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O Brownie, Brownie, Wherefore Art Thou Brownie?

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Old
01-27-2011, 12:20 PM
  #26
scramble91
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
good point, but there are two things he can control every game. two things the team and fans want every game. effort and physical play. he can control this every shift and when he plays with zero passion and sense of urgency. when he does this management, teammates and fans should be criticizing his game.

im not a hater or lover of DB, i just want effort every shift. his game is physical with some good scoring ability. to often when he slumps i think he gets away from the basics of what makes DB effective. play the body, cause TO's and havoc in the offensive zone. he does this then he will get his scoring chances.

if gets out there playing physically, causing havoc then LA will gain momentum and scoring chances. he does this he is leading by example, what a C should be doing every shift, every night.
very valid points. Brown is at his best when he just hits everything in site, and drives to the net.

I dont bash him for his point production, because he is what he is. Its his puck control, turnovers, and sometimes lack of effort which is killing any momentum the first line has had. If you watch the past few games, it seems whenver the puck got to him, it was instantly turned over.

On the Brighter side, the kings have been playing some strong defensive teams lately, which have been pressuring the 1st line quite a bit. This opens up matchups for the second line and they have been pretty soldi. Last night, SJ matched up their big line (SJs first line has pretty darn good defensive players in Joe and Patty) against ours, and we held them to minimal opportunities. I give alot of the credit to the D, but also Kopitar for keeping with Joe T. Lokti was lost defensively a few times last night which didnt help, but overall they kept SJ's first line on the perimeter.

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01-27-2011, 12:31 PM
  #27
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Lokti was lost defensively a few times last night which didnt help, but overall they kept SJ's first line on the perimeter.
it makes it tougher on Kopi/DB, but this has to happen in order for them to get better. Loki needs the ice time with LA to learn the NHL game. the quicker they start to insert the MAN kids and get them playing at this level, the quicker LA moves forward in it's quest for you know what.

im not saying they bring them all in at once, but the kids need to start getting the reps at the NHL level. it's going to be interesting post Feb 28th to see what LA does with call ups.

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01-27-2011, 12:42 PM
  #28
scramble91
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
it makes it tougher on Kopi/DB, but this has to happen in order for them to get better. Loki needs the ice time with LA to learn the NHL game. the quicker they start to insert the MAN kids and get them playing at this level, the quicker LA moves forward in it's quest for you know what.

im not saying they bring them all in at once, but the kids need to start getting the reps at the NHL level. it's going to be interesting post Feb 28th to see what LA does with call ups.
I dont disagree with that at all..in fact, im worried TM shuffles the lines again, and then Lokti wont get the ice time to learn. It might stifle the first line a tad, but unless we get a Penner type player at the TD, then i would hold the lines the same barring any injuries.

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01-27-2011, 01:05 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
good point, but there are two things he can control every game. two things the team and fans want every game. effort and physical play. he can control this every shift and when he plays with zero passion and sense of urgency. when he does this management, teammates and fans should be criticizing his game.

im not a hater or lover of DB, i just want effort every shift. his game is physical with some good scoring ability. to often when he slumps i think he gets away from the basics of what makes DB effective. play the body, cause TO's and havoc in the offensive zone. he does this then he will get his scoring chances.

if gets out there playing physically, causing havoc then LA will gain momentum and scoring chances. he does this he is leading by example, what a C should be doing every shift, every night.
That is exactly what I'm saying.

People are equating points or results to effort. I'm not. I don't care if he scores 10 goals a year as long as he is bringing what he can every night. That is my issue with the guy.

I don't believe for a second that anyone of you actually believes Brown was trying his hardest last night. That might be one of the worst games I've seen him play in a few years. Maybe I'm overanalyzing but what I saw was a guy who was going through the motions and at times looked completely disinterested in what was a fairly critical game. Again, at one point while the Kings are down by a goal in the 3rd and on the PP, Brown falls (arguably a dive but whatever - not gonna go there) and sits on the ice looking at the ref for a call when if he would have picked himself up, there was a loose puck in the corner that he had a good chance at retrieving. And this was right at the beginning of his shift. I'm sorry but there is not excuse for that from ANY player at this stage in the season and especially the captain.

