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Old
01-25-2011, 12:43 AM
  #51
gravytrain6t
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
Looking at how this team is playing our d continues to be one of the strenghts of this team. With our youth and depth on the back line should the Rangers consider moving Girardi in a package for scoring up front? Or is that going to weaken the back line too much and force the young'uns to play too many minutes.

If trading Girardi is an option can he fetch someone like Getzlaf or Ryan from Anaheim? How much more would the Rangers have to add? How about:

Girardi and Grachev for Ryan - does Anaheim bite?

Also, how much value does MDZ have? Should he or could he be sent to Anaheim as part of a deal for either Getzlaf or Ryan.
No and no! It wouldn't make any sense for Anaheim to trade their number one center man or high scoring winger. If they were looking for defense, they would start by asking for Staal, not Girardi. But I'm assuming if Murray (like Tortorella) starts talking about the importance of putting together "a core group of players," all 3 of Getzlaf, Perry, and Ryan would be front and center.


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01-25-2011, 01:38 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
Here is a list of upcomming UFA defensemen:

http://www.capgeek.com/free_agents.p...D&fa_type_id=2

Sather will most likely sign at least 1.

On top of that we got Valentenko, Kundratek, Pashnin, McIlrath, etc.

If suppose we trade Girardi for a 1st rounder, we clear 3.3 mil in cap space and a spot either for a good rookie or a good UFA and get an extra 1st rounder.
No. Just no.

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01-25-2011, 05:28 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
Here is a list of upcomming UFA defensemen:

http://www.capgeek.com/free_agents.p...D&fa_type_id=2

Sather will most likely sign at least 1.

On top of that we got Valentenko, Kundratek, Pashnin, McIlrath, etc.

If suppose we trade Girardi for a 1st rounder, we clear 3.3 mil in cap space and a spot either for a good rookie or a good UFA and get an extra 1st rounder.
Oh yeah? Who do you propose we sign? Please drop a name for us. And keep in mind they have to be making the same or less than Girardi and be as reliable as he is. I'd like to wish you luck with that one. And please dont bother coming back with a name and proposed salary that is unrealistic. One of the few on that list who is interesting is Ian White who currently makes $3 million. Carolina will probably try to retain him but if not, at 26 years old he is going to want a raise. Who knows what he is going to get on the open market. AND DO NOT EVEN BOTHER MENTIONING YOUR MANCRUSH Jovanovski who will be 35 years old next year. You complain Girardi is slower than our defenseman (even though he is not) but Jovanovski will make him look like Brian Leetch out there with how slow he is.

Pashnin wont be ready.
McIlrath certainly wont be ready either.
Both have a lot to learn. We're not rushing them.

Valentenko and Kundratek MAY push for spots. Or maybe they will be traded by sather at this year's deadline. You wanna know why? Because you dont trade your 26 year old defenseman that your organization developed into one of the more solid defensemen in the league. He has a reasonable salary. Sather signed Girardi himself. He is NOT going anywhere. Nor does anyone here want him gone. The only person looking to trade him is you.

At the same time Girardi will not get you a 1st rounder. So no your not getting an "extra 1st rounder." He is not the salary you need to clear. That is a good salary to have. Any of our "good rookies" will not be better than Girardi. And any "good UFA" will cost more than what Girardi does. Not only that Girardi is again homegrown. He knows the system very well by now and has shown that by his play. Staal is comfortable with him. Its not a video game you cant just put players together and play the game because chemistry doesnt matter when the reality is it does.

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01-25-2011, 07:26 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
Oh yeah? Who do you propose we sign? Please drop a name for us. And keep in mind they have to be making the same or less than Girardi and be as reliable as he is. I'd like to wish you luck with that one. And please dont bother coming back with a name and proposed salary that is unrealistic. One of the few on that list who is interesting is Ian White who currently makes $3 million. Carolina will probably try to retain him but if not, at 26 years old he is going to want a raise. Who knows what he is going to get on the open market. AND DO NOT EVEN BOTHER MENTIONING YOUR MANCRUSH Jovanovski who will be 35 years old next year. You complain Girardi is slower than our defenseman (even though he is not) but Jovanovski will make him look like Brian Leetch out there with how slow he is.

