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Why I'm glad Crosby is leveraging against NHL entry-level limits.

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Old
07-07-2005, 07:32 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I in the Eye

For the agents to keep their current standard of living and gravy train off of the young players (in particular, young stars), I think that they will push and try to persuade their clients to go to Europe for a few years (say 18 to 21)... The new 'agent plan' could be to earn millions in Europe for two or three years, come back to the NHL (sign the entry level maximum), and then have the agent negotiate other NHL contracts from there... Kind of like an 'Agent Package Five Year Plan'... It keeps them in the loop - and maximizes their compensation... Those vultures...
I don't know, I don't see the European leagues wanting to spend a lot of money on 18 year old players just to develop them for the NHL. A 30 year old former NHL player at a reasonable cost will probably be more effective for them than a newly drafted player will at that young of an age.

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07-07-2005, 07:36 PM
  #102
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Has Sidney Crosby purchased his copy of Yodelling for Dummies?This Crosby story of him signing in Switzerland is such BS.Another misstep by Team Crosby.Damien Cox of the Toronto Star was correct for a change.First Sid said he was willing to be a replacement player,then he skips the CHL all star game with an alleged back injury and now Pat Brisson is leaking the Switzerland story to Pierre LeBrun.For what reason?


Last edited by RangerBoy: 07-07-2005 at 07:50 PM.
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Old
07-07-2005, 07:45 PM
  #103
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Wow, I didn't know there was a 4 year limit on what rookies can make. That's a bit excessive, methinks. A 2 year limit would work fine, it's not too long and it's just enough time to get a good idea of where that player should stand salary-wise.

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07-07-2005, 07:49 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Epsilon
But if the fans support the jersey and not the player like I've been told, who cares what league Crosby is playing in, it's not going to cost anyone else any money. If anything it will make them more because he's not taking a bite out of the pie.
Exactly. Who cares if Crosby plays in Europe? I know I sure as hell don't. He's one player, and an unproven one at that. Big freakin' whoop. Let him go to Europe and stay there for 8 years playing second rate hockey against second rate competition. We'll see him in 2014 and decide then if he's got NHL calibre talent. Until then, enjoy all that Swiss chocolate and fine time pieces Sydney. The game won't miss you at all.

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07-07-2005, 08:16 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
Exactly. Who cares if Crosby plays in Europe? I know I sure as hell don't. He's one player, and an unproven one at that. Big freakin' whoop. Let him go to Europe and stay there for 8 years playing second rate hockey against second rate competition. We'll see him in 2014 and decide then if he's got NHL calibre talent. Until then, enjoy all that Swiss chocolate and fine time pieces Sydney. The game won't miss you at all.
The NHL survived without Crosby before it'll survive without him if he goes to Europe. If there was a perfect example of why we need a rookie cap this is it. If they let Crosby's threat destroy the payscales for rookies they are screwed as the second rate rookies are going to start demanding demanding the much higher rookie max. Let's not go back there again.

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07-07-2005, 09:03 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
Washington isn't going to make the playoffs next season so it really doesn't matter how good Ovechkin will be next season. You can say that isn't the point but nor is comparing a player who has been in the league for over 10 years to a guy who has done nothing yet. .
No, I am afraid that is the point.

Ovechkin is worth the damn money, and you know it.
He's going to sell tickets. He'll sell more jerseys than anyone else on the team. He's gonna get people pumped about games.
He's worth it.

There's a salary cap.
All the player haters can relax now.

I thought you guys said the salary cap would allow the GMs to show how skilled they are.

Well how much skill is involved in this: "Here's the rookie maximum, Sidney, take it or leave it?"


The skill is in hiring the right scouts. It's in having a good idea of whether your player is the real deal or not. It's about paying guys the right amount of money.
In my opinon, that applies to rookies, too.

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07-07-2005, 10:00 PM
  #107
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LeBron James...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
No, I am afraid that is the point.