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01-27-2011, 01:35 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by scramble91 View Post
I dont disagree with that at all..in fact, im worried TM shuffles the lines again, and then Lokti wont get the ice time to learn. It might stifle the first line a tad, but unless we get a Penner type player at the TD, then i would hold the lines the same barring any injuries.
he better not shuffle. if there is one BIG issue i have with TMu is his constant line juggling ********. it doesnt accomplish anything. TMu keeps thinking he is going to find 'lightning in a bottle' every time he moves 'player x' onto 'line y'. it ain't happening otherwise he would have found it. players gain chemistry by playing together, not by getting shuffled to another line every other week.

the combo of the F3 so high in the O zone which limits the offensive support. coupled with the constant line juggling and lack of chemistry is why i think LA struggles offensively at times. at the same time this can also have a detrimental effect on the defensive system that TMu preaches. when players don't know how a linemate will react it leads to breakdowns in the 'system' as the result of guys over/under reacting to someone they haven't skated with.

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01-27-2011, 01:39 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
That is exactly what I'm saying.

People are equating points or results to effort. I'm not. I don't care if he scores 10 goals a year as long as he is bringing what he can every night. That is my issue with the guy.I don't believe for a second that anyone of you actually believes Brown was trying his hardest last night. That might be one of the worst games I've seen him play in a few years. Maybe I'm overanalyzing but what I saw was a guy who was going through the motions and at times looked completely disinterested in what was a fairly critical game. Again, at one point while the Kings are down by a goal in the 3rd and on the PP, Brown falls (arguably a dive but whatever - not gonna go there) and sits on the ice looking at the ref for a call when if he would have picked himself up, there was a loose puck in the corner that he had a good chance at retrieving. And this was right at the beginning of his shift. I'm sorry but there is not excuse for that from ANY player at this stage in the season and especially the captain.
Out of everyone last night, his play was making me yell at the TV...lol

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01-27-2011, 01:47 PM
  #32
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Really? ANOTHER Brown thread? Really?

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01-27-2011, 01:51 PM
  #33
Ollie Weeks
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Jesus Christ.

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01-27-2011, 02:46 PM
  #34
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Forget the lazy, uninspired play, let's go with something most of you will understand: Brown has 1 goal in 15 games. 1 in 15. He and Kopitar are out-dueling each other for the most inept first line goal scorer in the league, and you guys are happy with it?

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01-27-2011, 02:58 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
Really? ANOTHER Brown thread? Really?
Yup... and you clicked on it. Thanks for the contribution!

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01-27-2011, 02:59 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
Wherefore actually means why.

Just thought I'd say that.
You are 100% correct.

When Juliet says to Romeo in Shakespeare's play, "Wherefore are thou Romeo?" she's not actually asking where he is, but why he is who he is (in other words, why is Romeo a member of an enemy family that Juliet's family is feuding with, since Juliet turns out to have fallen in love with him).

So I guess the actual question here is: Why is Brown, Brown?

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01-27-2011, 03:15 PM
  #37
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People seems to forget that he is salary is only like 3.2 or something. He isnt paid like a top liner, because he isnt expected to produce like a top liner. He isn't this star sniper, or this perfect playmaker, hence why he doesnt earn 8mill per. He just goes our there and hits everything that moves, agitates, intimidates, draws penalties, aswell as putting up 20 odd goals and 50 points.

There aren't many players who do all that for only 3mill that aren't on ELC's

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01-27-2011, 03:16 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Willard View Post
So I guess the actual question here is: Why is Brown, Brown?
on the first line Terry?

Why?

why He skate on the 3rd line with Clifford and Lewis?

Why Terry?

Why do I have to do this

every game when Jim Fox shows the lines Terry?

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01-27-2011, 04:14 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by sw1tch View Post
People seems to forget that he is salary is only like 3.2 or something. He isnt paid like a top liner, because he isnt expected to produce like a top liner. He isn't this star sniper, or this perfect playmaker, hence why he doesnt earn 8mill per. He just goes our there and hits everything that moves, agitates, intimidates, draws penalties, aswell as putting up 20 odd goals and 50 points.

