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Old
01-26-2011, 01:55 AM
  #176
AKAY47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Linden Vey and Kitstyn too and I still think that Simmonds and Clifford will both evolve into 20 goal scorers.
I'm still not sold on Linden Vey but I definitely forgot about Kitsyn, my apologies. Simmonds might eventually pop 20 goals in with another head coach, definitely not under Terry Murray though. Clifford won't ever be a 20 goal scorer lol, not in my opinion. It really depends which system they're both playing in but as long as TM is the coach, both those guys aren't 20 goal scorers.

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01-26-2011, 09:54 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
Clifford at center? Whaaat? Ryan Smyth 4th line winger? whahhahaatttt.. Let's look at next year's lineup from a more realistic standpoint lol..

Loktionov-Kopitar-Semin (?)
Smyth-Stoll-Brown
Clifford-Schenn-Simmonds
Parse-Lewis-Richardson

Mitchell-Doughty
Scuderi-JJ
Greene-Martinez/Voynov/Muzzin
there's nothing realistic about putting Smyth & Stoll on the 2nd line in 2012...unless the cup itself remains a fantasy for you that's fine

but you're not going anywhere in the playoffs if an aging banged up Smyth and a 3rd line center Stoll are playing on your 2nd line.

and Clifford won't jump ahead Parse on the LW before Parse gets a REALISTIC shot...

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Old
01-26-2011, 10:59 AM
  #178
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Simmonds m i g h t pull 20 out under TM but I agree that it will exceptionally hard for Clifford. I have been gather scout tapes on Vey and from what I am seeing so far he is as good as advertised. I will be spending a week watching him play in Feb and will have a better ability to comment on his game. From what I have seen up to this point he is very impressive.

Kitsyn in my opinion will be our second line LW mucker who will get his 20-25 a year while driving our opponents crazy. He is about 3 years away if things continue on as they are but the kid likes to work so who knows.

Your point stands in other ways 47, we haven't developed a legitimate hands down sniper just yet. They aren't easy to come by but I see all of our kid forwards as being solid blue collar types and not speed snipers but it is possible that one of them develops or is dealt and as such becomes one.

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Old
01-26-2011, 11:13 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
"... we haven't developed a legitimate hands down sniper just yet. ..."

Sure we have. He plays for Montreal!


Or is it the Rangers....? Islanders....? Lightning......?!

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Old
01-26-2011, 11:34 AM
  #180
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People are worried about how Clifford will fair down the road under Murray. Kyle Clifford just turned 20 years old. Terry Murray is how old?

Think about it. Clifford's offensive game is going to be limited by whatever skills Clifford develops. If he learns how to stick handle in a phone booth he is going to score more goals in tight, or did Terry Murray fan on that chance Kyle had against Boston in the last game.

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Old
01-26-2011, 11:37 AM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
I'm still not sold on Linden Vey but I definitely forgot about Kitsyn, my apologies. Simmonds might eventually pop 20 goals in with another head coach, definitely not under Terry Murray though. Clifford won't ever be a 20 goal scorer lol, not in my opinion. It really depends which system they're both playing in but as long as TM is the coach, both those guys aren't 20 goal scorers.
You don't think Clifford will ever be a 20 goal scorer?

I think you are crazy to say that. The kid is learning so much so quickly. He's made some outright power forward moves down low that make me think he will be in the 20-25 goal range for years once he hits his potential.

A couple games ago (can't remember specifically which one) he looked as though he was going to go hard around the net and then, without slowing down, cut to the front with the puck. Granted, it got lost in his skates, but that's a move he wasn't trying 3 months ago.

I don't see Clifford getting 20+ for another couple of years, but I think he'll be a perennial 20 goal scorer once he does get there.

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Old
01-26-2011, 11:40 AM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
People are worried about how Clifford will fair down the road under Murray. Kyle Clifford just turned 20 years old. Terry Murray is how old?

Think about it. Clifford's offensive game is going to be limited by whatever skills Clifford develops. If he learns how to stick handle in a phone booth he is going to score more goals in tight, or did Terry Murray fan on that chance Kyle had against Boston in the last game.
That's what I'm talking about...

He's already got the size and strength. He's hungry to learn the nuances of the game he'll (I think) he'll excel at (power forward). The potential is definitely there, regardless of the coach.

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Old
01-26-2011, 11:42 AM
  #183
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Clifford is a 10-15 goal guy in the NHL, he may have an odd 20 goal season, but it will not become the norm. Perfect 3rd liner with Simmonds.

