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Old
01-27-2011, 08:31 PM
  #276
DIEHARD the King fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scramble91 View Post
I do agree that unless dean has a whopper of a trade for a legit top 6 player, I'm all on board with waiting for the kids. Are the rest of the kings fans willing to wait another 2-3 years before we really become legit contenders?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
What a loaded question. People will want it now, even if there are no materials (players) available now to fix it. I am fine with waiting for Loktionov and Moller to mature. They both deserve their shot as does Parse. It's the right way to do things. The only deal I see as a real possibility would be trading from our strength (yound defensemen) to a team that has what we might need in a young AHL'er that might be ready to step into a top six role in one or two seasons.

It's going to hurt if we can't get Williams re-signed.
OK, dont come back with the same tired response of "what else is there".

But now, objectively, you can see how the 5 year plan is getting stretched into the 8-10 year plan. Its not like those of us who have been LONGTIME fans are jumping ship (what else is there -- I didnt say I couldn't use it) but the whole filling in the boxes on DL's chart and being a Stanley Cup contender in 5 years is just the load of BS that DL was selling back then, and most of us bought it. Now, realizing that it cant ever have been true, we have to continue paying on the load we bought into so as not to throw value away.

I am not saying he hasnt improved the team and built for the future, but the timeframe sold, and yes I know some of you think the first several years dont really count, was pure BS (or we just took it too literally -- 5 means 8, like no means yes). But if there is little to pick up via UFA and DL is now on record saying trades in the cap era arent that useful (go back and listen to the NHL LIVE interview), we really are stuck waiting until the youngsters, very young youngsters, progress and that adds another three years minimum to the plan.

No matter how you slice it, 8 years is a long loooooong rebuild.

I guess the waiting is the hardest part.

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Old
01-27-2011, 08:36 PM
  #277
RAZZIE King
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Now if we can just talk some unsuspecting sucker to take 44DD and Harrold off our hands...

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Old
01-27-2011, 09:03 PM
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
OK, dont come back with the same tired response of "what else is there".

But now, objectively, you can see how the 5 year plan is getting stretched into the 8-10 year plan. Its not like those of us who have been LONGTIME fans are jumping ship (what else is there -- I didnt say I couldn't use it) but the whole filling in the boxes on DL's chart and being a Stanley Cup contender in 5 years is just the load of BS that DL was selling back then, and most of us bought it. Now, realizing that it cant ever have been true, we have to continue paying on the load we bought into so as not to throw value away.

I am not saying he hasnt improved the team and built for the future, but the timeframe sold, and yes I know some of you think the first several years dont really count, was pure BS (or we just took it too literally -- 5 means 8, like no means yes). But if there is little to pick up via UFA and DL is now on record saying trades in the cap era arent that useful (go back and listen to the NHL LIVE interview), we really are stuck waiting until the youngsters, very young youngsters, progress and that adds another three years minimum to the plan.

No matter how you slice it, 8 years is a long loooooong rebuild.

I guess the waiting is the hardest part.
Ok, as long as people don't sit there screaming "Do something!" just for the sake of making a trade.

I think after every season you have to look at where the team needs to improve and the best options available for improvement.

No matter how you slice it, if/when they finally get to be cup contenders no one will care how long it took to get to that position and more importantly stay in that position for many years.

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Old
01-27-2011, 09:10 PM
  #279
etherialone
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Wait, I thought that Marco Sturm was the answer to the DO SOMEtHING!! screams?

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Old
01-27-2011, 09:13 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Wait, I thought that Marco Sturm was the answer to the DO SOMEtHING!! screams?
i think you were the only one that thought Sturm was the answer.

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Old
01-27-2011, 09:16 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Wait, I thought that Marco Sturm was the answer to the DO SOMEtHING!! screams?
He did do something... he wound up back on IR where most of us thought he would be sooner than later.

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Old
01-27-2011, 09:17 PM
  #282
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Yes sir, and I was right.

Question, who should we not make a trade to try and get after his completely terrible injury history and the recurrence of those same injuries? TG answered..... Marco Sturm!!!

Winner!

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Old
01-27-2011, 09:21 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Yes sir, and I was right.

Question, who should we not make a trade to try and get after his completely terrible injury history and the recurrence of those same injuries? TG answered..... Marco Sturm!!!

Winner!
It was worth the risk. Oh wait, what did the Kings risk? Oh, that's right NOTHING.

