To Clean House

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01-23-2011, 05:07 PM
  #76
panthersfan751
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Originally Posted by Holy Jokinen View Post
I understand what you're saying, but Burke's plan for rebuilding is "get rid of as many first round draft picks as possible and hope for the best." That team is so screwed because of Burke going after kessel. I get what he was trying to do, but it just hasn't worked out. It's a very low percentage philosophy and puts too much weight in the hands of free agents who have to choose to play for your team.

But i agree in general. I'd like to see what Tallon can do this year in FA.
To be fair, I'm definitely glad Tallon isn't trying what Burke is doing. Losing Seguin and potentially RNH/Landeskog will really hurt the Leafs going forward. Trying to circumvent a "normal" rebuild was a very risky move for them from the start.

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01-23-2011, 05:14 PM
  #77
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There are 2 major issues with the Panthers that stand in the way of future success. First, we suffer from a lack of NHL ready talent. Second, we lack money because our current owners are not rich and the fans do not buy tickets let alone pay ticket prices comparable to teams in the northeast and Canada.

BTW, even if the Panthers were to go after an impact player, I doubt that he would sign with us. If you were a talented, first line UFA would you sign with the Panthers?
We'd have to overpay, but if that's what's necessary, then that's what we need to do. Chicago overpaid for Campbell, but without him do they win the Cup?

We have the payroll to get high quality players here, but we don't spend it right. Why don't we spend 7-8M on one elite player instead of spending a couple million each on several average vets? Stillman, Olesz, and Higgins are taking up nearly 8M, so IMO I think we're allocating what money we do have unwisely. After this year, we will have room to sign some talented players if we want to, but IMO we need to change our philosophy from signing several average vets to signing one or two really good players.

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01-23-2011, 05:17 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by panthersfan751 View Post
We'd have to overpay, but if that's what's necessary, then that's what we need to do. Chicago overpaid for Campbell, but without him do they win the Cup?

We have the payroll to get high quality players here, but we don't spend it right. Why don't we spend 7-8M on one elite player instead of spending a couple million each on several average vets? Stillman, Olesz, and Higgins are taking up nearly 8M, so IMO I think we're allocating what money we do have unwisely. After this year, we will have room to sign some talented players if we want to, but IMO we need to change our philosophy from signing several average vets to signing one or two really good players.
You realize there are only two players who will be impact forwards and they both might re-up with their current teams. There isn't much to sign in free agency. Plus, we have players who are going to get raises and others who have to fill spots and a self imposed cap.

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01-23-2011, 05:29 PM
  #79
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With Frolik now pointless in 8 games do any of you get the sense that he might end of getting moved?

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01-23-2011, 05:50 PM
  #80
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thank you sir! they will probably go see the march 15th game against the flyers
I have tickets if you need them.

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01-23-2011, 05:52 PM
  #81
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With Frolik now pointless in 8 games do any of you get the sense that he might end of getting moved?
Possibly. I don't think Tallon's a big fan of Frolik's game.

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01-23-2011, 06:20 PM
  #82
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If he does decide to move Frolik he should be able to get a fair bit for him.

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01-23-2011, 07:50 PM
  #83
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trade offer from Edmonton

Reasoner for either Brule or Cogliano

__________________
not sure how--but the fish just jumped in the boat and put the hook in it's mouth
52299/14814
The twenty year rebuild is on!!! Embrace the suck
Heaven wont take me and hell is afraid I'd take 0ver
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01-23-2011, 08:29 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
trade offer from Edmonton

Reasoner for either Brule or Cogliano
We want picks, especially from edmonton.

Also, there's a trade offers sticky.

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01-23-2011, 08:29 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
trade offer from Edmonton

Reasoner for either Brule or Cogliano
No thanks.

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01-24-2011, 12:15 AM
  #86
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Weiss, if traded, would most likely be traded during the offseason unless Boston wants to part with their two first round picks to fill the Savard void. We'll be in a full on rebuild mode if we trade him, imo. Weiss for his contract and production is too valuable. One of the better contracts in the league. I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded after next season if things haven't improved.

I like Reasoner a lot but he should be traded if we can get a second round pick for him. We can always try to sign him in the offseason. Same for Dvorak. It might feel good to have him retire as a Panther but I'd say we have a very good shot of re-signing as well in the offseason after we trade him.

