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Nabokov signs with Detroit must clear waivers: CLAIMED BY NYI

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Old
01-22-2011, 07:27 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by OilersFan14 View Post
Wow that's why there is less russians in the league now
Because the NHL and the KHL do not have a proper transfer agreement between them....possibly.

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01-23-2011, 01:49 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Those "differences" remain to be seen.
I'm not sure what the quotation marks are there for, and the only reason why they would remain to be seen is because you haven't yet loaded up hockeydb and nhlnumbers to look it up.

1. The fact that the Islanders have not won a playoff series since 1994 is a historical fact, as is the fact that the Oilers won 3 in 2006 alone, and others since 1994. If you want to "see" that difference, go to hockeydb. If your argument is that the NYI might snap out of it and the Oilers might proceed to go on another 14 or so years of NYI-like futility, I suppose that is technically true, but the same "argument" could be made about any team. It is also technically true that the Red Wings might fall off the map tomorrow and the NYI inexplicably become good - that also "remains to be seen". At the moment, however, the NYI are in fact 14 years further along in their record of abject futility than the Oilers.

2. If you want to "see" the difference in spending habits between Katz and Wang, you can go to nhlnumbers or similar sites and look it up. Again, it "remains to be seen" if Wang will suddenly start throwing money around and Katz becomes a cheapskate, just as much as it "remains to be seen" if the NY Yankees will become the poor man of MLB and the Minnesota Twins the biggest spenders. Technically true, but if your argument relies on Charles Wang becoming a big time spender overnight, that's somewhat questionable. Why not rely on the historical records to come to some kind of idea of how things will play out in the future? There is a historical trend, is there a reason you figure it won't continue?

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01-24-2011, 04:04 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by taunting canadian View Post
I'm not sure what the quotation marks are there for
As I see it the question is whether under Tambellini's watch the Oilers will be any different from the Islanders. And right now Tambellini's record since he came over in no way suggests he can take a last place club to the upper part of the standings. Nobody reasonable doubts that because, well, it remains to be seen.

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Again, it "remains to be seen" if Wang will suddenly start throwing money around and Katz becomes a cheapskate.
The Islanders have spent in the past and it didn't help them much. Their cap hit this year is over 9 million for Yashin and DiPietro, and they have almost 7 mil hits for the next 4 years and then DiPietro's 4.5 until the world ends. Wang getting all cheap wasn't the problem. Bad luck, bad GM and bad owner, there's not much more to blame. The Islanders have shown a string of at least two of those.

So far, the history of the Oilers under Tambellini shows not inkling that they know how to get out of the cellar.

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01-24-2011, 05:28 PM
  #79
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So far, the history of the Oilers under Tambellini shows not inkling that they know how to get out of the cellar.
They have only been in the cellar for one season, which led to Taylor Hall. Now we are in the cellar for another season which will lead to a top three pick - according to some posters this is exactly what we should be doing if we are rebuilding. If you're not of that belief, that's fine, but I'm curious to know what your timeline for leading a team out of the cellar is? It's only been two seasons after all.

Also, I'm in no way defending or criticizing Tambellini's performance. I just think any reasonable individual would give him a bit more time. For me the clock starts on July 1. Then we'll have Hall + one other top three pick and it will be reasonable to expect Tambellini to start acquiring the useful pieces that have been missing this season and last.

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01-24-2011, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex87 View Post
They have only been in the cellar for one season, which led to Taylor Hall. Now we are in the cellar for another season which will lead to a top three pick - according to some posters this is exactly what we should be doing if we are rebuilding. If you're not of that belief, that's fine, but I'm curious to know what your timeline for leading a team out of the cellar is? It's only been two seasons after all.
Tambellini made a lot of moves to try to move the team up in the standings. At some point the results were so pathetic they were forced to rename their managerial style from "retooling" to "rebuilding". I would agree that getting a couple of top picks after trimming the garbage would be a good idea for rebuilding, and whatever Tambellini is doing to assure a top pick he's doing spectacularly well.

