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Francois Beauchemin to Vancouver

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Old
01-27-2011, 04:07 PM
  #51
last row purple
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
You're ridiculous trolling comments are akin to fans of any other fanbase saying Gaborik shouldn't, can't and won't play.
lolwut. Whos trolling?

Salo shouldnt play. They SHOULD keep him on LTIR until April because he is made of glass. If Vancouver's depth on the blue-line is as amazing as you say, they should be able to hold home-ice advantage for the first round without him.

What in there ^ is anything other than what has been spewed by Nucks fans in this (and the Gunnarsson) thread?

Call it trolling all you want, but Im only spitting back what your own fans have been saying here for 2 hours.

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01-27-2011, 04:10 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by last row purple View Post
lThey SHOULD keep him on LTIR until April because he is made of glass.
Then you'd get a player who played like Sundin early on for the Canucks who took several months to get into shape (and he wasn't coming off an injury - only inactivity).

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01-27-2011, 04:11 PM
  #53
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Well, you're asking 2 distinct questions here. "fairness" has no place in trades, only what makes each team better.

In terms of what it would take to get Beauchemin out of Vancouver, you have to ask yourself what would from Vancouver make the Leafs a better team without Beauchemin. In this case, Kesler would obviously do it. Raymond/Burrows would be close depend on how they might fit opposite Phil Kessel.

If that doesn't work in making Vancouver a better team (it doesn't), that's fine, Toronto has absolutely no need to move Beauchemin.
Perhaps in the real world, but this is HF Boards. As these two teams will never deal with each other anyways, and as Beauchemin does not make Vancouver better fairness is a fair question here.

Raymond/Burrows would be "close"? Burke would trip over himself faxing in a deal for either of those players, stop kidding yourself.

If the Leafs players are that good, why is the team so bad? Every year it's a new scapegoat - last year was Toskala, this year Wilson seems to be the flavour of the month. One day perhaps you'll understand that personnel is a part of the equation.

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01-27-2011, 04:20 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Then you'd get a player who played like Sundin early on for the Canucks who took several months to get into shape (and he wasn't coming off an injury - only inactivity).
according to one of the brilliant minds in these 2 threads, Salo was the best D-Man on the team in last years playoffs. If that was the case, 4 games should be plenty to get him back to that form.

Again, not trolling. Just repeating

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01-27-2011, 04:21 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Perhaps in the real world, but this is HF Boards. As these two teams will never deal with each other anyways, and as Beauchemin does not make Vancouver better fairness is a fair question here.

Raymond/Burrows would be "close"? Burke would trip over himself faxing in a deal for either of those players, stop kidding yourself.

If the Leafs players are that good, why is the team so bad? Every year it's a new scapegoat - last year was Toskala, this year Wilson seems to be the flavour of the month. One day perhaps you'll understand that personnel is a part of the equation.
Well, hfboards discussions should be about what has the possibility to take place in the real world.

Raymond/Burrows really aren't the kind of jaw-dropping players to get a deal done. Burrows production relies heavily on the playmaking ability of the Sedins. Toronto doesn't have enough playmakers. Mason Raymond doesn't have the size we're looking for.

Every player who plays in the NHL is good, the Leafs problem is that the players they have aren't good enough (aswell as the coach). The areas in which the players they have aren't good enough are the top line (Crabb-Bozak) and in goal. If you watched the team, you'd see that. Personnel is absolutely part of the equation, and Toronto isn't good enough, but you don't fix that by moving some of your most valuable players. That's how you get worse.

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Old
01-27-2011, 04:22 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by last row purple View Post
lolwut. Whos trolling?

Salo shouldnt play. They SHOULD keep him on LTIR until April because he is made of glass. If Vancouver's depth on the blue-line is as amazing as you say, they should be able to hold home-ice advantage for the first round without him.

What in there ^ is anything other than what has been spewed by Nucks fans in this (and the Gunnarsson) thread?

Call it trolling all you want, but Im only spitting back what your own fans have been saying here for 2 hours.
So...we should throw him cold to a 6th, 7th or 8th seed team, cold, having not played at all? Brilliant.

Solid or not, Salo, when he is healthy, is a massive upgrade, especially in terms of playoff experience, over anyone that's been mentioned as a replacement within the Canucks organization.

Watch a few games, talk to a few Canucks fans with out trying to piss them off, and maybe you'll get a better feel for what the team should do.