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Old
01-27-2011, 09:25 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Wait, I thought that Marco Sturm was the answer to the DO SOMEtHING!! screams?
When people say "do something" they mean get a superstar and don't give up anything. Otherwise you are a crappy GM and should be fired because all the other teams do stuff like this all the time.

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Old
01-27-2011, 09:47 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Wait, I thought that Marco Sturm was the answer to the DO SOMEtHING!! screams?
Low risk, mid reward move. Very Dean. The odds were heavily against it. Unless Lombardi is adept at lying to himself, I don't believe he for a second thought Sturm would fill the top 6 need. Two major knee surgeries in three seasons...you could have set your watch to this and I did...which reminds me, JDM still owes me a beer.

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Old
01-27-2011, 10:33 PM
  #286
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It irritates me a little bit that Matt Moulson is a 30 goal scorer now earning $3 million plus a season, even though he didn't work out in LA, still stings, especially since he is a left winger. I am still holding out for a deadline deal for Penner >.< C'mon Deano...

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Old
01-27-2011, 10:36 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
It irritates me a little bit that Matt Moulson is a 30 goal scorer now earning $3 million plus a season, even though he didn't work out in LA, still stings, especially since he is a left winger. I am still holding out for a deadline deal for Penner >.< C'mon Deano...
It's gonna cost you. If I were Edmonton I would be asking for Martinez and Clifford.

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Old
01-27-2011, 11:19 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
It's gonna cost you. If I were Edmonton I would be asking for Martinez and Clifford.
I would do that deal without batting an eye. I love both Clifford and Martinez, but Penner is a 30 goal scoring signed left winger in his prime. If the Oilers are willing to take that package, you have to take it, no question.

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Old
01-27-2011, 11:22 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
I would do that deal without batting an eye. I love both Clifford and Martinez, but Penner is a 30 goal scoring signed left winger in his prime. If the Oilers are willing to take that package, you have to take it, no question.
Simmonds and voynov plus a second does it?

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Old
01-27-2011, 11:29 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
OK, dont come back with the same tired response of "what else is there".

But now, objectively, you can see how the 5 year plan is getting stretched into the 8-10 year plan. Its not like those of us who have been LONGTIME fans are jumping ship (what else is there -- I didnt say I couldn't use it) but the whole filling in the boxes on DL's chart and being a Stanley Cup contender in 5 years is just the load of BS that DL was selling back then, and most of us bought it. Now, realizing that it cant ever have been true, we have to continue paying on the load we bought into so as not to throw value away.

I am not saying he hasnt improved the team and built for the future, but the timeframe sold, and yes I know some of you think the first several years dont really count, was pure BS (or we just took it too literally -- 5 means 8, like no means yes). But if there is little to pick up via UFA and DL is now on record saying trades in the cap era arent that useful (go back and listen to the NHL LIVE interview), we really are stuck waiting until the youngsters, very young youngsters, progress and that adds another three years minimum to the plan.

No matter how you slice it, 8 years is a long loooooong rebuild.

I guess the waiting is the hardest part.
I think you set a clock to his statement, that DL's 5th year working with the Kings, would be the 5th year in that his rebuild would end etc, which is completely wrong, as he didn't actually START re-building, until his 2nd or 3rd year with LA, you do remember McCauley, Calder, Preissing, etc, all the bridge players that were brought in to keep "competitive" etc, I believe the 2007 draft was the actual beginning of the rebuild and you can see what was taken shape after that,

2007 - Hickey, Moller, Simmonds, Martinez

2008 - Doughty, Teubert, Voynov, Lotkionov, Cambpell

2009 - Schenn, Clifford, Vey, Deslauriers, Kolomatis, Kozun

2010 - Forbort, Toffoli, Weal, Kitsyn,

It's been 4 years that he has actually been building the team, so yea, I believe your timeline is just a bit off of center there...

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Old
01-27-2011, 11:32 PM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zad View Post
Simmonds and voynov plus a second does it?
Isn't that more costly than Clifford + Martinez? Either way, that would likely do it, I would have to think that the Oilers jump at getting that deal from LA, and I would likely give in to that deal as well.

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Old
01-27-2011, 11:42 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Isn't that more costly than Clifford + Martinez? Either way, that would likely do it, I would have to think that the Oilers jump at getting that deal from LA, and I would likely give in to that deal as well.
It may or may not be. Depends on how you view the flexibility in the cap space provided by giving up Simmonds instead of Clifford. Lombardi would have to seriously consider either deal though, but Penner had better be the real deal on the 1st line if a deal like that happens.