But getting top picks isn't much of a problem. Ask Atlanta and the Islanders. It certainly isn't something to say "hey that Tambellini must be an incredible GM, just look how the Oilers are obvious top-2 picks two seasons in a row." I expect we agree on this point. So the remaining issue is whether the GM can build the contender after the tear down and subsequent top picks. If he can't the result is years at the bottom.

Does Tambellini have a record for doing this? If you agree the answer is no then "it remains to be seen". Its an open question.

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Also, I'm in no way defending or criticizing Tambellini's performance. I just think any reasonable individual would give him a bit more time. For me the clock starts on July 1. Then we'll have Hall + one other top three pick and it will be reasonable to expect Tambellini to start acquiring the useful pieces that have been missing this season and last.
And that's fair enough. It would be nice to see early signs and they're pretty few and far between, and you'd hope that he's not expecting to tool up all at once. It will almost certainly take a year well out of the basement with some hope before good players want to sign on for reasonable deals.

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01-25-2011, 12:15 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Finger Post View Post
Does Tambellini have a record for doing this? If you agree the answer is no then "it remains to be seen". Its an open question.
The thing is, I specifically pointed out NYI's 16 year record of futility, a historical fact. It technically "remains to be seen" if the Oilers can match that (which would take more than a decade), but that argument is a relatively weak justification to pretend that there is no "difference" (in quotation marks) between the Islanders' and Oilers' current historical records of futility. It is an actual factual difference between the Islanders and Oilers, as opposed to a speculative similarity based on projections of the future.

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01-25-2011, 11:45 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by taunting canadian View Post
The thing is, I specifically pointed out NYI's 16 year record of futility, a historical fact. It technically "remains to be seen" if the Oilers can match that (which would take more than a decade), but that argument is a relatively weak justification to pretend that there is no "difference" (in quotation marks) between the Islanders' and Oilers' current historical records of futility. It is an actual factual difference between the Islanders and Oilers, as opposed to a speculative similarity based on projections of the future.
For sure. The Oilers certainly may avoid a 16 year stretch. They're only working on 5 right now. I guess we can start worrying when they approach year 14 or 15 without a sniff.

I thought you were arguing whether Tambellini in particular had the chops to bring the Oilers out of the perpetual tailspin. I guess I misread your intent.

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01-25-2011, 03:32 PM
  #83
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Back to the issue at hand, the Isles have officially suspended Nabokov for failing to report.

Is there any way the Islanders could have handled this whole situation any worse, or made themselves out to be a bigger bunch of colossal dickholes than they are now? My money's on "no."

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01-25-2011, 03:39 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by The Human Torch View Post
Back to the issue at hand, the Isles have officially suspended Nabokov for failing to report.

Is there any way the Islanders could have handled this whole situation any worse, or made themselves out to be a bigger bunch of colossal dickholes than they are now? My money's on "no."
What exactly did they do wrong?

They claimed Nabakov and he didn't report. So he's suspended. I believe Nashville did it with Radulov. I think it's a pretty common occurrence no?

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01-25-2011, 04:07 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
What exactly did they do wrong?

They claimed Nabakov and he didn't report. So he's suspended. I believe Nashville did it with Radulov. I think it's a pretty common occurrence no?
The difference is that Nabokov told the clubs he wanted to go to a contender and had no interest playing for a rebuilding team. So instead of just letting him go to the Wings and letting him play, they claim him. So he refuses to report thinking they'd put him back on waivers and the losers suspend him after he told them he wouldn't play for them. Radulov owes Nashville because he is still technically there property and is still a RFA.

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01-25-2011, 04:10 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
The difference is that Nabokov told the clubs he wanted to go to a contender and had no interest playing for a rebuilding team. So instead of just letting him go to the Wings and letting him play, they claim him. So he refuses to report thinking they'd put him back on waivers and the losers suspend him after he told them he wouldn't play for them. Radulov owes Nashville because he is still technically there property and is still a RFA.
So just because Nabakov wanted to go to a contender, the NYI should let him slip through their fingers? This is a team who has Rick DiPietro as their starting goalie.