Pashnin wont be ready.
McIlrath certainly wont be ready either.
Both have a lot to learn. We're not rushing them.

Valentenko and Kundratek MAY push for spots. Or maybe they will be traded by sather at this year's deadline. You wanna know why? Because you dont trade your 26 year old defenseman that your organization developed into one of the more solid defensemen in the league. He has a reasonable salary. Sather signed Girardi himself. He is NOT going anywhere. Nor does anyone here want him gone. The only person looking to trade him is you.

At the same time Girardi will not get you a 1st rounder. So no your not getting an "extra 1st rounder." He is not the salary you need to clear. That is a good salary to have. Any of our "good rookies" will not be better than Girardi. And any "good UFA" will cost more than what Girardi does. Not only that Girardi is again homegrown. He knows the system very well by now and has shown that by his play. Staal is comfortable with him. Its not a video game you cant just put players together and play the game because chemistry doesnt matter when the reality is it does.
Great post. I wanted to post a response to the absurdity of trading Girardi, as if our D wasn't young enough, but this is basically what I would have said.

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01-25-2011, 07:43 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by NYRfan1823 View Post
Great post. I wanted to post a response to the absurdity of trading Girardi, as if our D wasn't young enough, but this is basically what I would have said.
It took me sometime to realize but the majority of the posters on this board know nothing of hockey...and when you read these prospals it just confirms it.

Let's trade Giradi for a guy 10 years old than him who happens to suck...that will make us better.

Sather will not mess with the young core of this team.

He is not trading Vtank, Kundatrek, Grachev and the like for rentals.

He will trade dead weight like Rozy for a kid with consistency issues like Wojo but that is the extent of it.

For once Sather is getting it right and the fools on here want to blow it all up...

If this year has taught us anything is you can never have enough depth.

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01-25-2011, 07:56 AM
  #56
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Gilroy for Babchuk?

RFA for UFA

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01-25-2011, 08:21 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
It took me sometime to realize but the majority of the posters on this board know nothing of hockey...and when you read these prospals it just confirms it.

Let's trade Giradi for a guy 10 years old than him who happens to suck...that will make us better.

Sather will not mess with the young core of this team.

He is not trading Vtank, Kundatrek, Grachev and the like for rentals.

He will trade dead weight like Rozy for a kid with consistency issues like Wojo but that is the extent of it.

For once Sather is getting it right and the fools on here want to blow it all up...

If this year has taught us anything is you can never have enough depth.

So Rozsival is dead weight? He used to be our top defenseman offensively and defensively and a part of the core several years ago. Girardi is only 3 and a half years younger. In 2-3 years you will be calling Girardi dead weight. I guarantee it.

Jovanovski is 8 years older than Girardi, looks like you got math problems or just pull numbers out of your ***. And the trade was Jovanovski AND Hanzal for Girardi AND Drury and a secondary prospect. Jovanovski is the salary dump on their part, but is still a good defenseman and we get to see how he does on the this team prior to free agency and if he plays great we sign him for another year, if not then it narrows our options in free agency. But we would still have another huge young center that plays physical, kills penalties and wins faceoffs. And no more Druru helps us a lot.

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01-25-2011, 09:22 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
So Rozsival is dead weight? He used to be our top defenseman offensively and defensively and a part of the core several years ago. Girardi is only 3 and a half years younger. In 2-3 years you will be calling Girardi dead weight. I guarantee it.

Jovanovski is 8 years older than Girardi, looks like you got math problems or just pull numbers out of your ***. And the trade was Jovanovski AND Hanzal for Girardi AND Drury and a secondary prospect. Jovanovski is the salary dump on their part, but is still a good defenseman and we get to see how he does on the this team prior to free agency and if he plays great we sign him for another year, if not then it narrows our options in free agency. But we would still have another huge young center that plays physical, kills penalties and wins faceoffs. And no more Druru helps us a lot.
Wait, wait. You're trying to call someone else out about their math when you're trying to claim that girardi is just 3 1/2 years younger than Rozsival. Rosie is 32 right now. Girardi is 26 and will be turning 27 in April. Say it with me now...5 years. That's the difference for the mathematically challenged out there. That is a huge difference.