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01-26-2011, 11:43 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
He's proven he can draft D prospects well very well but when it comes to offense, we've literally got no one who can become a top 6 forward but Brayden Schenn, Andrei Loktionov, Oscar Moller and Tyler Toffoli.. Maybe Brandon Kozun one day, that's wishful thinking though
I know what you're saying but when your core players are all under 25, you dont need to have a ton of top 6 guyys in the minors... you just named 5. There are very few teams that have this problem. What we need is to start getting top 6 guys to want to come here or traded here. This is a luxury we havt had and that time is coming soon.

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01-26-2011, 11:43 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by jimmy1100 View Post
You don't think Clifford will ever be a 20 goal scorer?

I think you are crazy to say that. The kid is learning so much so quickly. He's made some outright power forward moves down low that make me think he will be in the 20-25 goal range for years once he hits his potential.

A couple games ago (can't remember specifically which one) he looked as though he was going to go hard around the net and then, without slowing down, cut to the front with the puck. Granted, it got lost in his skates, but that's a move he wasn't trying 3 months ago.

I don't see Clifford getting 20+ for another couple of years, but I think he'll be a perennial 20 goal scorer once he does get there.
I think if he went back to juniors this year and focused just scoring, we may have very well seen that. There is still a chance though

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Old
01-26-2011, 11:46 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
I'm still not sold on Linden Vey but I definitely forgot about Kitsyn, my apologies. Simmonds might eventually pop 20 goals in with another head coach, definitely not under Terry Murray though. Clifford won't ever be a 20 goal scorer lol, not in my opinion. It really depends which system they're both playing in but as long as TM is the coach, both those guys aren't 20 goal scorers.
How can anyone be sold on a 4th round draft pick that is 19 years old? These are diamond in the rough area but his stats in juniors should at least put him on your list as potential top 6 guys of the future. Him and Jordan Weal who many people are "sold" on.

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Old
01-26-2011, 11:56 AM
  #187
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If you're putting Richards in a potential lineup for next year, you haven't learned anything the past 3+ years. Seriously, do we need to pull up the threads around this time a few years back when we were penciling in Gomez or Drury (thank god we didn't sign those guys), or when we penciled in Hossa, or how about just this past summer with Kovy? Richards will not be a King. He will stay a Star, where he wants to be and where I believe they will find the money, new owners or not. If he's not a Star, he won't be a King. I'm willing to bet on it.

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Old
01-26-2011, 12:17 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by KingPuckChoo View Post
there's nothing realistic about putting Smyth & Stoll on the 2nd line in 2012...unless the cup itself remains a fantasy for you that's fine

but you're not going anywhere in the playoffs if an aging banged up Smyth and a 3rd line center Stoll are playing on your 2nd line.

and Clifford won't jump ahead Parse on the LW before Parse gets a REALISTIC shot...
Stoll is on the 2nd line because he is a 2nd line center. Stoll sits 32nd in points among centers, 5th in FO%, 13th in hits. 23rd in goals, 43rd in assists. How many 3rd line centers have those stats? Hes not a 1a like so many want but he is a solid #2 center no matter what way you look at it.

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Old
01-26-2011, 01:14 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
Stoll is on the 2nd line because he is a 2nd line center. Stoll sits 32nd in points among centers, 5th in FO%, 13th in hits. 23rd in goals, 43rd in assists. How many 3rd line centers have those stats? Hes not a 1a like so many want but he is a solid #2 center no matter what way you look at it.
Well this can be debated either way. He is a good 3rd line center, because his offensive playmaking abilities are very limited. A good 2nd line center should have playmaking abilities and be able to handle the defensive abilities. His weakness can be masked a tad on the current 2nd line with Williams being the primary playmaker. If you were to put Brown on that line, and you would probably see where Stolls weakness as a 2nd line center lies.

Nobody is saying he is bad, and he has played well..but if we lose williams, im scared to see the output with a different linemate.

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Old
01-26-2011, 01:29 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Clifford is a 10-15 goal guy in the NHL, he may have an odd 20 goal season, but it will not become the norm. Perfect 3rd liner with Simmonds.
Can I borrow your crystal ball? :p

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Old
01-26-2011, 02:08 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by JBernierFan View Post
If you're putting Richards in a potential lineup for next year, you haven't learned anything the past 3+ years. Seriously, do we need to pull up the threads around this time a few years back when we were penciling in Gomez or Drury (thank god we didn't sign those guys), or when we penciled in Hossa, or how about just this past summer with Kovy? Richards will not be a King. He will stay a Star, where he wants to be and where I believe they will find the money, new owners or not. If he's not a Star, he won't be a King. I'm willing to bet on it.


