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01-27-2011, 01:05 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Not sure if you noticed, but (outside of Meszaros) nothing Homer did around July 1st has any bearing on what we've accomplished thus far this season.
O'Donnell?

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01-27-2011, 01:06 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
Not sure if you noticed, but we are first in the NHL.

Sure there were some terrible moves but Gagne is a shadow of his former self down in Tampa and Walker was kinda just a throw in with the 4th. While that wasn't the greatest move, no one should be complaining about being tops in the league.
I don't think anyone is complaining about the team, except for the cap situation. Dumping Gagne's salary can be explained. Taking back most of it on a crappy defensemen cannot.

Gagne historically is slow coming back from an injury, but when he starts going he's fine. He's been great over the past week or so, so we'll see how he does the rest of the season.

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01-27-2011, 01:06 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Not sure if you noticed, but (outside of Meszaros) nothing Homer did around July 1st has any bearing on what we've accomplished thus far this season.
Que a debate...

I'm curious to know how you don't feel that every players accomplishment this far this season, has contributing in way or another to where the Flyers are in the standings to me.

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01-27-2011, 01:06 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
Yea but dont we already have a solidified 4th line?

Im sure with Homers antics he could somehow swing a deal where we got a 4th for Leighton. I mean, hell, we got Coburn for Zhitnik.

True I see and understand what you are saying. I do think this move is for Leino IMO. I think towards the deadline he'll either add someone who can kill some PK's for the stretch to give out top minute guys some rest and help out FO dept.

I don't think we need more depth on D. As Barts can go and has went in last playoffs and played well for 7th man in.

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01-27-2011, 01:07 PM
  #80
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Please let us just rejoice for the next 24hrs and enjoy this thread, no need for it to turn into another; Holmgren is dumb argument.

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01-27-2011, 01:08 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Gagne historically is slow coming back from an injury, [...]
Bruins fans LOL at that comment.

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01-27-2011, 01:09 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
Leighton and Shelley weren't good moves, but I don't see how the Walker move you can say was indefensible. Nobody was going to take 5.25 without sending some salary back, and I'm sure his NTC played into it being a one horse race with Tampa.
So hold the salary and let it expire. The rumor is that one of the hold ups in getting Leino signed is tagging, and what do you think the cause of our tagging problems is?

We could have managed Gagne's salary this year without too much trouble... our potential problems last summer were all next year with Carter/Giroux raises on the table. Homer locked Carter down to a low cap hit (for incredible length), and Giroux got a nice raise...

There was zero justification for taking Walker back in a cap dump deal. It would be one thing if it was one year of bad contract, but Walker had three years left.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
O'Donnell?
I'll give you that one. But Shelley is a waste of cap space and a horrid contract... and Leighton and Walker have played in a grand total of what, 4 games?

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Old
01-27-2011, 01:11 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Que a debate...

I'm curious to know how you don't feel that every players accomplishment this far this season, has contributing in way or another to where the Flyers are in the standings to me.
I'll jump into this one!

Meszaros has definitely contributed to the team's success.

Leighton? No
Walker? No
O'Donnell - Yes, to add a veteran presence and make the 3rd pairing something we don't cringe at.
Shelley? Maybe. But it's not significant.

I think there are a few solid reasons for the team's success, and they would have occurred without most of the stupid moves Homer made July 1 (and June 30):

1. Lavi, and the environment and playing style he's established
2. Bob

The forwards, outside of the addition of Shelley and subtraction of Gagne, are exactly the same as last year. They're working hard and having success (outside of the PP).

The defense is similar, but Mezsaros' addition has been significant, and O'Donnell has helped the 3rd pairing - at a reasonable price for a change.

That's pretty much it.

Edit: Forgot Zherdev. He's helped but he's not a massive difference maker.

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01-27-2011, 01:11 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Que a debate...

I'm curious to know how you don't feel that every players accomplishment this far this season, has contributing in way or another to where the Flyers are in the standings to me.
Michael Leighton and Matt Walker have not contributed to where the Flyers are in the standings. This isn't even debatable.

I'd be fascinated if you really feel that the Flyers would be worse without Shelley in the lineup... and, if so, will you be arguing that he should suit up in the playoffs?

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01-27-2011, 01:11 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Not sure if you noticed, but (outside of Meszaros) nothing Homer did around July 1st has any bearing on what we've accomplished thus far this season.
O'Donnell, Zherdev, Shelley, Bobrovsky.

All of them have had an effect on the team thus far. Some positive, some arguably not so.