Ovechkin is worth the damn money, and you know it.
He's going to sell tickets. He'll sell more jerseys than anyone else on the team. He's gonna get people pumped about games.
He's worth it.

There's a salary cap.
All the player haters can relax now.

I thought you guys said the salary cap would allow the GMs to show how skilled they are.

Well how much skill is involved in this: "Here's the rookie maximum, Sidney, take it or leave it?"


The skill is in hiring the right scouts. It's in having a good idea of whether your player is the real deal or not. It's about paying guys the right amount of money.
In my opinon, that applies to rookies, too.
Whether or not you, or anyone else agrees about the rookie cap, the PA from all reports have given that to the Owners. Rookies will get a max salary, like in the old CBA, but the key point with be a more clearly defined bonus structure for every rookie.

I don't have an issue with the max salary cap for a rookie. It's like joining one of the big accounting firms. You have to put in your time until you earn your CA designation before you have any real negotiating power, to either stay on or go to another company to be their CFO or Controller.

I do, however, believe the NHL and PA have to be realistic in the bonus structure. It should allow rookies to earn, IMO, up to the equivalent of their max salary in bonus money. But, the players MUST earn them.

By that I mean, lets say for a forward, it's the following:
20 goals
25 assists
40 points
10 +/-
top 8 in ice time on your team
calder trophy
calder finalist

have each one worth 1/7 of the max salary and for each one the player hits, he get 120K.

But, for year 2, 3 and 4, the bonus levels should go up, so by year 4, they need to hit 30 odd goals and 65 or 70 points to receive a bonus.

And a rookie cap didn't have LeBron James think twice about joining the NBA. Heck, even now the next LeBron James needs to be 19 to play in the NBA.

I don't believe there's a chance Crosby will play in Europe. North American born players want to play in the NHL. If IMG wants more money for Crosby, then they should talk to their clients who are members of the PA to push for a better bonus package for rookies.

As for the European players, how many will really get 3 or 4 million to play for their club teams? Maybe only 1 player a year. Players will need to judge, my team owns my rights for 10 years after I get drafted, so if I'm good enough to play at 18, then I have to spend 4 years under the rookie cap, so I have 6 years left of being a RFA. So, can I max my money out more playing in Europe or playing in the NHL. Or maybe, I divide my time up, play 2 years in Europe, then go to the NHL and have only 4 years as a RFA before becoming a UFA?

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07-07-2005, 11:01 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
Exactly. Who cares if Crosby plays in Europe? I know I sure as hell don't. He's one player, and an unproven one at that. Big freakin' whoop. Let him go to Europe and stay there for 8 years playing second rate hockey against second rate competition. We'll see him in 2014 and decide then if he's got NHL calibre talent. Until then, enjoy all that Swiss chocolate and fine time pieces Sydney. The game won't miss you at all.
I love it!

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07-07-2005, 11:04 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
No, I am afraid that is the point.

Ovechkin is worth the damn money, and you know it.
He's going to sell tickets. He'll sell more jerseys than anyone else on the team. He's gonna get people pumped about games.
He's worth it.

There's a salary cap.
All the player haters can relax now.

I thought you guys said the salary cap would allow the GMs to show how skilled they are.

Well how much skill is involved in this: "Here's the rookie maximum, Sidney, take it or leave it?"


The skill is in hiring the right scouts. It's in having a good idea of whether your player is the real deal or not. It's about paying guys the right amount of money.
In my opinon, that applies to rookies, too.
One thing's certain: Crosby doesn't need to pay an agent big bucks to get the maximum rookie deal.

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07-07-2005, 11:07 PM
  #110
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From my post on the other thread on this idiotic topic:

From the toronto Star:


Quote:
Lugano sports director Jorge Eberle said the team has had discussions with Crosby, but maintains they were initiated through Crosby's agent and no firm offer has been made.

You may also want to check out Damian Cox's take on it. He points out the history that Brisson has of rather hamfistedly and amateurishly trying to use the media to get what he wants for his client.