I'm sorry but thats the chance you take when you sign to a team in January. You know the rules. It clearly states, you'll be put through waivers where your fair game.

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01-25-2011, 04:11 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
What exactly did they do wrong?

They claimed Nabakov and he didn't report. So he's suspended. I believe Nashville did it with Radulov. I think it's a pretty common occurrence no?
I agree. They had every right to suspend him.

If you don't show up for work you get fired, regardless of whether you like where you work or not.

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01-25-2011, 04:13 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
The difference is that Nabokov told the clubs he wanted to go to a contender and had no interest playing for a rebuilding team. So instead of just letting him go to the Wings and letting him play, they claim him. So he refuses to report thinking they'd put him back on waivers and the losers suspend him after he told them he wouldn't play for them. Radulov owes Nashville because he is still technically there property and is still a RFA.
And after the NYI claimed Nabokov he became their property, I think the Islanders are handling it right, this is how I wished Lowe had handles Pronger when he wanted the trade, play for us or your suspended. Good to see the Islanders showing some back bone.

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01-25-2011, 04:15 PM
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I think we can all agree both parties played by the rules, and both lost.

That's more damning of the rules themselves than those involved in this situation.

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01-25-2011, 04:28 PM
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But what are islanders trying to prove with this move that they can stop player from signing latter in the season if they do not want to play for the Islanders. Sure everyone followed the rules but it was pretty clear that Nabokov was not going to report so what was gained by the Islanders?

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01-25-2011, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by teganandsara View Post
But what are islanders trying to prove with this move that they can stop player from signing latter in the season if they do not want to play for the Islanders. Sure everyone followed the rules but it was pretty clear that Nabokov was not going to report so what was gained by the Islanders?
If he doesn't report this season and fill their immediate needs in net because of injury then they would issue a challenge to the league and the PA claiming that Nabokov has breached his contract and demand that he honours it next season. In which case they could have Nabokov for an entire season at 570k.

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01-25-2011, 05:16 PM
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But why would you want a guy to play for your team that does not want to be there. I still do not see where the Islanders gain anything by this move.

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01-25-2011, 05:20 PM
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But why would you want a guy to play for your team that does not want to be there. I still do not see where the Islanders gain anything by this move.
This is the million dollar question. Shows you how a fun game has now become strictly big business.

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01-25-2011, 05:28 PM
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The Islanders knew he didn't want to play there. They knew, in all likelihood, that they were completely boning someone who just made a decision to move halfway around the world for a new job.

Nabokov wanted to go to Detroit. Detroit wanted Nabokov. Garth Snow stepped into a no-win pile of dog**** because there were only two outcomes for his team: either they look like morons for trying to sign someone who clearly didn't want to be there and causing him to stay home and unemployed, or they look like morons for signing someone who clearly didn't want to be there but he shows up anyways, helps then win a few useless extra games, and moves his team farther down in the draft order. There was no third possibility. End of story.

Yes, the rules are positively asinine, but that's beside the point. The point is that this was a completely brainless moves by a franchise that seems to be doing their best to be even more unlikeable from top to bottom than the gong show that is the Edmonton Oilers. Great company we're in.

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01-25-2011, 05:30 PM
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Also, let's not kid around: if it was Edmonton that claimed Nabokov instead of NYI, the Eastern media would be carving the franchise an entire new set of poop chutes already. And you know what? For once they'd be right.

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01-25-2011, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by The Human Torch View Post
The Islanders knew he didn't want to play there. They knew, in all likelihood, that they were completely boning someone who just made a decision to move halfway around the world for a new job.