We can't lose sight of our current strategy. Acquire as many picks and prospects as possible to force players to compete for spots and have these extra picks and prospects to move at the trade deadline to improve the team when we're in a position to make the playoffs.
you need some veterans. you cannot throw a bunch of 18-20 year old kids out there and expect to develop an nhl team. and what follows logically is that, if you like some of the guys you have here and they want to stay (dvo, reasoner, etc.), it might be worth foregoing the 3rd or whatever they might bring back at the deadline. just a guess. in the end, you will need to sign a few guys anyhow. the "re-sign them in the summer" thing .... doesn't really play. it doesn't happen like that but once in a blue moon.

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Originally Posted by thrillhous View Post
If he does decide to move Frolik he should be able to get a fair bit for him.
i don't think so. he hasn't really shown much of anything a GM would be willing to give up a "fair bit" for.

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01-24-2011, 01:20 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
you need some veterans. you cannot throw a bunch of 18-20 year old kids out there and expect to develop an nhl team. and what follows logically is that, if you like some of the guys you have here and they want to stay (dvo, reasoner, etc.), it might be worth foregoing the 3rd or whatever they might bring back at the deadline. just a guess. in the end, you will need to sign a few guys anyhow. the "re-sign them in the summer" thing .... doesn't really play. it doesn't happen like that but once in a blue moon.



i don't think so. he hasn't really shown much of anything a GM would be willing to give up a "fair bit" for.
His first two seasons were 21 goal seasons. That alone shows quite a bit of promise. I think that MOST gms would consider that performance something worth giving a "fair bit."

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01-24-2011, 10:07 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
you need some veterans. you cannot throw a bunch of 18-20 year old kids out there and expect to develop an nhl team. and what follows logically is that, if you like some of the guys you have here and they want to stay (dvo, reasoner, etc.), it might be worth foregoing the 3rd or whatever they might bring back at the deadline. just a guess. in the end, you will need to sign a few guys anyhow. the "re-sign them in the summer" thing .... doesn't really play. it doesn't happen like that but once in a blue moon.



i don't think so. he hasn't really shown much of anything a GM would be willing to give up a "fair bit" for.
114 points in 207 games isnt bad you know...

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01-24-2011, 11:40 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Holy Jokinen View Post
His first two seasons were 21 goal seasons. That alone shows quite a bit of promise. I think that MOST gms would consider that performance something worth giving a "fair bit."
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Originally Posted by whoisournextbure View Post
114 points in 207 games isnt bad you know...
i didn't say "bad". i'm just saying i don't think anyone around the league is looking at him as a potential gamebreaker. this isn't my area of expertise but i don't think a GM is going to be betting the farm on a kid who has a pair of 21 goal seasons but hasn't shown any real offensive explosiveness or natural finishing ability at this level.

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01-24-2011, 12:28 PM
  #90
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i didn't say "bad". i'm just saying i don't think anyone around the league is looking at him as a potential gamebreaker. this isn't my area of expertise but i don't think a GM is going to be betting the farm on a kid who has a pair of 21 goal seasons but hasn't shown any real offensive explosiveness or natural finishing ability at this level.
if he was 30+ i would agree with you, not a lot of GMs would give away too much of value for him, but he is only 22 and has lots of potential to improve. he hasnt played with real superstars yet that could boost his numbers even more, and he is still one of our top scorers. this is why I think tallon would expect a big return IF he was to trade him..

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01-24-2011, 03:32 PM
  #91
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Possibly. I don't think Tallon's a big fan of Frolik's game.
Neither am I. Especially throughout this season. He's slow, unimaginative and is starting to do the old skate down the wing and float a wrister on net ALA Olesz.

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01-24-2011, 04:02 PM
  #92
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Neither am I. Especially throughout this season. He's slow, unimaginative and is starting to do the old skate down the wing and float a wrister on net ALA Olesz.
God, this really irks me about him. No drive whatsoever. I'm actually hoping he gets traded b/c he's all but guaranteed to be a bust here in Florida if he's already started to float.