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Old
07-07-2005, 11:16 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
The skill is in hiring the right scouts. It's in having a good idea of whether your player is the real deal or not. It's about paying guys the right amount of money.
In my opinon, that applies to rookies, too.
And the two sides have determined what the right amount of money is.

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Old
07-08-2005, 02:18 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
I don't know, I don't see the European leagues wanting to spend a lot of money on 18 year old players just to develop them for the NHL. A 30 year old former NHL player at a reasonable cost will probably be more effective for them than a newly drafted player will at that young of an age.
To make a long rant short:

Perhaps... Perhaps not... No one knows... Not me... Not you... Not Bettman... We will see...

To make a short rant long:

As well documented by scientists, there exists an opposite equivalent for every direction or distance... With significant change of direction (like building a brand new economic landscape - especially as quickly and significantly as the NHL is looking to do - and reportedly close to being done), positives are not the only possible outcomes (negatives are also possible)... With having rookie salaries strictly defined and capped, having agents trying to persuade young star players to play a few years in Europe is, IMO, a possible outcome… Chances are, some of these star players will go… especially the European players… The player agents can put together a compelling argument that by playing in Europe, you (the young star player) will be able to hone your skills playing against professional men… The new NHL is advertised to be skill oriented and high scoring – not defensive systems and low scoring… European hockey is known for its skill… Whereas before, I (the player agent) would recommend that you (the young star player) play in North America to learn the North American defensive system game, to succeed at a high level in the new promised NHL, you have to groom your skills… You can do this in Europe well, and you can do this for significantly more money (where I define significantly more money as being at least double what you can earn in North America)… After a few years, you will be good to go for the NHL and well on your way to realize your dream (as an early 20 year old – while having millions more in your bank account, and armed with real life experience living and breathing in another culture as a young adult – which is priceless)… In two short years as a young adult, you would have accomplished more than most do in their entire lives - and what you earn (financially and through experiences) in those years will last you a lifetime... For the ‘cream of the crop’ players, IMO, it’s not a far-fetched situation – nor an unattractive opportunity… Personally, I wouldn’t blame Crosby or any other player for considering and/or embracing it… And the European teams may even want Crosby and the other young star players – and thus, perhaps they are willing to pay significantly more than the NHL can in order to get them… The European teams have a taste now of getting NHL players (thanks to the lockout)… Some of these players were quite young (such as Nash)… Perhaps some of the European leagues have an appetite for more… And if these European teams were willing to take these players under the understanding that they may only be with the team for half a season (or less) – keeping them warm for the NHL, IMO, I think it's reasonable to assume that these European teams would also consider taking these players for a few years – keeping them warm for the NHL…

I don’t think that there would be a mass exodus of players leaving to Europe, but I personally wouldn’t be surprised if the ‘cream of the crop’ players (say the top 5 or so in each draft class), were being urged by their player agents to consider the European alternative… and I wouldn’t be surprised if it became a regular occurrence that some went that route…

This CBA (whatever the details are) has the potential to be both beautiful and ugly, kind and cruel... Every variety of existence between the teams and players cannot be accounted for... The CBA will surely have points missing or miscalculated... Despite best intentions, loopholes will exist... as the CBA is being created by humans, and humans are incapable of creating perfect systems... since humans don't have the tools to measure anything to degrees of infinity... And even if humans could (which we can’t), Heisenberg’s principle of uncertainty would leave us with another factor that would be infinitely uncertain…

IMO, unforeseen, unwanted consequences are going to result from the quick implementation of this new, untested, man-made CBA - which is a dramatic change… IMO, too much is being done too fast... but that's for a different post

Chances are, IMO, Crosby and/or other young star players may go to Europe to play (at least for a few years)… IMO, if this does happen, there are both positives and negatives to this, and that’s just the way it is…

I guess we'll see what happens in the next few months and coming years...

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