I'll grant you, not all were on July 1st, but that is almost an arbitrary restriction. We have the benefit of hindsight and perspective, we should use it, and view the off-season in it's entirety.

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01-27-2011, 01:13 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
O'Donnell, Zherdev, Shelley, Bobrovsky.

All of them have had an effect on the team thus far. Some positive, some arguably not so.
Bob was signed well in advance of July 1st.

O'Donnell sure... Zherdev is negligible, and that is why he has been a healthy scratch and the team has shown no interest re-signing him. He's scored some goals... that's nice.

Shelley... whatever. Not even getting into the fallacy of goons in the modern NHL.

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01-27-2011, 01:13 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
Whenever you are put on waivers you get 24 hours to clear.
Players go on waivers at 12:00 p.m. and clear or are officially claimed 24 hours later.

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01-27-2011, 01:17 PM
  #88
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Jester I just want to do a little experiment.

Half Full or Empty?


Half Full or Empty?

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01-27-2011, 01:20 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
Next Shelly?!
Why would you give up your only "heavy" on the roster? Oh man, priceless.

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01-27-2011, 01:22 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
Not sure if you noticed, but we are first in the NHL.

Sure there were some terrible moves but Gagne is a shadow of his former self down in Tampa and Walker was kinda just a throw in with the 4th. While that wasn't the greatest move, no one should be complaining about being tops in the league.
you dont trade a 5.25 million dollar expiring contract after this season for a player that has 2 more years(and a horrible cap hit at that) on his contract. I am sorry, the Gagne trade was not a salary dump. It would be one thing if Walkers contract expired after this season. But it doesnt.
Gagne does have 9 goals after a slow start and I am willing to bet he finishes with 20 goals. again.

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01-27-2011, 01:23 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Michael Leighton and Matt Walker have not contributed to where the Flyers are in the standings. This isn't even debatable.
Obviously.

Quote:
I'd be fascinated if you really feel that the Flyers would be worse without Shelley in the lineup... and, if so, will you be arguing that he should suit up in the playoffs?
I don't think it would a great impact if he weren't playing, however I have a really hard time being pessimistic when my favourite team is #1 in the NHL right now. Sure, it's great to strive for perfection but perfection doesn't exist.

I suppose rather than enjoy the ride the Steelers ride that they've made thus far this to season, and into the Super Bowl, I should nit-pick them and question moves they made and why they didn't make others.

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01-27-2011, 01:25 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Bob was signed well in advance of July 1st.

O'Donnell sure... Zherdev is negligible, and that is why he has been a healthy scratch and the team has shown no interest re-signing him. He's scored some goals... that's nice.

Shelley... whatever. Not even getting into the fallacy of goons in the modern NHL.
My reasoning for including Bob in the discussion even though you limited it to "around July 1st" is stated in my above post. Signing Bob was probably the best thing Holmgren did regarding free-agency or otherwise, so excluding it on account of the timeline seems unfair.

O'Donnell has been outperforming his contract by a large margin. That is a pretty big deal. Mezsaros is is playing up to his contract and looking like a pretty decent trade.

I would argue that Zherdev and his 15 goals are somewhat important. Powe and Nodl (who's strengths as players are admittedly elsewhere) are certainly not producing that much with his minutes. Who else would we have used to fill out the top 9? The team has shown zero interest in resigning him because the salary cap forces them to choose somebody to not have back, not because his impact is negligible.

Shelley is Shelley, no argument here. I like him well enough I guess, but I don't think one person on the board really likes that contract, including myself.

It's also worth noting that we don't even know what the end contributions from these guys is going to be. Some of them might have terrible or brilliant second halfs, same can be said for their playoffs. I still think Homer could've done better with regards to the Gagne deal and the Leighton signing, but I have to say his bad moves haven't been as harmful as I thought they might.

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01-27-2011, 01:27 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Obviously.
So there's one.

Quote:
I don't think it would a great impact if he weren't playing, however I have a really hard time being pessimistic when my favourite team is #1 in the NHL right now. Sure, it's great to strive for perfection but perfection doesn't exist.
Why is noting that there were problems being pessimistic? Pretty optimistic about the future for this team. However, the fact of the matter is that it was noted in July that Homer did a slew of stupid, and two of those stupids have been on the waiver wire and one is in the AHL already.

Quote:
I suppose rather than enjoy the ride the Steelers ride that they've made thus far this to season, and into the Super Bowl, I should nit-pick them and question moves they made and why they didn't make others.
I'd be curious what moves you could get at the Steelers on, given that they are one of the better run franchises in sports and have been for some time. I'd be more concerned about the fact that I was rooting for a team led by a rapist... but that's just me.