In 2-3 years Girardi will only be 29, 30 years old. Not 32. He will also only be making $3.3 million, NOT $5 million. Girardi has been more steady than Rozsival. You're argument makes absolutely no sense. On top of that, if Girardi does become "dead weight" the way you are claiming is a possibility, it really wont be an issue. Why? Because his contract will be up at 30 years old. We will have those prospects ready to fill in. Or we could go through FA and replace him.

Now as for Rosie. He was NOT good offensively. His offensive stats have been on the decline since the 06-07 year, his peak season in his career. Here are his stats from then on:

06-07 season: 40 points
07-08 season: 38 points
08-09 season: 30 points
09-10 season: 23 points
10-11 season: 15 points currently (on pace for 28 according to tsn.ca, however, he has been battling injuries so that number will dwindle down)

He has not been the same player offensively that he was a few years ago. He was OK defensively here. He was great when it came to logging a lot of ice time. He has only played the full 82 games twice in his career. And he was never considered part of the "core" years ago, he was just all we had that was actually somewhat reliable. Girardi had played all 82 games the last 3 seasons and was on track to do the same this season until his recent injury which is a minor one where he wont miss more than maybe 2 games.

You have yet to give us a reason as to why PHO would trade Hanzal who is just 23 years old. He has recorded at least 30 points the last 3 seasons. He needs just one more goal to set a career high for himself. He seems to be improving every year. He is big. Why are they trading him again? Do you think these things through? No you dont. You just assume PHO wants to give us their nice young players because they gave us W2 for Rosie who has been average and is currently banged up making us the winners of the deal thus far.

Again you fail to explain why a team struggling very badly financially would want to take on Drury's albatross of a contract. Not to mention he is useless and unproductive.

And Jovanovski is not a "good" defenseman. He is barely average and thats being nice. He is not the same player he once was. Yeah I'd be interested if this was 3-4 years ago, but its not. He's 34 years old! Why dont you get it. Just because he is big doesnt mean ****. He is worse than Girardi is. Thats all there is to it. In fact he is worse than the majority of our D. I'd rather have Eminger, Sauer, Staal, Girardi than him out there. MDZ is working on his game and has looked better so if he is playing like he can than him too would be out there over him. McD is still young and undeveloped. And Gilroy's play lately is much more desirable than what Jovanovski would bring to the table which is not much. The point is he is NOT good. No matter how much you try and convince yourself and the people of this board, he just simply isnt. I dont want him here and I doubt many others do. In fact you should make a poll asking the board if they'd prefer Jovanovski over Girardi, or Jovanovski period for that matter. I can tell you right now you wont like the results. Dont want him now. Dont want to sign him when he's 35. He wont come here and be doing anything different because its his "contract year." You wanna know why? Because he's old and past his prime. He cant turn it on and just start being the player he was when he was 30.

But I know you're ignoring my posts because you dont like to hear the truth. Just like you didnt in the other thread where our posts got deleted. I'm sorry if the truth hurts and you cant handle it.


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01-25-2011, 09:33 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
So Rozsival is dead weight? He used to be our top defenseman offensively and defensively and a part of the core several years ago. Girardi is only 3 and a half years younger. In 2-3 years you will be calling Girardi dead weight. I guarantee it.

Jovanovski is 8 years older than Girardi, looks like you got math problems or just pull numbers out of your ***. And the trade was Jovanovski AND Hanzal for Girardi AND Drury and a secondary prospect. Jovanovski is the salary dump on their part, but is still a good defenseman and we get to see how he does on the this team prior to free agency and if he plays great we sign him for another year, if not then it narrows our options in free agency. But we would still have another huge young center that plays physical, kills penalties and wins faceoffs. And no more Druru helps us a lot.
Have the Rangers missed Rozy?