My favorite one was Gaborik and how much he wanted to play with Kopitar. haha

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Old
01-26-2011, 02:23 PM
  #192
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My favorite one was Gaborik and how much he wanted to play with Kopitar. haha
Oh yeah, I put that one completely out of my mind. Add that one to my list of players who are "dying to play for the Kings and will be a King July 1".

So we have:

Gomez
Drury
Gaborik
Kovy
Havlat
Hossa...

Am I forgetting anyone else we penciled into the lineup in January as almost sure bets to be a King come summer?

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Old
01-26-2011, 02:25 PM
  #193
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I'd like to see LA move one of their surplus dman prospects to EDM for Curtis Hamilton. He is a 6'3 209lbs LW who played a little with Schenn at the WCJ's. He's only 19 and could be a very good 2nd/3rd line winger in the future. It would also add much needed depth to the LW. Kitsyn/Hamilton/Clifford

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Old
01-26-2011, 02:26 PM
  #194
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under Terry Murray though. Clifford won't ever be a 20 goal scorer lol, not in my opinion. It really depends which system they're both playing in but as long as TM is the coach, both those guys aren't 20 goal scorers.
This "Terry Murray doesn't coach offense" stuff has got to stop. Not simply because it's wrong but because it's just a internet meme. Kings are 13th in the whole NHL in Offense and 3rd in Defense in the Western Conference. We don't have a bad offense we have a average offense and at the end of the day the one thing you want in the NHL is defense. Defense is what matters in the playoffs. A great defense + average offense = playoffs.

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01-26-2011, 02:31 PM
  #195
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This "Terry Murray doesn't coach offense" stuff has got to stop. Not simply because it's wrong but because it's just a internet meme. Kings are 13th in the whole NHL in Offense and 3rd in Defense in the Western Conference. We don't have a bad offense we have a average offense and at the end of the day the one thing you want in the NHL is defense. Defense is what matters in the playoffs. A great defense + average offense = playoffs.
We had that last year, and 1st round and out is not what I'm looking for.

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01-26-2011, 03:01 PM
  #196
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Nominating Toffoli as a homegrown potential sniper...

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Old
01-26-2011, 03:04 PM
  #197
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We had that last year, and 1st round and out is not what I'm looking for.
Also had some first timers in the playoffs....

They were a couple of skips, bounces, and a breakaway from damaging an excellent franchise. It's just hockey not engineering.

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Old
01-26-2011, 03:12 PM
  #198
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Quote:
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Nominating Toffoli as a homegrown potential sniper...
I have very high hopes for him. I also have high hopes for Vey, I think he could provide some nice bottom 6/ third line offense in the future.

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01-26-2011, 03:20 PM
  #199
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Well this can be debated either way. He is a good 3rd line center, because his offensive playmaking abilities are very limited. A good 2nd line center should have playmaking abilities and be able to handle the defensive abilities. His weakness can be masked a tad on the current 2nd line with Williams being the primary playmaker. If you were to put Brown on that line, and you would probably see where Stolls weakness as a 2nd line center lies.

Nobody is saying he is bad, and he has played well..but if we lose williams, im scared to see the output with a different linemate.
Much like Brown was on his line last year without Williams? Hes on nearly the same exact pace he was last year having Williams on his line this year. His 82 game pace last year was 52 pts, this year its 51.

Hes one of the better defensively responsible players on the Kings and his playmaking abilities arent that bad. Look at some of the names around him last year. Krejci, Bergeron, Jokinen, Koivu, Duchene. All considered 2nd line guys and all have similar assists numbers to Stoll.


Last edited by kingpest19: 01-26-2011 at 03:49 PM.
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01-26-2011, 03:39 PM
  #200
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Regarding Clifford and Simmonds as 20 goal scorers:

Simmonds notched 16 goals last season without PP time, this year he's on the same pace without the luxury of playing with Frolov. In Clifford's case, once he settled into the lineup after a shaky start, he's potted 4 goals since December, more accurately 4 goals in the last 24 games played. Production through gritty hard work, right now they're playing in the perfect environment to succeed. Looking ahead in their prime, they can only be better, with a few 20 seasons spread out in their careers, me thinks.

Quote:
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I'd like to see LA move one of their surplus dman prospects to EDM for Curtis Hamilton. He is a 6'3 209lbs LW who played a little with Schenn at the WCJ's. He's only 19 and could be a very good 2nd/3rd line winger in the future. It would also add much needed depth to the LW. Kitsyn/Hamilton/Clifford
From what I've heard Edmonton is really high on Hamilton. The fact that the Oilers are a team full of smurfs really adds to Hamilton's value. But don't fret, I think Kyle Clifford will end up the better player down the road.

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