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Old
01-24-2011, 08:04 AM
  #26
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BikeGiftingMan View Post
Every year there is a guy who falls further than expected. Are you willing to deal that pick with the possibility that SC or Strome falls to you? I'm sure as hell not, at least not for Bergeron.

25 years old means he will be hitting UFA soon. Do you want him leaving as a UFA as soon as Myers, Ennis, et al are finding their NHL groove?

Plus all of what Dig said. Bergeron isn't the cure for the problem. Could he be part of it? Sure, why not. But I'm not willing to give up that much just to start to address it.
He's signed for 3 more years AFTER this season is over...

It's quite simple... I would trade Stafford and Sekera if it guaranteed that our #1 pick this year was a 70 pt top 6 center...

Sean Couturier falling to #7...

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01-24-2011, 08:15 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
He's signed for 3 more years AFTER this season is over...

It's quite simple... I would trade Stafford and Sekera if it guaranteed that our #1 pick this year was a 70 pt top 6 center...

Sean Couturier falling to #7...
70 point center....3 years ago.


Question: Aside from Tim Connolly, name an NHL player who has 2 concussions on his NHL resume, including one that sidelined him for an entire year.

Answer: Patrice Bergeron.


Basically you want to trade a couple of guys who might be finally starting to reach their potential, along with a top 10 draft choice, for a guy who has already had at least one severe concussion and won't make the team into a Cup contender.



And the draft isn't today. It looks like a top 10 pick for Buffalo, but it could be 7, it could be 9, it could be 4. Miller could get hit by a god damn bus today and break both his legs and they could draft 1st overall. And Central Scouting has Saad ranked as the 8th guy for North Americans, along with Strome in the late teens. If Strome, Larsson, SC, RNH, and Landeskog are all off the board, I think I would take Armia or Huberdeau.

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01-24-2011, 08:53 AM
  #28
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BikeGiftingMan View Post
70 point center....3 years ago.
and he's on pace for it this year

Quote:

Question: Aside from Tim Connolly, name an NHL player who has 2 concussions on his NHL resume, including one that sidelined him for an entire year.

Answer: Patrice Bergeron.
um... Pat Lafontaine.


Quote:
Basically you want to trade a couple of guys who might be finally starting to reach their potential, along with a top 10 draft choice, for a guy who has already had at least one severe concussion and won't make the team into a Cup contender.
getting a top 6 center is the first, and most important step this franchise can take towards becoming a contender.



Quote:
And the draft isn't today. It looks like a top 10 pick for Buffalo, but it could be 7, it could be 9, it could be 4. Miller could get hit by a god damn bus today and break both his legs and they could draft 1st overall. And Central Scouting has Saad ranked as the 8th guy for North Americans, along with Strome in the late teens. If Strome, Larsson, SC, RNH, and Landeskog are all off the board, I think I would take Armia or Huberdeau.
then not trading the pick for a top 6 center would, in retrospect, been an epic failure.

Armia would be the worst possible pick

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01-24-2011, 09:08 AM
  #29
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Just say no to Armia.

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01-24-2011, 09:35 AM
  #30
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I look for Dallas to re-sign Richards at the deadline and deal Ribeiro in the offseason. Richards has become the face of that franchise. It would be foolish of the lenders and league not to give approval. He's the key figure that makes that team marketable. I'd be perfectly happy trading for Ribeiro. He's signed for a couple more seasons at $5M per.

The Bruins aren't going to consider trading Bergeron unless they can upgrade the position. He's their leading scorer and best faceoff man. Savard is still struggling badly and Seguin hasn't emerged. He's a key player with only a $5 million cap hit. They'd be nuts to deal him for a couple inconsistent players who may or may not have turned the corner. Since they already have the Leafs #1 pick, I can't see them lusting after the Sabres. I'm sure they'll gladly part with Savard if he'll waive his no trade clause.