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Old
01-27-2011, 11:42 PM
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
I would do that deal without batting an eye. I love both Clifford and Martinez, but Penner is a 30 goal scoring signed left winger in his prime. If the Oilers are willing to take that package, you have to take it, no question.
Penner has scored 30 goals once in his career.

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Old
01-27-2011, 11:46 PM
  #294
KINGS17
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Penner has scored 30 goals once in his career.
There are no guarantees with Penner, but it might be the kind of deal Dean is forced to make.

I still think he would prefer to bide his time and maybe deal one of our solid AHL defensemen that is ready to move up for someone else's solid AHL LW that is ready to make the jump.

I am sure Lombardi has already considered this though and when he looked around the AHL trying to determine the best LW available he may have concluded it's Loktionov.

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Old
01-27-2011, 11:47 PM
  #295
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Lombardi said it best, you are doing your job right if 2 of your draft picks in any one draft make it to the NHL....in that regard, he has succeeded.

It does irritate me Moulson has scored all those goals...it also irritates me Boyle scored his 18th the other night and Purcell is having a good year.

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Old
01-28-2011, 12:05 AM
  #296
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The Kings are a team that is lacking in toughness throughout the lineup outside of a handful of players. I'd be reluctant to give up either one of Simmonds or Clifford. They need those types in the lineup, especially when the playoffs come around.

Penner has one year remaining on his contract, and the Oilers are already full of promising, young, talented forwards. They are lacking size, and Penner is one of their bigger forwards, and one of the few that is producing. However, they do need help defensively and don't have many promising shutdown defensemen coming up.

If they are going to offer up a package, I'd look at a trade structured similarly to the Horton trade between Florida and Boston. Boston sent Dennis Wideman, a 1st (15th) and a 3rd to Florida in exchange for Horton and Greg Campbell.

Or look at the Andrew Ladd trade that cost Atlanta a promising young defenseman in Ivan Vishnevsky and a 2nd round pick. I think Penner falls into the same category as Ladd and Horton, big wingers who are capable of scoring.

With that premise in mind, I'd offer up Edmonton a choice of their defenseman in Manchester (which will come down to Voynov, Hickey or Teubert), a 1st round pick in 2011 and a 2nd in 2012.

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Old
01-28-2011, 12:21 AM
  #297
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Seems most of the league is looking for some 30 goal help. Its going to cost something extra to acquire one. Not many sellers out there either.

Only option is to develop your own. Or in the Kings case, stop throwing them out in the trash!

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Old
01-28-2011, 12:22 AM
  #298
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Maybe we are getting desperate here. thatīs an overpayment for Penner. just take a look at trades around the league since 2005.

one of the biggest:

Hossa + Dupuis

for

Colby Armstrong, Erik Christensen, Angelo Esposito and a 1st.

breaking this down:

dupuis = Christensen

so Hossa for Armstrong + Esposito + 1st.

Simmonds = Armstrong,
Esposito + a 1st > Voynov (there were a lot of question marks about Esposito and it was a supposed to be a really late first) thatīs almost even.

and Hossa is WAY BETTER tha Penner

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Old
01-28-2011, 12:28 AM
  #299
Zad
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Knowing Dean, he may pick up Matt Walker off waivers. He comes with a Flyers' resume.

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Old
01-28-2011, 12:30 AM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The Kings are a team that is lacking in toughness throughout the lineup outside of a handful of players. I'd be reluctant to give up either one of Simmonds or Clifford. They need those types in the lineup, especially when the playoffs come around.

Penner has one year remaining on his contract, and the Oilers are already full of promising, young, talented forwards. They are lacking size, and Penner is one of their bigger forwards, and one of the few that is producing. However, they do need help defensively and don't have many promising shutdown defensemen coming up.

If they are going to offer up a package, I'd look at a trade structured similarly to the Horton trade between Florida and Boston. Boston sent Dennis Wideman, a 1st (15th) and a 3rd to Florida in exchange for Horton and Greg Campbell.

Or look at the Andrew Ladd trade that cost Atlanta a promising young defenseman in Ivan Vishnevsky and a 2nd round pick. I think Penner falls into the same category as Ladd and Horton, big wingers who are capable of scoring.

With that premise in mind, I'd offer up Edmonton a choice of their defenseman in Manchester (which will come down to Voynov, Hickey or Teubert), a 1st round pick in 2011 and a 2nd in 2012.
I like this proposal. If itīs to give more than this I rather have Booth.

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