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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Then you'd get a player who played like Sundin early on for the Canucks who took several months to get into shape (and he wasn't coming off an injury - only inactivity).
A comment from someone who has clearly watch the Canucks in the playoffs in the last 2 seasons, in contrast to last row purple.

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01-27-2011, 04:27 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by last row purple View Post
according to one of the brilliant minds in these 2 threads, Salo was the best D-Man on the team in last years playoffs. If that was the case, 4 games should be plenty to get him back to that form.

Again, not trolling. Just repeating
Fair enough, then you don't mind....

Seems like the Blue Jackets aren't going to qualify Anton Stralman - so their asking price should be pretty cheap (far cheaper than Beauchemin). And from your fellow LeafFans, we ignorant Canuckfans were told Stralman > Edler. I suggest we trade for Stralman giving up minor assets in the exchange.

Again, not trolling, just repeating....

You can take any number posts from fans of any team and get similiar responses. What's really the point of that?

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01-27-2011, 04:31 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Raymond/Burrows really aren't the kind of jaw-dropping players to get a deal done. Burrows production relies heavily on the playmaking ability of the Sedins. Toronto doesn't have enough playmakers. Mason Raymond doesn't have the size we're looking for.
Beauchemin, on the other hand...

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01-27-2011, 04:32 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Hugh Whitbread View Post
Beauchemin, on the other hand...
Dropping jaws all over the place, that guy.

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01-27-2011, 04:36 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Fair enough, then you don't mind "turnabout is fair play".

Seems like the Blue Jackets aren't going to qualify Anton Stralman - so their asking price should be pretty cheap (far cheaper than Beauchemin). And from your fellow LeafFans, we ignorant Canuckfans were told Stralman > Edler. I suggest we trade for Stralman giving up minor assets in the exchange.

Again, not trolling, just repeating....
right now Stralman is greater than Edler... He's physically able to play.

Minor assets mean nothing when you WANT TO WIN NOW. Trading piddly crap for a PP D-Man who makes less than $2M this year, is a RFA at seasons end, and most importantly adds depth while your 2 best D are out makes all the sense in the world.

Your team wants to win this year, losing a mid-level prospect means nothing.

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01-27-2011, 04:38 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
1. Vancouver doesn't have the cap space. They'd have to commit to leaving Edler & Salo on LTIR for the remainder of the season.

2. Toronto isn't shopping him, so they won't be accepting rental prices.

3. Vancouver isn't going to part with it's better players.

I disagree that he isn't being shopped. At some point Burke has to make changes. Beauchemin has a year left with a limited no trade clause, I doubt he would refuse a deal to a contender if Nonis went to him...knowing Burke doesn't ask players to waive.

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01-27-2011, 04:39 PM
  #62
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when you say rental prices what do you mean? He wouldn't be a rental? His value will be what we get which could be a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Not going to get much more than that.

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01-27-2011, 04:42 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Bruno Mars View Post
If you guys like him so much than why don't you just keep him? 'cause Vancouver isn't trading you Burrows or Raymond for him, and I doubt any team would give up a similar return.
Ignore him mate. jfried has been inflating Beauchemin's value for months now. Not worth the effort.

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01-27-2011, 04:43 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by last row purple View Post
right now Stralman is greater than Edler... He's physically able to play.

Minor assets mean nothing when you WANT TO WIN NOW. Trading piddly crap for a PP D-Man who makes less than $2M this year, is a RFA at seasons end, and most importantly adds depth while your 2 best D are out makes all the sense in the world.

Your team wants to win this year, losing a mid-level prospect means nothing.
Time to close this thread then isn't it? Why give up more significant assets to get Beauchemin when you can get Stralman for a far cheaper price (and a lower cap hit).

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01-27-2011, 04:43 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by last row purple View Post
right now Stralman is greater than Edler... He's physically able to play.

Minor assets mean nothing when you WANT TO WIN NOW. Trading piddly crap for a PP D-Man who makes less than $2M this year, is a RFA at seasons end, and most importantly adds depth while your 2 best D are out makes all the sense in the world.

Your team wants to win this year, losing a mid-level prospect means nothing.
Our second or third highest rated prospect isn't "piddly crap".

Sarich can be had for much less, costs less, has a ring...all the stuff that might make Beauchemin sellable to the Canucks he beats. Him or Babchuk.