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01-24-2011, 09:57 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Buffaloed View Post
I look for Dallas to re-sign Richards at the deadline and deal Ribeiro in the offseason. Richards has become the face of that franchise. It would be foolish of the lenders and league not to give approval. He's the key figure that makes that team marketable. I'd be perfectly happy trading for Ribeiro. He's signed for a couple more seasons at $5M per.

The Bruins aren't going to consider trading Bergeron unless they can upgrade the position. He's their leading scorer and best faceoff man. Savard is still struggling badly and Seguin hasn't emerged. He's a key player with only a $5 million cap hit. They'd be nuts to deal him for a couple inconsistent players who may or may not have turned the corner. Since they already have the Leafs #1 pick, I can't see them lusting after the Sabres. I'm sure they'll gladly part with Savard if he'll waive his no trade clause.
I completely agree... I was just shocked to hear Sabres fans say NO to the hypothetical.

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01-24-2011, 10:16 AM
  #32
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To the OP....

I'll take Stafford over Tanguay every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

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01-24-2011, 10:21 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
He's signed for 3 more years AFTER this season is over...

It's quite simple... I would trade Stafford and Sekera if it guaranteed that our #1 pick this year was a 70 pt top 6 center...

Sean Couturier falling to #7...
Cam Fowler falling to #12 .....oh wait he did.

I'm not saying Couturier will also, but there could definitely be some great talent available when we pick. Myers and Kassian were both out of the top 10.

So many people on here complain about just making the playoffs and not winning the Cup or having the #13 pick when we don't make it. Moving some valueable pieces for essentially another Tim Connolly (who so many people complain about) makes little sense to me.

Trade Stafford ? Sure. End of his contract, breakout season/career year = time to move him. Trade Sekera? No problem. Our strongest depth is on defense and this could be as good as he gets.

I don't have a problem moving the pieces we're giving up, but I don't think acquiring Bergeron is putting us any closer to where we want to be.....Cup Champions.

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01-24-2011, 12:15 PM
  #34
Jame
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Originally Posted by Digable5 View Post
Cam Fowler falling to #12 .....oh wait he did.

I'm not saying Couturier will also, but there could definitely be some great talent available when we pick. Myers and Kassian were both out of the top 10.
Actually... that's exactly what you just did. I laughed at the idea of Couturier falling to 7... and you gave an example of Cam Fowler falling to 12.

There is NO way Couturier falls past #5, and I would be shocked if he wasn't taken in the top 3.

Quote:
So many people on here complain about just making the playoffs and not winning the Cup or having the #13 pick when we don't make it. Moving some valueable pieces for essentially another Tim Connolly (who so many people complain about) makes little sense to me.
We have different opinions on Bergeron


Quote:
Trade Stafford ? Sure. End of his contract, breakout season/career year = time to move him. Trade Sekera? No problem. Our strongest depth is on defense and this could be as good as he gets.

I don't have a problem moving the pieces we're giving up, but I don't think acquiring Bergeron is putting us any closer to where we want to be.....Cup Champions.
So, you would trade Stafford, Sekera, 1st for a 25 year old, top 6 center right? Just not Bergeron...
Would that be a fair categorizing of your position ?

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01-24-2011, 12:32 PM
  #35
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Got to agree with Jame here... he's made all the points I was going to in defence of the original proposal.

If you have a problem with Bergeron, put in Krejci. As I said I'd prefer him anyway but would really like either. Neither are bona fide number 1 centres - but find my any realistic way of trading for one of those without giving up Myers +. Both are very competent 1b/2a types just like Roy - and having two players like that down the middle would be good enough for me.

IF any team doesn't do this its Boston - although on this years form Staff is an upgrade over Wheeler, Sekera would be a perfect (and cheap) partner for Chara and having two top 15 picks, 3 in the 1st round would hardly hurt their future. Seems to work for both in a lot of ways but believe me, I bet a lot of their fans would not do this trade.

If you have a problem with trading a high pick for something that seriously helps your team now, why not just break the team up now and completely rebuild. Trade Roy, Vanek, Pominville, Miller etc. for a **** load of draft picks? Its risky since there's a Zagrapan and Persson for every Myers, andyou can forget about the playoffs for the next 5 years as well.