No one is going to take Drury...I like the little made up world you live in though.

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01-25-2011, 09:34 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
Gilroy for Babchuk?

RFA for UFA
This is definitely more reasonable than most of the unrealistic proposals that have been posted on these boards.

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01-25-2011, 09:36 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
Wait, wait. You're trying to call someone else out about their math when you're trying to claim that girardi is just 3 1/2 years younger than Rozsival. Rosie is 32 right now. Girardi is 26 and will be turning 27 in April. Say it with me now...5 years. That's the difference for the mathematically challenged out there. That is a huge difference.

In 2-3 years Girardi will only be 29, 30 years old. Not 32. He will also only be making $3.3 million, NOT $5 million. Girardi has been more steady than Rozsival. You're argument makes absolutely no sense. On top of that, if Girardi does become "dead weight" the way you are claiming is a possibility, it really wont be an issue. Why? Because his contract will be up at 30 years old. We will have those prospects ready to fill in. Or we could go through FA and replace him.

Now as for Rosie. He was NOT good offensively. His offensive stats have been on the decline since the 06-07 year, his peak season in his career. Here are his stats from then on:

06-07 season: 40 points
07-08 season: 38 points
08-09 season: 30 points
09-10 season: 23 points
10-11 season: 15 points currently (on pace for 28 according to tsn.ca, however, he has been battling injuries so that number will dwindle down)

He has not been the same player offensively that he was a few years ago. He was OK defensively here. He was great when it came to logging a lot of ice time. He has only played the full 82 games twice in his career. And he was never considered part of the "core" years ago, he was just all we had that was actually somewhat reliable. Girardi had played all 82 games the last 3 seasons and was on track to do the same this season until his recent injury which is a minor one where he wont miss more than maybe 2 games.

You have yet to give us a reason as to why PHO would trade Hanzal who is just 23 years old. He has recorded at least 30 points the last 3 seasons. He needs just one more goal to set a career high for himself. He seems to be improving every year. He is big. Why are they trading him again? Do you think these things through? No you dont. You just assume PHO wants to give us their nice young players because they gave us W2 for Rosie who has been average and is currently banged up making us the winners of the deal thus far.

Again you fail to explain why a team struggling very badly financially would want to take on Drury's albatross of a contract. Not to mention he is useless and unproductive.

And Jovanovski is not a "good" defenseman. He is barely average and thats being nice. He is not the same player he once was. Yeah I'd be interested if this was 3-4 years ago, but its not. He's 34 years old! Why dont you get it. Just because he is big doesnt mean ****. He is worse than Girardi is. Thats all there is to it. In fact he is worse than the majority of our D. I'd rather have Eminger, Sauer, Staal, Girardi than him out there. MDZ is working on his game and has looked better so if he is playing like he can than him too would be out there over him. McD is still young and undeveloped. And Gilroy's play lately is much more desirable than what Jovanovski would bring to the table which is not much. The point is he is NOT good. No matter how much you try and convince yourself and the people of this board, he just simply isnt. I dont want him here and I doubt many others do. In fact you should make a poll asking the board if they'd prefer Jovanovski over Girardi, or Jovanovski period for that matter. I can tell you right now you wont like the results. Dont want him now. Dont want to sign him when he's 35. He wont come here and be doing anything different because its his "contract year." You wanna know why? Because he's old and past his prime. He cant turn it on and just start being the player he was when he was 30.

But I know you're ignoring my posts because you dont like to hear the truth. Just like you didnt in the other thread where our posts got deleted. I'm sorry if the truth hurts and you cant handle it.
Well said...i have been fighting this fight a long time and these guys keep coming up with insane deals...I think they just want a reaction...but thank you for putting this mutt in is place.

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01-25-2011, 10:54 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
Here is a list of upcomming UFA defensemen:

http://www.capgeek.com/free_agents.p...D&fa_type_id=2

Sather will most likely sign at least 1.

On top of that we got Valentenko, Kundratek, Pashnin, McIlrath, etc.