And our depth is fine, just repeating.

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01-27-2011, 04:52 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Hugh Whitbread View Post
Beauchemin, on the other hand...
is a very valuable defenceman for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

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Originally Posted by Stats01 View Post
I disagree that he isn't being shopped. At some point Burke has to make changes. Beauchemin has a year left with a limited no trade clause, I doubt he would refuse a deal to a contender if Nonis went to him...knowing Burke doesn't ask players to waive.
Everyone gets shopped on a 26th place team. Burke has to make changes, but those changes have to come in the form of acquiring a player for our top line. If one isn't being acquired, no change will be made.

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when you say rental prices what do you mean? He wouldn't be a rental? His value will be what we get which could be a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Not going to get much more than that.
Rental prices refer to picks/prospects which Toronto is not pursuing. They are pursuing players for the top line, preferably with size. If the best offer for Beauchemin is a 2nd rounder, he simply won't be traded. For some reason, people fail to understand this very basic concept:

If you want player X from team Y, you offer a package that makes team Y better without player X. If you're not prepared to do that, then team Y will not trade palyer X.

For Toronto to be better without their top pairing defenceman, they need a guy to play on the top line opposite Phil Kessel.

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01-27-2011, 04:59 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
is a very valuable defenceman for the Toronto Maple Leafs.
When your team's "very valuable" player has 1 goal on the whole season while also leading his already incompetent team in turn-overs, you might want to re-consider "very valuable" on an objective scale.

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01-27-2011, 05:01 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Hugh Whitbread View Post
When your team's "very valuable" player has 1 goal on the whole season while also leading his already incompetent team in turn-overs, you might want to re-consider "very valuable" on an objective scale.
He's leading the team in turnovers because he plays the most minutes and unlike Phaneuf, actually tries to move the puck. The fact that he leads the league in turnovers is simply an indication of how poorly Toronto supports the puck, having 3 defencemen in the league's top 5 in this department.

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01-27-2011, 05:01 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Hugh Whitbread View Post
When your team's "very valuable" player has 1 goal on the whole season while also leading his already incompetent team in turn-overs, you might want to re-consider "very valuable" on an objective scale.
And how long can someone claim that stats like that are due to playing on a bad team, and throw out the thought that because many players are playing like that is what is making the team preform poorly?

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01-27-2011, 05:02 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
And how long can someone claim that stats like that are due to playing on a bad team, and throw out the thought that because many players are playing like that is what is making the team preform poorly?
I'm all for improving the forwards and getting bigger up front. One of the objectives for Toronto is to reduce turnovers, you don't do that by moving Francois Beauchemin only to put a guy who would have more turnovers in his place.

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01-27-2011, 05:03 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Hugh Whitbread View Post
When your team's "very valuable" player has 1 goal on the whole season while also leading his already incompetent team in turn-overs, you might want to re-consider "very valuable" on an objective scale.
He's a fine top 4 D-man.

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01-27-2011, 05:03 PM
  #72
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I highly doubt it would take our best players to acquire Beauchemin.
Now you've done it....you just had to get him going with another discussion that no one agrees with

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01-27-2011, 05:06 PM
  #73
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Now you've done it....you just had to get him going with another discussion that no one agrees with
I apologies for my actions? I really didn't expect it to unfold like this.

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01-27-2011, 05:07 PM
  #74
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He's a fine top 4 D-man.
So who isn't a fine top 4 d-man on the Leafs? Kaberle? Phaneuf? Schenn? Komisarek?

It's really remarkable how Toronto's extended collection of fine top-4 d-men combine to form one of the worst defences in the league.

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01-27-2011, 05:11 PM
  #75
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I'm all for improving the forwards and getting bigger up front. One of the objectives for Toronto is to reduce turnovers, you don't do that by moving Francois Beauchemin only to put a guy who would have more turnovers in his place.
Then allow me to put it another way, how are the coaching staff and management not held accountable? If it's a team philosophy or coaching decisions, how are Burke/Nonis/Wilson still employed? The line between it being the fault of a player, the fault of all players, and the fault of management and coaching staff seems to get blurred a little, and if I were a Leafs fan I'd be pissed with the teams recent history.

Beauch has at least some talent, but claiming it's all the team that Beauchemin isn't preforming well doesn't fly.

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