There aren't many players who do all that for only 3mill that aren't on ELC's
I don't care if he gets paid $500k a year. Sitting on the ice looking at the ref while play is going on and looking for a call is Bush League. He needs to grow a pair. It has nothing to do with points. All those nice things you put about agitating and hitting everything in sight was non-existent yesterday night and it has happened quite frequenlty. Stop confusing effort with points. An encouraging response to a supposed non-call would be to get up off your sorry ass, get the puck and create something. Hell, don't create anything, just win the battle for the puck on the boards and go from there. Instead he sits there like a little boy looking for his dad to yell at the ref for him.

Matt Greene probably has the lowest skill level of all the defensemen on the team yet all you ever see from the guy is hustle. He makes mistakes and takes penalties but you can never question if he is trying. That is what I would like to see from the Captain.

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01-27-2011, 04:15 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
I don't care if he gets paid $500k a year. Sitting on the ice looking at the ref while play is going on and looking for a call is Bush League. He needs to grow a pair. It has nothing to do with points. All those nice things you put about agitating and hitting everything in sight was non-existent yesterday night and it has happened quite frequenlty. Stop confusing effort with points. An encouraging response to a supposed non-call would be to get up off your sorry ass, get the puck and create something. Hell, don't create anything, just win the battle for the puck on the boards and go from there. Instead he sits there like a little boy looking for his dad to yell at the ref for him.

Matt Greene probably has the lowest skill level of all the defensemen on the team yet all you ever see from the guy is hustle. He makes mistakes and takes penalties but you can never question if he is trying. That is what I would like to see from the Captain.

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01-27-2011, 04:17 PM
  #41
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Really? ANOTHER Brown thread? Really?
OH YOU MAD?

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01-27-2011, 04:51 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
I don't care if he gets paid $500k a year. Sitting on the ice looking at the ref while play is going on and looking for a call is Bush League. He needs to grow a pair. It has nothing to do with points. All those nice things you put about agitating and hitting everything in sight was non-existent yesterday night and it has happened quite frequenlty. Stop confusing effort with points. An encouraging response to a supposed non-call would be to get up off your sorry ass, get the puck and create something. Hell, don't create anything, just win the battle for the puck on the boards and go from there. Instead he sits there like a little boy looking for his dad to yell at the ref for him.

Matt Greene probably has the lowest skill level of all the defensemen on the team yet all you ever see from the guy is hustle. He makes mistakes and takes penalties but you can never question if he is trying. That is what I would like to see from the Captain.
This was so noticeable, every person in my area was screaming at him. Add to that the turnovers and dump passes to NO ONE, and it was like he was trying to bring the team down. I dont expect him to a 40 goal scorer, I dont expect him to be flashy, hell, even a 25 - 30 goal expectation might be viewed by some as too high for him (I dont think so, but I could understand that thinking).

But the complete absence of effort and loss of possessions, the lack of hitting and backchecking is just abysmal. AND HE IS THE CAPTAIN. He has to lead by example, and the example he is setting is a poor one at best.

I could honestly see Richardson being far more productive on the first line than Brownie has been. And even if not, at least no one can question Ritchie's effort and hustle shift in and shift out.

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01-27-2011, 07:24 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
This was so noticeable, every person in my area was screaming at him. Add to that the turnovers and dump passes to NO ONE, and it was like he was trying to bring the team down. I dont expect him to a 40 goal scorer, I dont expect him to be flashy, hell, even a 25 - 30 goal expectation might be viewed by some as too high for him (I dont think so, but I could understand that thinking).

But the complete absence of effort and loss of possessions, the lack of hitting and backchecking is just abysmal. AND HE IS THE CAPTAIN. He has to lead by example, and the example he is setting is a poor one at best.

I could honestly see Richardson being far more productive on the first line than Brownie has been. And even if not, at least no one can question Ritchie's effort and hustle shift in and shift out.
I have low expectations for Brown. He's a 2nd line right wing grinder, nothing more.