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01-24-2011, 07:27 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Possibly. I don't think Tallon's a big fan of Frolik's game.
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Originally Posted by Montsy14 View Post
Neither am I. Especially throughout this season. He's slow, unimaginative and is starting to do the old skate down the wing and float a wrister on net ALA Olesz.
Great word, Montsy. Frolik's been stronger on his skates (maybe he read my message to get on a strength/conditiong program a month into the season)...but he does lack that creativity & patience with the puck similar build to a player in Dads who excels in those catergories though. Everytime Frolik gets crunched too,it's looks like he's roadkill which is not a promising sign moving forward.

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01-24-2011, 11:33 PM
  #94
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Neither am I. Especially throughout this season. He's slow, unimaginative and is starting to do the old skate down the wing and float a wrister on net ALA Olesz.
And yet he's our 2nd leading scorer...

Frolik gets way too much flack around here. He's on pace for around 50 pts. at the age of only 23. He's doing fine. He doesn't float, he's just not a powerforward. He's not Dadonov either, why does his stickhandling and skating have to be compared to Dadonov's? He is who he is, which is a pretty good young forward. Do we compare Booth's stickhandling to Dadonov's? I guarantee if he was put on the trade block there would be tons of interest, and rightfully so. I don't know why everyone's so eager to trade him, it's not like young talented forwards grow on trees. Be careful what you wish for.

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01-24-2011, 11:41 PM
  #95
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And yet he's our 2nd leading scorer...

Frolik gets way too much flack around here. He's on pace for around 50 pts. at the age of only 23. He's doing fine. He doesn't float, he's just not a powerforward. He's not Dadonov either, why does his stickhandling and skating have to be compared to Dadonov's? He is who he is, which is a pretty good young forward. Do we compare Booth's stickhandling to Dadonov's? I guarantee if he was put on the trade block there would be tons of interest, and rightfully so. I don't know why everyone's so eager to trade him, it's not like young talented forwards grow on trees. Be careful what you wish for.
Agree. Hes 23 for gods sake.
Someone would trade him for a draft pick who may become the 50 point man frolik is???

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01-24-2011, 11:56 PM
  #96
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Agree. Hes 23 for gods sake.
Someone would trade him for a draft pick who may become the 50 point man frolik is???
For what it's worth, I don't want him traded. I just said I wouldn't be surprised if he was, based on Tallon's comments before the season began, and his recent play.

Also, I think the people who want him traded feel that we can get an NHL-ready player in return. He's only 23 (actually only 22), and already has two 20+ goal seasons in as many seasons on mediocre teams/is having an ok 3rd year, statistically.

If he's traded, it wouldn't just be for "a draft pick."

I'd imagine he has pretty good value, actually. Next to Weiss, and maybe Booth (depending on what GM's think of his concussions, etc.), Frolik might be next highest, in terms of value. This is not including untouchables like Kulikov, etc.

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01-24-2011, 11:57 PM
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Hi, I'm not a regular on this board so not sure if this is the right place to post. I saw this on the Trades board.

Is Wideman available? If so, what would the Panthers want for him?

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01-25-2011, 08:42 AM
  #98
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For what it's worth, I don't want him traded. I just said I wouldn't be surprised if he was, based on Tallon's comments before the season began, and his recent play.

Also, I think the people who want him traded feel that we can get an NHL-ready player in return. He's only 23 (actually only 22), and already has two 20+ goal seasons in as many seasons on mediocre teams/is having an ok 3rd year, statistically.

If he's traded, it wouldn't just be for "a draft pick."

I'd imagine he has pretty good value, actually. Next to Weiss, and maybe Booth (depending on what GM's think of his concussions, etc.), Frolik might be next highest, in terms of value. This is not including untouchables like Kulikov, etc.
Gotcha. I guess what I'm poorly saying is what would we get in turn for a 22 yo already established 20+ goal scorer who has alot of upside as he slowly matures? What would be an example of a realistic trade improving us while giving him up?
Thx Eric.

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01-25-2011, 09:33 AM
  #99
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Hi, I'm not a regular on this board so not sure if this is the right place to post. I saw this on the Trades board.

Is Wideman available? If so, what would the Panthers want for him?
Boyle.

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01-25-2011, 09:52 AM
  #100
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Hi, I'm not a regular on this board so not sure if this is the right place to post. I saw this on the Trades board.

Is Wideman available? If so, what would the Panthers want for him?
Something around Seto would be my guess.

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