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01-27-2011, 01:32 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
So hold the salary and let it expire. The rumor is that one of the hold ups in getting Leino signed is tagging, and what do you think the cause of our tagging problems is?

We could have managed Gagne's salary this year without too much trouble... our potential problems last summer were all next year with Carter/Giroux raises on the table. Homer locked Carter down to a low cap hit (for incredible length), and Giroux got a nice raise...

There was zero justification for taking Walker back in a cap dump deal. It would be one thing if it was one year of bad contract, but Walker had three years left.



I'll give you that one. But Shelley is a waste of cap space and a horrid contract... and Leighton and Walker have played in a grand total of what, 4 games?
The article that was posted yesterday had a quote from the Assistant GM saying tagging space was not the issue.

"A formula that factors expiring contracts into the mix leaves the Flyers with just under $4.1 million of "tagging" space, according to assistant general manager Barry Hanrahan.

The amount of tagging space must be greater than the amount of the salary-cap hit the Flyers will pay a player.

Because Leino is expected to sign a multiyear deal in the $2.3 million-per-season range, there is plenty of room for an agreement to be reached this season."

http://m.philly.com/phillycom/pm_101...tguid=5wA1zdES

With that being said I still have no desire to see Gagne on this team with that cap hit. 5.25 million for 13 points and a -19? Sorry but I'de rather him not be in the lineup if it means not carrying that albatross of a cap hit around.

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01-27-2011, 01:33 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Why is noting that there were problems being pessimistic? Pretty optimistic about the future for this team. However, the fact of the matter is that it was noted in July that Homer did a slew of stupid, and two of those stupids have been on the waiver wire and one is in the AHL already.

I'd be curious what moves you could get at the Steelers on, given that they are one of the better run franchises in sports and have been for some time. I'd be more concerned about the fact that I was rooting for a team led by a rapist... but that's just me.
I often read and enjoy your posts, but for me personally, I find it somewhat of a pessimistic viewpoint now and then. Sure Holmgren hasn't always made the best deals and decisions, but they are tied for top spot. I'm not going to piss on their parade.

Has he been charged?

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01-27-2011, 01:34 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
With that being said I still have no desire to see Gagne on this team with that cap hit. 5.25 million for 13 points and a -19? Sorry but I'de rather him not be in the lineup if it means not carrying that albatross of a cap hit around.
Do you really think Gagne would be -19 if he was playing here?

And Gagne's expiring contract was not an albatross. As just noted, you're easily getting to his deal with our current roster without dumping anyone that isn't expendable... and that's removing the fact that at least part of Gagne's problem is playing on a new team, with a new system, etc. etc. on top of injury woes.

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01-27-2011, 01:35 PM
  #97
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I often read and enjoy your posts, but for me personally, I find it somewhat of a pessimistic viewpoint now and then. Sure Holmgren hasn't always made the best deals and decisions, but they are tied for top spot. I'm not going to piss on their parade.

Has he been charged?
He was suspended for a reason, and the Steelers almost traded him for a reason (no one would give them a 1st, thus he's still with the Steelers).

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01-27-2011, 01:36 PM
  #98
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The only thing I would add to the Holmgren discussion is what he didn't do. While acquisitions have been mentioned, not signing one of the goalie FAs should be included.

This might be portrayed as a puff piece, but Sam at the Inq. has an article related to this topic:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...st_record.html

Quote:
These are highly satisfying times for the NHL's No. 1 team.

The Flyers head into the all-star break atop the league with 71 points in 50 games, a 16-point improvement over last season at this point.

There are several reasons for the progression, including the maturity gained from reaching last spring's Stanley Cup Finals, bounce-back seasons from Danny Briere and Scott Hartnell, and a breakout season from Claude Giroux.

Oh, and having coach Peter Laviolette for a full season.

Also at the top of the list: Paul Holmgren's magic touch.

Consider the players that the general manager has added since the middle of last season:

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01-27-2011, 01:38 PM
  #99
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The only thing I would add to the Holmgren discussion is what he didn't do. While acquisitions have been mentioned, not signing one of the goalie FAs should be included.

This might be portrayed a puff piece, but Sam at the Inq. has an article related to this topic:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20110127
No they got to you too MSE! Don't do it!

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01-27-2011, 01:38 PM
  #100
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The only thing I would add to the Holmgren discussion is what he didn't do. While acquisitions have been mentioned, not signing one of the goalie FAs should be included.
Well, he did... he signed Leighton.

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