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01-27-2011, 08:09 PM
  #44
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I have low expectations for Brown. He's a 2nd line right wing grinder, nothing more.
And nothing less, either.

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01-27-2011, 08:11 PM
  #45
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He's Cal Clutterbuck, but with too much faith from the management.

Brown's been handed something from this coach that he didn't earn, and his play suffered. The second he went from agitating young role player with offensive promise to that 1st line , 1st PP unit winger under Murray, he has folded like a cheap tent. He's soft in mind and spirit.

Ask yourself if you have ever seen one player consistently make as many of the same mistakes with the puck, on a shift by shift basis, and never see the wrath of his coach.

He's a great guy, great for the organization, and can be a catalyst when he moves his feet and plays physically. When he tries to play like the dangling diet-Ovechkin, he and the team suffer. The best fit for Brown in LA is as an excellent role player with a good amount of bonus offense, not as a leader or go-to guy.

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01-27-2011, 08:11 PM
  #46
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Hey look, it's this thread again. Everyone was quiet when he was producing. Now that he's in a slump, everyone thinks it's cool to jump on him. Yet Bambi Kopitar gets a free pass.

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01-27-2011, 08:20 PM
  #47
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Hey look, it's this thread again. Everyone was quiet when he was producing. Now that he's in a slump, everyone thinks it's cool to jump on him. Yet Bambi Kopitar gets a free pass.
Most of the same people who use sound reason to knock Brown use the same reasoning to knock Kopitar.

I've been saying the same thing for two years now - Kopitar simply refuses to "own" his line or his team. Yes, he's made some defensive improvements, but he rarely challenges himself - he settles for what's given to him by the defense, and his size and natural skill are just good enough to put up decent numbers. He should be further along than he is right now, but he simply won't demand it of himself.

That "no one has to be great..." comment was more telling than most would admit to themselves. This sort of thing is the very reason why old school NHL scouts are weary of players from non-traditional hockey backgrounds. It's not a question of skill level, its a question of passion and resolve. Does Anze want it bad enough, or will he continue to settle for just good enough?

Both Kopitar and Brown have been complacent and lazy for long stretches of the season, and those stretches sync up with the peaks and valleys in the team's results.

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01-27-2011, 08:30 PM
  #48
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The Kings have too many passengers on the team. The slump wouldn't be as magnified if Brown was generating or creating chances for himself or his line. The radio team of Nick Nickson and Daryl Evans brought this up recently on one of their radio broadcasts by saying that he doesn't look like the same player he was earlier in the season. I think that when the pressure mounts for the team to perform, he goes into a shell. It's not something you'd expect to see from the team captain.

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01-27-2011, 08:52 PM
  #49
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Most of the same people who use sound reason to knock Brown use the same reasoning to knock Kopitar.

I've been saying the same thing for two years now - Kopitar simply refuses to "own" his line or his team. Yes, he's made some defensive improvements, but he rarely challenges himself - he settles for what's given to him by the defense, and his size and natural skill are just good enough to put up decent numbers. He should be further along than he is right now, but he simply won't demand it of himself.

That "no one has to be great..." comment was more telling than most would admit to themselves. This sort of thing is the very reason why old school NHL scouts are weary of players from non-traditional hockey backgrounds. It's not a question of skill level, its a question of passion and resolve. Does Anze want it bad enough, or will he continue to settle for just good enough?

Both Kopitar and Brown have been complacent and lazy for long stretches of the season, and those stretches sync up with the peaks and valleys in the team's results.
I question how far this team can go with both these players existing in their current roles. I'm just about to the point where I believe one of them needs to move on for their own good and for the good of the franchise.

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01-27-2011, 08:56 PM
  #50
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I question how far this team can go with both these players existing in their current roles. I'm just about to the point where I believe one of them needs to move on for their own good and for the good of the franchise.
Kopitar is 12th in the NHL in scoring with 49 points in 50 games and is still only 23. You think the Kings want to move on without him?

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