If suppose we trade Girardi for a 1st rounder, we clear 3.3 mil in cap space and a spot either for a good rookie or a good UFA and get an extra 1st rounder.
That's not a particularly impressive list, but Hal Gill --- not as good as Girardi in some areas and stronger in others --- is a nice 1 year stop gap to McIlrath.

So sure, don't just give Dan Girardi away.
But if there is enough return, a deal can make sense.

Unfortunately, some die hards have a closed mind on this subject.

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01-25-2011, 10:54 AM
  #63
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hey Rangers44...i took the pleasure of starting the poll for you on the Phoenix board with your trade proposal of hanzal/jovanovski for girardi/drury.

Through one hour of being up for voting here's the results thus far:

15- is the number of people who voted "No" to the trade

get ready for this number,...ready?:

0- is the number of people who would do the trade

Here's the link for some of the responses:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=869083

here's a quote from a PHO fan who has 25,000 posts on hfboards:

"A million times "No". If anyone votes "Yes" in this poll they are either not a Coyotes fan or they are AY being funny."

I think he couldnt articulate the sentence he wanted to post because he was so shocked how horrible of a trade it is.

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01-25-2011, 11:00 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
That's not a particularly impressive list, but Hal Gill --- not as good as Girardi in some areas and stronger in others --- is a nice 1 year stop gap to McIlrath.

So sure, don't just give Dan Girardi away.
But if there is enough return, a deal can make sense.

Unfortunately, some die hards have a closed mind on this subject.
I dont think its a closed mind. I think many here understand Girardi's full value. He isnt the best defenseman in the league but he has made for a very good #2. But again thats not us saying he's untouchable. But when you consider the salary he makes, his age, and who he matches up against night in and night out...there are not many players who you could replace him with. And there certainly arent many, if any at all, who are going to be available around the trade deadline who will be able to replace all of what girardi has to offer, both on the ice and off in terms of salary and age. I'd move him for the right deal, but it'd have to be a very good one at this point.

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01-25-2011, 11:06 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
I dont think its a closed mind. I think many here understand Girardi's full value. He isnt the best defenseman in the league but he has made for a very good #2. But again thats not us saying he's untouchable. But when you consider the salary he makes, his age, and who he matches up against night in and night out...there are not many players who you could replace him with. And there certainly arent many, if any at all, who are going to be available around the trade deadline who will be able to replace all of what girardi has to offer, both on the ice and off in terms of salary and age.

" I'd move him for the right deal, but it'd have to be a very good one at this point.
"

Certainly.
A move for the sake of a move is rarely productive.
(I still get nightmares from the Ratelle/Park - Esposito/Vadnais, etc. deal.)

By all means, keep DG, unless the premium in return is enough of a profit to be an upgrade, directly or indirectly, short term or long term.
But if that IS the case, don't hesitate to pull the trigger. That's my point.

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01-25-2011, 11:17 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Staal18 View Post
The trade proposals have to stop. The team is what it is, and if a trade occurs it is not going to be anything that has been suggested on HFBoards.
underline:
obviously, not every HFB can or should be defended; I don't critique for how outlandish, or thinking outside the box a proposal is, as long as there is a theoretical, rational basis for opinion for or against any suggestion.

italic:
The team is a good team so far this year, deserving of our support.
But we are entitled to continue to seek an ever improving team in light of competition that does not stand still.

bold:
completely disagree.
This is what I meant by close mindedness.
Support the competition of ideas; if something deserves flaming, that's part of the process. From the flames we may find a winner.

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01-25-2011, 11:20 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Y...
Thank you. An unrealistic scenario such as this is never productive. Discussing minor deadline deals to tweak the team CAN be.
We should be open minded to minor deals.
But we should also be open to major deals.

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01-25-2011, 11:34 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
"

Certainly.
A move for the sake of a move is rarely productive.
(I still get nightmares from the Ratelle/Park - Esposito/Vadnais, etc. deal.)