I don't think the current Sabres team is that bad and ready for this type of break up. They just need a couple of (albeit major) pieces and they are quite easily a playoff team IMO with a good future. And even giving up a 1st rounder this year would not hurt the draft too badly since I think we could trade Connolly and Montador, and still have four picks in the top 3 rounds.

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Old
01-24-2011, 01:00 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
and still have four picks in the top 3 rounds.
Five if Boston sends one back in that deal.

To expand on it - how does this look:

Deadline:
Trade Connolly to XXXX for 2nd rounder.
Trade Montador to XXXX for 2nd rounder.
Trade Grier/Niedermayer/Rivet for anything if you can get it.

Summer/Pre draft:
Trade Sekera/Stafford to Boston for Bergeron or Krejci/Wheeler and a 3rd.
Trade that 3rd to Edmonton for Gilbert Brule.
Trade Butler/Gragnani for whatever picks you can get unless you really see these guys staying ahead of Brennan/McNab and the like in future.

Draft:
Use 3 of the first 60 picks in the draft to get forwards (preferably centres) - luck dictates you should strike lucky at least once. Fill out with a goalie and then whatever long shots they have in the later rounds.

Free Agency:
Make a BIG play to get one of Pitkanen or Ehrhoff. $5m/5yrs minimum. If this fails Kaberle is plan C.
Resign Wheeler to a reasonable deal that would likely be less or equal to what Staff gets. Say $2.5m/3yrs or something along those lines.
Resign McCormick for around $1m/3yrs - not sure of his value maybe its slightly more.
If both Butler and Gragnani are gone, go out and get a decent bottom pairing guy for bottom pairing money. No names at the moment. Maybe even resign Montador.
Get a capable backup goalie unless they are prepared to give Enroth 20 odd games and find a competent goalie for the reserves.

Vanek-Roy-Wheeler
Ennis-Bergeron/Krejci-Pominville
Hecht/Gerbe-Brule-McCormick (Kassian maybe)
Gerbe/Hecht-Gaustad-Kaleta
Adam

Ehrhoff/Pitkanen/Kaberle-Myers
Leopold-Weber
Morrisonn-Butler/Gragnani/Brennan etc. etc.

Miller
Enroth/other backup

Would be under the cap and better than this seasons team.

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01-24-2011, 01:08 PM
  #37
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I think at this point with all of his injuries you're looking at a 4th and a crappy prospect for Connolly if you're lucky.

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Old
01-24-2011, 01:10 PM
  #38
Rowley Birkin
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I think at this point with all of his injuries you're looking at a 4th and a crappy prospect for Connolly if you're lucky.
Maybe. I still think a team might offer a late 2nd at the deadline for him though.

Looking at my LU - maybe the best thing for the D would be to resign Montador if they could swing it - trade Butler and keep Gragnani around as a 7D/13/14F utility player - depends on how it goes for him really.

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Old
01-24-2011, 01:35 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
um... Pat Lafontaine.
And he had to retire early because of it. Good example.


Quote:
getting a top 6 center is the first, and most important step this franchise can take towards becoming a contender.
I agree, BUT I don't feel that adding Bergeron to the mix suddenly turns this team into a contender. Everybody wants to move Monty and Timmy for 2nd round picks; why not dangle two 2nds around and try to get a centerman? They dealt two 2nds for Hecht and that worked out pretty well for awhile. There are guys out there who could be acquired for approximately that value, instead of dealing a lot to a division rival for a player who is a big hit away from potential retirement.

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01-24-2011, 01:46 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by BikeGiftingMan View Post
I agree, BUT I don't feel that adding Bergeron to the mix suddenly turns this team into a contender. Everybody wants to move Monty and Timmy for 2nd round picks; why not dangle two 2nds around and try to get a centerman? They dealt two 2nds for Hecht and that worked out pretty well for awhile. There are guys out there who could be acquired for approximately that value, instead of dealing a lot to a division rival for a player who is a big hit away from potential retirement.
Any player is potentially one big hit away from retirement. Replace Bergeron with Krejci in the scenario if you have that much of a problem with him.