Nabokov wanted to go to Detroit. Detroit wanted Nabokov. Garth Snow stepped into a no-win pile of dog**** because there were only two outcomes for his team: either they look like morons for trying to sign someone who clearly didn't want to be there and causing him to stay home and unemployed, or they look like morons for signing someone who clearly didn't want to be there but he shows up anyways, helps then win a few useless extra games, and moves his team farther down in the draft order. There was no third possibility. End of story.
This is my thinking as well. The Islanders might be technically right but that doesn't mean they made a good decision. Indeed, it's just the opposite... their GM made a terrible decision and nobody has benefitted. Not the Islanders, the Red Wings, or Nabokov.

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01-25-2011, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by The Human Torch View Post
The Islanders knew he didn't want to play there. They knew, in all likelihood, that they were completely boning someone who just made a decision to move halfway around the world for a new job.

Nabokov wanted to go to Detroit. Detroit wanted Nabokov. Garth Snow stepped into a no-win pile of dog**** because there were only two outcomes for his team: either they look like morons for trying to sign someone who clearly didn't want to be there and causing him to stay home and unemployed, or they look like morons for signing someone who clearly didn't want to be there but he shows up anyways, helps then win a few useless extra games, and moves his team farther down in the draft order. There was no third possibility. End of story.

Yes, the rules are positively asinine, but that's beside the point. The point is that this was a completely brainless moves by a franchise that seems to be doing their best to be even more unlikeable from top to bottom than the gong show that is the Edmonton Oilers. Great company we're in.
The Oiler management would never display such an insulting move to any of the franchises in the league. Your hate for Oilers management is shining through once again, like the brilliantly blinding light from a supernova in a Galaxy far far away. Unfortunatly that Galaxy is so far from reality that it only exists in your mind.

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01-25-2011, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by The Human Torch View Post
The Islanders knew he didn't want to play there. They knew, in all likelihood, that they were completely boning someone who just made a decision to move halfway around the world for a new job.

Nabokov wanted to go to Detroit. Detroit wanted Nabokov. Garth Snow stepped into a no-win pile of dog**** because there were only two outcomes for his team: either they look like morons for trying to sign someone who clearly didn't want to be there and causing him to stay home and unemployed, or they look like morons for signing someone who clearly didn't want to be there but he shows up anyways, helps then win a few useless extra games, and moves his team farther down in the draft order. There was no third possibility. End of story.

Yes, the rules are positively asinine, but that's beside the point. The point is that this was a completely brainless moves by a franchise that seems to be doing their best to be even more unlikeable from top to bottom than the gong show that is the Edmonton Oilers. Great company we're in.
Boo hoo. The Isles didnt know dick squat. They hoped to be able to get him to show.They needed a goalie. I have zero sympathy for Nabokov. His agent knows what the rules are & has known for years (or should have). If he wanted to be with Detroit he should have signed with them in the off season or not played in the K this year.

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01-25-2011, 07:07 PM
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Boo hoo. The Isles didnt know dick squat. They hoped to be able to get him to show.They needed a goalie. I have zero sympathy for Nabokov. His agent knows what the rules are & has known for years (or should have). If he wanted to be with Detroit he should have signed with them in the off season or not played in the K this year.
The problem I have with it as others have said it is that the Islanders had absoulutely nothing to gain from the move and they did it anyway. It would have made sense if it was a team that Detroits challenging in the play-off race or could potentially face in the play-offs but really what could the Islanders gain from this move. It just shows the lack of class that the Islanders Organization has become.

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01-25-2011, 07:15 PM
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The problem I have with it as others have said it is that the Islanders had absoulutely nothing to gain from the move and they did it anyway. It would have made sense if it was a team that Detroits challenging in the play-off race or could potentially face in the play-offs but really what could the Islanders gain from this move. It just shows the lack of class that the Islanders Organization has become.
But they do have something to gain. They dont have a goalie right now. They think they may be able to get Nabakov for very little, and who knows, sign him next year. Ask the Oilers org. Do they want to tank it for the whole year.? No is the answer. Its not good for developing the team on a go forward basis.
There was no real downside to it as a hockey decision

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