By all means, keep DG, unless the premium in return is enough of a profit to be an upgrade, directly or indirectly, short term or long term.
But if that IS the case, don't hesitate to pull the trigger. That's my point.
I completely agree.

But the trade proposal in question here is one where it is not realistic, at all, and does not make sense. We would not benefit dealing Girardi in the deal proposed.

Even the fans on the Phoenix board have said that Girardi would easily become their number 2.

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01-25-2011, 12:00 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Have the Rangers missed Rozy?
No one is going to take Drury...I like the little made up world you live in though.
no and they didn't miss Tyutin, and they won't miss Girardi much.

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01-25-2011, 12:20 PM
  #70
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no and they didn't miss Tyutin, and they won't miss Girardi much.
Your words of wisdom haven't swayed my opinion. Kudos for trying though. You almost had me. Almost.





Not to sidetrack this epic thread, but explain to me why you can't apply your twisted logic with some of our other players. Like, Brandon Dubinsky or Ryan Callahan. Why not trade the both of them for picks/prospects? The $$$ freed up from moving them might be enough to sign someone like OMG Brad mother****ing Richards!!1111111



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01-25-2011, 12:26 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Your words of wisdom haven't swayed my opinion. Kudos for trying though. You almost had me. Almost.





Not to sidetrack this epic thread, but explain to me why you can't apply your twisted logic with some of our other players. Like, Brandon Dubinsky or Ryan Callahan. Why not trade the both of them for picks/prospects? The $$$ freed up from moving them might be enough to sign someone like OMG Brad mother****ing Richards!!1111111


It was a unanimous decision on the phoenix board that they would not do his proposed hanzal/jovanovski for girardi/drury deal. 25 votes to 0 votes

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Old
01-25-2011, 12:27 PM
  #72
haohmaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
no and they didn't miss Tyutin, and they won't miss Girardi much.
Do you think before you post?

A.) Drury - terrible contract, no goals, longest scoring drought of career, 4th line. Do you think other GM's across the NHL just started taking stupid pills or something? Even if we could find someone with an IQ of a chimp to take him, he's got a FULL NMC. He's not going anywhere.

B.) Girardi - 2nd best defenseman on the team. Leads the team in D points. Just signed here for years at a decent $/contract. Why on earth would Sather trade him at this point in the season for an older D that isn't half as good as he is? Jovanovski is a shell of his former self. The UFA's will be there in the summer whether we trade Girardi or not. The Rangers are 5th in the league in GA/G. Why the hell would you mess with that?

C.) Why the hell would Phoenix trade Hanzel? He's their #1 Center and they have scoring issues to begin with.

This trade makes no sense if your Phoenix. NONE. And makes little sense for the Rangers other than unloading Drury's contract (which is impossible, FYI).

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Old
01-25-2011, 12:32 PM
  #73
Blatant
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Ranger44, this is not NHL 11 on playstation. You don't trade your 2nd defenseman, who has one of the best bang for your buck contracts in the league. You think you can just go around and trade everyone on the team, trade Gabby, trade Girardi... hell why dont we trade Lundqvist.. with your logic he will be in his mid 30's in 10 years, and thats like only a decade away...

Altough Staal had a good game against OV without girardi, and that might seem to help your argument, it doesn't. He would miss girardi, they have such great chemistry together.

And Rozy was never part of THIS core, he was a little over payed, and we had young guys ready to replace him NOW. He wasnt over 3 years younger like Girardi, and on a much better contract. Who is to say that anyone is ready to step up and take on top 2 minutes for a whole season too

Please Rangers44 from now on do us all a favor, and before you post some crazy proposal, or statement, take a second.. count to 5, and think. Does this actually make any ****ing sense at all?

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Old
01-25-2011, 01:10 PM
  #74
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Girardi, Christensen, Weise

for

Hanzal, Jovanovski and 3rd rounder

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Old
01-25-2011, 01:15 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
Girardi, Christensen, Weise

for

Hanzal, Jovanovski and 3rd rounder
Why the **** do you want to get rid of Girardi so badly? Please enlighten me with an answer.

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