And while it would be nice to send two 2nd's to someone for a player of their caibre the truth is that doesn't do it. Two 2nd's got us a 2B/3A winger in Hecht - that is not a 1B/2A centre. You have to give to get in a trade, and I think to have any chance at making this one work you have to give up the 1st as well. Ask some Bruins fans if you want - but as I said if any team declines this one its them - and I think both teams have good reasons to make the move.

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Old
01-24-2011, 01:49 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BikeGiftingMan View Post
And he had to retire early because of it. Good example.




I agree, BUT I don't feel that adding Bergeron to the mix suddenly turns this team into a contender. Everybody wants to move Monty and Timmy for 2nd round picks; why not dangle two 2nds around and try to get a centerman? They dealt two 2nds for Hecht and that worked out pretty well for awhile. There are guys out there who could be acquired for approximately that value, instead of dealing a lot to a division rival for a player who is a big hit away from potential retirement.
they were not a contender until they had 2 top 6 centers...

i noticed you avoided my question...

Stafford, Sekera, 1st for a yet to hit his prime top 6 center... yes or no?


Last edited by Jame: 01-24-2011 at 01:50 PM. Reason: wrong person...
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Old
01-24-2011, 01:52 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
Any player is potentially one big hit away from retirement. Replace Bergeron with Krejci in the scenario if you have that much of a problem with him.

And while it would be nice to send two 2nd's to someone for a player of their caibre the truth is that doesn't do it. Two 2nd's got us a 2B/3A winger in Hecht - that is not a 1B/2A centre. You have to give to get in a trade, and I think to have any chance at making this one work you have to give up the 1st as well. Ask some Bruins fans if you want - but as I said if any team declines this one its them - and I think both teams have good reasons to make the move.
Hecht still had considerable potential at the time of his acquisition. If two 2nds doesn't do it, trade a d-prospect, or even a guy like Butler,along with it. I also don't like the idea of trading within the division.

And I would rather K than B, but still would be uncomfortable dealing that package for him.

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01-24-2011, 02:12 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by BikeGiftingMan View Post
Hecht still had considerable potential at the time of his acquisition. If two 2nds doesn't do it, trade a d-prospect, or even a guy like Butler,along with it. I also don't like the idea of trading within the division.
Nah. Hecht has never been as good, or had as much 'value' as either of these guys - he's not that type of player. Just my opinion.

I'd have thought Butler has little value at the moment. Sekera certainly has more and while I wouldn't want to trade him you have to give to get. Same for Staff and the 1st.

Forget the division thing. The trade won't happen anyway we're all talking hypothetically. As a note I think too much is made of the 'trading within the division' disclaimer.

Quote:
And I would rather K than B, but still would be uncomfortable dealing that package for him.
Why?

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01-24-2011, 08:55 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Actually... that's exactly what you just did. I laughed at the idea of Couturier falling to 7... and you gave an example of Cam Fowler falling to 12.

There is NO way Couturier falls past #5, and I would be shocked if he wasn't taken in the top 3.



We have different opinions on Bergeron




So, you would trade Stafford, Sekera, 1st for a 25 year old, top 6 center right? Just not Bergeron...
Would that be a fair categorizing of your position ?
I'm not saying Couturier specifically will drop that far, I'm saying top prospects drop in the draft pretty regularly and chose Fowler as an example.

I'm not sure we have completely different opppinions on Bergeron, I've liked him for a while. But, I'm also a fan of Connolly's. I don't think we need another "top 6" C. We need a No. 1 center. Especially to give up a 25 year old "top 6" RW, a 24 year old "top 4" D, and potentially a top 10 pick for him.

I would be happy to have Bergeron on this team, I just don't like the offer. Recently we've added Myers and Kassian just outside the top ten in the draft. Would you add either of them to Stafford and Sekera and still make that deal? I wouldn't. Ennis was a late first rounder and I wouldn't add him either.

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01-24-2011, 10:47 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
Five if Boston sends one back in that deal.

To expand on it - how does this look:

Deadline:
Trade Connolly to XXXX for 2nd rounder.
Trade Montador to XXXX for 2nd rounder.
Trade Grier/Niedermayer/Rivet for anything if you can get it.

Summer/Pre draft:
Trade Sekera/Stafford to Boston for Bergeron or Krejci/Wheeler and a 3rd.
Trade that 3rd to Edmonton for Gilbert Brule.
Trade Butler/Gragnani for whatever picks you can get unless you really see these guys staying ahead of Brennan/McNab and the like in future.

Draft:
Use 3 of the first 60 picks in the draft to get forwards (preferably centres) - luck dictates you should strike lucky at least once. Fill out with a goalie and then whatever long shots they have in the later rounds.

Free Agency:
Make a BIG play to get one of Pitkanen or Ehrhoff. $5m/5yrs minimum. If this fails Kaberle is plan C.
Resign Wheeler to a reasonable deal that would likely be less or equal to what Staff gets. Say $2.5m/3yrs or something along those lines.
Resign McCormick for around $1m/3yrs - not sure of his value maybe its slightly more.
If both Butler and Gragnani are gone, go out and get a decent bottom pairing guy for bottom pairing money. No names at the moment. Maybe even resign Montador.
Get a capable backup goalie unless they are prepared to give Enroth 20 odd games and find a competent goalie for the reserves.

Vanek-Roy-Wheeler
Ennis-Bergeron/Krejci-Pominville
Hecht/Gerbe-Brule-McCormick (Kassian maybe)
Gerbe/Hecht-Gaustad-Kaleta
Adam

Ehrhoff/Pitkanen/Kaberle-Myers
Leopold-Weber
Morrisonn-Butler/Gragnani/Brennan etc. etc.

Miller
Enroth/other backup

Would be under the cap and better than this seasons team.
Send your resume here, or just give him a call:
http://www.spokeo.com/search?q=Terre...327160987/info

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01-26-2011, 07:44 AM
  #46
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with byron, ennis and adam here I would like to see roy traded for a real top center.

a package of roy, stafford or sekera and our first rounder could get us that center, i think.....

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01-26-2011, 08:48 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Luceni View Post
with byron, ennis and adam here I would like to see roy traded for a real top center.

a package of roy, stafford or sekera and our first rounder could get us that center, i think.....
Who's our #2 center then? Ennis has been used as a LW since he turned pro and that's his natural position. Adam is also a natural LW and there are some real questions regarding whether he can be a center at the NHL level. And Byron, though he's looked good so far, will have to prove he can overcome his lack of size on a consistent basis.

That package would probably be overpayment for most players.

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01-26-2011, 09:30 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Luceni View Post
with byron, ennis and adam here I would like to see roy traded for a real top center.

a package of roy, stafford or sekera and our first rounder could get us that center, i think.....
Hm, we lack depth at center. I know! Let's trade the center we have that's actually doing his job and producing.

Sorry, that just doesn't make sense to me.

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Old
01-26-2011, 10:53 AM
  #49
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Hm, we lack depth at center. I know! Let's trade the center we have that's actually doing his job and producing.

Sorry, that just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't agree with it, but you [theoretically] getting back a center just as good as Roy.

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01-26-2011, 10:58 AM
  #50
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Hm, we lack depth at center. I know! Let's trade the center we have that's actually doing his job and producing.

Sorry, that just doesn't make sense to me.
What she was trying to say was that with Ennis, Adam and Byron looking like solid NHL'ers that upgrading our current #1 center is a possibility. I'm not sold on the idea, but I can see the point.

Take out Roy and sub in Richards or equivalent and I can see how that would be an improvement given further development of Ennis, Adam and Byron into next season. Any two of them at center and we're now three offensive centers deep again.

Of course having Roy as the #2 guy would be better, but we don't have the assets otherwise to get that top-tier #1.

Ta,

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